First of all, I clarify that I hold no absolute authority on the true nature of this subject. My submission so far is based on long period of observations, trend, deductions, logic and undying interest in Yoruba spirituality, metaphysics and philosophy, specifically in Yoruba esoteric knowledge and Ifa.

The purpose of this thread is to light up the philosophical fact and basic knowledge of Ifa concept of Eledumare and Orisas. This is to separate it completely from Abrahamic concept and western depiction as they have infected, corrupted and core concept lost. Western education has forcefully depict Orisa as monsters or being living in the sky. Yoruba conception is like eatable vegetable which foreign weeds grow alongside with. This weed is both making the vegetable unrecognise to the farmer as it cover vegetable up (making them ignore the farm and vegetable), it stealing it nutrient and killing the vegetable. As a good farmer, you dont need to destroy whole field because of bush of weed, you need to clear out the vegetable from the weed.....make it grow and it will be good food for ya....finally, digest vegetable.


[size=28pt]ELEDUMARE[/size]

We cant view Yoruba Orisa from the western angle and get the real conception of it. Also we cant apply the western/Arabian concept of God to that of Yoruba race as it will divert the whole term off it reality part or sink it into ocean of confusion. Before christianity and Islam came, Olorun had been the tone of the word used for Olodumare among other name like Eleda, Obaorun, Ogaogo, Alabalase, Atererekaye, Oba Arinurode, Oba Olumo Okan, Alewilese, Oba Adakedajo, Oyigiyigi, Oba Aiiri, Oba Awamaridi and many other attributes.

The thought of Yoruba on the term is that OLORUN OR ELEDUMARE is an infinite mind which cannot be understood and because of this, they show higher respect (not mentioning name as per speaking with mates) to admire, honor and venerate the vastness and intelligence in the universe.

Honouring/ praising title like Eleda (mean the creator of Orun :celestial sphere and Earth); Oyigiyigi (the infinity that doesn't have comparability); Oba Amaridi (He that cannot be fully understood); Alabalase (He who have all authorities and order); Baba (where all life sprang from); Elemi (He who owns spirit : life force) and Atererekaye (infinite vastness).

ELEDUMARE = Ele + Odu + Mare .............. Ele = piece patched upon; Odu = to make; and Mare = The act of making infinite possibilities. There Eledumare mean the piece patched upon to make/act of making infinite possibilites.


Elaborating the fact behind Eledumare

In this sense, the word Eledumare is not indicative of a natural belief in supreme deity. Yoruba people are using this to describe their perspective of the cosmic singularity where every energies, elements and forces flow down from. The physical world, including all the space, time and matter was created out of a cosmic singularity known commonly as Big Bang. So from Eledumare flows down energies and forces.....Modern science tell us that matter is just condensed energy. Everything in universe composes energy. So we are all microcosm part of Eledumare. Within the body of Eledumare, all things both abstract and concreate are cells. Each and every animal, vegetable, mineral, thought, feeling, idea, emotion and concept has it own Ashe (energy) and therefore contributed to the whole that is Eledumare.

[size=28pt]ORISHA[/size]


From the western sense, Orisha is mostly depicted as anthropomorphic demi-gods who bear human characteristics and have more supernatural potentials. Some folks see Orisa as a monster, demon or invisible body who cause harm. Nollywood especially depicted Eshu as one potbelly man with dark skin and a big stick in his hand who kills around. This has been corruptions and misconception of grounded perspective of Yoruba thought. And base on this topic, if you still holding onto the thought that Orisha is an aged man living behind air, I advise you trash this misconception and western religion thinking as you might not understand bit of this thread.

Orisa is fully explained in patakis (allegory) of Yoruba people. It is believe that in the primordial period, Orunmila created consciousness in the heaven. After a long period, he poured this created consciousness into Earth for all active forces to search and find them. Among those that were sent, there are forces with potential which they used as aid in their search job. Those that O ri sha meaning found and selectively pick consciousness become Orisha. They become powerful before human and are praised till date.

It had been explained that Eledumare is the totality of all therein in the universe. Certain constellation of energies bear within their structure on assortment of related cells that together create a force of divinity called an Orisa which can be defined as the facet of Eledumare. Each of there constellations of energies, while made up of many different individual components, has it own, for the lack of a better word, personality. Ogun mean chemical element called Iron..... The term Orisha can be broken up into two parts..... ori, which mean head or consciousness and sha which mean selected. Therefore an Orisha is a selected consciousness within the great infinite consciousnes known as Eledumare.

The primary forces associated with each Orisha are usually either those found in the natural world or those that related to the human condition. In the natural world, individual Orishas are associated with such forces such as fire, water, earth, air, kingdom and so on. These same orisha also have their association with some element of day-to-day human life : such as love, wealth, sickness or health.

Most Aborisa relate to Orisha in the form of anthropomorphic gods.... They are referred to in the familiar terms as parents, friends, and advisors. Patakis (allegory) are told of their exploits; these explain natural phenomena and illustrate proper ethical behaviour. It so pathetic that people deny Sango whose it patakis explained natural phenomenon as electric force.

The Orisha physical appearance and the behaviour or personality traits associated with them are indicative of the mental, physical, emotional, and natural domain with which they are associated. For example, Yemoja, the orisha of motherhood and sea is seen as a large-breasted and matronly woman, loving but also strict and demanding. Within her domain are the oceans and the water of the world from which the first life on earth issued forth. Yemoja here is not half human and half fish as most see it but body of water. Understanding more further on each orisha will unveil the reality about them.


