Ray McBlue:

Lol! I knew that, but it takes the Sun 225 million years to complete a full orbit, which makes it extremely slow. Not all astronomers agree with the theory, btw.

But according to the Quran, Sun and the moon's orbit causes day and night. Qurans remains wrong in that context.

1. Thank God you knew that and you're agreeing to the fact, but yes it is very slow. VERY SLOW still remains it does. If some astronomers don't agree to the theory, it scientifically renders it hypothetical which only first has to be confirmed in the scientific world. The Qur'an maintain its stance.

2. I'll like to deny that the Qur'an claims we have day and night because they orbit. According to your posts, your are assuming that stance because 'day and night' occurs concurrently with 'moon and sun' orbiting in many verses of the Qur'an... But this is it (my thought though)...

The Qur'an possesses several values, which includes the scientific (as you'd confirm @least in some areas) and poetic or do I call it literary...the occurrence of 'day and night' with that of 'moon and sun' is mostly as a satisfaction of the literary value portrait. Just like you hear in several limericks or lyrics; "wherever I GO, whatever I SEE". The two words 'go' and 'see' occur together mostly in the english literary genre but it doesn't mean that going always determines seeing.

Therefore, in the arabic context, which is the best point of view, it suits the literary portrait and not the scientific. Thanks.

As salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Jazakallahu khairan to u all who are refuting. Ray McBlue u are welcome to challenge the Qur'an. Ray stop dragging issue of the orbit of the sun, it a universal fact today whether slow or fast the main point is that it does. Next quetion please.

golpen:
1. Thank God you knew that and you're agreeing to the fact, but yes it is very slow. VERY SLOW still remains it does. If some astronomers don't agree to the theory, it scientifically renders it hypothetical which only first has to be confirmed in the scientific world. The Qur'an maintain its stance.

In a corporeal world, standing on the earth, the Sun seems to move, in fact, Quran actually believed that the Sun sets in a muddy spring.

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the
traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

That verse clearly proved that in the Quranic context, movement of the Sun(orbit) is very noticeable indeed and surely couldn't be the same one that science is talking about.

And please don't give me the symbolic representation crap.

golpen: 2. I'll like to deny that the Qur'an claims we have day and night because they orbit. According to your posts, your are assuming that stance because 'day and night' occurs concurrently with 'moon and sun' orbiting in many verses of the Qur'an... But this is it (my thought though)...

The verse pitted the Moon and the Sun together in a 'floating orbit'. One can only assume that their respective orbits contrasted the other, thus causing day and night.

golpen: The Qur'an possesses several values, which includes the scientific (as you'd confirm @least in some areas) and poetic or do I call it literary...the occurrence of 'day and night' with that of 'moon and sun' is mostly as a satisfaction of the literary value portrait. Just like you hear in several limericks or lyrics; "wherever I GO, whatever I SEE". The two words 'go' and 'see' occur together mostly in the english literary genre but it doesn't mean that going always determines seeing.

There you go using the infamous symbolic representation excuse! You might as well say that Allah wasn't being literal when he recorded that he created heaven and earth.

golpen: Therefore, in the arabic context, which is the best point of view, it suits the literary portrait and not the scientific. Thanks.

That is you owning up that the verse is scientifically incorrect, right?

khattab02: As salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Jazakallahu khairan to u all who are refuting. Ray McBlue u are welcome to challenge the Qur'an. Ray stop dragging issue of the orbit of the sun, it a universal fact today whether slow or fast the main point is that it does. Next quetion please.

Allekum Salam.

There is orbit and there is ORBIT. Moon floats in an orbit around the earth while Earth floats in an ORBIT around the Sun. One is relatively fast, while the other is exceedingly slow. One have a short term effect, one has a lasting effect.

Which one was the Quran talking about? Until that is clarified, I will continue to drag the issue. Thanks.

Ray McBlue:

Quran 36: 40 It is not for Sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night
outstrip the day. They float each in an
orbit.

The bold hinted on the possibility. According to the verse, Sun moves in a orbit, and since the moon, orbits around earth, one would then naturally assume that the Sun does the same, since the verse said "they float each in an orbit" translated in plain English as "they each move in their respective orbits" Scientifically it's incorrect. Sun doesn't orbit.

You are still not getting it.Allah says in Surah Yasin 36:40- La alshshamsu yanbaghee laha an tudrika alqamara wala allaylu sabiqu alnnahari wakullun fee falakin yasbahoona
It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day.They all float,each in an orbit.

The sun is rotating on its own axis,nowhere does the Quran says the sun orbits,it says the sun is in its own orbit.What's the definition of orbit? As defined by Collins Dictionary,Orbit is a field of influence.You are using orbit as a verb instead of a noun.The sun is in its own orbit rotating on its axis.Is that clear?

