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Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? - Religion - Nairaland

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Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:37am On Oct 04, 2013
Most especially, atheist on this forum like to say that Buddhism is not a religion, it's a philosophy because it doesn't rely on belief in deity etc. Logicboy tagged Japan as atheistic nation....here refering to buddhists as atheists. He is right considering that buddhists do not believe in supernatural God.
However, in my humble opinion, Buddhism meets the definition of what a religion is... What most funny is the things people value in different cultures.

Remember that plenty of religions want to differentiate themselves from the pool of religions in the world... I've seen Christians claiming things like, "Christianity isn't a religion. Religions are mans attempt to reach God...Christianity is Gods effort to reach man." It's just that people want to be "special" and not have to categorize themselves or judge themselves by the standards of others.


Is Buddhism a Religion?

It depends on whom you ask. A lot of Westerners calling themselves Buddhists will say "No." But if you have ever spent any time around genuine Buddhists from Asian countries you'd know the answer is "Yes". The mistake is whether the Buddha intended to establish a new religion or just a new manner of thought out of Hinduism and it thousands of Gods. Some streams of Buddhism could legitimately be called atheistic, while others could be called pantheistic, and still others theistic such as Pure Land Buddhism. Eastern religions can also appear to be so different from Western religions that some people become confused. It's really all just splitting hairs. Sects such as Pure Land Buddhism are especially religious in their belief.

• Buddhism is not about either believing or not believing in God or gods. Rather, the historical Buddha taught that believing in gods was not useful for those seeking to realize enlightenment. In other words, God is unnecessary in Buddhism. For this reason, Buddhism is more accurately called nontheistic than atheistic.

• The Buddha also plainly said that he was not a god, but "awakened." Yet throughout Asia it is common to find people praying to the Buddha or to the many clearly mythical figures that populate Buddhist iconography. Temples are for religious purpose and not atheistic purpose.

• Pilgrims flock to stupas that are said to hold relics of the Buddha. Philosophical teachings will not have pilgirimage centers. The Religions only have pilgirimage centers.

• Some schools of Buddhism are deeply devotional. Even in the non-devotional schools, such as Theravada or Zen, there are rituals that involve bowing and offering food, flowers and incense to a Buddha figure on an altar.

• The many mythological creatures and beings that populate Mahayana Buddhism art and literature are often called "gods" or "deities." But, you can either believe the deity is actual, or you can take the deity as a metaphor for your own qualities.

• The Tripitaka (Tipitaka in Pali) is the earliest collection of Buddhist teachings and the only text recognized as canonical by Theravada Buddhists. Mahayana Buddhism reveres the Tripitaka as a sacred text, but adds to it the Sutras, which reflect distinctively Mahayana concepts.

• A number of countries recognize Buddhism as their official religion: Bhutan, Cambodia, Kalmykia, Japan, Thailand, Tibet Government in Exile and also Srilanka.

• Ironically, the eastern concept of Nirvana is similar to the western concept of Hell, whereas reincarnation is thought of as a positive thing, a way to extend life in the west while in the east it's considered a prolonging of suffering.


Some in the West dismiss these devotional and worshipful aspects of Buddhism as corruptions of the original teachings of the Buddha. For example, Sam Harris, a self-identified atheist who has expressed admiration for Buddhism just like every average atheist in Nigeria. We tend to cleansed of the "naive, petitionary, and superstitious" attachment to make it completely free from religion and look more philosophical.

At this junction, Ifa to me is viewed in the same sense we view buddhism. The 'barking at' by atheist with regard to embracing Ifa makes me ask alot of questions like...

- If buddhism is embraced and admired because it forcefully separated from religion, why cant I embrace Ifa by separating it from religion too?

- Since we embrace buddhism because westerners rebrand it, should we agree atheism is a robust and fashioned western belief? Why must we follow western path?

- Why are we moved toward foreign thought, philosophy and belief while trashing that of Africa....ethnic? Why cant we be ourselves?

- why do African atheist turn atheism into organise religion....'Dawkin or Harris said it so we follow'?

- Is it fundamental motion of pushing African belief, spirituality and thought into dark room over western belief? Isn't this colonization and mental slavery?

- Why cant we light the candle instead of cursing the dark? We did this to buddhism, why not African thought, philosophy and spirituality?

