benalvino:

more BS from you... first you said this


when i said you are still calling them angel as their nature or describing them as angels then you change it to this

^^notice the single quote and how it made your statement look...
then you said this to justify why you change angel to messenger in that post


now since angels = messenger i agree from the get go... but now am asking this
when i say "messenger" what i my referring to?
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

and all you can come up with is this crap


[size=18pt]funny thing is that i reply before and after the change.... can you try to be a sincere person?[/size]

i notified you before, LOGIC WONT GO check if again i deliberately did that the same way you bolded Angel in mine post, ok

bernimoore: OH, THAT LOGIC WONT GO, since Angel=messenger,

and because it was my post, im allowed to present my point as i want grin grin grin grin im removing Angel since it means messenger 'in quote'

benalvino:

hahaha... you left the question i ask you then bring up something that you are trying to force problem on... let me help you again

aggelos translate an angel, messenger
short definition an angel, a messenger

now since you say angel = messenger no problem with that...
^^[size=18pt] why is aggelos translate an angel and messenger at the same time?[/size]
[size=18pt]why not just angel as we know that angel means messenger or why not just messenger as we know that messenger means angel?[/size]

[size=14pt]for your imformation,

Aggelos does NOT translate an angel and messenger at the same time? IT WAS FORCEFULL according to your kindergerten dictionary[/size]

see the real trusted historian wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel#cite_note-5
http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/
http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/

(1)Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, [/b]deriving from the homonym word [size=18pt]“aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger.[/size]

(2)[size=18pt]Today, [/size][b]the same word is used as a noun, referring to the angel.


can you see the difference, from onset it was used only for messenger

and today, later for 'spirit sons of God' who were later called as angel, supernatural in form,nature by default.


you hideout Exposed!

BERNIMOORE:

i notified you before, LOGIC WONT GO check if again i deliberately did that the same way you bolded Angel in mine post, ok

and you remove angel and put messenger Abi?
now am asking you this
when i say "messenger" what i my referring to?
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

you still haven't answered...
the bible is a key to understand this which i have explained for you instead of you to grasp you refuse and try to mine for errors so you can be glorified that you contradict me which is the soul reason you came to nairaland... but it seems its you that is doing the contradiction...

malawk translates messenger and not angel... but messenger means angel.
Why is it that when the bible is talking about the spirits thats minister for God in heaven why does the bible always translate ANGEL in the old testament instead of MESSENGER? remember malawk is translated to messenger and not angel... and also remember that the word angel is derived from aggelos not malawk...

So why the OT translate malawk as Angel for the spirits and Malawk as messenger for men like Abraham?

BERNIMOORE:

[size=14pt]for your imformation,

Aggelos does NOT translate an angel and messenger at the same time? IT WAS FORCEFULL according to your kindergerten dictionary[/size]

see the real trusted historian wikipediahttp://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/

(1)Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, [/b]deriving from the homonym word [size=18pt]“aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger.[/size]

(2)[size=18pt]Today, [/size][b]the same word is used as a noun, referring to the angel.


can you see the difference, from onset it was used only for messenger

and today, later for 'spirit sons of God' who were later called as angel, supernatural in form,nature by default.


you hideout Exposed!

i never used dictionary for this... you were the one using wikipedia let me show you...

aggelos: an angel, messenger
Original Word: ἄγγελος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aggelos
Phonetic Spelling: (ang'-el-os)
Short Definition: an angel, messenger
Definition: a messenger, generally a (supernatural) messenger from God, an angel, conveying news or behests from God to men.

http://biblesuite.com/greek/32.htm

the above is from strong... that is where i have been getting my translation...

[size=18pt]and my question still left unanswered [/size]

it is funny how you are showing your ignorance and you think you are exposing me... lol am not here for that. it is always your motive... I know you must have host a party because you expose olaagbedu or so... even if you expose me it means nothing to me... try remove your mind there... am not even competing with you... if you are competing i will say you won... It is a walkover

benalvino:

and you remove angel and put messenger Abi?
now am asking you this
when i say "messenger" what i my referring to?
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

you still haven't answered...
the bible is a key to understand this which i have explained for you instead of you to grasp you refuse and try to mine for errors so you can be glorified that you contradict me which is the soul reason you came to nairaland... but it seems its you that is doing the contradiction...

malawk translates messenger and not angel... but messenger means angel.
Why is it that when the bible is talking about the spirits thats minister for God in heaven why does the bible always translate ANGEL in the old testament instead of MESSENGER? remember malawk is translated to messenger and not angel... and also remember that the word angel is derived from aggelos not malawk...

So why the OT translate malawk as Angel for the spirits and Malawk as messenger for men like Abraham?

[size=18pt]Agellos translates directly to 'messenger' and then FULL STOP, primary meaning, see it below;[/size]

http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/
[size=18pt]Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, deriving from the homonym word “aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger.[/size]

BERNIMOORE:

[size=18pt]Agellos translates directly to 'messenger' and then FULL STOP, primary meaning, see it below;[/size]

http://www.greek-names.info/aggelos-or-angelos/
[size=18pt]Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, deriving from the homonym word “aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger.[/size]

my brother use strong i beg you... ok leave strong.

lets analyze yours...

