Hi Guys, Trust U having a wonderful Sallah holiday. Over d past few years, 3D in Nigeria has taken a new dimension. and I‘ld say d last 8mths or so has seen some exponential growth in this “About to fly industry“. Now, Its occured to Me that there will come a time for Uniformity in remunerations, so that We all have a sense of what to expect as regards payment for jobs done.
Should it b measured in Hours? Days? per Output? or just lump it up as we are used to in Nigeria.
Recently, I‘ve had to talk to some Artists and They All keep attaching different costs to their jobs and its so difficult to derive a basis of comparism. I know there is no amount too much to b paid for Art works but in a work scenerio, there should b a means for measurements at least for sake of fairness between d parties involved.
Alright. I Humbly await your honest responses on the matter.
Barka de Sallah.

the way they do it is per hr professionally in a project...per output is decided by the clients. the clients go for quality jobs. so the clients decided how he wants the job to look like even in cases of low budget projects. I all go for per hr coz if I am an employer it all be favorable too...I all pay my workers per hr...lol...come late if u like....lol....then as an employee, u know ,the faster u re the better...that's my opinion
now in the case where the clients wants a kind of quality stuff...u ll know how tedious it ll be, then u can charge based on that..but if your employer wants it to be like this and u can't do it like that....u re in trouble...lol...

@Peter, copy that. But even if its per hour, how much is a 3D artist worth in Naira per Hour?
Secondly, What do you think the salary scale of a 3D artist in Nigeria should be? and maybe obtainable. thanks in advance.

yeah...that is the point where quality now speaks ''how much''
but a regular 3d artist should not earn less than a 100k in a month...3d artist not motion graphics artist.
naija is so terrible...over there they earn nothing less than $15 per hour. anyway

$15 per hour? I taught it was $45 minimum. I once read an article, where 3D artists in Disney earn a minimum of $50k annually, and thats for freshers. The once high up in the cadre earn as much as $80k and above depending on job designation. Anyways, Things will get better hopefully and wages will improve.

guys, theres really no fixed wage and in my opinion, ratifying art is impractical.
unlike other disciplines, two 3d artists doin the same job will come out with uniquely different output based on their individual skill levels.
3d artists r paid for their skills....that unique individuality they bring to d job, not just for getting the job done.
and evaluating skill is highly subjective. d value is determined by d studio/client(s) perceived value of d skill.

the mundane jobs r filled by interns, and their rates vary with studios or d project budgets...in cases they r happy to forgo pay for d opportunity to work n learn from the greats.

we don't have enuf professionals for pay to b an issue, I think we shd work on improving our content and output first of all, truth be told, most of our best efforts wouldn't even get us internship positions in d good studios (self included)

demand creates value/worth...high quality/relevance creates demand, so we have to create high quality product, then the laws of commerce will kick in, only then will dis talk bcome relevant. d laws of self survival will sabotage any collective decision as regards rates until d industry becomes relevant n visible.

these r my tots.

let us look at it this way...
there is a minimum pay,and that minimum is set based on some factors. one of which is that your skill level should reach a certain level before u can be employable as a 3d artist in a particular specialty let alone getting a contract for an advert or so. ...we should not take it as a hard rule but its a requirement .even currently most studio houses will test your skill level first,its a competitive market nobody will wanna do something substandard. my point is there should be a minimum pay. that is what most unions do to protect a particular profession...as an example, walk into a barbers shop,as an adult after having a haircut u will 150 if not 200 naira. that's what their union did....
so em...hope u get the point. there should be a more minimum pay.

@peter

well said, n i get ur point.
these r still my tots tho...
if ur talking minimum wage generally, it differs country to country, n its set by govt. but if ur talking minimum wage to pay particular professionals in a sector of d labour market (especially d art industry) different dynamics come into play.

i believe every capable artist should earn enough to survive on from their labour, but i believe that the value of their earning power should be proportional to d skill of d particular person in question.

yes, there shd b minimum qualifications for employability, but in nigeria if we followed dat, half of our 'experts' shd still b in training.

and dats still my point, d industry is too disorganised, young and mediocre for standardization of pay structure...not until a predictable level of professionalism and excellence in output can b guaranteed.