I have heard a lot of Christians make excuses in similar nature as yours. It's known as allegory(a symbolic representation). They only use it when they are cornered. I would assume the same of you, until you come up with more intelligent explanation, thanks.




Exactly.

I'm not cornered.....Peace

When I told you to post contradictions,obviously u didn't listen to what I warned you of...u see,unlike other religious scriptures,revelations in the Qur'an comes as matters needing it arises and by God's grace u have so muc h helped the Qur'an because even a two year old will know there's no contradiction in this things. 1. Creation of the earth...u should know that yawm/ayam can mean day/period...so its not a 24hrs period...Now God said in the first verse..."I created the heaven and the earth in 7 days and in the other verses,he said "I created the earth in 2 day...what's the contradiction in that...reference): I wrote Jamb for 4 hours...I wrote english for an hour.How that a contradiction 2. About the stars...Obviously u don't believe in God,So I wouldn't use a method of proving to u that this is an heavenly course...but I'll do this in a reasonable manner..often we see star-like material falling...and we'd say WOW!!! That's somesone's star,well,the star is as big as this earth and it would crush us if it were to fall...the stars we often see fall are those Allah described in the Holy Qur'an.How marvelous is my scripture...Allah said in the holy Qur'an "If the whole of mankind were to be supported by jinns...they couldn't produce the like of the Qur'an"....what greater majesty is there...3.u see,when u try to contradict the qur'an..u only help it more..about the the Sun and the Moon...The Qur'an,revealed 1434yrs ago when no 1 had gone to space is telling u that the moon and the sun is in its own orbit and it swim as do every object in the galaxy,A fact just know to man not more than 100yrs ago...not after the first,second,third or fourth visit but after countless visit and researchs...Yet,this had been reaveled to a man in the sandy desert,not learned nor educated...Allahu Akbar

jazakallahu khairan lanrexlan was just about to give him the reply. What people like Roy McBlue fail to realise is that Arabic language is not like other languages. One word in Arabic could mean several things. If u don't know the Arabic word how will you know whether the meaning applicable is correct or not?

pertaining to Qur'an 18: 86, that ' Zulqarnain sees the sun setting in murky water in turbid water', Imagine sun setting in murky water, unscientific. The Arabic word used here is 'wajada' it means it appeared to Zulqarnain. Allah subhanawataala is describing what appeared to Zulqarnain. Point No.2 . The Arabic word used is 'magrib' it can be used for time as well as place. When we say 'sunset' sunset can be for time. If I say ' the sunset set at 7 p.m ' I am using it for time. If I say the 'sun sets in the west' it means I am taking it for place. So here if we use the word 'magrib' for time. So Zulqarnain did not reach that place of sunset used as time, he reached at the time of sun set.

The rest of your post is incomprehensible, so I will only treat the below.

dareabiola98: The Qur'an,revealed 1434yrs ago when no 1 had gone to space is telling u that the moon and the sun is in its own orbit and it swim as do every object in the galaxy,A fact just know to man not more than 100yrs ago...not after the first,second,third or fourth visit but after countless visit and researchs...Yet,this had been reaveled to a man in the sandy desert,not learned nor educated...Allahu Akbar

A Ten year old will tell you that the Sun do move, when asked. Why? To a physical eye, the Sun motion is visible, which is merely an illusion. But to the uninitiated, the motion is as real as the color of your skin. Therefore, early astrologers were able to deduced incorrectly that the Sun orbits around earth by following it's flight path as it seemingly make it's journey from east to West everyday. Any ordinary man with without any scientific help would easily make the same mistake. But it's what was evident before your naked eyes, right? This sentiment continued for centuries until it was eventually refuted by Galileo.

So how exactly did Allah came into this, again?

What's your point, really?

You know what, guys? Let's just move on. Treat my other post, if you can.

Ray McBlue: You know what, guys? Let's just move on. Treat my other post, if you can.

Sire,all your pots have been treated.....Peace

lanrexlan: Sire,all your pots have been treated.....Peace

When? The only one I remembered that made a semblance of sense was the first one that goldpen helped clarified.

So which other ones were you referring to?

Further more, if u say 'no no, it is not appeared to.. It is actually this.' let us analyze it further. The Qur'anic verse says... The sun set in murky water. Now we know, when we use these words like ' sunrise' and 'sunset' does the sunrise? Scientifically, sun does not rise neither does the sun set. We know scientifically that the sun does not set at all. It is rotation of the earth which gives rise to sunrise and sunset. But yet we read in everyday papers mentioning, sunrise at 6 a.m. Sun sets at 7.00 p.m. Oh! The papers are wrong, unscientific!. We call a person lunatic ' he is mad.' what is the meaning of 'lunatic'? It means 'struck by the moon' but that is how the language has evolved. Similarly sun rise, actually it is just a usage of words. Allah has given the guidance for the human beings also. He uses so, that we understand. So it is just 'sunset' not that it is actually setting, not that sun is actually rising. So the verse of qur'an 18:86 is not in contradiction with the established science. That is how people speak.