Aggelos or Angelos is a popular male Greek name, deriving from the homonym word “aggelos” which in ancient Greek was referring to the messenger. [size=18pt]Today[/size], the same word is used as a noun, referring to the [size=18pt]angel[/size]

lets remove all the place you see angel in the bible and replace it with messenger... Jesus is not an angel as you claim he is a messenger
Yahweh created messengers in heaven.... we have arch messenger michael
we have elijah Abraham etc
the question still comes When am talking about messenger Aggelos what am i referring to
a: spirits (...)
b: humans (elijah)
c: animals(dog, pigeon)
d: human spirit(dead humans)

this is from same wikipedia you checked... funny thing is instead of you to post the article you post the reference link which takes to greek name...
see wiki below and read what it says.

The word angel in English is a fusion of the Old English/Germanic word engel (with a hard g) and the Old French angele. Both derive from the Latin angelus which in turn is the romanization of the ancient Greek ἄγγελος (ángelos), "messenger", "envoy",[6] which is related to the Greek verb ἀγγέλλω (angéllō), meaning "bear a message, announce, bring news of" etc.[7] The earliest form of the word is the Mycenaean a-ke-ro attested in Linear B syllabic script.[8][9]
Judaism
Main article: Angels in Judaism

The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (mal’āk̠ ’ĕlōhîm; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (mal’āk̠ YHWH; messenger of the Lord), בני אלהים (bənē Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; sons of God) and הקודשים (haqqôd̠əšîm; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels. Later texts use other terms, such as העליונים (hā‘elyônîm; the upper ones).

The term מלאך (mal’āk̠) is also used in the Tanakh; a similar term, ملائكة (malā’ikah), is used in the Qur'an. The Greek and Hebrew words, depending [size=18pt]on the context[/size] may refer either to a human messenger or a supernatural messenger. The human messenger could possibly be a prophet or priest, such as Malachi, "my messenger", and the Greek superscription that the Book of Malachi was written "by the hand of his messenger" ἀγγήλου angḗlou. Examples of a supernatural messenger[10] are the "Malak YHWH," who is either a messenger from God,[11] an aspect of God (such as the Logos),[12] or God himself as the messenger (the "theophanic angel."[10][13]

Scholar Michael D. Coogan notes that it is only in the late books that the terms "come to mean the benevolent semidivine beings familiar from later mythology and art."[14] Daniel is the first biblical figure to refer to individual angels by name,[15] mentioning Gabriel (God's primary messenger) in Daniel 9:21 and Michael (the holy fighter) in Daniel 10:13. These angels are part of Daniel's apocalyptic visions and are an important part of all apocalyptic literature.[14] Coogan explains the development of this concept of angels: "In the postexilic period, [size=18pt]with the development of explicit monotheism, these divine beings—the 'sons of God' who were members of the Divine Council— were in effect demoted to what are now known as 'angels', understood as beings created by God, but immortal and thus superior to humans[/size]."[14] This conception of angels is best understood in contrast to demons and is often thought to be "influenced by the ancient Persian religious tradition of Zoroastrianism, which viewed the world as a battleground between forces of good and forces of evil, between light and darkness."[14] One of these is hāšāṭān, a figure depicted in (among other places) the Book of Job.

Philo of Alexandria identifies the angel with the Logos as far as the angel is the immaterial voice of God. The angel is something different than God Himself, but is conceived as God's instrument.[16]

^^^ this above has proven what i was saying that an angel is a word use to describe the spirits you know what i mean...
that is why strong translate aggelos as an angel and messenger

benalvino:

i never used dictionary for this... you were the one using wikipedia let me show you...

http://biblesuite.com/greek/32.htm

the above is from strong... that is where i have been getting my translation...

[size=18pt]and my question still left unanswered [/size]

it is funny how you are showing your ignorance and you think you are exposing me... lol am not here for that. it is always your motive... I know you must have host a party because you expose olaagbedu or so... even if you expose me it means nothing to me... try remove your mind there... am not even competing with you... if you are competing i will say you won... It is a walkover

you see, stop fanning sentiments ok, and face the issue. whats your business with ola? if he sends you GO BACK AND TELL HIM YOU CANT! Do you know derorogatory words ola has said about frosbel? , on NL? , NOW YOU HAVE PITY FOR OLA BECAUSE HE IS A TRINITARIAN AND THE WAY HE WAS SHUTTED OUT ON THE OTHER THREAD.


you want to invite BIDAM to join you by calling me all sorts of name, i laugh he replied you that he just peeped! no wahala, as a gentleman he was neutral, and since nobody is joining you now cant you leave them out of this and lets concentrate?

ok

maybe we have a break now, let me attend some people .i will join later

and thanks for your time.

BERNIMOORE:

you see, stop fanning sentiments ok, and face the issue. whats your business with ola? if he sends you GO BACK AND TELL HIM YOU CANT! Do you know derorogatory words ola has said about frosbel? , on NL? , NOW YOU HAVE PITY FOR OLA BECAUSE HE IS A TRINITARIAN AND THE WAY HE WAS SHUTTED OUT ON THE OTHER THREAD.


you want to invite BIDAM to join you by calling me all sorts of name, i laugh he replied you that he just peeped! no wahala, as a gentleman he was neutral, and since nobody is joining you now cant you leave them out of this and lets concentrate?

ok

maybe we have a break now, let me attend some people .i will join later

and thanks for your time.