2 Likes

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 8:40am On Oct 04, 2013
Oh boy, move to Asia... that's the only way most of your questions will be answered.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:50am On Oct 04, 2013
aManFromMars: Oh boy, move to Asia... that's the only way most of your questions will be answered.

My questions are for African Atheist especially those in Nigeria who kick against African spirituality.

Dont bring this evasion of question to cunny attacking me....deal with the quest man
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Ajibam: 8:50am On Oct 04, 2013
lipsrsealed

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 8:52am On Oct 04, 2013
Lol. With this line we can all claim anything.
....
- If buddhism is embraced and admired because it forcefully separated from religion, why cant I embrace Ifa by separating it from religion too?
...
Some of my brothers will tell you that christainity is a way of life and not a religion.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 8:57am On Oct 04, 2013
Reyginus: Lol. With this line we can all claim anything.
....
- If buddhism is embraced and admired because it forcefully separated from religion, why cant I embrace Ifa by separating it from religion too?
...
Some of my brothers will tell you that christainity is a way of life and not a religion.

lol. Even though I dont agree with most christian doctrines, I still find sense in some jesus teaching like love, charity and respect for authority. Also the book of proverb is the book I love reading most in bible. It not about belief or looking for flaws in bible, it about seeking knowledge.

Atheist on this forum are bend to admiring buddhism as philosophy, still wandering why they bark at me for admiring Ifa philosophy.

1 Like

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 9:06am On Oct 04, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

lol. Even though I dont agree with most christian doctrines, I still find sense in some jesus teaching like love, charity and respect for authority. Also the book of proverb is the book I love reading most in bible. It not about belief or looking for flaws in bible, it about seeking knowledge.

Atheist on this forum are bend to admiring buddhism as philosophy, still wandering why they bark at me for admiring Ifa philosophy.
That's the problem with some atheists here. They will tell you that China is an atheist nation, irrespective of their deep religious nature. Lol. Then you begin to wonder if buddhism is a way of life too. Lol. Another thing is, some atheist here do not seek for knowledge. They think they've arrived. The reason you see atheists like logicboy always making unfounded claims.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 9:24am On Oct 04, 2013
Reyginus: That's the problem with some atheists here. They will tell you that China is an atheist nation, irrespective of their deep religious nature. Lol. Then you begin to wonder if buddhism is a way of life too. Lol. Another thing is, some atheist here do not seek for knowledge. They think they've arrived. The reason you see atheists like logicboy always making unfounded claims.


I dont have problem with anything they attached to their atheism. It personal thing and not anybody's problem.

The problem is when they force their opinion on others....something like turning atheism into a religion. If they can admire buddhism philosophy and kick against it religious aspect. The same measures are expected from Africans who has not willfully submitted himself to oppression by lighting candle into another man's dark room while sleeping in a thick dark room claiming to be intelligent. This is first degree mental slavery. We cant be completely free from oppression if we are not ourselves.....most atheist too oppressed.

Imagine one of them saying his ancestors were dumb? This person went far to praise buddhism and western thought for trashing what belongs to him. This is something I kick against. Tufiakwa

1 Like

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 10:05am On Oct 04, 2013
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 10:05am On Oct 04, 2013
FOLYKAZE:


I dont have problem with anything they attached to their atheism. It personal thing and not anybody's problem.

The problem is when they force their opinion on others....something like turning atheism into a religion. If they can admire buddhism philosophy and kick against it religious aspect. The same measures are expected from Africans who has not willfully submitted himself to oppression by lighting candle into another man's dark room while sleeping in a thick dark room claiming to be intelligent. This is first degree mental slavery. We cant be completely free from oppression if we are not ourselves.....most atheist too oppressed.

Imagine one of them saying his ancestors were dumb? This person went far to praise buddhism and western thought for trashing what belongs to him. This is something I kick against. Tufiakwa
Lol. If it were a theist that makes such claim i'm very sure the atheist will call him a brainwashed person. Let's keep waiting for the atheist who will stand up to this challenge.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by barackohandso(m): 10:09am On Oct 04, 2013
Wow! So you really opened a thread regarding this issue
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 10:44am On Oct 04, 2013
Hmmm..11posts and no single NL atheist is giving an answer to folykaze questions.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Ajibam: 10:55am On Oct 04, 2013
joel lala: Hmmm..11posts and no single NL atheist is giving an answer to folykaze questions.

grin
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:03pm On Oct 04, 2013
barack_o_handso: Wow! So you really opened a thread regarding this issue

expressing my mind give me inner peace. The challenge is up to co-atheist to pick.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 1:15pm On Oct 04, 2013
joel lala: Hmmm..11posts and no single NL atheist is giving an answer to folykaze questions.

