HellVictorinho:

Your view of luck means there is nothing like intelligence.
So, your view is incorrect.

Are you missing the part where you have to prepare? Don't be illogical. Its you who is discounting intelligence, thinking luck is some dumb thing that just happens to you. You want 50million dollars to just fall into your lap, where is the intelligence in that?

LordReed:


Are you missing the part where you have to prepare? Don't be illogical. Its you who is discounting intelligence, thinking luck is some dumb thing that just happens to you. You want 50million dollars to just fall into your lap, where is the intelligence in that?

No .
It's you.
You think being lucky and being intelligent mean the same thing.
Preparation has nothing to do with luck.
Preparation only shows intelligence.
In fact,you actually think being successful is the same thing as being lucky,too.
Luck, intelligence and success are three different things.
Intelligence shows you tried to get
Luck shows you had a chance to get.
Success means you got.
What else?

HellVictorinho:

No .
It's you.
You think being lucky and being intelligent mean the same thing.
Preparation has nothing to do with luck.
Preparation only shows intelligence.
In fact,you actually think being successful is the same thing as being lucky,too.
Luck, intelligence and success are three different things.
Intelligence shows you tried to get
Luck shows you had a chance to get.
Success means you got.
What else?

Are you lucky if you are not successful? Are you lucky if you do not succeed? On the other hand don't strawman my argument, I am not equating luck to intelligence. Intelligence is the tool you use to get lucky.

Meanwhile I am done with this conversation, you are free to continue with thinking magic 50 million dollars will fall into your lap.

LordReed:


Are you lucky if you are not successful? Are you lucky if you do not succeed? On the other hand don't strawman my argument, I am not equating luck to intelligence. Intelligence is the tool you use to get lucky.

Meanwhile I am done with this conversation, you are free to continue with thinking magic 50 million dollars will fall into your lap.

You actually equated luck to intelligence when you said the act of picking up a pen means you are lucky.
Also, you should not equate success to luck because success means you achieved something after taking advantage of the luck you had or your exposure to something useful such as a pen.
Perhaps, you are even saying that the pen was never good for anything.
Well ,the 50 million dollars was just an illustration.
Do you think I am really expecting 50 million dollars
Hell Victorinho is neither a pessimist nor an optimist.
He is a realist.
All he sees now is randomness.
In other words,he is awaiting twists and turns.
So, even Elon Musk can't amaze him.
The universe is an arena of madness.

LordReed:


Don't fall into the trap of magical thinking, you are not going to meet 50 million dollars out of the blue. You will meet opportunities to make 50 millions dollars but how would you recognise or take advantage of the opportunity if you are not prepared?

You, My Lord, need to get Hell to define the words he uses.

I have found his dictionary to not be the same as a regular one so he does not quite mean what he writes.

budaatum:

You, My Lord, need to get Hell to define the words he uses.

I have found his dictionary to not be the same as a regular one so he does not quite mean what he writes.

I get irritated when people tell me what I mean and insist even after clarification so I am not interested in further conversation with him on this subject.

LordReed:


I get irritated when people tell me what I mean and insist even after clarification so I am not interested in further conversation with him on this subject.

I get sad for it shows they do not hear, even themselves.

DeusXmachina:
My idea/thoughts/hypothesis on the origin of religion.

Long form writing isn't something I'm particularly good at, as I find to hard to organize my thoughts so bare with me.
I'll be trying to connect some loosely related ideas combined with my own experience and limited understanding of the human mind here.

Let's start with examining one of the oldest known form of belief in the world, which is animism (the attribution of a living soul to plants, inanimate objects, and natural phenomena.), which is still commonly held by rural indigenous tribes/people.

We are not inherently logical creatures, we are driven more by emotion, sentiment, intuition. While our minds are hardwired to create narratives about our ourselves and our reality.

Here is a thought experiment, what would an uninformed person who was born and lived only in the wilderness think about the world? What would he think caused the rain/thunder, caused the earthquake, the sun to rise etc.. what narrative would his/her mind create to explain the world?
My thoughts here are from using my own memories and my thought process form my childhood as a reference here. Whenever there was a rain storm I was frightened, because to my immature and uniformed self it gave me a feeling as though the sky, rain, wind, thunder had a mind and will of its own and it was raging.

With this I'm drawing an assumption on animism being something that came about from this type of feeling. A feeling of as though everything and every phenomenon in the world had a will and mind of its own. Because what could possibly cause these phenomenon to behave the way they did, and it all seemed unpredictable.
So, a not so far fetched idea would be an animistic perception of the world.

Ok, tells take this a little further. Polytheism originating from animism.
From natural phenomenon having a mind and will of its own, to being anthropomorphized..

Will continue later..

Read, liked, waiting.

budaatum:

I get sad for it shows they do not hear, even themselves.

I know that winnings gotten from gambling are viewed as being lucky.
But I wasn't expecting LordReed to apply such views towards my statements.
Besides, there are cases whereby a person wins XYZ dollars. Then loses it as well as every other money with him after staking again.
So,why should I apply such views towards other scenarios or scenarios that have nothing to do with betting

HellVictorinho:

Well,if I come across a pen on the floor,it means I'm lucky to some extent because I can use the pen to write the lyrics of a rap song.
There are other scenarios like that.