EXPANDING ON EACH ORISHA


There are 401 orisha according to Ifa in Yoruba spirituality and metaphical thoughts. Example of this are Oyo, Sango, Ogun, Egungun, Eshu, Oba, Obatala, Olokun, Yemoja, Orunmila, Agemo, Orisha Oko, Orisa Ibeji, Osun and many others. Many published works are mostly by artists and antropologists who either lack real knowledge or had wrong conception by patching what is what with water. There are some exceptions when look from within. It is very difficult to understand any single Orisha without understanding all of them, and the metaphysical principles that they encompass. If you ever are possessed by one, you certainly will understand it better than anyone else. Anyway, base on this thread, I will concentrate on Obatala, Oduduwa, Yemoja, Ogun, Sango, Eshu and Orunmila/Ifa. We will buttress on Yoruba thoughts about each orisha and what really they mean.

Watching.....

[size=28pt]OBATALA OR ORISHA-NLA[/size]


The patakis (allegory) among the Yoruba people pictured Obatala as the most ranked Orisha among other orishas. He is the most powerful and take the lead among other orishas. He is either called Obatala which is creaked from Oba + Ita + Ala which mean king of the crossroads of the white light or could be called Orisha-nla which mean Orisa that is vastly expanded.

This same Orisha is seen as vice of Eledumare because he was created first and after his creation, Eledumare gave him power to help him in creation of other orisha and the universe which is the reason Obatala is called Atererekaye......omnipresent. In yoruba belief, Obatala is also known as Alamo rere meaning the good carver because he was permited to mould human. The Yoruba people mostly say that "ki se ebi elehin gan-n-gan, orisa lo se ti ko fi awo bo o" meaning It is not our family, it is the orisa that made us but didn't cover us with flesh. Obatala was the first Orisa Eledumare tasked to create the universe. He did accordingly as ordered but couldn't finish his task as he was drunk.....so he slept off.

The Aworo of Obatala mostly see him as deity of white clothes. Obatala doesn't want or take palm oil except pure/clean substance. The aworo of Obatala needs to put on white clothes including other Aborisa for celebrating him during festival. Pounded yam and white soup cooked with snail water and ori (potassium) made in white calabash is prepare for nourishing Obatala while his carved statue is clothed with white clothes, white head tie, white bead and in white painted shrine.


Elaborating the fact behind Obatala

From the patakis of Obatala, it was reviewed that Obatala from the elision of Oba Ita Ala meaning king of the cross roads of the white light. It was said that Obatala (light) was created by Eledumare (Cosmo singularity) which contributed to making universe. Western scientist deduce that the universe started out in the finite past fully explain in big bang theory which is the prevailing cosmological model that describes the early development of the Universe. The theory stated that universe according started out in the finite past with a minuscule size. The universe began by expanding from an infinitesimal volume with extremely high density and temperature (Obatala). Prior to this expansion, the universe at the beginning was a crowded light particles which is very hot. In that environment, the light particle constantly bumping, absorbing and re-emitting itself which spark explosion. Light from such an environment would have a blackbody spectrum's characteristic shape which will be preserved while the light particles travels through the expanding space which was the reason Yoruba people estimate that Obatala is Atererekaye meaning expand through the universe. The universe was initially significantly smaller than even a pore on your skin. With the big bang, the fabric of space itself began expanding like the surface of an inflating balloon – matter simply rode along the stretching space like dust on the balloon's surface. The big bang is not like an explosion of matter in otherwise empty space; rather, space itself began with the big bang and carried matter with it as it expanded. Physicists think that even time began with the big bang. Today, just about every scientist believes in the big bang model. This thousands year model of Yoruba people curled from spirituality propounded hypothesis through Ifa in Allegory form that Obatala (light particle) was first created by Eledumare....the initial cosmo spirituality and bang....the Obatala moved out for creation work and slept off....this is symbolic and mean the cooling state of the bang.

If we dont belief in Obatala, we cant deny light particle. Also Obatala is not a monster but a defined philosophical and natural phenomenon of light/Ala. The ethical behaviour of Obatala is wealth, health, purity and good morals. Metaphysical side of it is enlightenment, consciousness and live in light.

loving the thread egbon mi

[size=28pt]ODUDUWA[/size]


Oduduwa also known as Oodua appear in Oral tradition after the task of Obatala was perverted due to his drunken stupor. Obatala was unable to complete the task he was originally given. Eledumare then sent Oduduwa to save what was left of the mission. The name Oduduwa denotes "Odu ti o da Iwa" meaning the essence of behaviour. The name Oduduwa could also translate the black woman. O is ownership; Dudu is black. The word Oodu also mean womb. Thus Oduduwa means the black womb or black woman.

According to the patakis (allegory), Oduduwa is regarde as Atewonro which mean climbing down on chain. She took the calabash from Obatala which contain dust, snail shell and five toe pigeon.

A controversy comes in from oral history of the Oyo. Yoruba people recounts the coming of Oba Oduduwa from the east. It was accounted that Oduduwa came from Igodomigodo. Oduduwa was prince Ekaladerhan who left his royal father (last Ogoiso) after an enthroanment conflict that burst in the palace. He travelled from Igodomigodo toward west of Ile-Ife. History taught us that the exile prince learned alot in the forest as he travelled. This was how he perfected Oduduwa energetic force and became vessel of manifestation for this force. He healed lot of sick people when he got to Oyo and was fully praised for this till date.


ELABORATING THE FACT BEHIND ODUDUWA

Oduduwa is the power of the womb. Oduduwa represents omnipotency.....the ability to affect and reconstruct the physical reality at will. The energy of Oduduwa is similar to Obatala and Orunmila. From the spiritual hypothesis of how this universe came about, it was stated that Odua overtook Obatala (light) task because he was drunk. The polarity between Obatala and Oduduwa is a symbolic expression of the big bang model that light form matter and that matter dissipiate into light. Ifa thousands of years expresses the same concept by saying that light comes from darkness and that darkness comes from light. The reference to Obatala's drinking is a symbolic expression of the observation that movement from light to darkness and vice versa does not always take place in a smooth progression. Oduduwa is the womb of darkness through which all rebirth emerges. As the universe hotly expand, it cool with this dark energy to produce smallest atom. This cooling processes produced more cooled particles joined together to form simple elements. The elements is turn joined together to form stars, planets and comets. In time, certain stars collapsed, forming black holes that imploded in themselves until they created a fission reaction. This set huge clouds of complex elements throughout the universe. It was a cloud of complex elements that cooled to form solar system, and within solar system evolved the planet Earth and ecosystem that exist in it. Yoruba people estimated that it was through oduduwa (dark energy that cool) matters, physical planetary bodies and planet earth came. This thousands of years model correlate with modern scientific theory. This is the natural phenomenon of Oduduwa.

