Ubenedictus: i can't find my copy of code of canon law so i,ll make use of the CCC.

[b]1782 man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. ''he must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters''
1800 a human being must alway follow the certain judgement of his conscience[\b]

is this not exactly what the pope told the atheist? Is this not the true teachings of the catholic church?
Why then are you saying the popes word is heresy? Or do you reject the teaching of the church as written in the cathechism?

elampiro:

[b]The conscience is already there, being an atheist already means you have not used your conscience correctly to seek the truth. An atheist has already formed a dead conscience and sees- 'nothing wrong with use of contraceptives' 'nothing wrong with abortion' 'nothing wrong with homosexuality' 'nothing wrong with sex outside marriage' 'believes it is good to retaliate' 'believes it is good to kill your enemy'. So should an atheist follow his conscience, what he sees to be good will not be influenced by the commandments of God.

The bible said we should seek God first. And the bible said no man can see the Father except through Jesus. The bible said we should go yee and baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

My loyalty is first to Jesus, then to His world in the bible and to the tradition of the Church. Any head of church who teaches contrary to these I have mentioned is not worthy of my loyalty.


****** You have also implied that should the Pope teaches errors everyone is bind by church rules to follow him even if the Pope denies Jesus. And that not even the cardinals can call him to order or remove him. Can we now say that Martin Luther was justified to have left the church? Remember we had bad Popes in the past.

Always weigh the implication of your comments. So the Pope should be a dictator?

The changes that are coming, when they come and should the divinity of Jesus be denied, I will do everything to remove everyone that comes my way from the back of Bergoglio. The scripture came before the Church. Jesus is the reason there is a church, and not any Pope [/b]

Ubenedictus: the teachings of the church says everyman must be allowed to follow his conscience. Do you agree or disagree? Simple question

elampiro:

That is CCC, not Canon law. Canon law and the doctors of the church does not hold that belief. Refer to the article and video I posted earlier.

So are you saying when the Pope teaches antigospel I should obey him?

elampiro:


Why did he not invite to Jesus Christ?

He said atheist who do good are saved. Then he said they should follow their conscience.

Why is he not preaching Jesus to them?

elampiro:

Bergoglio direct confrontation with Benedict on the Old Latin mass was an act of disobedience. That is what I referred to.

elampiro:

The teaching of the church was only trying to teach against force conversion, like punishing people for their faith. It didn't say we shouldn't preach Jesus to unbelievers, neither did it say we should just tell them they are fine without Jesus.


Wait o, hope it is not what I am thinking? I am beginning to wonder why you people have been arguing passionately in favour of gays and lesbians. I remember Syncan was jubilating when he managed to find a single CCC portion that supported homo. hmmm.

I beginning to see you guys from another angle now. Why have I been wasting my time?



Finally, are you saying that the teaching of the church said we shouldn't preach Jesus to unbelievers and that we should allow them follow their (pagan formed) consciences?

elampiro: [b]]Pope Francis has not taught in line with CCC and tradition.

The CCC never said people should not constantly preach against homosexuality, abortion and contraceptives. How can anyone say preaching is too much?

The CCC never said we should tell that pagans are fine without Jesus.

The CCC never said this: "It is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person (unbelievers)"- Pope Francis.

The CCC never said we should go to confession and not ask of forgiveness of our sins but to hand over our sins to Jesus while promising Him to sin again. This statement by Pope Francis is just directly opposite to the confession fomular, act of contrition and the I confess to 'Almighty God'. The confession is through our most grievous fault and a promise never to sin again.

The CCC did not rubbish the previous Popes and members of the curia.