You mean 'nairaland atheist'? Such is there way. Dont ask anything that will stand against them but they are brutal when slot for bashing you comes in.

Even when they appear, they ignore you challenge to attack you or derail thread. AmanFromMars post on this thread said it all.

Anyway, I will still look forward for their answers.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by Nobody: 2:13pm On Oct 04, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

You mean 'nairaland atheist'? Such is there way. Dont ask anything that will stand against them but they are brutal when slot for bashing you comes in.

Even when they appear, they ignore you challenge to attack you or derail thread. AmanFromMars post on this thread said it all.

Anyway, I will still look forward for their answers.


LoL but i doubt if they will answer your question..however, i await their answers too.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by macof(m): 3:19pm On Oct 04, 2013
Buddhism doesn't recognize God or any spiritual being, It all about trying to be vindicated from the suffering of this world.

Buddha taught about striving to live a moral life by being mindful of ur actions and thoughts to achieve wisdom and understanding.

Buddhists strive to attain true happiness as the world is Hell itself

Every Buddhist strives to be like The buddha who gained enlightenment after connecting with his inner consciousness through meditations and other mediums.

Buddist do not care about material things, most buddhist are what u would call poor, because they find no use for theses things because it doesnt guarantee happiness and peace of mind

Buddhist are seekers of Knowledge and peace, trying to make the world a better place. that is why u can never hear of forced or compelled conversion, wars or discrimination in areas where Buddhism prevails. (afterall wisdom is not for everybody)

Buddhism is not science, but it deals with the main purpose of science which is knowledge, theories, and above all making the world a better place.

Buddhist believe in the law of karma(not as a spiritual concept but natural law of actions with consequences)

Its no wonder Atheist are fans of Buddhism, it supports their course

Ifa recognize forces that drives nature

Ifa also teaches the importance of good character

Ifa preaches that the most important thing to us is our consciousnesses and subconsciousness

Ifa teaches that connecting with ur subconscious makes life easy and the road to achieving ur destiny is smooth

Ifa to a large degree is science because it is all about gaining knowledge of everything knowledgeable

Ifa tells the truth using symbolism, it is left to u to interpret and understand its use of symbolism

Ifa however isnt into any known/recognised scientific method of discovering knowledge. Ifa is on its own league

2 Likes

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 3:39pm On Oct 04, 2013
^^^^ your post warrant 1001 likes.

Im really impressed with objectivity in your post. You have shown the philosophical and spiritual relationship between Ifa and Buddhism.

However, both of this spiritual path have religion sides. Though I agree we can separate religion from it and clinch to philosophical surface.

The problem im having with atheist on this forum is that they are bend to lighting the candle in another man's room but are sleeping in thick dark room. There is nothing wrong is embracing other world opinion and views but it greatest stupidity to hate self.

If atheist on this forum can tag buddhist and buddhist nation as atheistic, why cant they agree with me on Ifa?

What is wrong in Igbo who is atheist embracing 'chi' and yoruba who is an atheist embrace Ifa?

Why cant we be ourselves and promote what belong to us? Why following foreign things only? Isn't this modern slavery and colonization?

If only atheist can prove me wrong concerning philosophical aspect of Ifa, they should attached to buddhism and see how illogical it is to trash, stamped and curse what is ancestry to you.

1 Like

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 4:31pm On Oct 04, 2013
macof: Buddhism doesn't recognize God or any spiritual being, It all about trying to be vindicated from the suffering of this world.

Buddha taught about striving to live a moral life by being mindful of ur actions and thoughts to achieve wisdom and understanding.

Buddhists strive to attain true happiness as the world is Hell itself

Every Buddhist strives to be like The buddha who gained enlightenment after connecting with his inner consciousness through meditations and other mediums.