It kinda hard for yoruba person no matter what he believe to deny Oduduwa because this is yoruba and black man identity. Even if we have those that deny Oduduwa, for those that class it as demon or monsters, non can deny dark energy and cooling power of Oduduwa. Ethical behaviour is moral, evolution, rebirth and black identity. Metaphysical picture of Oduduwa is subconsciousness, creativity and live in dark.

[size=28pt]YEMOJA[/size]

Going by the yoruba spirituality creation of the world model, the Orishas were coming from Orun and met body of water. This is what the Yoruba people called Yemoja. There is a patakis (allegory) attached to how this woman came about. It was stated in the patakis that AGINJU and YEMOJA where the children of OBATALA AND ODUDUWA. Obatala was the father while Oduduwa was the mother. Obatala or Orisha-nla is the leader among male Orisa, while Oduduwa who was the wife lead the female orishas. Oduduwa here is compete different from the oral history that said Oduduwa is father of Yoruba people and the person that hosted Ife town.

The meaning of Aginju is forest or wild or jungle. There are possibilities that the primitive people of Yoruba people observed the Odan (jungle) and no other places was like it. Probably from experiencing plant growing out of earth, they were really marvel. This was how Aginju gradually became something venerated. But if we take a close look within this allegory, it glamouring that Orisa Ile (earth) thats called Aginju. Farmers still venerate Orisa Ile but most people are forgetting or not recognising it anymore.

Yemoja which is the daughter of Obatala and Oduduwa was that which patakis said it deity of water. Yemoja is from the elision of yeye omo eja which mean our mother whose children are as numerous as there are fish. She was personalized as a woman ebony of color with full large breast who nurture the world. It was said that during the days of Yemoja, ladies were scanty. Due to this reason, Yemoja had sex with her brother Aginju which produce her a son called Orungan. Orungan grew very fast to adult, he looked around and couldn't find a female to have sex with so this made him to bed his mother Yemoja. This is abomination and brought lot of confusion to Yemoja which made her vacate from the community of Orisha to desert. Also, Orungan had bad feelings about what he did so if planned to track his mother and kill her. After some days of tracking, he found his mother in the desert but unfortunately for him, his mother took to her heed and escaped on sighting him. The patakis (allegory) made us to understand that on course of her escape, she fell down cause she was weak. On the very spot she fell, her stomach burst open from which spani the sixteen orisas [Olosa, (the orisa of Osa).... Olokun (the orisa of Okun)..... Dada (the orisa of vegetation).... Osun (the orisa of Osun)..... Aje Saluga (the orisa of weath/cowries).... Osoosi (orisa of hunting).... etc]



Elaborating the fact behind Yemoja

From the patakis, we learnt that Yemoja is a body of water which birthed salty sea, fresh water and mother of all life. Modern science taught us that life sprang out of water. Green plants and many terrestial life came out of primordial soup which is yemoja. The patakis also hold that Yemoja was running and fell which produce water body. Science implausibly made us understand that water originated purely from comets that fell on earth. Water content has been found almost everywhere. Earth's Oceans likely come from Icy comet which bombarded the earth during the early phase of earth's existence. Comets are large and consist mainly of ice. The natural phenomenon of Yemoja is nothing but Icy comet that collided with planet earth which produces water and serve as motherhood for every life.

Though some folks do think Yemoja is half fish and half human with golden crown on her head living beneath ocean. Some due to this misconception trash deny Yemoja but nobody can deny water as it contributed to our life. The ethical behaviour of Yemoja are motherhood, love, sexuality and birth.

[size=28pt]OGUN[/size]


We need to fully understand that there is clear difference between element/energy/force and been a vessel through which this energy/force manifested. Ogun according to the patakis by yoruba people mixed the energetic element nature with vessel (person). So the yoruba people interchanged Ogun of Element with Ogun-Ise of person.

Tabutu was the mother of Ogun, Ororinna as well is his father. Ogun was a brave and powerful hunter. So oral history have say on person while Oral tradition speak of Ogun the Iron element.

The patakis (allegory) made us to understand that in the early period of Orun and Aye, the Orisas were journeying down to earth but halt when they couldn't continue any further because Igbo......Aginju (bush/forest) blocked their path. Obatala came out first to force his way through this forest so as to make way for other orisa but the cutlass with him couldn't make him succeed. After this, it was Ogun who faced the forest and clear a large path for other orisa to march through. The other orisa grouped and honoured Ogun with a chieftain title in Ode-ife (earth). The title is osin-imole.

Oral history also explain Ogun-ise as hunter. It was this passion for hunting that made him leave Ile-Ife and moved toward the hill to suit himself for hunting game. After a very long period on this hill, he decided to return to Ile-ife again. As he proceed to Ife with anger, he was clothed with palm font. This is the reason it said that on the day Ogun was returning from the hill, he wore fire robe and shirt of blood. At the middle of his journey, he diverted to Ire instead of the planned Ile-ife he was heading initially.

Ire is a small town in the premises of Ekiti. This is the town Ogun went and this is the reason he is called Ogun Onire. The oral history made us to know that Ogun fought many war and conquered lot of territory for Ire people. This is the primary reason he was home, honoured and venerated among Ire people till date. It noted that Ogun disappeared into Earth in Ire.....

