mrakin: Mr Bidam, tell me you are a pastor and let us know your church so that we can pay our ten percent to you. You can even give us your bank account number.
Ole onijekuje

Christians are under the law Of love. We give God our best, not just money.

Some pastors no longer teach their congregation the most important aspects of the Christian obligations to God namely: love joy, peace, long-suffering, mildness, kindness,....
They prefer their members to use any means to get money so that they can pay large sum of money as tithe.
Have you noticed that rich people have special prayers from pastors and special seats in the church. Most pastors collect money before you can become a deacon or deaconess.
Where is my tooth brush Jare, I am tired of these tithe-hungry pastors.

My friend because something is abused by wolves in sheep clothing in Christianity doesn't mean it is not God's will and desire.Your argument and allegations you posted against me is even false and baseless to start with because no where in my post did i make mention of the above nor that Christians are commanded/forced to tithe. Everyone grows according to the level of scriptural insight and understanding God gave him,since this is an anonymous forum you re entitled to your opinions.The gospel God intends for us is a total package not for us to do one and neglect the other.Stay blessed.

lahchi:
I am sure you were also told this and have not studied to observe the difference between a Jew and a Gentile.
When Jesus said He came for both the Jew and the Gentile didn't that occur to you?
Using different versions of the Bible1)1(1) (NIV) Matthew 18:17 "If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
(2) (NKJV) Matthew 18:17 "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."
(3) (ASV) Matthew 18:17 "And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church: and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican."
Explaining futher, a Gentile is a person that is not under the Jewish Law and seen as a Sinner/Pagan by the Jews. So they are not the same.

Try make your point clearer.I don't get your point here sir.

lahchi:
Thank God you quoted this, was that the 3rd Year written there, that was a way tithe was said to have been paid and whoever practise the law of tithe should give that same way. But no to fill your pockets our of your selfish desire you make it a rule to be Every Sunday which is Not True.

And where did my post say you should give tithes every Sunday? I was trying to explain the the reason God instituted the tithes for the children of Israel. I never said tithing was lawful/mandatory/compulsory.
Anywhere i said the bolded pls feel free to bring it to my notice.
You can see i mentioned it as a principle used by the early church in distributions to widows in Acts 6.Don't forget the NT wasn't even compiled at that time.The book of Moses was what was preached in their churches.

Why can't Nigerians ask questions or think?
When your pastors want to buy a car/jet or acquire an asset they wash you with beautiful words backed up with verses. They tell you how important is it to give unto The Lord, tell you blessed is he that giveth and you are fully hypnotized to emptying your pockets with joy. Funny enough when you have your own problems they give you verses to read and instruct you to fast and pray, sly isn't? So if the method they offer you works so why don't they use it to solve their own problems?....no sentiments just think.

Religiouws laws Vegas XXI: of wisdom and money

“For wisdom is a defense as money is a defense, BUT the excellence of knowledge is that wisdom gives LIFE to those who have it” (Ecclesiastes 7: 12 NKJV)



I had relaxed writing on the state of the Church as it suggests that the more I do as well as others do, the more discouraged you get. I saw a Church service recording sent me by a friend yesterday and it made me cry. I just have to respond in my own way. Here is the short story.



A visiting minister hosted by a Church in a part of Nigeria came to town, and in the service preached on how to break the power of poverty. The service ended with the minister telling the congregation that “God Almighty” told him CLEARLY that people would break the hedge of poverty around them by putting DOLLARS on the stage. “God will break every influence of poverty over you if you drop money on the stage, actually God told me you have to give in dollars” his words said to the congregation that wears every evidence of lack, struggle and need for help on their faces.



True to life, people started dolling money around the minister’s shoes to move God in outmost sincerity of faith to have their situations changed for the better. That is the ridiculous state of what is called the Church now. I must say here though that the true Church has no such semblance in the first place. It will also be true to attest that such misrepresentation is rife and vast in all society of the world.



The effusive lies, the overly subtle casuistic reasoning, the deceptive simplicity with which many ministers drivel absolute unbiblical acts, teachings and doctrines has left us all in a bogus bubble of misunderstanding of who God is and how He works in the affairs of men. Men trusted with the message of hope now preach hopelessness with the caption of faith. Rapscallions are now the carriers of the message of freedom. Rogues and thieves are the custodian of the message of the cross of Christ. And in the midst of the grand deception, the nuancing nicety of presentation, the recruited naïve and gullible vast army of supporters that this popular erroneous message of prosperity has garnered over the years, it is expedient to state equivocally that the true Church is marching on quietly. It is not a Church without, but a movement within the hearts and souls of pious though imperfect men who knows and understands God in His works among men.