I have given up on you people for your notorious ways of defending the obvious anticatholic and antichristian teachings of Pope Francis. You people are used to "this is what the Pope really said". Helping the Pope to be Pope. You people love the Pope more than the Church and the gospel of Jesus. I will rather defend the gospel of Jesus than follow lies. [/b]

Ubenedictus: my traditional latin mass tomorrow starts by 8am.
Goodnite

elampiro:

It looks like you are a priest?

elampiro: 10/ 5/2013

Cardinals deny that Bergoglio hesitated in accepting his election as Pope



Cardinals at the conclave deny that Bergoglio hesitated and left the Sistine Chapel to reflect before accepting his election”, as reported in the Scalfari interview



Gerard O’Connell
Rome

Cardinals have categorically denied that Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio hesitated in accepting his election as Pope, according to Father Thomas Rosica, who was assistant to the Director of the Holy See’s Press Office, Fr Federico Lombardi, for the Anglophone media during the Conclave and has continued informally in that role since.

In a briefing note to English speaking media, October 5, Rosica sought to respond to concerns expressed by journalists regarding “the ‘conflation’ of facts, details, and sequence of events” in Eugenio Scalfari “interview” with Pope Francis which was published in the Italian daily, La Repubblica, on October 1. He did so after contacting reliable sources.

He recalled that while Fr. Lombardi, “has attested to the overall ‘trustworthiness’ of the Scalfari interview”, questions continued to be raised by journalists about “some minor, imprecise details” in that interview, and in particular regarding Pope Francis’s “hesitation in accepting the election to the papacy” and his “so-called ‘mystical experience’, on the night of his election to the Papacy, March 13, 2013.

Rosica noted that Eugenio Scalfari, 89, “did not tape his interview with Pope Francis, nor did he take notes, so the text was an after-the-fact reconstruction.” He pointed out that “such texts run the risk of either missing some key details or conflating various moments or events recounted during the oral interview.” He acknowledged, however, that Scalfari “has stated that he showed the text to Francis for his approval” but, he said, “it’s not clear how closely the Pope read it.”

In any case, Rosica said, “Cardinals who witnessed the events have categorically stated that the newly elected Pope never left the Sistine chapel for a period of reflection before finally accepting the papacy other than his entering the “Room of tears” for vesting. There was never any indication of hesitation, a need for serious reflection on the election that had taken place, or rethinking what had befallen him! ”

It is significant that Rosica speaks of “cardinals” in the plural, meaning more than one had been consulted. In a separate report also published on October 5 on the US Catholic weekly, the National Catholic Reporter, John L. Allen reports that Cardinal Timothy Dolan, in an interview, also denied the story that Cardinal Bergoglio hesitated in accepting his election as Pope. Dolan said Francis accepted immediately and then left the Sistine Chapel to vest in ‘the room of tears’

As for the so-called “mystical moment” of Pope Francis which Scalfari presents in the interview, Father Rosica believes “this is most probably referring to the moment of prayer in the Pauline Chapel.”

He revealed how “that moment is clearly explained in an exclusive interview” given by Monsignor Dario Viganò, the Director of the Vatican Television Centre, to Canada’s ‘Salt and Light TV’ in June 2013. The interview will be broadcast in Canada this Sunday evening, October 6, and in it Mgr. Vigano “tells what transpired in the Pauline Chapel as Pope Francis prayed before walking with his brother Cardinals to the loggia for his first appearance to the world.”

http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/the-vatican/detail/articolo/francesco-francis-francisco-28373/

Ubenedictus: what does this prove?

elampiro:

I can sense some cracking in loyalty. .

elampiro: I heard you very well.

I guess you read in that interview published that the Pope personally proof read the report before it was published.

Syncan:

I have told you severally to stop saying what is not. Is this not what you posted?

"Rosica noted that Eugenio Scalfari, 89, “did not tape his interview with Pope Francis, nor did he take notes, so the text was an after-the-fact reconstruction.” He pointed out that “such texts run the risk of either missing some key details or conflating various moments or events recounted during the oral interview.” He acknowledged, however, that Scalfari “has stated that he showed the text to Francis for his approval” but, he said, “it’s not clear how closely the Pope read it.”"

elampiro:

You obviously did not read the original interview where it was stated categorically that the Pope read the report before it was published.

If this paper had at any time previously misquoted Pope Francis in the previous controversial interview, would he had granted another to them?

Let's not embellish the obvious.