@Okx, Well said. U started well but the first half and probably more, applies more to the people abroad. while d sabotage thing APPLIES to us here.
I think Reezer has more valid points or should i say base points. Although, there isnt any CG presence here thus Clients and Studios are sceptical about deployment of resources to this area.
Yes, Yes, Yes there should b minimum pay for 3D Artists seeking to work anywhere. but how much should be Minimum Pay? I know for Engrs and Accountants and some others, Matter of fact they dont have Min pay, it rises and falls as d employer can afford. 3D is different cuz its Art and I agree, but how much is it really Worth.

OKX: @peter

well said, n i get ur point.
these r still my tots tho...
if ur talking minimum wage generally, it differs country to country, n its set by govt. but if ur talking minimum wage to pay particular professionals in a sector of d labour market (especially d art industry) different dynamics come into play.

i believe every capable artist should earn enough to survive on from their labour, but i believe that the value of their earning power should be proportional to d skill of d particular person in question.

yes, there shd b minimum qualifications for employability, but in nigeria if we followed dat, half of our 'experts' shd still b in training.

and dats still my point, d industry is too disorganised, young and mediocre for standardization of pay structure...not until a predictable level of professionalism and excellence in output can b guaranteed.

My Bad. I think We posted at same time. I TOTALLY agree with this one. But then again I think We are not far off. @least, We should b able to do small gragra with India. Some months back, A guy posted something about studying 3D in India, and I checked out there reels, very colourful and everything but nothing particularly special about d animations save for one car reel in there. But since You mentioned output which is Very good also, Again What Output should b sufficient or equated to a Day‘s job.
Thanks guys keep it coming and where are other 3D Artists on this forum. Make your contributions, cuz People are Reading this

@reid
lol... u dnt start in d middle.
if theres to b minimum rates or schedule for evaluating skill, will there also b rules determining or ensuring clients increase their budgets appropriately?

dis is d private sector bro, provide a relevant service at good quality n ur value appreciates.

budgets differ for different projects (for various reasons), so naturally will renumerations.

unions enforce uniform payments, true, but to do dat they often 'fight' clients, eliminating alternatives and crippling competition. u cannot unionize a fledgling industry dat is already being largely ignored and is under-developed.

i still think d way forward is to become so relevant in d industry that d threat of inactivity carries some weight. presently, it doesnt...we r still battling to prove we can deliver similar or superior jobs as our foreign counterparts.
when we have made dat point, then we can start battling for wot we think we r worth.

again, my tots.

Again, we on thesame page. Now If I get U right... U r saying bcuz 3D has no ground here yet, U can b paid anything? That the Client or employer decides what U r to b paid cuz the platform for it here has not been established?? That You as an Artist have to prove Ur mettle to or comparable to Ur foreign counterparts before U can b paid well
Also, Pls what do U think should be an Artist‘s output for a day‘s job and volume of work.

@reid
lol
of course u know that's not wot I mean.

simply put, when 3d artists can produce a predictable level of output CONSISTENTLY all d time, then and only then, can they tag any kind of fixed price to it.

every newbie in d industry knows d pay structure of d big atudios employing our couterparts abroad, but most, if not all of us lack d same ability to deliver the expected output that those studios expect.

until then, I assess my artists n pay them based on my perception of their value and wot d project budget can accommodate.

rate of output is project specific, I dnt know any studio dat has fixed expectations, but almost all projects run d deadline/crunch time race.

@Okx, Alright. Duely noted. Its good we have this conversations from time to time for the enablement of a level playing field between Artists and Clients. But just like U said, RELEVANCE & CONSISTENCY comes first & I agree a 100%.
However, it seems like U r shying away from giving any answers or clues to EXPECTED daily work output per 3D Artists.

Uuuummmm. Where is Reezer?

@reid
no, I'm not shying away. I tot id addressed dat particular question.
differnt projects have different production pipeline schedules n timelines, again depending on various factors like:

project planning style
preference/work style of the art director
client specification
estimated release date or completion time
volume of other pending projects......the list goes on

no two projects r totally alike, so its difficult to set fixed output.
I hav been on projects where 1minute of blocked animation was my daily target, others where I had a week to create a xter.

its determined by d producers taking various factors into account.

@Reid
I m still here...sorry
em....let me read the posts from where I stopped.