I have no business with him. i dont know him. All i know is that you are here to make people feel bad. and you were happy maybe ola felt that way or not... but like i said am not that kind of person...

its your time that likes making people feel bad over the internet causing them to commit suicide...

I am only saying you cant go into debate without looking for something to brag about... without looking for pride. you treat it as a competition....

I ask people to come see cause yesterday you show your self for who you truly are. I know your motive... and you as BARRISTER soon your next character will surface... I wonder what ID you will use

[size=18pt]so many unanswered question up there... why cant you answer them?[/size]

benalvino: this is from same wikipedia you checked... funny thing is instead of you to post the article you post the reference link which takes to greek name...
see wiki below and read what it says.



^^^ this above has proven what i was saying that an angel is a word use to describe the spirits you know what i mean...
that is why strong translate aggelos as an angel and messenger

i dont need any explanation, you said that agellos translate 'at the same time' as angel and messenger

but look at the first line there in bold, agellos [/b]the next primary meaning [b]'messenger'

the strong dic. cannot manufacture their own meaning, they relied on the greek meanings

ok,

Agelliki a greek word translates what?

i will join you later, let me concentrate now in the office, later pls!

benalvino:

I have no business with him. i dont know him. All i know is that you are here to make people feel bad. and you were happy maybe ola felt that way or not... but like i said am not that kind of person...

its your time that likes making people feel bad over the internet causing them to commit suicide...

I am only saying you cant go into debate without looking for something to brag about... without looking for pride. you treat it as a competition....

I ask people to come see cause yesterday you show your self for who you truly are. I know your motive... and you as BARRISTER soon your next character will surface... I wonder what ID you will use

[size=18pt]so many unanswered question up there... why cant you answer them?[/size]

thank you for speculating barrister as me, i told you it is libelous, wait till i get your true person,and i will put my counsel on alert, you will receive A WRIT OF SUMMONS inviting you to a court, for damages, i hope you start preparing your defences now.

signed out, but will be back.

BERNIMOORE:

thank you for speculating barrister as me, i told you it is libelous, wait till i get your true person,and i will put my counsel on alert, you will receive A WRIT OF SUMMONS inviting you to a court, for damages, i hope you start preparing your defences now.

See how it is... a guy BARRISTER goes by the name lawyer...
Then a GUY BERNIMOORE is claiming he has counsel on alert...
This is a very weak threat not even a crime not a single damage done. lets forget this for now.

BERNIMOORE:

i dont need any explanation, you said that agellos translate 'at the same time' as angel and messenger

but look at the first line there in bold, agellos [/b]the next primary meaning [b]'messenger'

the strong dic. cannot manufacture their own meaning, they relied on the greek meanings

ok,

Agelliki a greek word translates what?

i will join you later, let me concentrate now in the office, later pls!

Now this is a shame because it boils me that you cant understand simple thing.

the Word angel is derived from aggelos you get the point
so in the greek aggelos means messenger
in the bible aggelos means an angel and a messenger. the angel part is a word that is derived from aggelos.
when the bible is talking about those spirit it uses angel meaning messengers and when talking about humans it uses messenger.

i have been saying this all day long that is why i said why do you think strong translate aggellos as an angel and messenger?

so now am asking you...
when i come and say aggelos which means messenger... what am i referring to.

a: human(aggelos)
b:the spirits(aggelos)
c: animals like pigeon and dogs (aggelos)

you have refused to answer this...

Hahahaha some one is being destroyed here. I can't stop laughing especially on page 4 and 5.
When breeze blow fowl yansh go open

Now this is a shame because it boils me that you cant understand simple thing.

the Word angel is derived from aggelos you get the point
so in the greek aggelos means messenger
in the bible aggelos means an angel and a messenger. the angel part is a word that is derived from aggelos.
when the bible is talking about those spirit it uses angel meaning messengers and when talking about humans it uses messenger.

i have been saying this all day long that is why i said why do you think strong translate aggellos as an angel and messenger?

you keep that shame, nothing warrants it

Did i say that i rely on strong lexicon? answer me,

[size=14pt]i told you that since strong as you put it rely on the greek meaning, which translates Agellos directly as 'messenger'

im done with that

maybe i hold on the greek wikipedia meaning of Agellos,

while you hold on the strong, because you were present with the strong group of theologians

we are devided here on 'the direct greek meaning' and let it be![/size]


i just signed in now to check mails and see that just, because i signed out to attend to something, you want to use that opportunity to sound silly

you see now, your aim was not genuine, why will i hesitate to reply you?

you went so low to join issues with someone that im sure is here to support you? which does not bother me in anyway, it happened on the 'firsborn thread' and you were tired, you and itsfact repeating the same thing on that thread, not a new thing,
someone to join you and insult and not contribute?,after Bidam refuse to join you,

anyway you claim that i make you feel bad and others so thats why you fan sentiment? if we start the insult thing, nobody will get anything on this page, that is your aim to derail an argument by going round and round, but i have tagged your denials

