elampiro:

It is good to pray, but I can guess there was no amount of prayers that was going to stop Judas from betraying Jesus. The Church is being betrayed and you are part of those defending this process.

The Catholic church as we know it, is about to climb its Calvary. But the days of resurrection are not far off after the trials and separation.

Ubenedictus: a valid conclave can produce a bad pope but a valid conclave cannot produce an antipope. Calling francis an antipope actually means you are in schism, and practically excommunicated.

Syncan:


Trying to shut you? Lol, Italo said you must be aiming at making us laugh, you must be thinking highly of yourself. Catholic Church no longer catholic? I thought it is inevitable according to your beliefs.

Syncan:


No authentic Catholic Teaching or Message ever said I should call an elected Pope, an anti-Pope, especially when he has done nothing to deserve it. The shepherd is doing his work, calling on the lost sheep to come home, yet you decide to allow the devil deceive you into Schism. I wonder what you do when prayer for the Pope is intoned, or do you not pray for the pope? When he requested for prayer at the verge of USA invasion of Syria, I joined and you probably did not. On the 13th of October, the Pope will be consecrating the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I will be starting my novena soon in preparation for the day, you probably don't care. You are already out my friend, the devil must be happy with you.

elampiro:

The Pope summoned Our Lady to his court at Vatican instead of going to pay homage to her at Fatima.

An elected Pope indeed! You will soon realized something. You just wait.

elampiro:

There can be only one Pope until a Pope dies. Don't listen to lies.

Syncan:

You don't consider the above statement a lie?

italo: @ Elampiro,

Any new gist tonite?

Pope Francis must have taught heresy at morning mass today...or hasnt he?

You mind sharing with us?

elampiro:

There can be only one Pope until a Pope dies. Don't listen to lies.

elampiro:

The Pope summoned Our Lady to his court at Vatican instead of going to pay homage to her at Fatima.

An elected Pope indeed! You will soon realized something. You just wait.

Ubenedictus: until a pope dies or retires, just as celestine v retired and gregory retired.
There is only one person wearing the crown of peter and that is his holiness pope francis, he is the bishop of rome the successor of st peter.

Benedict has retired he said 'with clarity of mind...i hereby renounce the ministry of st peter.'
canon law and the tradition of the catholic church is very clear with a pope retires he ceases to be pope and a new pope must be elected.
When celestine retired a new pope was elected and the church continued, when gregory retired a new pope was elected and the church continued, my beloved benedict has retired and francis is now pope, if you refuse to agree to that then you are guilty of sedecanventism, you are in schism and you should abstain from the eucharist. The mass you attend is even celebrated 'in union with francis our pope' yet you say you are a catholic.
I usually attend tradentine/vatican1 mass and even the priest say the tradentine mass in union with pope francis.
There is a difference between been a traditionalist and a sedecanventist, you have crossed the line and have incured excommunication.

Ubenedictus: is mary sleeping at fatima Or how come mary can hear me where i am but she can hear the pope in the vatican so the pope must go to fatima?

elampiro:

Where is the letter? Pope Francis' enforcer. You cannot threaten me to accept lies as truth.

Pope Francis has crossed the line by refusing to acknowledge the divinity of Jesus.

I have told you to wait and see.

elampiro: The world war 3 to be fought is what the one world people will use to usher in the Antichrist because he will end the war temporary and he will be seen as a man of peace. A man never seen before.

All these while Obama was making noise about Syria, Jesus had already told John Leary and another visionary far ahead that the war wasn't going to start yet, it was in vain they were making noise. The one world people knew what they are doing. They are checkmating the world in a very mighty deceits.

The war will surely come, but the one world people will use it to their advantage.

You guys shouldn't be so naïve.

elampiro:

Why did the Pope summon the Fatima statue to Vatican?

elampiro:

Just wait, the official pronouncements will come soon. The divinity of Jesus will be denied and the one world religion formed. The Eucharist will be said to be a sign of fellowship and not the body and blood of Christ.

elampiro:

Where is the letter? Pope Francis' enforcer. You cannot threaten me to accept lies as truth.

Pope Francis has crossed the line by refusing to acknowledge the divinity of Jesus.

I have told you to wait and see.

italo: @ Ube, you actually spent your energy to make that explanation?