If you could write the lyrics of a rap song you'd be unintelligent to wait for luck to come across a pen because you might never come across a pen and therefore never get to write the lyrics of a rap song.

N.B. "Pen" includes any lyrics of a rap song writing device you might think of. And unless you are talking about spontaneously writing a rap song with no prior knowledge, practise nor experience, you would have required such a device while practising and learning to write rap songs, hence, luck would have had nothing to do with it because you would have spent time working hard to write a rap song and that work would have already included getting a pen to write with and paper to write it on.

The above is why you qualified with "to some extent". It's because you know what you are saying is false .

budaatum:

If you could write the lyrics of a rap song you'd be unintelligent to wait for luck to come across a pen because you might never come across a pen and therefore never get to write the lyrics of a rap song.

N.B. "Pen" includes any lyrics of a rap song writing device you might think of. And unless you are talking about spontaneously writing a rap song with no prior knowledge, practise nor experience, you would have required such a device while practising and learning to write rap songs, hence, luck would have had nothing to do with it because you would have spent time working hard to write a rap song and that work would have already included getting a pen to write with and paper to write it on.

The above is why you qualified with "to some extent". It's because you know what you are saying is false .

I used the word 'if' for a reason.
Besides,I don't have to spend money on a pen if I can simply pick it up from somewhere.
I said it's to an extent because some popular artistes like Eminem came across something bigger.
They have had bigger opportunities.

budaatum:

If you could write the lyrics of a rap song you'd be unintelligent to wait for luck to come across a pen because you might never come across a pen and therefore never get to write the lyrics of a rap song.

N.B. "Pen" includes any lyrics of a rap song writing device you might think of. And unless you are talking about spontaneously writing a rap song with no prior knowledge, practise nor experience, you would have required such a device while practising and learning to write rap songs, hence, luck would have had nothing to do with it because you would have spent time working hard to write a rap song and that work would have already included getting a pen to write with and paper to write it on.

The above is why you qualified with "to some extent". It's because you know what you are saying is false .

In addition to the other post, writing songs can involve as many as ten pens.
You may have to edit your songs before recording them for several reasons.

HellVictorinho:

In addition to the other post, writing songs will can involve as many as ten pens.
You will may have to edit your songs before recording them for several reasons.

The more reason why a rap song writer would not ever rely on luck to provide the pens.

HellVictorinho:

I used the word 'if' for a reason.
Besides,I don't have to spend money on a pen if I can simply pick it up from somewhere.
I said it's to an extent because some popular artistes like Eminem came across something bigger.
They have had bigger opportunities.

First know that if I had begun this conversation with you, I woud have first asked you to define 'luck', as experience of discussing with you has taught me, so, let me.

Luck is success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

You can indeed pick up pens from a pen factory or seller indeed, but you will definitely not be writing any worthwhile rap songs if you rely on picking one up from the floor unless you specifically go looking for pens in like a school for instance, and I would not call that luck, but "through one's own actions".

As for Eminem, ignoring his own actions in his success is insulting to him and moreso to yourself.

budaatum:

First know that if I had begun this conversation with you, I woud have first asked you to define 'luck', as experience of discussing with you has taught me, so, let me.

Luck is success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

You can indeed pick up pens from a pen factory or seller indeed, but you will definitely not be writing any worthwhile rap songs if you rely on picking one up from the floor unless you specifically go looking for pens in like a school for instance, and I would not call that luck, but "through one's own actions".

As for Eminem, ignoring his own actions in his success is insulting to him and moreso to yourself.

Off course, I won't depend on the floor.
But it's part of it.
There are bigger opportunities than that, anyway.
But I don't mind taking any advantage irrespective of the size.
Every opportunity to progress is important.

budaatum:

First know that if I had begun this conversation with you, I woud have first asked you to define 'luck', as experience of discussing with you has taught me, so, let me.

Luck is success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

You can indeed pick up pens from a pen factory or seller indeed, but you will definitely not be writing any worthwhile rap songs if you rely on picking one up from the floor unless you specifically go looking for pens in like a school for instance, and I would not call that luck, but "through one's own actions".

As for Eminem, ignoring his own actions in his success is insulting to him and moreso to yourself.

He said he couldn't have gotten anywhere without Dr.Dre.
What else

HellVictorinho:

He said he couldn't have gotten anywhere without Dr.Dre.
What else

And I am saying, picking up a pen from the floor will not make you a rap song writer! Eminem would not have been able to take advantage of picking Dr Dre off the floor if he had relied on by chance rather than through his own actions prior to Dr Dre.

Do let me know if we need to list (define) Eminem's efforts (and successes) prior to Dr Dre that contributed to his eventual immense success.

HellVictorinho:

At least,they exist in the heads of religious people.

Please know that buda is not discussing with "in the head of religious people" but specifically with the head of HellVictorinho. The reason being that it is buda's opinion that HellVictorinho is more, if not the only expert on the head of HellVictorinho, and much less an expert "in the head of religious people".

budaatum:

And I am saying, picking up a pen from the floor will not make you a rap song writer! Eminem would not have been able to take advantage of picking Dr Dre off the floor if he had relied on by chance rather than through his own actions prior to Dr Dre.