My aim is clear, if you want insult, im there, and if you want sanity im there.

back to business;

one thing you dont know is that we are devided on this issue and maybe we should entertain some comment from others, tell your friend too if he can make a meaninfull contribution,

thats why the way i will put the your question below which i have earlier answered that 'it was my post' you still want me to be you,

ok what you mean by messenger, i dont know? and hence below;

so now am asking you...
when i come and say aggelos which means messenger... what am i referring to.

a: human(aggelos)
b:the spirits(aggelos)
c: animals like pigeon and dogs (aggelos)

a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

while b, supernatural spirit/form by default(first) before the task as a 'messenger' is what you are reffering to , [size=14pt]are you done[/size], or you want to insult? oya now

BERNIMOORE:



you keep that shame, nothing warrants it

Did i say that i rely on strong lexicon? answer me,

[size=14pt]i told you that since strong as you put it rely on the greek meaning, which translates Agellos directly as 'messenger'

im done with that

maybe i hold on the greek wikipedia meaning of Agellos,

while you hold on the strong, because you were present with the strong group of theologians

we are devided here on 'the direct greek meaning' and let it be![/size]


i just signed in now to check mails and see that just, because i signed out to attend to something, you want to use that opportunity to sound silly

you see now, your aim was not genuine, why will i hesitate to reply you?

you went so low to join issues with someone that im sure is here to support you? which does not bother me in anyway, it happened on the 'firsborn thread' and you were tired, you and itsfact repeating the same thing on that thread, not a new thing,
someone to join you and insult and not contribute?,after Bidam refuse to join you,

anyway you claim that i make you feel bad and others so thats why you fan sentiment? if we start the insult thing, nobody will get anything on this page, that is your aim to derail an argument by going round and round, but i have tagged your denials

My aim is clear, if you want insult, im there, and if you want sanity im there.

back to business;

one thing you dont know is that we are devided on this issue and maybe we should entertain some comment from others, tell your friend too if he can make a meaninfull contribution,

thats why the way i will put the your question below which i have earlier answered that 'it was my post' you still want me to be you,

ok what you mean by messenger, i dont know? and hence below;




a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

while b, supernatural spirit/form by default(first) before the task as a 'messenger' is what you are reffering to , [size=14pt]are you done[/size], or you want to insult? oya now

But our bible was not translated from wikipedia... the guys who work on the translation put on a transparent mechanism so we can see what they did... lol

Ok we should start using wikipedia like the one that still shoots you by saying how aggelos is used same way i have been saying.

Now you are talking about low... when someone says debate like a teaching you will not agree... you will debate like it is a competition to make someone else looks stupid.

a and c are from the same substance but not the same nature.
humans are like animals but not the same as animals... how are they like animals? they were both from same substance and share flesh, bone and blood... but they are different, that is why we are humans and they are animals.

Am not done...
there is nothing like supernatural in greek so you have not answered my question
so
when i say messenger who am i referring to
a: humans including human spirit
b: spirits in heaven
c: animals
and because you made this statememt
a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

should i add
d: God
because according to you a and c are same nature flesh so we can also conclude that angels and God are same nature supernatural spirit? lol is that what we should conclude?

I ask a simple question what am i referring to you are jumping up and donw... let me narrow the answers now.
when i say messenger what am i referring to
a: humans/animals
b:the spirits

below is the Wiki version you posted, that according to you, shot me on the leg,

but kindly read the bolded, you will see that, it was 'sons of God' was even the preffered first translation of AGELLOS, second prefered was 'holy ones' before it was later that the concept of angel as messengers was intruduced.

this is from same wikipedia you checked... funny thing is instead of you to post the article you post the reference link which takes to greek name...
see wiki below and read what it says.

[size=18pt]
The word angel in English is a fusion of the Old English/Germanic word engel (with a hard g) and the Old French angele. Both derive from the Latin angelus which in turn is the romanization of the ancient[b] Greek ἄγγελος (ángelos), "messenger", "envoy",[6] which is related to the Greek verb ἀγγέλλω (angéllō), meaning "bear a message, announce, bring news of" etc.[/b][7] The earliest form of the word is the Mycenaean a-ke-ro attested in Linear B syllabic script.[8][9]
Judaism
Main article: Angels in Judaism
The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (mal’āk̠ ’ĕlōhîm; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (mal’āk̠ YHWH; messenger of the Lord), בני אלהים (bənē Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; sons of God) and הקודשים (haqqôd̠əšîm; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels [/size]Later texts use other terms, such as העליונים (hā‘elyônîm; the upper ones).

