@ frosbel

Honestly there is nothing we haven't pointed out to you concerning this issue... for long now you have not stood in any specific ground concerning the preexistence of Jesus... you keep changing ground.
let me see what ground you will stand this time for yet another preexistence debate

@ op, its not all you read ,all you hear that you can believe.you need to make a research to see if what they said is really correct especially on religion's matter or something that is in your reach. Beside, all the verses you quoted above does not support your argument because i did not see where Jesus says " iam not pre-exist". You even shot yourself in leg with that verses.
Ok,You quoted Galatians 4:4-5

"Then in the fullness of time God sent his son, born of human,born under the law, in order that the right purchase freedom for the subjects of the law, so that we might attain the status of sons"

I believe the reason you quoted this verse was because of the words " born of the woman" yes, we all knew that Jesus was born by Marry. But you don't put the words " God sent his son" into consideration. Now let me help you.

How did God send Jesus? Was it the way he sent other prophets by call eg Moses, Samuel or by vision eg Isaiah, Jerimiah etc?

why did Jesus call the son of God ?

You don't have genuine evidence to back your argument tha Jesus did not pre-exist his birth. Actually, nobody says or claim Jesus to be an angel but we can give you many evidence from scripture as an evidnence of his pre-existence.

Can you tell us the meaning ne these statement of Jerus Christ in John 3:13?

"No one has ever ascended into heaven except he who desended from heaven, the son of man"

frobel, don't allow spirit of anti-christ to possess you.

Ayomivic: @ op, its not all you read ,all you hear that you can believe.you need to make a research to see if what they said is really correct especially on religion's matter or something that is in your reach. Beside, all the verses you quoted above does not support your argument because i did not see where Jesus says " iam not pre-exist". You even shot yourself in leg with that verses.
Ok,You quoted Galatians 4:4-5

"Then in the fullness of time God sent his son, born of human,born under the law, in order that the right purchase freedom for the subjects of the law, so that we might attain the status of sons"

I believe the reason you quoted this verse was because of the words " born of the woman" yes, we all knew that Jesus was born by Marry. But you don't put the words " God sent his son" into consideration. Now let me help you.

How did God send Jesus? Was it the way he sent other prophets by call eg Moses, Samuel or by vision eg Isaiah, Jerimiah etc?

why did Jesus call the son of God ?

You don't have genuine evidence to back your argument tha Jesus did not pre-exist his birth. Actually, nobody says or claim Jesus to be an angel but we can give you many evidence from scripture as an evidnence of his pre-existence.

Can you tell us the meaning ne these statement of Jerus Christ in John 3:13?

"No one has ever ascended into heaven except he who desended from heaven, the son of man"

frobel, don't allow spirit of anti-christ to possess you.

Bernimoor claims Jesus is an angel...

Ayomivic: @ op, its not all you read ,all you hear that you can believe.you need to make a research to see if what they said is really correct especially on religion's matter or something that is in your reach. Beside, all the verses you quoted above does not support your argument because i did not see where Jesus says " iam not pre-exist". You even shot yourself in leg with that verses.
Ok,You quoted Galatians 4:4-5

"Then in the fullness of time God sent his son, born of human,born under the law, in order that the right purchase freedom for the subjects of the law, so that we might attain the status of sons"

I believe the reason you quoted this verse was because of the words " born of the woman" yes, we all knew that Jesus was born by Marry. But you don't put the words " God sent his son" into consideration. Now let me help you.

How did God send Jesus? Was it the way he sent other prophets by call eg Moses, Samuel or by vision eg Isaiah, Jerimiah etc?

why did Jesus call the son of God ?

You don't have genuine evidence to back your argument tha Jesus did not pre-exist his birth. Actually, nobody says or claim Jesus to be an angel but we can give you many evidence from scripture as an evidnence of his pre-existence.

Can you tell us the meaning ne these statement of Jerus Christ in John 3:13?

"No one has ever ascended into heaven except he who desended from heaven, the son of man"

frobel, don't allow spirit of anti-christ to possess you.

Maybe you want to help Tgirl4real with my response before we move further.

btw, Antichrist is the ONE who does not believe that the Messiah came as HUMAN BEING.

" This is how you can know God’s Spirit: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ came to earth as a human is from God. . 3 And every spirit who refuses to say this about Jesus is not from God." - 1 John 4:2-3

benalvino:

HAHAHA so you get all your points from Sir Anthony Farquhar Buzzard. I follow this guy. He always loses his debates

If you continue with this childishness, I will ignore you - thanks.

frosbel:

If you continue with this childishness, I will ignore you - thanks.

How is it childish? that guy is the No. 1 Unitarian i know... anyways you can call it childishness or however you wish but that is your preference... I said you get your point from him. so what is wrong with the statement?

frosbel:


Maybe you want to help Tgirl4real with my response before we move further.

btw, Antichrist is the ONE who does not believe that the Messiah came as HUMAN BEING.

" This is how you can know God’s Spirit: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ(God) came to earth as a human is from God. . 3 And every spirit who refuses to say this about Jesus is not from God." - 1 John 4:2-3

@bolded,Why not read the scripture this way? John wrote 1John1:1 remember?