The corruption in politics is intrinsic, the corruption in societal interactions is expected, the corruption on the street is unavoidable and so is the corruption in our justice system not so much tongue tying. The corruption on the pulpit, in the house called after God, in the sanctuary of acclaimed redeemed, in the tabernacle of the body of our Lordship is astonishing, jolting and stupefying. The dimension it has now taken in the last 5 years is egregious, jarring and portentous to the general message of salvation.



Mahatma Ghandi said “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ”.



I just wondered what Ghandi would have said if alive today! In our society are many more Ghandis who would have loved to follow Christ and submit to His way but the bottleneck of hindrance are the greedy avaricious bunch of hellish Pastors who has turned the message of redemption to a message of money and lots of money.



Don’t tell me these thieves make it better!



Within these mega-temples are millions of abject poor families, within their walls are millions without jobs, in their midst are broken hearts and wounded souls who only seek to have God intervene in their plights. What they now get is the message that further puts them in misery. Somebody left Church and has this to say, “I became worse than I met them after four years. If it is the same Christ of the Bible that is in their midst it would not have taken four years to see my desperation for help. I counted my loss, and realized after a while I have been stolen from by men and not Christ”.



Every bad political crook, every street rascal, every public thief now finds a haven in many of these Churches. Nobody preaches salvation by repentance anymore because it is not crowd-friendly. Nobody asks a civil servant or politicians who puts huge money down for private jets the source of their wealth. They are often prayed over for more success!



Money is a defense; no doubt about it but the truth is that it does not give life. Money does not defend life. Money simply defend the rich against the poor, it defends the haves against innocence of the don’t haves. However, no amount of money can defend against the anger of the poor and the deprived.

Time is the difference!



Benjamin Franklin said this “Poverty wants some things, luxury many things, avarice all things”



Three stages of life in relation to money were silently discussed in that quote. The poor prays to have the means to meet their needs. The rich prays to have more luxury. The avaricious wants all things. When greed and lust takes its roots in man, the love of money becomes the principal demon driving his/her course of life. Satisfaction eludes them, happiness becomes a stranger, and their passion is always more and more without any end. There is always somebody to compete with, a record to break, and a new height of self to attain.



Isn’t appalling that the Church of Christ can be talking about the biggest Church in the world? Isn’t it preposterous that somebody is claiming to have the highest number of congregation in the world? Doesn’t it disturb you that people are talking about how vastly they are connected? Should the Church be talking about numbers of branches or the depth of devotion of the followers of Christ?



Don’t be fooled about the variations of their appearances. Some of them are so simple and subtle in presenting the same errors while others are very demanding and loquacious, and sometimes petulant. Some dress simple while others are regaled in robes of high custom brand names. The denominator is self and the nominator is certainly not God. Several direct messages are claimed t be from God promising to change every situation of people yet years in and out things are getting bad. The only testimony that keeps coming is from the pulpit owners.



William Wordsworth says “Rapine, avarice, expense. This is idolatry, and these we adore; Plain living and high thinking are no more”



The high road of vanity is the vogue now. Buy Church or corporate jets that is simply owned by one man is the prime. Build colleges and other institutions that only corruption can offer to afford. Disengage the poor but still ask for their money. Get so connected to the political pillagers and the excessively corrupt people in government and private sectors is what makes them thick. Ask yourself this question; would Elijah or Paul even care to sit with all these rogue ministers tend to seek to connect?



The lies on tithe, offerings, vows, special offerings etc are the instrument of their trade. They demand it, force it and threaten it. You either give it or get cursed! Wisdom has no place in their bosom anymore. The love of money is now the hidden ‘wisdom’ of their teachings. There are always new project after finished ones, and none has any direct bearing to care for the real needs of the people.



“He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, And He will pay back what he has given.” (Proverbs 19: 17 NKJV).



The above is my counsel in the midst of the confusion. Look for lives to bless with your means, do not give it to men of the belly on the pulpit again. Lend to God, but let it be from what you have earned from legitimate and fair dealings with men. You cannot rob men and mock God!



William Ellery Channing said and I quote “The lust of avarice has so totally seized upon mankind that wealth seems rather to possess them than they possess wealth”



Next time you see your Pastor, look at him and his material possessions and sincerely compare that with the poverty around your immediate environment and reason if the patriarchs of the Christian faith would have allowed that. I am not against been rich, but it is given for much more than your own needs. Every rich man is a custodian of the provisions for many around him/her.

Olumide Goodness Adeyinka can be reached at nigardgroup@yahoo.com

Bidam:
Paul says it is in the process of decay and is ready to vanish. He never categorically says it was abolished.

I don't understand the argument on whether the old covenant is in the process of decay. Bidam why are you holding on to something that is in the process of decay? you want it to decay completely before you move on abi?