The term מלאך (mal’āk̠) is also used in the Tanakh; a similar term, ملائكة (malā’ikah), is used in the Qur'an. The Greek and Hebrew words, depending on the context may refer either to a human messenger or a supernatural messenger. The human messenger could possibly be a prophet or priest, such as Malachi, "my messenger", and the Greek superscription that the Book of Malachi was written "by the hand of his messenger" ἀγγήλου angḗlou. Examples of a supernatural messenger[10] are the "Malak YHWH," who is either a messenger from God,[11] an aspect of God (such as the Logos),[12] or God himself as the messenger (the "theophanic angel."wink[10][13]

Scholar Michael D. Coogan notes that it is only in the late books that the terms "come to mean the benevolent semidivine beings familiar from later mythology and art."[14] Daniel is the first biblical figure to refer to individual angels by name,[15] mentioning Gabriel (God's primary messenger) in Daniel 9:21 and Michael (the holy fighter) in Daniel 10:13. These angels are part of Daniel's apocalyptic visions and are an important part of all apocalyptic literature.[14] [size=18pt]Coogan explains the development of this concept of angels: "In the postexilic period, with the development of explicit monotheism, these divine beings—the 'sons of God' who were members of the Divine Council— were in effect demoted to what are now known as 'angels', understood as beings created by God, but immortal and thus superior to humans."[/size][14] This conception of angels is best understood in contrast to demons and is often thought to be "influenced by the ancient Persian religious tradition of Zoroastrianism, which viewed the world as a battleground between forces of good and forces of evil, between light and darkness."[14] One of these is hāšāṭān, a figure depicted in (among other places) the Book of Job.

Philo of Alexandria identifies the angel with the Logos as far as the angel is the immaterial voice of God. The angel is something different than God Himself, but is conceived as God's instrument.[16]

BERNIMOORE: below is the Wiki version you posted, that according to you, shot me on the leg,

but kindly read the bolded, you will see that, it was 'sons of God' was even the preffered first translation of AGELLOS, second prefered was 'holy ones' before it was later that the concept of angel as messengers was intruduced.




[size=18pt]
The word angel in English is a fusion of the Old English/Germanic word engel (with a hard g) and the Old French angele. Both derive from the Latin angelus which in turn is the romanization of the ancient Greek ἄγγελος (ángelos), "messenger", "envoy",[6] which is related to the Greek verb ἀγγέλλω (angéllō), meaning "bear a message, announce, bring news of" etc.[7] The earliest form of the word is the Mycenaean a-ke-ro attested in Linear B syllabic script.[8][9]
Judaism
Main article: Angels in Judaism
The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (mal’āk̠ ’ĕlōhîm; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (mal’āk̠ YHWH; messenger of the Lord), בני אלהים (bənē Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; sons of God) and הקודשים (haqqôd̠əšîm; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels [/size]Later texts use other terms, such as העליונים (hā‘elyônîm; the upper ones).

The term מלאך (mal’āk̠) is also used in the Tanakh; a similar term, ملائكة (malā’ikah), is used in the Qur'an. The Greek and Hebrew words, depending on the context may refer either to a human messenger or a supernatural messenger. The human messenger could possibly be a prophet or priest, such as Malachi, "my messenger", and the Greek superscription that the Book of Malachi was written "by the hand of his messenger" ἀγγήλου angḗlou. Examples of a supernatural messenger[10] are the "Malak YHWH," who is either a messenger from God,[11] an aspect of God (such as the Logos),[12] or God himself as the messenger (the "theophanic angel."wink[10][13]

Scholar Michael D. Coogan notes that it is only in the late books that the terms "come to mean the benevolent semidivine beings familiar from later mythology and art."[14] Daniel is the first biblical figure to refer to individual angels by name,[15] mentioning Gabriel (God's primary messenger) in Daniel 9:21 and Michael (the holy fighter) in Daniel 10:13. These angels are part of Daniel's apocalyptic visions and are an important part of all apocalyptic literature.[14] [size=18pt]Coogan explains the development of this concept of angels: "In the postexilic period, with the development of explicit monotheism, these divine beings—the 'sons of God' who were members of the Divine Council— were in effect demoted to what are now known as 'angels', understood as beings created by God, but immortal and thus superior to humans."[/size][14] This conception of angels is best understood in contrast to demons and is often thought to be "influenced by the ancient Persian religious tradition of Zoroastrianism, which viewed the world as a battleground between forces of good and forces of evil, between light and darkness."[14] One of these is hāšāṭān, a figure depicted in (among other places) the Book of Job.

Philo of Alexandria identifies the angel with the Logos as far as the angel is the immaterial voice of God. The angel is something different than God Himself, but is conceived as God's instrument.[16]

after all the post you still come to the this question

when i say messenger who am i referring to
a: humans including human spirit
b: spirits in heaven
c: animals
and because you made this statememt
a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

should i add
d: God
because according to you a and c are same nature flesh so we can also conclude that angels and God are same nature supernatural spirit? lol is that what we should conclude?

I ask a simple question what am i referring to you are jumping up and donw... let me narrow the answers now.
when i say messenger what am i referring to
a: humans/animals
b:the spirits

one thing is to prove, and back it with evidence, another is for you to bluntly reject, which is a fundamental right you have, i cant force you ok?

again a, and c are same(according to the bible) you may reject it, but see it again before you claim that i have not replied it


Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

[size=14pt]"sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” [/size]19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: [size=14pt]as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals[/size], for all is vanity. 20 [size=18pt]All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. [/size]21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

what further evidence do you need to show a and c better? exept willful rejection, ok?