Buddist do not care about material things, most buddhist are what u would call poor, because they find no use for theses things because it doesnt guarantee happiness and peace of mind

Buddhist are seekers of Knowledge and peace, trying to make the world a better place. that is why u can never hear of forced or compelled conversion, wars or discrimination in areas where Buddhism prevails. (afterall wisdom is not for everybody)

Buddhism is not science, but it deals with the main purpose of science which is knowledge, theories, and above all making the world a better place.

Buddhist believe in the law of karma(not as a spiritual concept but natural law of actions with consequences)

Its no wonder Atheist are fans of Buddhism, it supports their course

Ifa recognize forces that drives nature

Ifa also teaches the importance of good character

Ifa preaches that the most important thing to us is our consciousnesses and subconsciousness

Ifa teaches that connecting with ur subconscious makes life easy and the road to achieving ur destiny is smooth

Ifa to a large degree is science because it is all about gaining knowledge of everything knowledgeable

Ifa tells the truth using symbolism, it is left to u to interpret and understand its use of symbolism

Ifa however isnt into any known/recognised scientific method of discovering knowledge. Ifa is on its own league

Let me get some things correct here. God or No God is buddhism doesn't make it atheistic. There are Gods in buddhism like in Ifa. Traditionally yes
but according to the Buddha, believe-in is not the right word to use. Buddhism recognizes there are different living beings (life forms) and some of them are gods, divines, deities, etc. In the Buddhist language, they are called differently as they are also many kinds and have different places of their own. These deities in my opinion are best understood metaphorically, basically everything else the Buddha taught was taught using metaphors.
Yama the God of Death, Mara the tempter deity....Deva in sanskrit means a god/demigod (Like an angel or something). Brahmā, Asura, Śakra, Yaksha, Sariputta, Tara, Kwan Yin and many other Gods are found in Buddhism. Asura means Demons, naraka (hell) and nirvana (heaven).

Moreover in Ifa there are Gods but are metaphoric. In yoruba spirituality, the term believe is not really essential. They are there like the sun which you dont need believe in.

- Eledumare means infinite consciousnes, totality of energies and forces that therein in the universe. It doesn't have problem with you or concerned with you. You are microcosm of the whole and God of yourself. Only those who understand their 'me' and 'me-ness' grap this.

Ogun in the scientific worldview is a chemical element called Iron. Relating it oriki and scientific knowledge about it shows this is what it is. Monsters not attached.

Sango is electric energy. The metaphoric poem about it relates to it energetic nature and humanic nature. The human Sango was the vessel for energetic electric force which mastered and manifested the power of electric and forming lightening in his days. A typical lightning bolt contains 1 billion volts and contains between 10,000 to 200,000 amperes of current. Relating science to it metaphor shows it energy and not monsters.

Eshu is intuition. No voodoo included.

Orisa is selected consciousness among the infinite body of consciousness.

Orisha practise is not about worshipping God/Gods but awareness and recognizing those energies (Gods). This pave way to this saying 'ori eni la ba bo, aba fi orisa sile' meaning we are entitled to admire our consciousness and should have ignore orisa.

This and many Gods in Yoruba are not walking, talking and angry monsters. This apply to Devas in Buddhism. Sango is not asking anybody to worship it nor Devas needs your worship. I agree buddhism and Ifa went a step further where it meet religion....thats where temple, shrine, rituals and praying comes in. All the way, both spiritual path are same.

If western atheist can breaks into the metaphoric nature of Devas, whats wrong about African atheist to breaks into metaphoric nature of Orisha? Why cant I hijack Orisa practises from those who are ignorant about it that demonize it or turn it to Anthropomorphical God?

Let me ask you, if buddhism is atheistic in it concept, what happen to Ifa with it concept?
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by macof(m): 6:13pm On Oct 04, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

Let me get some things correct here. God or No God is buddhism doesn't make it atheistic. There are Gods in buddhism like in Ifa. Traditionally yes
but according to the Buddha, believe-in is not the right word to use. Buddhism recognizes there are different living beings (life forms) and some of them are gods, divines, deities, etc. In the Buddhist language, they are called differently as they are also many kinds and have different places of their own. These deities in my opinion are best understood metaphorically, basically everything else the Buddha taught was taught using metaphors.
Yama the God of Death, Mara the tempter deity....Deva in sanskrit means a god/demigod (Like an angel or something). Brahmā, Asura, Śakra, Yaksha, Sariputta, Tara, Kwan Yin and many other Gods are found in Buddhism. Asura means Demons, naraka (hell) and nirvana (heaven).