Zikkyy:

I don't understand the argument on whether the old covenant is in the process of decay. Bidam why are you holding on to something that is in the process of decay? you want it to decay completely before you move on abi?

Why will you understand it when you read your bible like a newspaper.

Firstly i wasn't the one that says it is in the process of decay,it was Paul.The question you should have asked is why did Paul say so?

I very much disagree with goshen position in the sense that the Old was a type and shadow of the New. shadows fade they do not become extinct until we attain perfection. When perfection comes then the imperfect will disappear.

I stand to be corrected but i know for a fact that the Jews( who do not believe in Jesus) and some group of jewish christians still keep the 3 feasts of Israel.

Based on scriptural insight and understanding the passover feast typifies our born again experience.Has the passover feast become extinct in Israel? NO.

The pentecost typifies our baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as experienced by the Apostles during the pentecost feast which spans about 50days. It is rather sad and unfortunate that most Christians are against this experience and some have not come fully to the scriptural insight and knowledge of this.( my thread spoke volumes about this ignorance). Are the jews still celebrating this? YES.

The feast of tabernacle typifies cleansing perfection,dominion perfection,FULLNESS OF CHRIST,where the church should be perfected in LOVE,develop the fruits of the Spirit in such a way that God can now trust the church to pour out His Spirit without measure.(sadly the extreme teachings on prosperity,the abuse of prophetic types such as oil,handkerchiefs etc..has hindered this. The coza scandal is an example where the church has been looked down upon and ridiculed by the outside world and all this has hindered the manifestations of the sons of God.)
We are to be perfected collectively as a body(both jews and gentiles) not individually. The feast of tabernacle is still practiced by national Israel today.

This is a food for thought for the Spirit discerning Christians. Cheers.

Bidam:
Why will you understand it when you read your bible like a newspaper.

before nko? it's good to read the bible in a relaxed mood. abi you want make i pull shirt to read bible again

Bidam:
I very much disagree with goshen position in the sense that the Old was a type and shadow of the New. shadows fade they do not become extinct until we attain perfection. When perfection comes then the imperfect will disappear.

How do hope to achieve cleanliness when you keep wallowing in mud unless you let go of the things hindering your ability to attain perfection, you will only be deceiving ya self.

Bidam:
I stand to be corrected but i know for a fact that the Jews( who do not believe in Jesus) and some group of jewish christians still keep the 3 feasts of Israel.

Based on scriptural insight and understanding the passover feast typifies our born again experience.Has the passover feast become extinct in Israel? NO.

The pentecost typifies our baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues as experienced by the Apostles during the pentecost feast which spans about 50days. It is rather sad and unfortunate that most Christians are against this experience and some have not come fully to the scriptural insight and knowledge of this.( my thread spoke volumes about this ignorance). Are the jews still celebrating this? YES.

You see why some people dey call you judaizer. na burnt offering remain

Zikkyy:

before nko? it's good to read the bible in a relaxed mood. abi you want make i pull shirt to read bible again



How do hope to achieve cleanliness when you keep wallowing in mud unless you let go of the things hindering your ability to attain perfection, you will only be deceiving ya self.



You see why some people dey call you judaizer. na burnt offering remain

Let me kuku follow the sound advice of not teaching a pig to sing.It waste your time and annoys the pig.So long bro..

you Christians that believe so much in the law of Moses and the words of the Old testament, answer this questions

1. why do u do any form of work on the day u go to church? this includes cooking, washing plates, sweeping floor etc. even the healing ur pastor does in church is a sin in Jewish law
2. why do u not go to Israel and give ur tithe directly to a levite? abi ur pastor na Jew? talk-less of asking if hes from the tribe of levi
3. why do u let your wife close to u on the day u go to church?
4. why do u not stone an adulterous woman to death?
5. why do u not practice animal burnt sacrifice?
6. Catholics, why do u bow and pray before a craven Image?
7. Why not relocate to Israel and became a full Jew cause as u are now u are half-Jew and still considered a "gentile" by the Jews; who is sure to hell?

Everyone please dont listen to Lahchi.. Read Malachi 3:8

Emart: Everyone please dont listen to Lahchi.. Read Malachi 3:8

And what does Malachi 3:8 say?

Emart: Everyone please dont listen to Lahchi.. Read Malachi 3:8

Have you asked yourself if it was referring to the Israelites or Christians? Read Malachi 1:1

lahchi:
Have you asked yourself if it was referring to the Israelites or Christians? Read Malachi 1:1

If you keep on reading the bible with this kind of mindset, you will end up reading it like a storybook full of historical facts and philosophy.The bible is none of these,it is actually a spiritual book.