@Reid
I m still here...sorry
em....let me read the posts from where I stopped.
there is really a lot to talk about
please ignore the post made by franklysco...thats is supposed to be me

PeterReezer: @Reid
I m still here...sorry
em....let me read the posts from where I stopped.
there is really a lot to talk about
please ignore the post made by franklysco...thats is supposed to be me

Yes Boss. And eeerrr, U where supposed to show me something. U‘ve forgoten already.

@reid
yeah...I will show u...let me fix my internet properly...em...to your inbox right?...
em...I've read the post...em. Reid and okx let's do it this way
- who re the clients and what do these clients expect from us 3d animators
- now, can we give them what they want to their expectations.
- if yes. now let's discuss payment.
those re the three important things that comes first..now if the clients says "this is what I can pay you..." and u say "no...this is what I will accept"
let's take for example...an advert or a commercial . when u say ''I will accept 600k for it'' and the client says ''no can only pay 450k''...u go away and another animator comes in and tells the clients ''...I will accept 500k minimum"...if 3 to 4 person tells the clients nothing less than 500k consecutively... the client will re think. and will now start to see the quality of the market.
compare this scenario to when an animator comes in and tells the client ''I can do it for jus t 300 k...'' at that point, even if the quality of this animator is not up to the first 2, the client might want to manage it that way....base line he got the job done for less than he expected and the first 2 good animators didn't get the job.
....u grab the point?
so....u have all the skills in the world...but somebody somewhere is not making u eat properly...lol...
those re my thoughts and experience...there re exceptional cases
there re cases where the client can afford more to get the best but if the difference in the pay is not much

@peter
I get d point, but truth is there r several strategy to break into d market.
check dis...
I have a studio wit a staff strength of 20, I have fixed monthly overhead whether I get jobs or not...
if a client walks in offering to pay less than id normally charge for a job, id ask myself 'can I afford to do it at d price he's willing to pay?'
as long as it is not a financial loss, n I can accommodate it in my workforce...I take it on.

there r different variables to consider.
I may already have assets dat simplify d job dat d nxt studio doesn't.
if by unionizing I lose d job altogether, is there a welfare scheme or compensation dat the union guarantees its members monthly.
d cost of goods n services wil always vary based on diff factors, but d bottomline is, poverty n an uncertain future will cause me to do all I can not to lose any job dat walks in my door.

u can only call a persons bluff when ur d most convenient alternative, we haven't attained dat status yet.
one of my best paying clients today had his first job wit me done totally free of charge- just to prove dat I could do it n get his business.

again, being art, outputs will differ as will quality..hence cost.

OK...let me equate the ''union'' to ''quality''...fine
in that your story....I wanna make an instance....what if u charged a little above what u charged the client, just to gain his confidence...maybe by now he will see the minimum he can pay as the new charge...this is just an example oh.
now let's take our mind back a few years....how was the music industry before...how was our music video looked like in those days of daddy showkey and baba fryo ....compare that to when clarence peter (capital dreams) came and changed the whole scene. his price was really high when he started. now its as if what he did changed the industry and somehow created a minimum. Nobody can shoot a music video for anything less than 200 to 300k.
hope u get the point...by that time if anybody would have charged way lesser than minimum....the pay will still go down. so its not as if they created a fixed minimum...the minimum created itself from quality...that's why I totally agree with your last sentence.
u really need to see the ''way'' some studios re looking for animators....''...we need a freelance animator...that we can pay 35k a month'' I don't wanna mention names here.but when I heard that.....men....that is madness. u can imagine what led to that. anyway....u get the point?

This is some REAL ADULT TALK, and who else can deliver this Jaw droppers without popping their lids than These Two Super Duppa Star Animators. Awesome!
Well, My thoughts are viz, I always attach value to myself but ensure that I get d job done @ same time. So it means, YES i can, but this is what i want or nothing. But then again, I dont have a studio with a staff strength of Twenty but I have a lil family to take care of and so “I understand what Okx is talking about“.
My point is, while I agree Strongly with Peter, from an Artiste point of view especially with the Clarence example, I also see these things from Okx‘s Bussiness perspective. But I Also know, That when U CLEARLY BECOME THE BEST AT WHAT U DO, competition wont matter anymore. then the real Value sets in because Clients and Audience sees this, identifies with it, understands that this is how its supposed to b done and are all ready to get exactly that quality of job for themselves not looking @ d cost attached to it “like Clarence“ for instance. But like Okx mentioned ealier again, Relevance and Presence plays an important role. So I think their is a way around it or heirachy if U may, With Presence and Relevance at d top of the food chain basically, then everyother thing following. But Like My Mentor and Part Driving Force Bill Gates, I do this for the Love of it. Its only natural for money to tag along later.
So with a lot of Yes and Nooos, bottom line for Me is, If an Artiste really knows his Onions, A 100k is Chicken feed, even for the now.
Then again, this are my thoughts.