The orisa who pave way for it colleague and worshipper is Ogun. This was the reason he is called Ogun, the man with two face edged cutlass, he cut bush with one and clear path with other. Every metal element belongs to Ogun. It is believe that after Orisa-nla created parts of the body, it is that crafty designation of human and other organism Ogun did. All those using iron in their workshop venerate Ogun..... He is both benevolent and malevolent. With which ever way, Ogun contributed to the development, he also bath with blood.


Elaborating the fact behind Ogun

Orisa Ogun is the scientific chemical element called Iron. We learnt from the patakis that Ogun paved way for other Orisha before they could make their way to Earth. Modern science tell us that Earth is composed of Iron (35%) elements that comprise not only the earth but also humans and other living organisms have it origin in the beginning of the universe. The illustration about Ogun as the orisa who cleared the bush appeared in science that stated that Iron is the most common element forming the planet earth as a whole, forming much of the earth's crust and inner core. Iron was produced in the nuclear fusion reaction before the collapse of supernova which lead to the explosive even that scatter it abundantly into space. The nuclear fusion reaction is Obatala but Ogun succeeded making earth crust and other more which fit in yoruba model of how earth came with modern science. More about Ogun (iron) is explained here.

We learnt also that Ogun crafty designed human after Obatala create the body. This is scientific Human Iron metabolism and it present in body system like hemoglobin in blood. This also spread toward organism both plant and animal. Everything is build up of iron.

Iron as explained on wiki perfectly describe the natural phenomenon of Orisa Ogun. The ethical behaviour of Ogun are braveness, creativity, courage, activeness and crafty/technological progresses.

Obviously, people think Ogun suck or bath with blood.......yes, knife cut animal throat, it weapon and metal tool which is Ogun. Car, plane and ship are Ogun.....it serve us both positively and negatively. However, Ogun is not a monster that asking for belief or faith....it Iron element and metal that you see around and embody. If you deny this, you cant deny Iron.

Ok na. Following

FOLYKAZE: First of all, I clarify that I hold no absolute authority on the true nature of this subject.

My submission so far is based on long period of observations, trend, deductions, logic and undying interest in Yoruba spirituality, metaphysics and philosophy, specifically in Yoruba esoteric knowledge and Ifa.

How many Literature of Yoruba Elders who are vast in ''Ise n Baye'' did you reviewed before you arrived @ your (ill) conclusions of you being the microcosm of Eledumare ?


2. Has any Agba/Awo ever confirmed to you that Eledumare doesn't exist but Totality of Human is Eledumare ?


He is even using ''LOGIC'' to analysed Esoteric belief !!! Then why ''esoteric'' when It could be logically deduced ?


Complete Nonsense of the Highest Order,attempting to brainwashed folks via validating Yoruba Esoteric Belief on Ill-Concieved Scientific Axioms !!! ..... He warned against abrahamaic but adhered to Scientific explanations .... Hypocrisy !!!


Microcosm ko, Metabolism ni , Total BullSh..it .... Science will only attempt to give explanation to Nature, Science can never answer completely all nature's phenomena !!!


Maaa waa keke re lo oo, even a Pry 5 Pupil must @ this ill-story full of misconceptions !!

donroxy:
How many Literature of Yoruba Elders who are vast in ''Ise n Baye'' did you reviewed before you arrived @ your (ill) conclusions of you being the microcosm of Eledumare ?


2. Has any Agba/Awo ever confirmed to you that Eledumare doesn't exist but Totality of Human is Eledumare ?


He is even using ''LOGIC'' to analysed Esoteric belief !!! Then why ''esoteric'' when It could be logically deduced ?


Complete Nonsense of the Highest Order,attempting to brainwashed folks via validating Yoruba Esoteric Belief on Ill-Concieved Scientific Axioms !!! ..... He warned against abrahamaic but adhered to Scientific explanations .... Hypocrisy !!!


Microcosm ko, Metabolism ni , Total BullSh..it .... Science will only attempt to give explanation to Nature, Science can never answer completely all nature's phenomena !!!


Maaa waa keke re lo oo, even a Pry 5 Pupil must @ this ill-story full of misconceptions !!

So what do know that folykaze doesn't know? Let's see ur own concepts

macof:
So what do know that folykaze doesn't know? Let's see ur own concepts

stop being f.oolis.h and check what U quoted,U would see ''three questions'' there begging to be answered ?
So, a logical man will answer me first before asking me further questions


Why do you guys attached specificity to esotericism ? ,
then what makes it esoteric if it is as simple as Op made us believed ?


It only leads to more problem for you when U re trying to encapsulate Esoterism within the scope of Science !!! It was tagged Esotericism because of its profoundness and above Logical comprehension !!


I'm not here for ''arguement nor I sabi brouhaha'' , I'm Just here to ask questions as I have represented my debate to my own satisfaction in those previous threads we had !!!


Yoruba people are also Monotheists as they belief in One Eledumare who is believed to be so ''vast'' as such could not be worshipped directly but through ''Lesser gods/Orishas''(PolyTheism) ''who have'' been divinely empowered by Olodumare/eledumare to serve as Intercessors !!! This is the basic, Abrahamaic frown against, as well as the modalities of worship !!!


What baffles me is just the resolution of FolyKaze, that The combination of all ''Ashe''/Energy/force of Orishas abi na Humans forms what Yoruba people tagged ''Eledumare'' as such, Eledumare doesn't exist as a SuperPower domiciled somewhere but Totality of HUMAN/Orishas Energy


The above paragraph is my own simple bone of contention, the rest shenanigans is outa my business ..... !!!


We all know the Earth derived Energy from the sun (pardon me I'm not a pure Scientist but Social Scientist) and it is possible for the earth to produce portion of its own Energy ,Can we resolved that The Totality of all Energy embedded in our Galaxy Equates Energy possesed by the SUN(our star) ? ..... (I rest ma case) !!

[size=28pt]SANGO[/size]


Sango is an orisa that encompass fear. His action and the way he speak spark fear among people and other orisa because oral history reveal that sango embodied flesh through which he extisted as person. Oral history also reveal that Oranyan is his son and he is married to Oyo, Osun and Oba.

