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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by lavylilly: 1:54pm On Jan 07
Yes na
Millenniallover:
Atheist are humans too... So some are good and some a bad
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 10:31pm On Jan 07

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by zyzxx(m): 7:36am On Jan 09
LordReed:
Very interesting short story:

http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html

Animated version:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6fcK_fRYaI

I am so surprise this video agreed that there is God, despite all the rubbish inside
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 7:46am On Jan 09
zyzxx:
I am so surprise this video agreed that there is God, despite all the rubbish inside

You miss the point of it.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by zyzxx(m): 8:13am On Jan 09
LordReed:


You miss the point of it.
the point of it is pointless, how will you make me believe I am the only one recarnated? And the purpose of all Is for me to be like God that u claimed it doesn't exist?

That meaningless
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 8:31am On Jan 09
zyzxx:
the point of it is pointless, how will you make me believe I am the only one recarnated? And the purpose of all Is for me to be like God that u claimed it doesn't exist?

That meaningless

LoL! That was not the point. The point was to recognise that all humans are in the same situation as you so treat them well with compassion, empathy and love because at the end of the day we are all we have in this life.

It's easy to get bogged down with the stories of gods and afterlives which is one problem with religion. They can't see the forest for the trees. Religions allow people to forget the fact of our humanity for the fiction of imaginary groupings of us vs them. They let people focus on tales of gods and heavens to the detriment of acknowledging the humanity of every person that lives. Don't make that mistake with this tale.

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by CAPSLOCKED: 11:14am On Jan 10
ogbuefi677
WHEN MUSLIMS DO IT IT'S STUPID, BUT WHEN CHRISTIANS PARTICIPATE IN THE SAME HOLY BOOK RECITATION AND CHURCH BUILDING, IT'S A GREAT FEAT?

I CAN SEE YOUR FELLOW CHRISTIANS LIKING YOUR POST. YOU ATTACK MUSLIMS BECAUSE THEY'RE USUALLY MEEK ONLINE.. BUT WHEN WE ON THIS SIDE CHANGE AM FOR YOU, YOU REMEMBER RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE. cheesy

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 8:48am On Jan 14
As part of my moving on policy this year, I am no longer going to be asking questions about the bible. The book is a series of fairytales and deserves no serious thought put towards it.

I asked myself if I came across a person who wanted to live according to Harry Potter books how would I treat them? I would laugh at the absurdity and not give it any serious thought. In fact I may cheer them on and tell them "you do you bro", I certainly won't go questioning JK Rowling's depictions. This is the response I think the bible and Christians (and all other religions as well) deserve.

Except of course when they want to force their fairytales on us as rules for living. Then the claws come out. Live your life according to your fairytale but do not presume to force me to live according to it, no thank you with all the vehemence I can muster.

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Dantedasz(m): 12:30pm On Jan 14
LordReed:
As part of my moving on policy this year, I am no longer going to be asking questions about the bible. The book is a series of fairytales and deserves no serious thought put towards it.

I asked myself if I came across a person who wanted to live according to Harry Potter books how would I treat them? I would laugh at the absurdity and not give it any serious thought. In fact I may cheer them on and tell them "you do you bro", I certainly won't go questioning JK Rowling's depictions. This is the response I think the bible and Christians (and all other religions as well) deserve.

Except of course when they want to force their fairytales on us as rules for living. Then the claws come out. Live your life according to your fairytale but do not presume to force me to live according to it, no thank you with all the vehemence I can muster.

It is a sheer waste of time discussing a fairy tale book. It is even worse attempting to reason logically with the adherents and believers of the stories contained in the fairy tale book.
Like I always say at the expense of sounding like a broken record,:"Dont slam your head against a slab of concrete!"

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 1:05pm On Jan 14
Dantedasz:


It is a sheer waste of time discussing a fairy tale book. It is even worse attempting to reason logically with the adherents and believers of the stories contained in the fairy tale book.
Like I always say at the expense of sounding like a broken record,:"Dont slam your head against a slab of concrete!"

True words my broda. Complete waste of time. I will now be devoting my thoughts and time to all the things that will make me grow and progress.

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by ouigy99(m): 3:37pm On Jan 15
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by AmericanPecan: 4:55am On Jan 25
Im a 30 years old what you would call a black America I guess? And want to understand something? I want to live in Nigeria and feel free and safe. My goal is to someday buy land in the north for a small tree farm. It is my understanding that there are people of some abrahamic theology killing people. While every one on the content is currently at risk of starvation. YOU have 20 years tops dont think other nations will come to your aid.. I cry as my ancestors have. Nigeras population 200 million+++who do you think.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by CAPSLOCKED: 8:39am On Jan 26
AmericanPecan:
Im a 30 years old what you would call a black America I guess? And want to understand something? I want to live in Nigeria and feel free and safe. My goal is to someday buy land in the north for a small tree farm. It is my understanding that there are people of some abrahamic theology killing people. While every one on the continent is currently at risk of starvation. YOU have 20 years tops dont think other nations will come to your aid.. I cry as my ancestors have. Nigeras population 200 million+++who do you think.