Then Again, Somebody has to start from Somewhere before standing up for something.

well said guys, i daresay theres a lot to digest, n i think our general positions r clear.

maybe different perspectives from other contributors will help.

goodtalk

@peter
yup. i get u, n largely agree...my basic mindset is based on d dynamic nature of market/business/different personal challenges.

my closing statement is... a group of artists can only have a uniform minimum charge for a service if they face uniform n similar challenges/xpenses/xperience/costs/growth plans etc.... d list is endless.

so yes, it is possible, maybe even beneficial to some, but remember, an importer/ wholesaler can always afford to sell goods at a lower rate than the end retailer.

An established business may offer price slashes dat a startup may not be able to afford to do.

if my xperience/ assets enables me shoot 3 videos simultaneously (for example), minimise costs/ logistics, optimise my existing workforce n hence charge clients half of wot my peers do, u may argue that im ruining ur business...i may counter dat im reaping d benefits of my present growth/ stability n past sacrifices.

So, is it fair?
Am i hurting d industry?
Well, i guess dats wot dis talk is all about.

Cheers

@reid
just reacting to a comment u made.

from a financial point, being best at wot u do is not as important as being best at SELLING wot u do.

Its a common mistake artists make.
We have to learn to balance our talents because it is possible to be an excellent animator but be out-of-work constantly.

Dats where agents and agencies r meant to come in n protect everyones interests, but in dis part of d world...they r more of a rip off in my xperience.

Id rather b an average animator that is constantly working cos i'm able to sell my meagre skills, than an awesome animator that has to drive a cab to survive...lol, but dats just me.

hmmmm
OK...one day a magic will happen...lol

OKX: @reid
just reacting to a comment u made.

from a financial point, being best at wot u do is not as important as being best at SELLING wot u do.

Its a common mistake artists make.
We have to learn to balance our talents because it is possible to be an excellent animator but be out-of-work constantly.

Dats where agents and agencies r meant to come in n protect everyones interests, but in dis part of d world...they r more of a rip off in my xperience.

Id rather b an average animator that is constantly working cos i'm able to sell my meagre skills, than an awesome animator that has to drive a cab to survive...lol, but dats just me.

Really I'll pretend I didnt see that. An AVerage to a An Awesome Animator Lolz. U gat me crackin a rib right there. Well, I like been the Best at what i do cuz thats so Me. i dont like the back seat, dont get Me wrong, I'm a very Good team player, but i luv the awesome stuffs. you know, been the Best.Lolz, Yeah. I dont like driving cabs either, but I dont wanna b average.
This is how I see it. Everytime a season and everything its Market. There are Bentleys, Rolls, BMWs, Mercs etc. there still is the Mimi and Keke Marwa too. People will go for what they can afford. Its a trade off, Quality and U pay more or Less quality and pay less. I agree with the agent thing too but that wont deter Me either. I like Awesome and I wanna be Awesome.

@Reid
I feel u joo...leave okx ...okx don't wanna be the best, he wants to be an average...lol
don't take it hard...
don't mind me..I understand what u mean.
its just gonna be challenging when someone elsewhere takes a big jump among the struggling ones and they will feel that pressure of not competing with him anymore coz they feel he is far gone....unfortunately that's what most us tell ourselves when we watch foreign blockbuster movies...any way.

lol....funny
its kool tho, y'all go ahead n b d best (while ignoring biz sense)...dat way I'll pay n hire ur broke (but awesome) butts to do d grind while I'm playing golf with Beyonce.

mi familia hail me when they see my work, but they hail me louder wen they see food...lol

Lolz. @Okx, Thats not gon happen trust Me unless ofcuz U can pay 1.5M amongst other things. eeeerrr monthly I mean. Thats Awesome, Right?

yeah...I feel u...u gonna pay 1.5M per f*cking week men....lol
once u can do that. u got no problem...lol