I know where you are going with this, to you it's a metaphor. Ordinary, I would have no problem agreeing with you on that, except, I will no sooner start questioning everything else in the holy Quran. Which one is metaphor and which one is real? Quran's credibility will come under attack.

Ray McBlue:

When? The only one I remembered that made a semblance of sense was the first one that goldpen helped clarified.

So which other ones were you referring to?

Tbaba has clarified most of your posts,we aren't here to convince and it's not a must you accept our answers.....Peace

lanrexlan: Tbaba has clarified most of your posts,we aren't here to convince and it's not a must you accept our answers.....Peace

well said lanrexlan, Jazakallahu khairan. It is not must, but Alhamdulillah we are refuting the claims.

lanrexlan: Tbaba has clarified most of your posts,we aren't here to convince and it's not a must you accept our answers.....Peace

Then what's the point of all this then? What's the point of this thread. What's the point of your contributing? How do you expect me to see things in your perspective, if you don't go the extra mile?

Ray McBlue:

Then what's the point of all this then? What's the point of this thread. What's the point of your contributing? How do you expect me to see things in your perspective, if you don't go the extra mile?

We give the answers in the clearest manner,with logical reasoning and proofs.We deliver the message and Allah gives guidance.....Peace

lanrexlan: We give the answers in the clearest manner,with logical reasoning and proofs.We deliver the message and Allah gives guidance.....Peace

Then indulge me by providing the answers in the clearest manner as possible. This is what tbaba failed to do.

Ray McBlue:

Then indulge me by providing the answers in the clearest manner as possible. This is what tbaba failed to do.

we have given you already na . Were you sleeping or didn't read some post? Tbaba only said he got no time to continue. Next alleged contradiction.

Ray McBlue:

In a corporeal world, standing on the earth, the Sun seems to move, in fact, Quran actually believed that the Sun sets in a muddy spring.

Quran 18: 86 Till, when he (the
traveller Zul-qarnain) reached the setting-place of the Sun, he found it going down into a muddy spring…

That verse clearly proved that in the Quranic context, movement of the Sun(orbit) is very noticeable indeed and surely couldn't be the same one that science is talking about.

And please don't give me the symbolic representation crap.





The verse pitted the Moon and the Sun together in a 'floating orbit'. One can only assume that their respective orbits contrasted the other, thus causing day and night.



There you go using the infamous symbolic representation excuse! You might as well say that Allah wasn't being literal when he recorded that he created heaven and earth.



That is you owning up that the verse is scientifically incorrect, right?

Now you're making me to feel that your argument is based on your personal interpretation. If you call this a symbolic representation crap, then the earlier you agreed to was just a numerical summation crap too. I don't know how more to convince you, so I'd better be off on this particular case, if you keep making up some symbolic vocabulary on an issue simple english would have solved...thanks.

My Beautiful Muslim brothers and Sisters....For Allah,I love you all so much...I argued with a christian one day and after I showed him over 4000 contradictions in the bible,he brought out a quranic verse and he said "look here,it says here that God saved noah's family...and it says in another verse that his son was part of the destroyed..And I started weeping..I couldn't help but weep,how could a man be shown truth yet he strays the wrong path...I explained to him though and he agreed so much with me but watch the words that came out of his mouth 'I know islam is a complete religion and way of life but I just can't do it' Fiction in shambles

Whatever the Qur'an says that Man doesn't believe in...Its probably because he doesn't have utmost knowledge or ways of knowing of it now but there is utmost truth in it.So many people(of makkah) who were against Muhammad(saw) were happy when he came with the verse that the earth is GEOSPHERICAL...people were like 'yea...we've got him,the earth is flat,we should have faced upside down at a point if it were to be spherical...but what a time was it then(Jahiliyyah)..time of ignorance but then it was revealed to the prophet for those who would come to be aware of that fact

I'll show you over 20 scientific fact that couldn't have been known 1434 year ago....there thousands of them but go with this

Ride on dareabiola98. We and Allah subhanawataala are with you. Jazakallahu khairan.