The thing tire pesin.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Nobody: 10:18am On Feb 15
Hi
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 8:31am On Feb 16
Blu03:
Hi

Hello
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 5:34pm On Feb 21
LordReed:
As part of my moving on policy this year, I am no longer going to be asking questions about the bible. The book is a series of fairytales and deserves no serious thought put towards it.

I asked myself if I came across a person who wanted to live according to Harry Potter books how would I treat them? I would laugh at the absurdity and not give it any serious thought. In fact I may cheer them on and tell them "you do you bro", I certainly won't go questioning JK Rowling's depictions. This is the response I think the bible and Christians (and all other religions as well) deserve.

Except of course when they want to force their fairytales on us as rules for living. Then the claws come out. Live your life according to your fairytale but do not presume to force me to live according to it, no thank you with all the vehemence I can muster.
I'm happy to answer any questions about the Bible you may have. Long time btw.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 6:18pm On Feb 21
Joshthefirst:
I'm happy to answer any questions about the Bible you may have. Long time btw.

Hope you are good?

Well, I no longer have any questions I want answered from the bible as I have become convinced it is a compilation of fables, myths and legends. Thanks for offering though.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 7:48pm On Feb 21
LordReed:


Hope you are good?

Well, I no longer have any questions I want answered from the bible as I have become convinced it is a compilation of fables, myths and legends. Thanks for offering though.
I'm good thank you.
Leave off the Bible then. Consider the historical personality of Jesus Christ. If you honestly look at the person of Jesus as historical figure, and the early church that came from him, you will most certainly be dumbfounded.

What questions do you have?
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 8:44pm On Feb 21
Joshthefirst:
I'm good thank you.
Leave off the Bible then. Consider the historical personality of Jesus Christ. If you honestly look at the person of Jesus as historical figure, and the early church that came from him, you will most certainly be dumbfounded.

What questions do you have?

I have looked and I realize it is not as remarkable once you cannot consider the miraculous since those cannot be historically verified. So what are you left with a man who supposedly taught some "radical" stuff, so what?
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 9:02pm On Feb 21
LordReed:


I have looked and I realize it is not as remarkable once you cannot consider the miraculous since those cannot be historically verified. So what are you left with a man who supposedly taught some "radical" stuff, so what?
Consider what is historically verified first, and you will realize that there is no answer apart from the miraculous. This isn't just radical stuff.

Historically verified facts:
Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate
His body was gone from the tomb after three days.

Disciples claimed to have seen him, at one point over 500 people claimed he appeared to them at once. What are the odds that 500 people would have the same hallucination?

These people who claimed to have seen him were tortured and killed and died proclaiming he was resurrected.

Jesus' own brothers became disciples and said he was risen from death. One, James, became the head of the Jerusalem Church. Do you have a sibling whom you've lived with all your life? Imagine suddenly starting to worship your sibling as God, even under duress. Highly unlikely unless something serious is going on.

Paul, formerly Saul, a Jewish zealot who killed and persecuted those who believed he resurrected, suddenly became a disciple, claimed to have seen Jesus, and went on to write most of the new testament Bible. And was eventually beheaded.


These are facts of history. There is no other suitable answer to these facts apart from the fact that Jesus actually did rise from the dead and was seen by all these people.


Imagine a large conspiracy theory. Imagine a group of us agreed to pretend Hitler was still alive for example, and we started spreading this news and started a cult following. Then imagine the government went after our cult because they deemed it illegal. They got our top chiefs and tortured them. If our cult was founded on lies, then of course the lies will come out. Even if some of us are crazy enough to die for a lie, it certainly wouldn't be all of us. The conspiracy would collapse

But the opposite happened in Christianity. This 'fable and folktale' as you call it, did not collapse under scrutiny and persecution and death. It GREW. It eventually overwhelmed the empire and has now spread all over the world.
Til today, people still die on account of the 'fable' of a resurrected Christ.



Consider this and count your costs. Do honest research. Did Jesus really rise from the dead? Disprove that and you have successfully destroyed the heart and foundation of Christianity. But if he actually became alive again after death, then something serious is going on here, and the words of Jesus must demand your attention. They claim to give humanity a way to escape death and have eternal life.