BERNIMOORE: one thing is to prove, and back it with evidence, another is for you to bluntly reject, which is a fundamental right you have, i cant force you ok?

again a, and c are same(according to the bible) you may reject it, but see it again before you claim that i have not replied it


Ecclesiastes 3:18-21

[size=14pt]"sons of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like animals.” [/size]19 For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing befalls them: [size=14pt]as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man has no advantage over animals[/size], for all is vanity. 20 [size=18pt]All go to one place: all are from the dust, and all return to dust. [/size]21 Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

what further evidence do you need to show a and c better? exept willful rejection, ok?

so is it same to call the animals sons of men? like and same are two different thing.... you can be like them in certain areas but you are not them....

"[size=18pt]man[/size] has no advantage over [size=18pt]animals[/size]" two different class of creature... one is called animal and the other is called man or human...

the point the verse is making is that man shall die like animals... we are alike in that sense...

[size=18pt]can you agree that you cant answer my question?[/size]

benalvino:

after all the post you still come to the this question

when i say messenger who am i referring to
a: humans including human spirit
b: spirits in heaven
c: animals
and because you made this statememt
a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

should i add
d: God
because according to you a and c are same nature flesh so we can also conclude that angels and God are same nature supernatural spirit? lol is that what we should conclude?

I ask a simple question what am i referring to you are jumping up and donw... let me narrow the answers now.
when i say messenger what am i referring to
a: humans/animals
b:the spirits

b and d too, are the same spirit supernatural form/nature, you ADMITTED that earlier, below;

benalvino:
...then you went on to say angels are supernatural spirit in form/nature [size=18pt]exactly what i have been saying[/size]... then you say their task messenger is not a nature... like i said before their task is to serve God and Humans... i never said messenger is their nature...

you admit God is also a supernanural spirit form

so,
[size=14pt]
b and d are same

that alone NULLIFIES WHAT YOU TERMED AS 'FORM OR NATURE OF ANGELS' you are still reffering to the supernanural spirit form they shared with God, so, nothing like 'FORM OR NATURE OF ANGELS' outside their spirit form.[/size]

they are sons of God in spirit supernatural form by default including lucifer UNTIL INNiquity was found in him. before he lured other sons of God, who later rebelled and became demons,

genesis put it as 'sons of God' who left their position.

benalvino:

so is it same to call the animals sons of men? like and same are two different thing.... you can be like them in certain areas but you are not them....

"[size=18pt]man[/size] has no advantage over [size=18pt]animals[/size]" two different class of creature... one is called animal and the other is called man or human...

the point the verse is making is that man shall die like animals... we are alike in that sense...

[size=18pt]can you agree that you cant answer my question?[/size]

i have answered, but your rigidity cant be satisfied even with bible, because trinity concept has been ingrained in you.

[size=18pt]yes,why not, animal can be called sons of men, are you and i not classified as mammals? stop attaching emotions and open your eye[/size],

yes, because they are both made from dust and dust they return, their breath of life return to where Adam came from(inexistence) as air return to God.

they

benalvino:

after all the post you still come to the this question

when i say messenger who am i referring to
a: humans including human spirit
b: spirits in heaven
c: animals
and because you made this statememt
a and c, are of same nature/form as flesh, you did not answer my post using book of ecclsts.

should i add
d: God
because according to you a and c are same nature flesh so we can also conclude that angels and God are same nature supernatural spirit? lol is that what we should conclude?

I ask a simple question what am i referring to you are jumping up and donw... let me narrow the answers now.
when i say messenger what am i referring to
a: humans/animals
b:the spirits

[size=14pt]if i have to narrow it the way you put it,its same

you are reffering to 'spirit sons of God' who are in supernatural nature/form like God[/size]

are you ok with this?

list questions on this issue of angel(not arch angel yet) that i have not answered

dont come here with insult

have i answered, or have you rejected my answer? you have just one choice

BERNIMOORE:

b and d too, are the same spirit supernatural form/nature, you ADMITTED that earlier, below;



you admit God is also a supernanural spirit form

so,
[size=14pt]
b and d are same

that alone NULLIFIES WHAT YOU TERMED AS 'FORM OR NATURE OF ANGELS' you are still reffering to the supernanural spirit form they shared with God, so, nothing like 'FORM OR NATURE OF ANGELS' outside their spirit form.[/size]

they are sons of God in spirit supernatural form by default including lucifer UNTIL INNiquity was found in him. before he lured other sons of God, who later rebelled and became demons,

genesis put it as 'sons of God' who left their position.

hmmmm ok. i agree with you that angels are spirits...

you will agree with me that God is spirit...

you will agree with me that we have spirit...

so are you saying that because we are all spirit we are the same?

you said humans are made of flesh like animals...

but yet we have animal as a class of creatures with flesh
and humans as a class of creatures with flesh...

Since this is the case

are you saying God is an angel like Gabriel?

because the flesh of fish is not even the same as humans and the flesh of lion is not the same as the flesh of cat yet they are all describe as flesh.

so in animals cat is different from lion yet they are animals...

can you say the same with spirits?