According to the Oral tradition, sango was the king of Oyo-ile which is called 'Eyeo or Katunga' at his reigning days. As a king, he is very powerful and brave. He love displaying his power to his people. Oral tradition also reveal that when he engage his people angrily, fire emit from his mouth.

The patakis (allegory) said that sango caused a fight among his chief which led to the murdering of each other. Instead of sango to stop this conflict, he fueled it causing more violence and hot disagreement. After this information got to the town, people began to say bad thing about him. It took not too long when rebels appear. When this pressure got so hard for him, sango ran away from Oyo. On the course of his journey, he planned within himself on getting close to Ayan tree where he hanged himself. This was where sango ended his journey.

Information got to Oyo people that he hanged. This give room for his integrity to be mocked. Though sango is dead biologically but living spiritually. As people mocked him, thunder strike and kill lot of people. The strike spark fire which burn many houses, farm and forest. This continue for some days which make people to consult the oracle and was revealed that the mock should be stop he they want the fire raze to stop. This was how people changed their word and Koso evolved. Koso mean didn't hang.


Elaborating the fact behind Sango


The Oriki will best do it.

Sango Onibon Orun (would mean he is the electric charge which form lightening and thunder in the sky. That is the lightning is like static electicity, it comes from the clouds and it makes some sort of static electricity. The thunder comes from the lightning, its so strong it makes the thunder. Electric charges in clouds form together to make lighting and when it strikes it sends off a sound wave which we hear as thunder so Sango is electric charges. Here we have complex force)

Ajalaji Oba Koso ( This is an excerpt from the Human nature who was a king in Oyo. In his kingship part when his people changed statement that their king didn't hang....here it we have human nature)

Okunrin alagbara inu afefe (this is give more meaning to thunder and explain it formed by the cloud. thunder is caused by lighting, which is a current of electrons from a negative pole to a positive one (cumulonimbus base to ground) the current use an ionized channel of air that has little electrical resistance. thunder is the rapid expansion of air as a result of warming caused by the electrical current. (sonic boom))

Ti i ti ibi gegele
ba oke ja (this something can attribute to his humanic nature and it energy nature.)

Now we realise that there are two Sango.....one is humanic and other is Energetic. Sango the man is special that he embodied the energy of lightening and fire in himself....before sango the man, it was the deity jakuta (sango the electric energy/force) that owned fire and lightening. As shown in his dance, he used ase (energy) from the sky and manifested it on an earthly plane...be mastered fire/­electricity....he mastered it so well when he dies he merged with it and became its same form of jakuta....sango is phenomenal because, He did what most human beings could not do...his ase revolutionized his society and inturn the world....he rejoins his source and becomes a form of sango....understand.....we are all stars.... So electricity embody as ase....brilliance, genius, revolution, pow­er, exitement, fear, energy.....thunder(also sango) incites fear, respect, strength....attention...did­ not sango as the embodiment of lightening and thunder represent all of those traits.?


• Lightning, as best modern science understand, is a channel of electrical charge.

• Thunder is a direct result of lightning.

• Lightning can have 100 million to 1 billion volts, and contains billions of watts.

• The earth benefits from lightning in several ways. First, lightning helps the Earth maintain electrical balance. The Earth is recharged by thunderstorms. The Earth's surface and the atmosphere conduct electricity easily. Thunderstorms help transfer the negative charges back to Earth (lightning is generally negatively charged). Without thunderstorms and lightning, the earth-atmosphere electrical balance would disappear in 5 minutes. Lightning also makes ozone-producing chemicals.

• One benefit of electricity to the human body that most people aren't aware of is stimulation of bone density/growth. Electrical current is involved in the function of all the nerves of the body.

If Yoruba person can deny Sango, they cant deny it benefit and electric charge

donroxy: stop being f.oolis.h and check what U quoted,U would see ''three questions'' there begging to be answered ?
So, a logical man will answer me first before asking me further questions

cant you make any statement without insulting or calling names?

Why do you guys attached specificity to esotericism ? ,
then what makes it esoteric if it is as simple as Op made us believed ?

Esoterism in that context mean there are more to it than I know. It not for Ogberi like me and you. And if you want to understand each orisa, go to igbodu. Despite, patakis (allegory) attached to each orisa is popular....in lighting this cuz people hold to it wrong conception.

It only leads to more problem for you when U re trying to encapsulate Esoterism within the scope of Science !!! It was tagged Esotericism because of its profoundness and above Logical comprehension !!

wrong..... Esoterism do with spirituality and spirituality do with science. Science have logical comprehension. And to the best I know, science didn't claim to know all, investigation is continuum. Evolve your mendula.

I'm not here for ''arguement nor I sabi brouhaha'' , I'm Just here to ask questions as I have represented my debate to my own satisfaction in those previous threads we had !!!

Ask question and not flood my thread with epistle.

Yoruba people are also Monotheists as they belief in One Eledumare who is believed to be so ''vast'' as such could not be worshipped directly but through ''Lesser gods/Orishas''(PolyTheism) ''who have'' been divinely empowered by Olodumare/eledumare to serve as Intercessors !!! This is the basic, Abrahamaic frown against, as well as the modalities of worship !!!

And an islamic brainwashed fanatist is saying yoruba are monotheist. Have you ever heard of Eledumare temple?

Yoruba people are naturalistic panthiest. Go and figure.

What baffles me is just the resolution of FolyKaze, that The combination of all ''Ashe''/Energy/force of Orishas abi na Humans forms what Yoruba people tagged ''Eledumare'' as such, Eledumare doesn't exist as a SuperPower domiciled somewhere but Totality of HUMAN/Orishas Energy

Do you know what ase is? Where does ase sprang from?

Have broken the etymology of that name for you. It hard to accept but do your research....

The above paragraph is my own simple bone of contention, the rest shenanigans is outa my business ..... !!!