Cc: JeromeBlack
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 11:18pm On Feb 21
Joshthefirst:

Historically verified facts:
Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate
His body was gone from the tomb after three days.

Verified by whom and how.


Disciples claimed to have seen him, at one point over 500 people claimed he appeared to them at once. What are the odds that 500 people would have the same hallucination?

Historically verified by whom and how.


These people who claimed to have seen him were tortured and killed and died proclaiming he was resurrected.

So? People die for all sorts of causes. Is it beans to wear suicide vest?


Jesus' own brothers became disciples and said he was risen from death. One, James, became the head of the Jerusalem Church. Do you have a sibling whom you've lived with all your life? Imagine suddenly starting to worship your sibling as God, even under duress. Highly unlikely unless something serious is going on.

Who were the historically verified siblings of Jesus?


Paul, formerly Saul, a Jewish zealot who killed and persecuted those who believed he resurrected, suddenly became a disciple, claimed to have seen Jesus, and went on to write most of the new testament Bible. And was eventually beheaded.

Has nothing to do with historically verifying anything other than Paul lived. Paul never saw Jesus in the flesh so he could have been talking all of it from his own head. Besides people switch sides all the time, how is that a compelling argument? I became an atheist after being a Christian for 28+years, does my case compel you to become an atheist?


These are facts of history. There is no other suitable answer to these facts apart from the fact that Jesus actually did rise from the dead and was seen by all these people.

Suitable may be comforting to your beliefs but I would rather have facts and I have not seen any facts that make any of this compelling.


Imagine a large conspiracy theory. Imagine a group of us agreed to pretend Hitler was still alive for example, and we started spreading this news and started a cult following. Then imagine the government went after our cult because they deemed it illegal. They got our top chiefs and tortured them. If our cult was founded on lies, then of course the lies will come out. Even if some of us are crazy enough to die for a lie, it certainly wouldn't be all of us. The conspiracy would collapse

But the opposite happened in Christianity. This 'fable and folktale' as you call it, did not collapse under scrutiny and persecution and death. It GREW. It eventually overwhelmed the empire and has now spread all over the world.
Til today, people still die on account of the 'fable' of a resurrected Christ.

You seem to have little appreciation for how folklore grows and assumes a life of it's own. When Bram Stoker first wrote his novel Dracula, little did he know that it would form the basis for most of the modern world's idea of what a vampire is. Yet it is a true born fable.

So what if people die for fables? Does the suicide bomber's fable compel you?



Consider this and count your costs. Do honest research. Did Jesus really rise from the dead? Disprove that and you have successfully destroyed the heart and foundation of Christianity. But if he actually became alive again after death, then something serious is going on here, and the words of Jesus must demand your attention. They claim to give humanity a way to escape death and have eternal life.


Cc: JeromeBlack


I don't have to disprove anything, you who believe are the one to bring the proofs.

I see my dear budaatum moved by the words of Jesus and I sort of envy him that he can find inspiration in them. Me, they feel like insipid platitudes for the forlorn, no offense meant but that's just the way I feel now.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by budaatum: 11:40pm On Feb 21
LordReed:

I see my dear budaatum moved by the words of Jesus and I sort of envy him that he can find inspiration in them. Me, they feel like insipid platitudes for the forlorn, no offense meant but that's just the way I feel now.
It's in the understanding, my Lord.

Most see Jesus as a religious person when the facts are that the religious people are the one's who crucified him for encouraging people to eat of the fruits of the knowledge of good and evil and cure themselves of the religious ignorance that was the cause of their early death.

Unfortunately, most theists and atheists alike, can't strip the religious robes the religion wove around him so that people would not see that Jesus was killed for being an atheist to the religion of his time. And most atheists allow theists to define Scripture for them or you too will eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and find that you will indeed not die but be forced to accept the reality of your existence which religion wrongly understands as God's curse.

Someday, you, my Lord, and I will engage in detail, and then shall you too see why Jesus is indeed Lord.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 12:46am On Feb 22
budaatum:


Someday, you, my Lord, and I will engage in detail, and then shall you too see why Jesus is indeed Lord.

Maybe my dear buda, maybe.

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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 8:31am On Feb 22
LordReed:


Verified by whom and how.



Historically verified by whom and how.
Secular historians, I can’t start explaining how historical events are verified. Look into it yourself. There is more historical evidence for Jesus than for Aristotle, or Julius Caesar.


LordReed:
So? People die for all sorts of causes. Is it beans to wear suicide vest?
This is a different mind blowing cause, and it’s disheartening to see you compare it with suicide bombing. This is for sticking to a claim that Jesus resurrected. They are killed by others. They don’t take up explosive vests or arms to murder others along with themselves. The two are radically different.