You have a good heart...but this one only believes whatever seems to him to portray Francis in bad light. Even if its a lie.

elampiro:

It is true.

elampiro:

The Pope summoned Our Lady to his court at Vatican instead of going to pay homage to her at Fatima.

An elected Pope indeed! You will soon realized something. You just wait.

Ubenedictus: since you still want to talk about this, it would interest you to know that benedict planed the whole thing before he retired
(Vatican Radio) "Blessed are you for believing!" That is the theme of the Marian Day which will be held in the Vatican on 12 and 13 October next, in the presence of the Holy Father Pope Francis and all the associations of Marian spirituality. Organized by the Pontifical Council for Promoting the New Evangelization, the event is part of the celebrations of the Year of Faith - organized by the then Pope Benedict XVI to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of the Second Vatican Council - and coincides with the anniversary of the last apparition of the Blessed Virgin at Fatima: it was, in fact, on October 13, 1917 when at Cova da Iria, Portugal, Our Lady appeared for the sixth and final time to the three shepherd children, Lucia, Francisco and Jacinta. Soon after, there was the so-called "miracle of the sun" the solar disc changed colour, size and position for about ten minutes. In memory of this date, therefore, the original statue of Our Lady of Fatima will be brought to St. Peter's Square and exposed to the veneration of the faithful. This is the program of the day in detail: Saturday, October 12, at 8:00 am, there will be a pilgrimage to the tomb of Peter, an hour later, Eucharistic Adoration will begin with the celebration of the sacrament of reconciliation in some churches adjacent to St. Peter's Square. In the afternoon, at 17.00, the statue of Our Lady of Fatima will be welcomed by Pope Francis in St. Peter's Square and then the Pope will hold a Marian catechesis. From 19.00 onwards, the statue of the Virgin arrives at the Sanctuary of Divine Love, where the Rosary will be recited with a link up to all the Marian shrines in the world, while starting from 22.00, there will be a prayer vigil. The next day, Sunday, October 13, the statue will return to St. Peter's Square at 10.00 am, there will be a recitation of the Holy Rosary, and at 10.30 The Pope will preside at Mass. "www.news.va/en/news/pope-to-attend-marian-day-in-the-vatican

Ubenedictus: like i said i attend tradentine mass with gregorian chant and heavy latin, i'll attend it again this sunday so i naturally think i'm the most paronoid when talking about theological currents between traditionalists and progressives, it pains me when someone is interpreting catholic teachings with private revelations, it should be the other way.
I just can't believe it, is it the first time a pope retired.

italo: @ Ube, you actually spent your energy to make that explanation?

You have a good heart...but this one only believes whatever seems to him to portray Francis in bad light. Even if its a lie.

Ubenedictus: what letter?
Who told you that pope francis denied the divinity of christ?

elampiro: I went for counselling on this issue and many more. I have been taught a lot of things I never knew from a very reputable source. I was also given this link and told the boundaries to observe in this matter.

Concerning “Maria Divine Mercy”, Pope Francis, and the False Prophet
Posted on August 1, 2013 by twohearts
By Dr. Kelly Bowring, Author of best-seller “The Secrets, Chastisement, and Triumph” and “The Great Battle Has Begun”

+++

The messages of Maria Divine Mercy (MDM), which she is reportedly receiving from heavenly sources, are plausible. I have examined all the messages, as well as all of the published evaluations and criticisms of her messages… and have not found them to establish a single error in her reported messages. And the negative evaluations of MDM posted by critics to date have been, at best, inconclusive and unconvincing.

I have not found that her messages contradict any doctrine, or that they contain an actual error. As of today, her messages are not condemned by any official Church authority with jurisdiction to do so (which would be the Irish Bishops or the CDF), though certainly they have not received Church recognition either.

On the other hand, several of her prophecies have been fulfilled, and her messages are congruent to the other related legitimate sources of prophecy being given in these times.

As well, the Crusader Prayers of Maria Divine Mercy are in the same status as her reported messages, as stated above, and thus, it would seem that it is permissible to pray them.

So, in summary, the Church faithful may read and spread MDM’s reported messages and pray her prayers.

+++


Caution Needed!

Still, we must be cautious, and continue to discern with prayer and docility to the Church and the Holy Spirit, while remembering the words of Pope Urban VIII: “In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true.”