We all know the Earth derived Energy from the sun (pardon me I'm not a pure Scientist but Social Scientist) and it is possible for the earth to produce portion of its own Energy ,Can we resolved that The Totality of all Energy embedded in our Galaxy Equates Energy possesed by the SUN(our star) ? ..... (I rest ma case) !!

"We are a way for the universe to know itself. Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return. And we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff," - carl sagan


This statement sums up the fact that the carbon, nitrogen and oxygen atoms in our bodies, as well as atoms of all other heavy elements, were created in previous generations of starsover 4.5 billion years ago. Because humans and every other animal as well as most of the matter on Earth contain these elements, we are literally made of star stuff.

Learn how to ask coherent questions and not epistical rants.

Cheers

donroxy:
How many Literature of Yoruba Elders who are vast in ''Ise n Baye'' did you reviewed before you arrived @ your (ill) conclusions of you being the microcosm of Eledumare ?

Do you need to read book before you understand something? This is not islam that is pieced into a book called quran. When dealing with Yoruba tradition.....you reason outside box.

2. Has any Agba/Awo ever confirmed to you that Eledumare doesn't exist but Totality of Human is Eledumare ?

where did I say Eledumare doesnt exist? This is stupid labelling and falsehood.

What is the difference between the sun is ball of gas and the star is a massive, luminous sphere of plasma held together by its own gravity?

Pls answer those if you want something from me.

He is even using ''LOGIC'' to analysed Esoteric belief !!! Then why ''esoteric'' when It could be logically deduced ?

Maybe you dont know what esoteric is.

Esoterism are only taught to or understood by members of a special group : hard to understand. : limited to a small number of people.

Is the patakis of Orisa esoteric? What about there oriki?

I understand there are more to this but that doesn't make people have zero understanding about Ogun as god of Iron.

Let me break it....as a social science student, you know what economics is. But there are more to economics which professors know and you dont. Does that mean you have no say on economics?

Dont wave my question if you want me to take you serious.

This also apply to awo and ogberi. Pounder on that man.

Complete Nonsense of the Highest Order,attempting to brainwashed folks via validating Yoruba Esoteric Belief on Ill-Concieved Scientific Axioms !!! ..... He warned against abrahamaic but adhered to Scientific explanations .... Hypocrisy !!!

Baseless attack. Explain your own conception about each Orisa and lets learn. You cant present anything but attacking. This is stupidity.

On first hand, been a muslim you a lost slave. This is how you belief oduduwa is from mecca. Only a foolish slave will force his history with foreign beings.

Eledumare is not Allah thats asking for your belief.

Eledumare doesn't care if you worship him and not asking for one.

Eledumare doesn't ask you to kill or bomb for been worship.

Eledumare doesn't threaten anybody with hell fire.

Eledumare have no temple or symbolic representation in shrine.

Eledumare doesn't have imaginary monsters....angels who talk around town.

Eledumare doesn't end up in pieces of book.

Eledumare doesn't ask for man made religion.

So why would I correlate Eledumare with Abrahamic Gods?


If the problem you having is relating science to spirituality. Have you heard this quote before : science is not only compatible with spirituality; it profound source of spirituality.

Out of spirituality come science. Yoruba spirituality made Osanyin (complex 3D sixth generation computer while modern science are still working on it.) Yoruba spirituality made Oro (talking with dead people...) while science are preparing to make such in russia.

It only a foolish person like you will leave your spirituality for man-made religion which caused nothing to humanity than war, terrorism and economic backwardness. A true son of Yoruba develop yoruba spirituality to the best he can....thats why we have Ifa on Iphone today. Isn't that scientifical? Stop stamping on what yours.....build it for mankind benefit.

Microcosm ko, Metabolism ni , Total BullSh..it .... Science will only attempt to give explanation to Nature, Science can never answer completely all nature's phenomena !!!

Ad-homien again.

What is wrong with microcosm.....mind providing it?

Where did I say science explain all?

Maaa waa keke re lo oo, even a Pry 5 Pupil must @ this ill-story full of misconceptions !!

rant....show us whats wrong before attacking.

Ok folly,
U win !!!

donroxy: Ok folly,
U win !!!

Egbon....spell my name correctly.

This is not about winning.....it about getting our fact straight. Cheers

Nice piece. I paid special attention to the piece on Eledumare which reinforced what I'd stated that God is understood as a conscious being, if you believe all you've written is fact, which I doubt, you are CERTAINLY NOT an atheist.

Uyi Iredia: Nice piece. I paid special attention to the piece on Eledumare which reinforced what I'd stated that God is understood as a conscious being, if you believe all you've written is fact, which I doubt, you are CERTAINLY NOT an atheist.

Iron, cosmic singularity, icy comet and electric charges make me atheist? Lol

it not about believing, it about knowing what they are....and what the patakis are saying about them.

There are more to this orisa in odu ifa.....it kinda complicated as some old buddy recite it. Like they said, only experiencing those orisa in igbodu can make me understand them.

Im spiritual atheist. Cheers

@ FOLYKAZE: Eledumare isn't an Orisa as you seem to suggest. He is the primogeniture of the Orisas, the first of which is Obatala.

Uyi Iredia: @ FOLYKAZE: Eledumare isn't an Orisa as you seem to suggest. He is the primogeniture of the Orisas, the first of which is Obatala.

I didn't say Eledumare is Orisa.

[size=28pt]ORUNMILA[/size]


When the word Orunmila is mentioned, people mostly draw attention to Ifa. Though it true that Orunmila brought Ifa divination system but they are different. Also their name can be used interchangeably. Orunmila came from the split of orun ni o mo eni ma la which mean heaven knows who will be saved or only heaven can effect salvation.