Moreover in Ifa there are Gods but are metaphoric. In yoruba spirituality, the term believe is not really essential. They are there like the sun which you dont need believe in.

- Eledumare means infinite consciousnes, totality of energies and forces that therein in the universe. It doesn't have problem with you or concerned with you. You are microcosm of the whole and God of yourself. Only those who understand their 'me' and 'me-ness' grap this.

Ogun in the scientific worldview is a chemical element called Iron. Relating it oriki and scientific knowledge about it shows this is what it is. Monsters not attached.

Sango is electric energy. The metaphoric poem about it relates to it energetic nature and humanic nature. The human Sango was the vessel for energetic electric force which mastered and manifested the power of electric and forming lightening in his days. A typical lightning bolt contains 1 billion volts and contains between 10,000 to 200,000 amperes of current. Relating science to it metaphor shows it energy and not monsters.

Eshu is intuition. No voodoo included.

Orisa is selected consciousness among the infinite body of consciousness.

Orisha practise is not about worshipping God/Gods but awareness and recognizing those energies (Gods). This pave way to this saying 'ori eni la ba bo, aba fi orisa sile' meaning we are entitled to admire our consciousness and should have ignore orisa.

This and many Gods in Yoruba are not walking, talking and angry monsters. This apply to Devas in Buddhism. Sango is not asking anybody to worship it nor Devas needs your worship. I agree buddhism and Ifa went a step further where it meet religion....thats where temple, shrine, rituals and praying comes in. All the way, both spiritual path are same.

If western atheist can breaks into the metaphoric nature of Devas, whats wrong about African atheist to breaks into metaphoric nature of Orisha? Why cant I hijack Orisa practises from those who are ignorant about it that demonize it or turn it to Anthropomorphical God?

Let me ask you, if buddhism is atheistic in it concept, what happen to Ifa with it concept?
sorry, I was not suppose to use the words "don't recognise". Cause they actually recognise spiritual forces(gods) but buddhists don't worship them.


If anyone can find atheistic reasoning in Buddhism, u can find just as much in Ifa studies.

1 Like

Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:46pm On Oct 04, 2013
macof: sorry, I was not suppose to use the words "don't recognise". Cause they actually recognise spiritual forces(gods) but buddhists don't worship them.


If anyone can find atheistic reasoning in Buddhism, u can find just as much in Ifa studies.

Epic.

Just wondering why my atheist pal ignore this thread.

No retreating bro.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:28am On Oct 05, 2013
you guyz are the best. cool

good thread.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 10:36am On Oct 05, 2013
Why are atheist ignoring this thread?

Is mental slavery we accuse christians and muslims about not applying to us who see good thing in buddhism but trash our ancestral belief, culture and spirituality?

Sam Harris, a prominent proponent of New Atheism and practitioner of Buddhist meditation......

Foly Kaze, a prominent proponent of Atheism and practitioner of Orisa (Ifa philosophy).....

Logicboy, come and call me fakeatheist and sink the integrity of Sam Harris and other buddhist atheist. Come and bash me only if your GF is not an atheist and also a shinto practitioner.

Ya atheist, lets stop following the westerners like modernized slave.....if senses can be found in buddhism, senses can be found in African thought and spirituality too.

In fela voice....stop this kolo mentality
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by MamiWata: 2:54pm On Oct 05, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

Eshu is intuition. No voodoo included.


Vodun means spirit. Are you asserting that the spirits are not really spirits but just names given to concepts like intuition? If so you are disrespecting the very foundation of vodun.

I believe you have identified yourself as an atheist who believes in the philosophical unerpinnings of Ifa. Why do you feel it is necessary to adhere to any philosophical package. I thought atheists were the ones who put themselves out there and lives their lives without a moral blueprint other than the one that feels right to them. Are you saying that atheists also desire a group identity in the same way other religious do? Why is that necessary? I think that being part of a group is what people really want. The title of the group seems to be secondary.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 4:30pm On Oct 05, 2013
MamiWata:

Vodun means spirit. Are you asserting that the spirits are not really spirits but just names given to concepts like intuition? If so you are disrespecting the very foundation of vodun.