Bidam: @bolded,Why not read the scripture this way? John wrote 1John1:1 remember?

Do the right thing and respond to the questions I posed to Tgirl4real.

FROSBEL, DO THE right thing AND RESPOND TO MY QUESTION.

SELAH

frosbel:

Do the right thing and respond to the questions I posed to Tgirl4real.

Don't be lazy, go study your bible,the answers are there in black and white and stop picking questions you got on U-Tube.Shdemidemi was actually right when he called you half-baked.

the Jewish Shema
Deuteronomy 6:4
4"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5"

paul redefines it in 1 Corinthians 8:6
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

the bold says he preexist because it states we exist through him...
so did we start to exist when Mary gave birth to him?

back to shema... the one God who is the one Lord in the old testament is revealed in Corin 8:6 as Who?... who is the one lord now?
paul didnt identify jesus as a savior here... but as a partaker of creation in the beginning...
parallel to this can be seen in colossians 1:15-18

paul still makes it clear of the preexistence of Jesus... with 1 corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
when moses stroke the rock and provide water in the wilderness in the book of numbers it was Jesus that was providing the water

^^so how did jesus become the rock if he did not preexist?

Bidam: Don't be lazy, go study your bible,the answers are there in black and white and stop picking questions you got on U-Tube.Shdemidemi was actually right when he called you half-baked.

Study my bible, is this some sort of joke, I not only study , i do research, lol.

Besides, those are my questions, can you help your clueless brethren ( i.e Bidam and co ) ?

benalvino: the Jewish Shema
Deuteronomy 6:4
4"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5"

paul redefines it in 1 Corinthians 8:6
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

the bold says he preexist because it states we exist through him...
so did we start to exist when Mary gave birth to him?

back to shema... the one God who is the one Lord in the old testament is revealed in Corin 8:6 as Who?... who is the one lord now?
paul didnt identify jesus as a savior here... but as a partaker of creation in the beginning...
parallel to this can be seen in colossians 1:15-18

paul still makes it clear of the preexistence of Jesus... with 1 corinthians 10
1For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
when moses stroke the rock and provide water in the wilderness in the book of numbers it was Jesus that was providing the water

^^so how did jesus become the rock if he did not preexist?

irrelevant at this juncture !

Go back and answer the questions I posed to Tgirl4real, i can see you are all running scared.

frosbel:

irrelevant at this juncture !

Go back and answer the questions I posed to Tgirl4real, i can see you are all running scared.

you ask her not me... if you want i can answer because the verse did not prove anything... it says Jesus was born by Mary it doesn't change the fact he preexist... it shows you how he took human form so he could die for our sins...

you are suppose to address the question i post to you and not redirect me to question you ask tgirl so you can dodge my question

benalvino:

you ask her not me... if you want i can answer because the verse did not prove anything... it says Jesus was born by Mary it doesn't change the fact he preexist... it shows you how he took human form so he could die for our sins...

you are suppose to address the question i post to you and not redirect me to question you ask tgirl so you can dodge my question

The question is for ALL.

I need point by point answers or don't bother Sir.

Chei!!!

See me see proffesional exam. Cos this wan pass jamb n WAEC put together.

@ Frosbel,

you u've gone over this issue like a million times and I have read all you have to say about it. Remember that we spent a long time on the 'divinity of Jesus'. I don't have the energy for any back n forth o again. I'm sure you could sense that from my response.

well, others can help out.

If you like call me a coward.

^^

not you sis, I will never call you a coward.

Referring to those 'intellectual' midgets

Anyway me I tire too.

Pastor Olu T:


No true Christian would ever say Jesus was an angel, and if any does it shows his/her ignorance. The bible clearly teaches Jesus preexistence before His birth, I just wonder why u never want to accept despite all the scriptures staring u in the face. Just to leave u with another one, Micah 5:2 You Bethlehem Ephrathah, are too small to be included among Judah's cities. Yet from you Israel's future ruler will come for me. His origin go back to distant past, to days long ago (God's word version).

boda frosbel has started again!

@ Frosbel

I'm still doing a study on this but I came across this scripture and I want your honest comment on it.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

frosbel: ^^

not you sis, I will never call you a coward.

Referring to those 'intellectual' midgets

Anyway me I tire too.

lol

U should be tired really. I actually studied this all over again and studying it in church. One thing that is glaring and that one CANNOT miss is that Jesus pre-existed.

Ref: Heb 11:3 "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."

frosbel:
1. Why did Jesus have to pre-exist

Jesus is the spoken-word of God! He begins to exist when God said "Let there be...." that's why John said In the beginning (when Time starts) was the WORD", this's the major reason why Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creations.

Imagine Frosbel was with his J.Brother and he said to him "go and get me water". Your Bro. will do according to your instruction(the word that come from your mouth). Now let assume your Bro. is not there and you need water, then you pronounce "water in a cup, come!" without move an inche, and suddenly a cup filled with water appeared as you commanded.
Then you will realise that you only issue a command but something carried out the action.
Let's assume you didn't talk to your Brother or speak to air, what will happen? Nothing will happen!