LordReed:
Who were the historically verified siblings of Jesus?
James, and Jude.

LordReed:
Has nothing to do with historically verifying anything other than Paul lived. Paul never saw Jesus in the flesh so he could have been talking all of it from his own head. Besides people switch sides all the time, how is that a compelling argument? I became an atheist after being a Christian for 28+years, does my case compel you to become an atheist?
You don’t seem to be thinking about this clearly. Paul was a murdering people on account of his convictions. He was murdering people who claimed Jesus rose from the dead. And he went on to become a martyr and a propeller of the same gospel. It is certainly not the same as an ordinary switching of sides. This involves life and death. You’re dismissing these issues without even giving them any thought. I find that most people who claim to have examined Christianity and religion and abandoned it did an extremely poor and dismissive work.


LordReed:
Suitable may be comforting to your beliefs but I would rather have facts and I have not seen any facts that make any of this compelling.
You’ve done a good job throwing the facts I gave you away. These facts are confirmed by secular historians, many of them atheists like yourself.


LordReed:
You seem to have little appreciation for how folklore grows and assumes a life of it's own. When Bram Stoker first wrote his novel Dracula, little did he know that it would form the basis for most of the modern world's idea of what a vampire is. Yet it is a true born fable.

So what if people die for fables? Does the suicide bomber's fable compel you?
I feel incredibly insulted that you’d compare someone sticking to a fact and being murdered for it to someone killing others to stand up for his own agenda. You’re comparing fables to historical fact, and I don’t mean to be condescending, but this just shows ignorance on your part. Even Dracula was a historical figure, but it’s easier to see the difference between the historical figure Dracula, and what his story is now, and that of Christ, and the way his Story has changed the world completely.


LordReed:
I don't have to disprove anything, you who believe are the one to bring the proofs.

I see my dear budaatum moved by the words of Jesus and I sort of envy him that he can find inspiration in them. Me, they feel like insipid platitudes for the forlorn, no offense meant but that's just the way I feel now.
Toh. You don’t seem to be interested in any proof I may bring.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 10:46am On Feb 22
Joshthefirst:
Secular historians, I can’t start explaining how historical events are verified. Look into it yourself. There is more historical evidence for Jesus than for Aristotle, or Julius Caesar.

Name one secular historian that has historically confirmed the crucifixion of Jesus and the resurrection. Write his/her name and the published work.


This is a different mind blowing cause, and it’s disheartening to see you compare it with suicide bombing. This is for sticking to a claim that Jesus resurrected. They are killed by others. They don’t take up explosive vests or arms to murder others along with themselves. The two are radically different.

So one waits to be killed while the other goes and kills himself. Death the result with each believing his cause is just and worthy, even sanctioned by their god. Lots of distinction without a difference. When a person gives their life to a cause does it automatically prove that the cause is true?


James, and Jude.

Again mention one secular historian that has confirmed this and their published work.


You don’t seem to be thinking about this clearly. Paul was a murdering people on account of his convictions. He was murdering people who claimed Jesus rose from the dead. And he went on to become a martyr and a propeller of the same gospel. It is certainly not the same as an ordinary switching of sides. This involves life and death. You’re dismissing these issues without even giving them any thought. I find that most people who claim to have examined Christianity and religion and abandoned it did an extremely poor and dismissive work.

As far as we know Paul murdered no one. He witnessed the killing of Stephen, he arrested other Christians and sent them to prison. Mention one place Paul murdered someone lemme see how mistaken I am.

I am not dismissing life and death situations. I am asking you to show me how your case is compelling when this is not the first time people die for causes or switch sides even on pain of death.


You’ve done a good job throwing the facts I gave you away. These facts are confirmed by secular historians, many of them atheists like yourself.

Answer the questions I have posed with respect to actually providing proof.


I feel incredibly insulted that you’d compare someone sticking to a fact and being murdered for it to someone killing others to stand up for his own agenda. You’re comparing fables to historical fact, and I don’t mean to be condescending, but this just shows ignorance on your part. Even Dracula was a historical figure, but it’s easier to see the difference between the historical figure Dracula, and what his story is now, and that of Christ, and the way his Story has changed the world completely.

Then educate my ignorance and show me how dying for Jesus represents a greater sacrifice or compulsion than dying for country or Allah.


Toh. You don’t seem to be interested in any proof I may bring.

I have asked for specific pieces, provide them let's see.
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Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 3:48pm On Feb 22
LordReed:


Name one secular historian that has historically confirmed the crucifixion of Jesus and the resurrection. Write his/her name and the published work.
I have asked for specific pieces, provide them let's see.
look here.