We have God as a spirit that if any angel see they will die

we have angels as spirit that are inferior to God

we have human spirit that is inferior to the angels...

so what is your point?

are you saying God(YAHWEH) is an angel?

the question is not answered yet... because when i say messenger you cant tell if am talking about angels or humans...

you have failed so bad...

you always say jesus is an angel talk about it alot... Now you are trying to prove that the word angel is not good enough that english formed it.

BERNIMOORE:

[size=14pt]if i have to narrow it the way you put it,its same

you are reffering to 'spirit sons of God' who are in supernatural nature/form like God[/size]

are you ok with this?

list questions on this issue of angel(not arch angel yet) that i have not answered

the simple truth is you couldn't answer the question...
they are like human spirit too... that doesnt make them humans...
they are like God but that doesnt make them God... you can be like something to an extent... but it doesnt make you that thing.

computer monitor is like tv... but it is not TV.

coke is like pepsi but it is not pepsi... they share a common name spirit just like dogs and cat share a common name animal but they are not same...

you are a being, angels are being, God is being... but we are not same... simple as that.

ok let me make it so simple...
when i say messenger am i talking about
a: man
b: spirit in heaven(sons of God)

[quote author=benalvino]

hmmmm ok. i agree with you that angels are spirits...

you will agree with me that God is spirit...

yes

you will agree with me that we have spirit...

sorry what is translated 'spirit' is originally 'breathe' so replace it with breath(check the hebrew word RU'ACH) and see the translation.

so are you saying that because we are all spirit we are the same?

'breathe' is different from supernatural spirit form, ok?

you said humans are made of flesh like animals...

but yet we have animal as a class of creatures with flesh
and humans as a class of creatures with flesh...

no it was the bible that said it, and i showed you, yet you fought the bible
Since this is the case

are you saying God is an angel like Gabriel?

No, they are both supernatural by default in form, but the 'sons of God' as they are first known are tasked to be messengers to God.

because the flesh of fish is not even the same as humans and the flesh of lion is not the same as the flesh of cat yet they are all describe as flesh.

so in animals cat is different from lion yet they are animals...

all, above breathe, can you deny that? that is their nature/form 'ru'ach' say it with me now; humans, animals, cat, or lion they all BREATHE(ru'ach) recite it now

can you say the same with spirits?

We have God as a spirit that if any angel see they will die

lie! big time lie

jesus himself testifies;

proof

Matthew 18:10


10[b] “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones,[/b] [size=18pt]for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.
[/size]

we have human spirit that is inferior to the angels...

we have angels as spirit that are inferior to God

we have 'human breathe' ru'ach(hebrew

so what is your point?

are you saying God(YAHWEH) is an angel?

No, they are both supernaturalby default in form , but the 'sons of God' as they are first known are tasked to be messengers to God.

the question is not answered yet... because when i say messenger you cant tell if am talking about angels or humans...

you have failed so bad...

as you can see, i cant bend your mind

even the bible cant

you always say jesus is an angel talk about it alot... Now you are trying to prove that the word angel is not good enough that english formed it.

its not me, it was the wiki historians that colude with the greek and hebrew translators

ok, forgive me for that.



jesus was a 'messenger of covenant' in OT,

your questions were cheap!

benalvino:

any one reading this is seeing you for who you are snake that is... I ask a simple question for how many hours and you wont answer it so that your confusion will stop.

here is the question
we are called humans
[size=18pt]the spirit or host in heaven created by God what are they called?[/size]

till you answer it bye bye.

BERNIMOORE: you knew that supernatural spirits are 'a nature/form' but[b] you DELIBERATELY NOT ADDED 'form/nature' to supernatural spirits, leaving the statement 'open for twist'[/b] i saw it,

we are called humans, NOT WITHOUT REASON BUT BECAUSE OUR NATURE/FORM IS HUMAN/FLESH by default

Angels heavenly creatures are supernatural spirit form/nature by default , called 'sons of God' their task 'messenger' is NOT a nature but task

(Benimoor no vex o for that ^)



Those created by God in heaven are called 'spirit sons' of God.

This sons also do the work of messenger to the father, hence they are called 'angels' .

No one have a/the nature of a 'messenger', or is there any one that you know ?

Even human 'messengers' are by nature 'human' then, they can do the work of a messenger, same with spirit creatures of God. Their nature cannot be 'messenger'(angel) No !

But all messengers Are angels, and all faithful spirit sons of God are humble to the father and do his messages and hence are called angels.

Same with faithful human servant of God, they do messenger work for God also and hence angel.

Saying that angel is a nature, is saying there are humans that are created messengers by nature and same with the heavenly sons of God.

BERNIMOORE: lie! big time lie

jesus himself testifies;

proof

Matthew 18:10


10[b] “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones,[/b] for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Ok... no dispute here... the bible normally says any one who sees God will die... So since you showed me a verse i haven't seen i have no problem... Now i know that angels sees him. also some men testify to have seen him but lets leave this... I have no problem with it...