I believe you have identified yourself as an atheist who believes in the philosophical unerpinnings of Ifa. Why do you feel it is necessary to adhere to any philosophical package. I thought atheists were the ones who put themselves out there and lives their lives without a moral blueprint other than the one that feels right to them. Are you saying that atheists also desire a group identity in the same way other religious do? Why is that necessary? I think that being part of a group is what people really want. The title of the group seems to be secondary.

- firstly, voodoo is a religion which recognise spirit as divine entity. How does that relate to Eshu? And how do I disrespect Vodou religion?

- Spirit mean force or energy. Most people think spirit is one humanoid monster who talk, walk or something like dolly.

- atheist have no moral? Chai. Off topic....im not discussing about this.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by okeyxyz(m): 4:57pm On Oct 05, 2013
@OP

Nice writeup. I am in fact impressed by this article, I never thought you could be this intellectual/analytical. I say this because your previous ventutres on nairaland was all about abusing christians and christianity and carrying on with your "I was born an atheist" mantra, a mantra characteristic of Richard-Dawkins/Sam-Harris worshipers. For these group of atheists, they think: If it sounds catchy and it comes from Dawkings/Harris, then it is absolute, airtight truth. Well done.

I do have some issues from your article that I must comment on:

Firstly, buddhism is a religion, as long as it is spiritual doctrines, no matter how people want to rehash it. But you seem to be of the opinion that Buddha did not intend to setup a religion; I disagree. Buddhism being a philosophical and spiritual outlook on life and life's purpose/value( in other words: a religion); If buddha did not intend to start a religion, then he wouldn't have sought to propagate this philosophy by teaching and urging people to follow it's doctrines and truths, urging that they abandon their established religious beliefs, to replace with the doctrines and practices of buddha. The emphasis here is that he actively taught and urged followership of his truths; If these truths are not scientific proofs, then they are religious/spiritual truths, thus it was his intention to start a religion, just like Jesus Christ, Mohammed, etc

Another issue is that you seem to mistake atheism or non-theism for non-religion. You seem to believe that religion requires an external deity to be qualified as "religion". This is not so. A religion is simply an organized collection of belief systems founded on spirituality(note: beliefs and spirituality, not scientific proofs). Such a belief system could involve external deities or could exclude external deities, however they are still organized spiritual beliefs, thus they are religious.

Again I credit this article for inspiring me to understand atheism better, as the unbelief in deities rather than the unbelief in spiritualities. So one can be an atheist and a buddhist(or any religion that excludes deities) at the same time. So you can argue that atheism is a religion, or at least there are religious denonminations of atheism, just as @folykaze is an atheist and an Ifa worshipper. Come to think of it, Ifa religion has deities nah Aren't you confused??
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by ninja4life(m): 5:10pm On Oct 05, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

My questions are for African Atheist especially those in Nigeria who kick against African spirituality.

Dont bring this evasion of question to cunny attacking me....deal with the quest man
i will like u to define spirituality cos most time i come across it d first thing dat comes to mind is d belief in spirits which is spiritualism.i'm sure there are others like dat.spirituality hav different definition and its definition usually changes over time.so i think it will be better if u define ur own idea of spirituality or better start using another term which best describe ur ideas.my opinion.just like pantheist uses god when making a discusion one might think dey believe in a supernatural god like d abrahamic religions cos god is usually used to denote a supernatural being therefore causing some sort of misunderstanding i stand to be corrected though.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by ninja4life(m): 5:16pm On Oct 05, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

My questions are for African Atheist especially those in Nigeria who kick against African spirituality.

Dont bring this evasion of question to cunny attacking me....deal with the quest man
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by ninja4life(m): 5:17pm On Oct 05, 2013
FOLYKAZE:

My questions are for African Atheist especially those in Nigeria who kick against African spirituality.

Dont bring this evasion of question to cunny attacking me....deal with the quest man
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:39pm On Oct 05, 2013
MamiWata:

Vodun means spirit. Are you asserting that the spirits are not really spirits but just names given to concepts like intuition? If so you are disrespecting the very foundation of vodun.