This is a simple article I found very quickly.

Other than than you cannot be giving me homework when you’re obviously too arrogant to even consider the information or view it with an open mind. I wish you well.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 5:34pm On Feb 22
Joshthefirst:
look here.

This is a simple article I found very quickly.

Other than than you cannot be giving me homework when you’re obviously too arrogant to even consider the information or view it with an open mind. I wish you well.

I did not give you any homework. You presented yourself as a responder to questions, now you are getting angry, how is it my fault?

Throwing in a history.com article doesn't answer the question I asked which is name the secular historian that confirmed the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Provide the published work. When you want to provide evidence make sure it is compelling and I have given you an idea of what it would take.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 9:18pm On Feb 22
LordReed:


I did not give you any homework. You presented yourself as a responder to questions, now you are getting angry, how is it my fault?

Throwing in a history.com article doesn't answer the question I asked which is name the secular historian that confirmed the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Provide the published work. When you want to provide evidence make sure it is compelling and I have given you an idea of what it would take.
I responded to your statement nau, with questions about what I assume you already knew since you claimed to have examined the Bible, but you now went ahead to even give me assignment. I even gave a reliable article thinking you’d at least pursue it from there but you rejected it and told me to redo the assignment. Wow. Do you think this is an academic forum? undecided


But I’ll humor you, because I care about you. These are some popular non-Christian historians who have ratified the historicity of Jesus:

Josephus
Bart Ehrman
Numerous others.

I find it baffling that you claim to have examined the Bible and found it full of fables, but when issues as central as the historical events surrounding Jesus are brought up, you lazily ask for more evidence. Did you really examine the Bible? Or did you dismiss it? Meanwhile, Google is your friend oh.

Bart Ehrman (a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. p. 285
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by LordReed(m): 9:56pm On Feb 22
Joshthefirst:
I responded to your statement nau, with questions about what I assume you already knew since you claimed to have examined the Bible, but you now went ahead to even give me assignment. I even gave a reliable article thinking you’d at least pursue it from there but you rejected it and told me to redo the assignment. Wow. Do you think this is an academic forum? undecided

Oga I didn't give you assignment. You brought yourself to me to answer my questions, why are you now twisting it around? I ask for something specific, you didn't get it so you now want me to answer the question you said you'll answer. Is it too difficult? I thought you said the crucifixion and resurrection was confirmed by secular historians so why is it difficult to name one person and his publication?


But I’ll humor you, because I care about you. These are some popular non-Christian historians who have ratified the historicity of Jesus:

Josephus
Bart Ehrman
Numerous others.

I find it baffling that you claim to have examined the Bible and found it full of fables, but when issues as central as the historical events surrounding Jesus are brought up, you lazily ask for more evidence. Did you really examine the Bible? Or did you dismiss it? Meanwhile, Google is your friend oh.

Bart Ehrman (a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees" B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. p. 285

Do you understand the question at all? I didn't ask about the historicity of Jesus. Did Bart Erhman say he confirms the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus?

BTW do you know the meanings of fables, legends and myths? I suggest you look them up because it seems you think fables, legends and myths cannot be built around real things and people.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by Joshthefirst(m): 11:28pm On Feb 22
LordReed:


Oga I didn't give you assignment. You brought yourself to me to answer my questions, why are you now twisting it around? I ask for something specific, you didn't get it so you now want me to answer the question you said you'll answer. Is it too difficult? I thought you said the crucifixion and resurrection was confirmed by secular historians so why is it difficult to name one person and his publication?



Do you understand the question at all? I didn't ask about the historicity of Jesus. Did Bart Erhman say he confirms the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus?

BTW do you know the meanings of fables, legends and myths? I suggest you look them up because it seems you think fables, legends and myths cannot be built around real things and people.
Oga nawa for you oh, Ehrman in the publication I gave, supports the existence, the trial, and the crucifixion of Jesus as King of the Jews. Did you even open the link and read the book? You said I should post publications, I posted and you dismissed it without even reading it. Wow.


And I never said secular historians like Bart Ehrman confirm the resurrection, I said they confirm the crucifixion and the fact that the body was not in the grave. I gave the resurrection as the only viable answer to these historical events. Don’t change mouth.
Re: The Non-Christian Chatbox ( sticky ) by budaatum: 11:46pm On Feb 22
Joshthefirst:
. There is more historical evidence for Jesus than for Aristotle, or Julius Caesar.
You may as well stick a label on your head to tell us you do not have a clue what you talk about!

You definitely would not have said the above if you knew anything more than the names Aristotle, or Julius Caesar!

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