+++

Potential Problem

One of the serious issues that are raised by the reported heavenly messages of MDM is regarding her message that Pope Benedict XVI would leave the papacy (before he died) and that his successor would be the false prophet (as discussed in Revelation 13). This is a difficult message and must be considered with delicate discernment. Whether this message is true or not, we do not know.

Even if this reported message is true, we must never take it upon ourselves to decide as such… we must wait for the Church to direct us in such matters. No matter what, we must remain faithful to the Church. We are never personally permitted to believe the Pope is invalid, unless the highest legitimate authority of the Church were to indicate that he is.

+++

Careful Distinction

So, while we may meditate on and spread the messages of MDM… as practicing Catholics, we must also be cautious about (and even somewhat critical concerning) this message related to the new Pope, and in this situation we must personally declare the following:

1. I accept the teaching of the Universal Catholic Church that the Pope when speaking on faith and morals is infallible.

[color=#990000]Elampiro says Pope has blasphemed

2. I accept, as legitimately elected by the recent conclave, Pope Francis (as the validly elected Pope). Elampiro denies this

This includes “religious assent of mind and heart to the manifest mind of the pope, even when he is not speaking infallibly” (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 25), which every member of the Catholic faithful is obliged to offer Pope Francis. Elampiro falls into Schism

+++

Time Will Tell

Time will make things more clear in this delicate matter, as to whether MDM’s messages deserve repudiation because she is in doctrinal error, her messages are inauthentic, or she is eventually rightly condemned by the Church. Otherwise, her prophecies will continue to validate themselves as events unfold and they come true. Yes, Yes, while we Pray.
+++

Important Question and Clarification

The most common question people are asking right now about MDM is whether a validly elected Pope could even be the false prophet, as her messages are reporting. The answer is – YES.

Though, while it is possible, it would be quite improbable.

So, how could it happen that a validly-elected Pope could become the false prophet (an invalid pope or an anti-pope)?

Pope Paul IV’s Papal Bull Cum ex Apostolatus Officio teaches that if anyone was a heretic before the Papal election, he could not be a valid Pope, even if he is (validly) elected unanimously by the Cardinals.

As well, Canon 188.4 (1917 Code of Canon Law) states that if a cleric (pope, bishop, etc.) becomes a heretic, he loses his office, without any declaration, by operation of law.

St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Antonius, St. Francis de Sales, St. Alphonsus Liguori, and many other theologians all taught that a heretic cannot be a valid pope.

“If however, God were to permit a pope to become

a notoriously and contumacious heretic,

he would by such fact cease to be pope,

and the apostolic chair would be vacant.”

St. Alphonsus Liguori, Church Doctor

Here are some more citations on this possibility: http://www.protestanterrors.com/pope-heresy.htm

However, ecclesiastical law requires that the faithful must presume we have a valid Pope, unless the Church’s highest authority formally declares otherwise .

So, one may consider the possibility that an “anti-pope” could potentially come from a valid conclave, and this does not constitute a false or “heretical” position.

Thus, it is actually possible to remain faithful to the Magisterium AND consider that the messages of MDM plausibly might be authentic that the Pope is the false prophet… and even that the Church herself states that this IS at least possible.

+++

Time will make this matter more clear.

http://twoheartspress.com/blog/concerning-maria-divine-mercy-pope-francis-and-the-false-prophet/[/color]

Syncan:

Just highlighted some places for you in your post above.

Frankly speaking, something is wrong with you and your retreat. Look at your posts, Filled with "wild possibilities", nothing Concrete, yet on it was based your schism. Painful indeed.

elampiro: I went for counselling on this issue and many more. I have been taught a lot of things I never knew from a very reputable source. I was also given this link and told the boundaries to observe in this matter.

Concerning “Maria Divine Mercy”, Pope Francis, and the False Prophet
Posted on August 1, 2013 by twohearts
By Dr. Kelly Bowring, Author of best-seller “The Secrets, Chastisement, and Triumph” and “The Great Battle Has Begun”

+++

The messages of Maria Divine Mercy (MDM), which she is reportedly receiving from heavenly sources, are plausible. I have examined all the messages, as well as all of the published evaluations and criticisms of her messages… and have not found them to establish a single error in her reported messages. And the negative evaluations of MDM posted by critics to date have been, at best, inconclusive and unconvincing.