The patakis said alot about Orunmila. It was learnt through the patakis that Orunmila is the Obaorisa according to odu okaran meji. The reason for this is because he was present with Eledumare during the creation process of heaven and earth. This is why name/titles like Eleri Ipin (witness of destiny), Ogbon Ile-aye (the intelligence within the physical world), Opitan Ile-ife (historian of earth) were attached to him. Because of this, it is noted that Orunmila can provide account of the universe, each orisa and individual. Also orunmila is the mouth piece for other orisa. The manifestation of each orisa can be understood through orunmila and it going to brief things down to our own understanding. Amendment through ritual, guidance on relationship with orisa and understanding of one ori embodies orunmila which makes him king among other orisa.

The patakis further briefed how Orunmila came about. It said he was created by Eledumare alongside with other orisa and were sent to Ife-odaye where the all settled. Oke-igeti was where Orunmila settled on getting to earth before going to Oke-itase. This is the reason why Orunmila is praised as okunrin kukuru oke igeti. After some years, he left there for Ado where he live for longest period. This is the reason orunmila is praised as Ado nile Ifa.

patakis teach that Orunmila didn't live both Ife Odaye and Otu-ife only. Ode Oyan and Ode Onko were also part of the place he lived when on earth. He gave birth to seven children in Otu-ife, two in ode oyan and last child in ode onko.

It was said that Orunmila return to heaven when he got angered by one of his son. He left earth and everything became disastrous for those on earth. After serious appeal and sacrifices, Orunmila sent sixteen palm fruit for divination and communication with him. He promised we wont see him but will live within us and communicate through ikin with us.


Elaborating the fact behind Orunmila

The patakis (allegory) made us to understand that Orunmila is an elision of "Orun ni o mo eni ma la" which mean heaven knows who will be saved. It also said that Orunmila was with Eledumare during the creation time so he possessed info about the universe and what about it. So what is Orunmila......it is universal intelligence.

Universal intelligence is a term used by some to describe what they see as organisation or order of the universe. It picture on how things self-organise and co-evolve into ever more complex, intricately interwoven and mutually compatible forms. This intelligent energy operates the universe including human in it is derived from an infinite source called Orunmila (universal intelligence), and is, therefore, limited only by the abraht of the brain to transform and individualize it. A universal intelligence is in all matter and continually gives to it all its properties and actions thus maintaining it in existence.

Looking at our own body....there are form of intelligence and kinda design in it. Our cells down to DNA, our environment, planet earth and solar system operates within some physics law and nature rules even before we define this. The quantity of gas in the atmosphere, proper magnetic field, the content of water, nitrogen and oxygen, cell membrane reaction and automatic protection is pointing to high level of intelligence in nature. This is the natural phenomenon of Orunmila.

Ifa, a sophisticated and complex geomantic divinatory tool. Ifa is an ancient monument where the Culture of the Yoruba people is encapsulated enthroned and entombed. It is much more than Geomancy in that it is not only divinatory, it also embodies the Beliefs, Religion, History, Sociology and Ecology of the people. It therefore diagnoses, treats, adjudicates, arbitrates, guides, advises, instructs, teaches, explains as well attempts to unravel the mystery of existence in this world. A group of sixteen Ikin, commonly known as sacred palm nuts, which are used to create binary data.........

Microprocessor Assembly Code is written in Hexadecimal (base 16)

We do not need to separate science from spirituality in order to uphold the materialist power structure. Science is the profound source of spirituality. Technological revolution is embedded in Ifa....

Orunmila is not monster....orunmila is not a man living behind the wind. The patakis is giving metaphoric meaning pointing to universal intelligence. Even though we dont believe in Orunmila, non can deny universe in which we are micro compacted in format

@FOLYKAZE
What you wrote would have been profound but you unknowingly shot yourself several times based on the logic you devised to interpret Yoruba religion Belief System. I can't correct them here since I have done it already in my book: 'Why I Am Not A Complete Atheist' which I'm still revising and writing.

ghostofsparta:




@FOLYKAZE
What you wrote would have been profound but you unknowingly shot yourself several times based on the logic you devised to interpret Yoruba religion Belief System. I can't correct them here since I have done it already in my book: 'Why I Am Not A Complete Atheist' which I'm still revising and writing.

The Orisas in Yoruba spirituality manifest in different form. The best naturalistic explanation I wrote there were deduced from the 'yoruba spiritual creation theory' which I asked you about. I have read the patakis from books over and over, also got some oral patakis from an Ifa priest close to me here. I shared what I wrote there with my African American friend who is involve in Yoruba spirituality and she made me understand that there is more beyond what I wrote.

Yes I agree she said the fact. I agree with your point here but I pin pointed on best logical and naturalistic way through wish I can explain Orisa to people.... Atleast, draw them away from seeing orisa monsters or devil.

I am an atheist. I dont believe in God but Know there is Eledumare and Orisa. They aint humanoid to me but energy and forces. Also there is a plain difference between believing and knowing. I best tag myself as spiritual atheist.

I will love to read your book. Also have been studying deep into Yoruba spirituality and wish to understand much about Ifa. There is also one thing that is holding me back from declaring myself as pagan. But am very sure my journey is driving at my ancestral belief.

Cheers

It's glad to know you are at least trying to present our belief system in a way it will be comprehensible to someone unfamiliar or confused about IFA and the Orishas. However, you are unknowingly complicating and painting it with many bull's eye that scientists, humanists and skeptics would hit and dismiss over some of the interpretations you provided.

IFA as a subject is something not even Einstein or Kant can analyse or derive a particular doctrine from. Ifa is extremely wide and intricated that it would take someone or group of intellectual with high degree of scholarship in various subjects to truly interpret and decipher some aspect of it. I know what I'm saying because I'm attempting it too, and even without plunging into it yet with its practitioners, I can tell you enough to understand what it is actually meant by ori, difference between orisha and Irunmole since a lot tend to confuse them with each other. There are many things you are incorrect about. But you have my support in trying to enlighten others.

ghostofsparta: It's glad to know you are at least trying to present our belief system in a way it will be comprehensible to someone unfamiliar or confused about IFA and the Orishas. However, you are unknowingly complicating and painting it with many bull's eye that scientists, humanists and skeptics would hit and dismiss over some of the interpretations you provided.