That's why John said "..and without him(The Word) was not any thing made that was made."

Some verses will say GOD created the worlds(Gen 1:1) also some will say the WORD created it(Heb 11:3). Do they contradict themselves? No! because God only issue a command and the WORD(Jesus) carries out the action. Without command no action, so God is the one who created the universe by is Word(Jesus)

Jesus made it clear that "the Son can do nothing except being given by the Father" just because if God didn't speak nothing will happen.

John 8:42 "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me."
In this verse Jesus proceeded and came from God and He was sent by God, how? because the WORD proceeds from God as God sent(given instruction). Jesus also said John 14:11 "Believe me(The image of invisible God) that I(The WORD) am [is] in the Father(Holyspirit), and the Father(Holyspirit) in me(The image of invisible God):.."

Jesus also said "I and my Father are one" Just because nobody can seperate your word from you.
That's why John said "...and the Word was God...."

More to say about Jesus as the spoken-word of God.

2. What connection is there between the pre-existence of Jesus and our salvation

The simple answer to this question is, since Jesus(The word) only carried out actions from God's commandment and He is the life of every men. So God send the same WORD to perfect what It started from beginning.

3. how do you relate his pre-existence to Isaiah 11:10 and Romans 15:12

You can only get this right by looking at the origin of Jesus. Angel visited Mary and told her that Holyspirit will come upon her. In general agreement we know that Holyspirit didn't sleep with Mary, then what Holyspirit did when It came upon her? Holyspirit only came and spake a WORD, how do we know this? John 1:14 gave us the answer "And the Word was made flesh,...." So after Holyspirit spake the WORD according the BOLDED Ref above "..so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear" in case of Jesus "The thing we seen(Jesus) was not made of thing we know(sperma) that's why Jesus' birth was a miracle. Now when The WORD was made flesh to come in blood and water 1John 5:6 It must surely come from a descendant which is the root of Jesse.

John couldn't make a mistake when he said "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word(Jesus), and the Holy Ghost: and these three(plural) are one(singular)."

Jesus Himself comfirmed this statement before He died "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we(singular personal pronouns as one) will come unto him, and make our(singular possesive adjectives as many 'The Father, The Holyspirit, and The Word(Jesus)' abode with him."

Question from the above verse should be, why three person will make abode inside a man? Simply because The Word(Jesus) is inside the Holyspirit.

My point here might be ignored but Jesus still remains the Spoken word of GOD, and It was The Word that carried out the operations of the creations.

Jesus will remain "only begotten Son of God" untill God cease to speak. Remember will only gave this WORD name when It became Flesh. Jesus said "I'm going to my Father," that is, the Word is returning back to the owner.

Shalom!

Tgirl4real:

lol

U should be tired really. I actually studied this all over again and studying it in church. One thing that is glaring and that one CANNOT miss is that Jesus pre-existed.

It is not glaring to millions of people like me, so one of us must be wrong, we can't both be right.

Also , we cannot base truths on assumptions, truth has to be based on fact !

@ Frosbel

Frosbel I'm waiting for your response to my post

@@Op,there is no arguement about the pre-exixtence of Jesus before hid comin to the earth plane.
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. " (John 8:58).
What do you think?

Joagbaje:
@ Frosbel

I'm still doing a study on this but I came across this scripture and I want your honest comment on it.

Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

This is a classic case of adding to the word of GOD :

In more accurate bible versions, this is the correct translation :


Ephesians 3:9
New International Version (NIV)
9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things


Ephesians 3:9
Common English Bible (CEB)
9 God sent me to reveal the secret plan[a] that had been hidden since the beginning of time by God, who created everything.


Ephesians 3:9
New Living Translation (NLT)
9 I was chosen to explain to everyone[a] this mysterious plan that God, the Creator of all things, had kept secret from the beginning.

Ephesians 3:9
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
9 and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in[a] God who created all things;

Ephesians 3:9
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
9 and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in[a] God who created all things;

omotayokay: @@Op,there is no arguement about the pre-exixtence of Jesus before hid comin to the earth plane.
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. " (John 8:58).
What do you think?

Okay ,let me agree with you for the benefit of doubt that Jesus Pre-existed , answer this simple question !

- How many spirits did he have when he came as a MAN

frosbel:

Okay ,let me agree with you for the benefit of doubt that Jesus Pre-existed , answer this simple question !

- How many spirits did he have when he came as a MAN

Moring Mr. Frosbel, hope you see my post to your questions above?

Shalom!

Emusan:

Moring Mr. Frosbel, hope you see my post to your questions above?

Shalom!

bro we have gone through this before.. it will be another endless one

benalvino:

bro we have gone through this before.. it will be another endless one

You're right sir, imagine Frosbel think Jesus is an angel lol.. Whom Angels themself are worship.

Emusan:

You're right sir, imagine Frosbel think Jesus is an angel lol.. Whom Angels themself are worship.

he doesn't think jesus is an angel.

frosbel and anyone on the thread, should [size=18pt]KINDLY DEFINE AN ANGEL![/size]

Angels are servants, we have spiritual angels ,and human angels