BERNIMOORE: we have angels as spirit that are inferior to God

we have 'human breathe' ru'ach(hebrew

the above is wrong... see the strong from genesis 2:7
neshamah: breath
Original Word: נְשָׁמָה
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: neshamah
Phonetic Spelling: (nesh-aw-maw')
Short Definition: breath
and in Greek pneuma. The words mean “strong wind, blast or inspiration.

so lets compare the function of the human spirit to angels
It is the human spirit that gives us a consciousness of self and other remarkable, though limited, “God-like” qualities. The human spirit includes our intellect, emotions, fears, passions, and creativity. It is this spirit that provides us the unique ability to comprehend and understand
Job 32:8, But it is the spirit in man, the breath of the Almighty, that makes him understand.
verse 18 For I am full of words; the spirit within me constrains me.
the spirit is not seen and it governs man’s mental and emotional existence. Paul said, “Who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him?”
1 Corinthians 2:11 (ESV)
11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

Every human being has a spirit, and it is distinct from the “spirit,” or life, of animals. God made man differently from the animals in that He created us “in the image of God” (Genesis 1:26-27). Therefore, man is able to think, feel, love, design, create, and enjoy music, humor, and art. And it is because of the human spirit that we have a “free will” that no other creature on earth has.


for the angels
Angels spiritual beings who have intelligence, emotions, and will. This is true of both the good and evil angels (demons)
Luke 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,


your definition for human spirit is faulty
when you say man's spirit means breath, like i point in Gen 2:7 now 2 Th 2:8, does it mean this every time it is used in the Bible?
"power over unclean breath" a bottle of listerine? Mt 10:1
"breath refreshed" a candy mint? 2 Cor 7:13
"troubled in breath" asthma? Jn 13:21
"Meek and quiet breath" Didn't snore? 1 Pet 3:4
"They thought they had seen a breath" vapour in very cold weather? Lk 24:37
"Father into thy hands I commit my breath" cupped in His hands for 3 days? Lk 23:46

can we also say Spirit can refer to material things like wind-Jn 3:8
Vine: pneuma (pneuma) primarily denote the wind also breath; then especially the spirit, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.
Spirit or wind is a "word picture" for the non-material part of man and the essence of God
Spirit can refer to the sum of all character qualities:
Spirit of fear: 2 Ti 1:7
Patience of spirit vs. haughtiness of spirit: Eccl 7:8
Meek and quiet spirit: 1 Pe 3:4
Spirit of gentleness: 1 Cor 4:21
Fervent in spirit: Acts 18:25
the spirit is willing: Mt 26:41
stand fast in one spirit (purpose): Phil 1:27
his spirit stirred (motivated) within in; Acts 17:16
In the spirit (character) of Elijah: Lk 1:17

Spirit can refer to intelligent conscious being apart from the physical body: Lk 24:39
God is a spirit: Jn 4:24
Jesus committed His Spirit into God's hands: Lk 23:46
The Holy Spirit is a "He" not an "It": Jn 16:12-14
Angels are spirits: Heb 1:14
Demons are spirits: Lk 4:33; Eph 6:12
Man has a spirit: Acts 7:59 (man is created in spiritual image of God, not physical image

2 Corinthians 4:16-18
King James Version (KJV)
16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day

Matthew 26:41
King James Version (KJV)
41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Romans 7:22
King James Version (KJV)
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

BERNIMOORE: No, they are both supernaturalby default in form , but the 'sons of God' as they are first known are tasked to be messengers to God.

you have already said angel is use to describe them... like i said humans is use to describe us... you know when people say human nature? One can easily say angelic nature...
Now humans are bones and flesh... you can say it is our nature if you which animals too are bones and flesh... But they are called animals not humans... i believe you understand this... but you are someone who will never admit something. that is why you have refuse to answer my question.

BERNIMOORE: as you can see, i cant bend your mind grin grin grineven the bible cant

say you cant answer the question...
ok if i say [size=18pt]supernatural spirit[/size] who am i referring to?
a: YAHWEH
b: the sons of God
oya tell me?
you see how the problem are still coming on you?

BERNIMOORE: its not me, it was the wiki historians that colude with the greek and hebrew translators
ok, forgive me for that.
jesus was a 'messenger of covenant' in OT,
your questions were cheap!

if you know your source is not in agreement with you why present it?
so now you are saying that those 2 bibles that translate it angel which you said was the correct translation is wrong? in malachi?

in addition to the post above

BERNIMOORE: sorry what is translated 'spirit' is originally 'breathe' so replace it with breath(check the hebrew word RU'ACH) and see the translation.

does this make sense?
Hebrews 1:14 (ESV)
14 Are they not all ministering [size=18pt]breath[/size] sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

see strong's concordance below

pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Short Definition: wind, breath, spirit
Definition: wind, breath, spirit.

this is the mistake you are making with Angel and messenger and you want to make it again...

when i say breath am i talking about
a: the breath in heaven
b: breath in me
answer o...

BERNIMOORE: 'breathe' is different from supernatural spirit form, ok?

I have always told you our spirit and angels are not the same...
when you say Breath is different from spirit form are you not comparing apple and oranges?

BERNIMOORE: no it was the bible that said it, and i showed you, yet you fought the bible
Since this is the case

^^^ makes me hahahahaahahaaha