Do let me know if we need to list (define) Eminem's efforts (and successes) prior to Dr Dre that contributed to his eventual immense success.

Nah men, lets just wait for 50 million dollars to fall into our laps then we'll be immensely lucky!

budaatum:

And I am saying, picking up a pen from the floor will not make you a rap song writer! Eminem would not have been able to take advantage of picking Dr Dre off the floor if he had relied on by chance rather than through his own actions prior to Dr Dre.

Do let me know if we need to list (define) Eminem's efforts (and successes) prior to Dr Dre that contributed to his eventual immense success.

This post is unnecessary because I never said picking up a pen makes anyone a songwriter.
Also, Eminem should have remembered that he had made efforts before saying bla bla bla.
He said it!!!!!!!!!!
No be me talk am,ooooooo(Like Falz says)!!!
Go and remind him!!!!!!!!
Perhaps,he needs you to be his manager.

LordReed:


Nah men, lets just wait for 50 million dollars to fall into our laps then we'll be immensely lucky!

Have you not heard of illustrations before?
You're disappointing me!!!!

budaatum:


Please know that buda is not discussing with "in the head of religious people" but specifically with the head of HellVictorinho. The reason being that it is buda's opinion that HellVictorinho is more, if not the only expert on the head of HellVictorinho, and much less an expert "in the head of religious people".

You should know that the religions that involve Gods remain baseless to me.
Concerning others, I have heard many saying God is number one to them.

DeusXmachina:

...

Will continue later..

I intended on making an emphasis on this part earlier.

We are not inherently logical creatures, we are driven more by emotion, sentiment, intuition. While our minds are hardwired to create narratives about our ourselves and our reality.

But couldn't provided references and evidence to the extreme examples and cases I had in mind at the time to make my point.
So here they are.

Denial in stroke paralysis patients: There are some partially paralysed stroke patients that seem unable to recognize their condition. At first it seemed like they simply didn't want to acknowledge that they are paralysed because it would be devastating to them, however on a second examination, their inability to acknowledge their paralysis maybe coming from a neurological condition. Something like their brain just can't update the mental image of their body to their current physical reality.
And if you were ask them why they were not moving the paralysed part of their body their response was something like, "I'm not feeling like it", "I'm just resting it" or "this body part is not mine" rather than being upfront about their situation, and if their attention is carefully drawn to their condition they seem to understand it and accept it, and are emotionally devastated by it for a while and they return to their previous state of denial.
The point I'm trying to convey here is that these people are not actually lying about their condition, the theory is rather that they have brain damage, but their mind is still trying to create an explanation/narrative to why they are not moving their paralysed body part.

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/02/science/discovering-that-denial-of-paralysis-is-not-just-a-problem-of-the.html

Another extreme example are epilepsy patients that undergo Corpus Callosotomy (split brain surgery). The nerves connecting the right and left hemisphere of the brain are severed. While this cures the epilepsy, it creates some interesting after effects. Where information isn't properly shared between the two sides of brain. You end up having disconnected actions between sides of the body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv4K5aStdU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFgtGIL7vEY

For these type of patients, usually after they had some time and they've adapted to their new condition, the left hemisphere which is the speech center (and ego) usually dominates, and creates an explanation for any erratic behavior of their right hemisphere.
So, if say the left hand (which is controlled by the right hemisphere) suddenly moved on it's own and you asked the person why, they'll tell you something like "it was just an itch".

My conclusion and take away here is, the power of the brain to create narratives, even where it doesn't necessarily make sense, and how we may be all under the illusion that we understand ourselves.
(To what extent is who you are individually actually under your voluntary control and not just ticks that your mind explains away? For example why is your favorite type of music your favorite? Anyone can explain extensively what makes their favorite music great, but still doesn't really explain why they are attracted to it.)

Like the argument being had earlier about luck. If you've had a series of fortunate/unfortunate events happen to you in a day, you can't shake the feeling and thought as though the universe/God or something was responsible for it, even if it was just a series of random chances, the thoughts of maybe you are being punished/rewarded, or your just lucky/unlucky pop up into your mind. Like to create a narrative for why these events took place.


Sigh..
I've lost track of how I wanted to relate this back to the origin of religion mid typing, but I should remember it later.

HellVictorinho:

You should know that the religions that involve Gods remain baseless to me.

Of course I know. Every single word in quote to yours has had an insistence on that fact with a corrective emphasis. After all, a victor over hell must understand what he seeks victory over.

HellVictorinho:
Concerning others, I have heard many saying God is number one to them.

But we both know that religions that involve Gods remain baseless to you.

Homework

What does the above mean to HellVictorinho?

budaatum:

Of course I know. Every single word in quote to yours has had an insistence on that fact with a corrective emphasis. After all, a victor over hell must understand what he seeks victory over.


But we both know that religions that involve Gods remain baseless to you.

Homework

What does the above mean to HellVictorinho?

That refers to a task that involves addressing a particular topic,given to a student by his or her teacher, to be carried out at home.