I believe you have identified yourself as an atheist who believes in the philosophical unerpinnings of Ifa. Why do you feel it is necessary to adhere to any philosophical package. I thought atheists were the ones who put themselves out there and lives their lives without a moral blueprint other than the one that feels right to them. Are you saying that atheists also desire a group identity in the same way other religious do? Why is that necessary? I think that being part of a group is what people really want. The title of the group seems to be secondary.

I understand your concerns.

Atheists must be careful not to atheistize Pagan religions, including Ifa Orisha.

If they truly want to embrace and defend the traditions of their forefathers, they must back the Spiritual beliefs as a religion and push for its National Recognition.

one cannot be two.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:01pm On Oct 05, 2013
@ okeyxyz

I agree with you that Buddhism is a religion. From what I read about it, it evolved from Hinduism and like I stated before, I dont know if buddha wanted to form another religion or want to build philosophical thought on Hinduism. Anyway, prior to Buddhism which we see today, Gautama Buddha was a philosopher and freethinker. What he was advocating is all about philosophy of existence, essence of life as suffering and enlightenment. Buddha means Awakened or enlightened from illusion
"Buddhi" means Intellect. . Buddha was silent when asked about the belief in God and he venerate spiritually at natural world. So it is more philosophical but unfortunately, religion took over it. I dont agree with you on the stand that buddha teach other to follow his teachings. I remember where he said “Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense.” So I dont see where he is urging or teaching people to follow is teaching. Anyway, the westerners have forcefully separated buddhism from religion. Atheist from Africa seem to embrace 'godless buddhism' as atheistic. However, African philosophical thought and spirituality has been infected with religion so atheist from Africa stamped and throw it out of window why they took twin-spirituality from another land because it rebranded by westerners. So the question is why lighting a candle in another person room while your room is dark and you cursing the dark? Why cant we light same light in our room?


We also need to understand that religion is different from spirituality. The essence of spirituality is the search to know our real self, to discover the true nature of consciousness. You also wrong saying spirituality; not scientific proven....“Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality- Carl Sagan. So in as much you atheist, you can be spiritual but religion is completely out of it.


One can be an atheist or any form of spirituality be it buddhism or Ifa. What defines atheist is disbelief in the existence of God/god. And finally, in Yoruba spirituality or Ifa, there are lot of orisa. English vocabulary most of time don't contain the core meaning of another language. A very good example is 'eku ile' in yoruba, it is translate to 'welcome' in english. However, they the word 'welcome' do not cover the whole picture of 'eku ile'.

So if by saying Deity you mean to say Orisa, then I will agree lot of Orisa are in Ifa. But what is Orisa? Orisa = Ori (consciousness) + sa (selected) means it is selected consciousness among the infinite consciousness. Therefore, Orisa doesn't relate with any anthropomorphical God but selected consciousness.
Re: Atheist, Why Embracing Buddhism And Not African Philosophy And Spirituality? by FOLYKAZE(m): 6:09pm On Oct 05, 2013
ninja4life:
i will like u to define spirituality cos most time i come across it d first thing dat comes to mind is d belief in spirits which is spiritualism.i'm sure there are others like dat.spirituality hav different definition and its definition usually changes over time.so i think it will be better if u define ur own idea of spirituality or better start using another term which best describe ur ideas.my opinion.just like pantheist uses god when making a discusion one might think dey believe in a supernatural god like d abrahamic religions cos god is usually used to denote a supernatural being therefore causing some sort of misunderstanding i stand to be corrected though.

Thanks man

This is exactly what spirituality is.
The idea of a process or journey of self-discovery and of learning not only who you are, but who you want to be.

The challenge of reaching beyond your current limits. This can include keeping an open mind, questioning current beliefs, or trying to better understand others' beliefs.

A connectedness to yourself and to others. Spirituality is personal, but it is also rooted in being connected with others and with the world around you. This connection can facilitate you finding "your place in the world."

Meaning, purpose, and direction. Spirituality, while it doesn't necessarily solve or reach conclusions, often embraces the concept of searching and moving forward in the direction of meaning, purpose, and direction for your life.

http://swc.osu.edu/about-us/spirituality/


And yes, I found out that the term God is really problematic. It can mean different thing to different people. I created a thread for this issue, read it here

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