All scriptures from genesis to revelation is God's breathed and is profitable for teaching, rebuke,correction,instruction in righteousness that the Man of God may be thoroughly furnished and fully equipped.The book of malachi is no exception,there are principles and spiritual nuggets to be gleaned from it since Paul called us spiritual israelites

Malachi talks about the clarion call upon the people and the priests to renew their faithfulness to their covenant with God.Man is always unfaithful but God is ever faithful to His covenant between Him and his people.

Although we are no longer in the old covenant which is obsolete.The new covenant also requires renewal of our faithful-fulness to God,don't be deceived.And tithing is a proof of our faithfulness to God.

Bidam: If you keep on reading the bible with this kind of mindset, you will end up reading it like a storybook full of historical facts and philosophy.The bible is none of these,it is actually a spiritual book.

All scriptures from genesis to revelation is God's breathed and is profitable for teaching, rebuke,correction,instruction in righteousness that the Man of God may be thoroughly furnished and fully equipped.The book of malachi is no exception,there are principles and spiritual nuggets to be gleaned from it since Paul called us spiritual israelites

Malachi talks about the clarion call upon the people and the priests to renew their faithfulness to their covenant with God.Man is always unfaithful but God is ever faithful to His covenant between Him and his people.

Although we are no longer in the old covenant which is obsolete.The new covenant also requires renewal of our faithful-fulness to God,don't be deceived.And tithing is a proof of our faithfulness to God.

if that's the case why don't u people read quran? Abi quran is not a spiritual book?

macof: if that's the case why don't u people read quran? Abi quran is not a spiritual book?

Refer your question to your islamic section.On this section you must be born again before we can discuss spiritual issues.

Bidam: Refer your question to your islamic section.On this section you must be born again before we can discuss spiritual issues.

simple question this one cant answer

Pastor Kun:
Why can't Nigerians ask questions or think?
When your pastors want to buy a car/jet or acquire an asset they wash you with beautiful words backed up with verses. They tell you how important is it to give unto The Lord, tell you blessed is he that giveth and you are fully hypnotized to emptying your pockets with joy. Funny enough when you have your own problems they give you verses to read and instruct you to fast and pray, sly isn't? So if the method they offer you works so why don't they use it to solve their own problems?....no sentiments just think.

Don't read the bible based on what you are been told but based on the intention of the message... A simple question, where was it recorded that the Early Christians paid tithe?

Bidam: If you keep on reading the bible with this kind of mindset, you will end up reading it like a storybook full of historical facts and philosophy.The bible is none of these,it is actually a spiritual book.

All scriptures from genesis to revelation is God's breathed and is profitable for teaching, rebuke,correction,instruction in righteousness that the Man of God may be thoroughly furnished and fully equipped.The book of malachi is no exception,there are principles and spiritual nuggets to be gleaned from it since Paul called us spiritual israelites

Malachi talks about the clarion call upon the people and the priests to renew their faithfulness to their covenant with God.Man is always unfaithful but God is ever faithful to His covenant between Him and his people.

Although we are no longer in the old covenant which is obsolete.The new covenant also requires renewal of our faithful-fulness to God,don't be deceived.And tithing is a proof of our faithfulness to God.

Question 1
Where was it said that tithing is a proof of Christians faithfulness to God?
Question 2
Where was it said that part of the old law was abolished and not the whole law?
Question 3
What is the purpose of the Old testament? (Bible reference please)

lahchi:

Question 1
Where was it said that tithing is a proof of Christians faithfulness to God?
Question 2
Where was it said that part of the old law was abolished and not the whole law?
Question 3
What is the purpose of the Old testament? (Bible reference please)

Another question
Is tithing an African obligation of is it part of the traditions of your tribe?

And where did my post say you should give tithes every Sunday? I was trying to explain the the reason God instituted the tithes for the children of Israel. I never said tithing was lawful/mandatory/compulsory.
Anywhere i said the bolded pls feel free to bring it to my notice.
You can see i mentioned it as a principle used by the early church in distributions to widows in Acts 6.Don't forget the NT wasn't even compiled at that time.The book of Moses was what was preached in their churches.

Now you are totally wrong about that fact saying: THE BOOK OF MOSES WAS PREACHED because of the unavailability of the bible... Have u forgotten the purpose of the Holy Spirit? The HS came to direct and guide them to all truth so please remove that notion that they stuck to the teachings of the book of Moses.. If you are still in doubt about this fact, ask yourself why we are not under the law anymore but under grace?
On the other hand tithe is a LAW and a COMPULSORY payment which has never been of choice that's. one of the purpose for which the book of Malachi was written, 1:1- The burden of the Lord to Israel (Not Christians) by Malachi...