1..The Glorious Quran [1] declares that the earth is:

1- Spherical.
2- Suspended in Space.
3- Rotating around itself. (emphasis on dahaha and its derivatives)
4- Is traveling in Space. With acceptance and confirmation from university of oxford,havard,leichester and brown....I guess u've quoted those verses,so I don't need reqouting. 2.  
The Shooting Stars (Shahab) Quran Miracle is confirmed by Science!  This is indeed one of the Glorious Quran's Top Stunning Miracles!  The Gamma Ray Bursts and Cosmic Jets affirm to the Truth of Noble Verse 67:5...accepted by various research in stitutions and even u can see it,I'm sure u joked about it wen u were young.."Hey! See a falling star'. 3.What forms in the embryo first, the muscles or the bones?  (Sex is determined by the male's sperm is mentioned explicitly in the Glorious Quran!) And the shape of the embryo...obviously muhammed didn't study embroyology,and if he did,did he study oceanography and it is seen as the qur'an touches every aspect of science...u can google this lecturer Professor Tejatat Tejasen whom his book is now been read by medical students was confronted by a sheik and he said to him...embryology had been explained in the qur'an 1400+ years ago but he said it was impossible,he was shown this verse.. We made him as a drop in a place of settlement, firmly fixed.  Then We made the drop into an alaqah (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then We made the alaqah into a mudghah (chewed substance)…” (Quran 23:12-14) he replied...this isn't right,I have done all all the reserch there is to do..and morover how does the ebryo leech-like and he checked and it was actually leech-like...he said and I qoute 'How wonderful,I have studied all the verses in the qur'an on embryology and they are all correct..professor Moore saw this and pronounced the shaadah(I believe Muhammad is a messanger of God..u hold on to science like it know anything...tons of scientist are joining Islam day by day

QUR'AN ON THE DEEP SEA & INTERNAL WAVES. “Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea.  It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds.  Darknesses, one above another.  If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it....” (Quran 24:40). GThis verse mentions the darkness found in deep seas and oceans, where if a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it.  The darkness in deep seas and oceans is found around a depth of 200 meters and below.  At this depth, there is almost no light (see figure 1).  Below a depth of 1000 meters there is no light at all.[1]  Human beings are not able to dive more than forty meters without the aid of submarines or special equipment.  Human beings cannot survive unaided in the deep dark part of the oceans, such as at a depth of 200 metersod has said in the Quran: and it is seen that Waves are formed on every layer in the deep dark sea....Google about the Sea to confirm this.....I started with this

THE QUR'AN ON OCEANS AND SEAS . Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them.  This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.[1]  For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water.  When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier. The qur'an had stated this over 1400years ago “He has set free the two seas meeting together.  There is a barrier between them.  They do not transgress.” (Quran 55:19-20) And When Allah spoke about the sea(Fresh and Salt Water) But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier.  God has said in the Quran:

“He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter.  And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.” (Quran 25:53). And science just added not long ago,the HALOCLINE to most school curicullum which had been revealed 1400+yrs ago......Allahu Akbar

ORIGIN OF LIFE. Water is essential for all living things.  We all know that water is vital to life but the Quran makes a very unusual claim:

We made every living thing from water? Will they not believe? (Quran 21:30)

In this verse water is pointed out as the origin of all life.  All living things are made of cells.  We now know that cells are mostly made up of water.  For example, 80% of the cytoplasm (basic cell material) of a standard animal cell is described as water in biology textbooks.

The fact that living things consist mostly of water was discovered only after the invention of the microscope.  In the deserts of Arabia, the last thing someone would have guessed is that all life came from water.

SKY'S PROTECTION The sky plays a crucial role in protecting the earth.  The sky protects the earth from the lethal rays of the sun.  If the sky did not exist then the sun’s radiation would have killed off all life on earth.  It also acts like a blanket wrapped around the earth, to protect it from the freezing cold of space.  The temperature just above the sky is approximately -270oC.  If this temperature was to reach earth then the planet would freeze over instantly.  The sky also protects life on earth by warming the surface through heat retention (greenhouse effect), and reducing temperature extremes between day and night[5].  These are some of the many protective functions of the sky.

The Quran asks us to consider the sky in the following verse:

“We made the sky a protective ceiling.  And yet they are turning away from Our signs!” (Quran 21:32)

The Quran points to the sky’s protection as a sign of God.  The protective properties of the sky were discovered by scientific research conducted in the 20th century.

MOUNTAINS The Quran draws our attention to a very important characteristic of mountains:

“Did We not make the earth a resting place? And the mountains as stakes?” (Quran 78:6-7)

The Quran indicates that mountains have deep roots by using the word stakes to describe them.  In fact mountains do have deep roots, and the word stakes is an accurate description for them.  A book titled ‘Earth’ by Geophysicist Frank Press explains that mountains are like stakes, and are buried deep under the surface of the earth. Mount Everest (pictured below), the height of which is approximately 9 km above ground, has a root deeper than 125 km.

The fact that mountains have deep ‘stake’ like roots was not known, until after the development of the theory of plate tectonics in the beginning of the 20th century.