I have not found that her messages contradict any doctrine, or that they contain an actual error. As of today, her messages are not condemned by any official Church authority with jurisdiction to do so (which would be the Irish Bishops or the CDF), though certainly they have not received Church recognition either.

On the other hand, several of her prophecies have been fulfilled, and her messages are congruent to the other related legitimate sources of prophecy being given in these times.

As well, the Crusader Prayers of Maria Divine Mercy are in the same status as her reported messages, as stated above, and thus, it would seem that it is permissible to pray them.

So, in summary, the Church faithful may read and spread MDM’s reported messages and pray her prayers.

+++


Caution Needed!

Still, we must be cautious, and continue to discern with prayer and docility to the Church and the Holy Spirit, while remembering the words of Pope Urban VIII: “In cases which concern private revelations, it is better to believe than not to believe, for, if you believe, and it is proven true, you will be happy that you have believed, because our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe, and it should be proven false, you will receive all blessings as if it had been true, because you believed it to be true.”

+++

Potential Problem

One of the serious issues that are raised by the reported heavenly messages of MDM is regarding her message that Pope Benedict XVI would leave the papacy (before he died) and that his successor would be the false prophet (as discussed in Revelation 13). This is a difficult message and must be considered with delicate discernment. Whether this message is true or not, we do not know.

Even if this reported message is true, we must never take it upon ourselves to decide as such… we must wait for the Church to direct us in such matters. No matter what, we must remain faithful to the Church. We are never personally permitted to believe the Pope is invalid, unless the highest legitimate authority of the Church were to indicate that he is.

+++

Careful Distinction

So, while we may meditate on and spread the messages of MDM… as practicing Catholics, we must also be cautious about (and even somewhat critical concerning) this message related to the new Pope, and in this situation we must personally declare the following:

1. I accept the teaching of the Universal Catholic Church that the Pope when speaking on faith and morals is infallible.

2. I accept, as legitimately elected by the recent conclave, Pope Francis (as the validly elected Pope).

This includes “religious assent of mind and heart to the manifest mind of the pope, even when he is not speaking infallibly” (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 25), which every member of the Catholic faithful is obliged to offer Pope Francis.

+++

Time Will Tell

Time will make things more clear in this delicate matter, as to whether MDM’s messages deserve repudiation because she is in doctrinal error, her messages are inauthentic, or she is eventually rightly condemned by the Church. Otherwise, her prophecies will continue to validate themselves as events unfold and they come true.

+++

Important Question and Clarification

The most common question people are asking right now about MDM is whether a validly elected Pope could even be the false prophet, as her messages are reporting. The answer is – YES.

Though, while it is possible, it would be quite improbable.

So, how could it happen that a validly-elected Pope could become the false prophet (an invalid pope or an anti-pope)?

Pope Paul IV’s Papal Bull Cum ex Apostolatus Officio teaches that if anyone was a heretic before the Papal election, he could not be a valid Pope, even if he is (validly) elected unanimously by the Cardinals.

As well, Canon 188.4 (1917 Code of Canon Law) states that if a cleric (pope, bishop, etc.) becomes a heretic, he loses his office, without any declaration, by operation of law.

St. Robert Bellarmine, St. Antonius, St. Francis de Sales, St. Alphonsus Liguori, and many other theologians all taught that a heretic cannot be a valid pope.

“If however, God were to permit a pope to become

a notoriously and contumacious heretic,

he would by such fact cease to be pope,

and the apostolic chair would be vacant.”

St. Alphonsus Liguori, Church Doctor

Here are some more citations on this possibility: http://www.protestanterrors.com/pope-heresy.htm

However, ecclesiastical law requires that the faithful must presume we have a valid Pope, unless the Church’s highest authority formally declares otherwise.

So, one may consider the possibility that an “anti-pope” could potentially come from a valid conclave, and this does not constitute a false or “heretical” position.

Thus, it is actually possible to remain faithful to the Magisterium AND consider that the messages of MDM plausibly might be authentic that the Pope is the false prophet… and even that the Church herself states that this IS at least possible.

+++

Time will make this matter more clear.

http://twoheartspress.com/blog/concerning-maria-divine-mercy-pope-francis-and-the-false-prophet/