IFA as a subject is something not even Einstein or Kant can analyse or derive a particular doctrine from. Ifa is extremely wide and intricated that it would take someone or group of intellectual with high degree of scholarship in various subjects to truly interpret and decipher some aspect of it. I know what I'm saying because I'm attempting it too, and even without plunging into it yet with its practitioners, I can tell you enough to understand what it is actually meant by ori, difference between orisha and Irunmole since a lot tend to confuse them with each other. There are many things you are incorrect about. But you have my support in trying to enlighten others.

Ya, since the day I got hint from the Ifa priest in my hood, I have been interested in it. I have watched divinations and observed there accuracy. The poetic Odu is amazing too. I understand fully that Ifa is infinite which we with finite brain can not fully decipher. Even I observed babalawo helping each other cuz it more like they have grades and understanding more than each others.

The priest here told me it something person learn till the last breathe so I understand where you driving at. Despite we can still explain one or two things in a simple form from Ifa. Have tried to study from this man through observing but it seem he is holding the basis as secret to himself. I know Odu on Opele but cant explain it or give it meaning. The man said I should be initiated for full understanding....though this can be possible only if I move out of my parents circle.

I will appreciate it if you will fill some wholes in my OP. Or would wait to read your book so as to have more knowledge and do corrections to my misconception. Thanks

My wife got so angry because i was clapping so loud after reading just the first post. It is beautiful brother. The great African Traditional Religion which is infact mathematics and sciences 100%.

Eleda is different from Olorun. and Orisha is the same as Eloheim. Eloheim is a plural.
Devil is not Esu atall. and Esu is not black and white, Esu is black, the gatekeeper (ether, space which is black), without ether, light can't be seen.

When the people are joined together as one in what is called "Divine unity", yet as different indidvidual, Their minds expand so much that it exceed the edges of the universe till the entire universe get so small which turns into a new earth (first earth), Their minds expands so much that it condenses into 7 layers of how the new universe around the first earth is made.

Their minds condenses into
1) Magnetism (Obatala), it further condenses into
2) Electricity (Sango), condenses further into
3) Light (Oshosi), and further into
4) Ether (Eshu), and further
5) Gas (Osun)
6) Liquid (Yemoja)
7) Solid (ogun)

The 4th one is Eshu, the gateway seperating 5, 6, 7, from 3, 2, 1.

This 4th is the one the people from the previous universe is what they made their bodies from, that is why the owners or the aboringinal of the earth are Black people.

devil in yoruba simply means "ika", trouble maker or mischief maker.

correct me please if i'm mistaken, and i like to know or learn more (lol, i haven't read all yet though), i have come to learn that The African religion is not atall achaic in any sense, for those who still practice the original stuff, which is very hidden, but they are now revealling the sacred universal truth.

Obatala is more associated with illuminating light, I think Osoosi is the brother of the moonlight(Osupa Olonroro)
but what exactly is the relationship between magnetism and light? That u associate magnetism to Obatala

@Gatiano

In my very limited knowledge of the ancient and ancestral science and history is that Obatala is the head and the most wise of The 7. In the sense that he always knows how to attract friendship (i do not know other words) within the 7 and knows also how to repel tension among the 7, which is one of the characteristics of magnetism.
Without magnetism, we won't have compounds such as the human body, the water, the planets, the solar systems, candles, even love or lust.

So that illuminating light may represent wisdom.

Oshosi is very fast, fast as light. The moon, The sun, the star might all be his brothers and sisters. All the moon,sun and planets and everything within it are binding together by Magnetism, throught out the entire universe.

The relationship between Obatala and Oshosi or Magnetism and Light, is that without ether, there could be light but it would not be seen by nobody. because light can only travel in space which is also Ether. Ether here is Eshu.

We have always heard about a new planet just appearing by the modern scientists, what they do not know infact is that the planet had been there all along from eons of years, only not surrounded by ether.

correct me brother, if i'm wrong, The universal truth is necessary for the blackman's growth and development.

macof:
Obatala is more associated with illuminating light, I think Osoosi is the brother of the moonlight(Osupa Olonroro)
but what exactly is the relationship between magnetism and light? That u associate magnetism to Obatala

@Gatiano

Nice Thread.

gatiano:
In my very limited knowledge of the ancient and ancestral science and history is that Obatala is the head and the most wise of The 7. In the sense that he always knows how to attract friendship (i do not know other words) within the 7 and knows also how to repel tension among the 7, which is one of the characteristics of magnetism.
Without magnetism, we won't have compounds such as the human body, the water, the planets, the solar systems, candles, even love or lust.

So that illuminating light may represent wisdom.

Oshosi is very fast, fast as light. The moon, The sun, the star might all be his brothers and sisters. All the moon,sun and planets and everything within it are binding together by Magnetism, throught out the entire universe.

The relationship between Obatala and Oshosi or Magnetism and Light, is that without ether, there could be light but it would not be seen by nobody. because light can only travel in space which is also Ether. Ether here is Eshu.

We have always heard about a new planet just appearing by the modern scientists, what they do not know infact is that the planet had been there all along from eons of years, only not surrounded by ether.

correct me brother, if i'm wrong, The universal truth is necessary for the blackman's growth and development.

@ the emboldened: What is that? Who are the 7? Repel and attract what friendship?

As interesting as this thread appears to be, I must say the attempt to explain these gods with science makes no sense. I mean, there are more to these gods which are unrelated to sceience and which it cannot explain and goes beyond the magnetism, atoms, comets etc

@ OP (FolyKaze): I also see distortion of or bending histories attached to these gods in order to serve your purpose of scientific approach. For example Obatala according to you is 'Oba ita ala' - King of the cross roads of white light (which is very false) while in actual sense it is 'Oba ti ala' - King of White clothes. Whichever way you put it, 'Ala' means white cloth not light! How then does white cloth then relate to your light in creation theory? Please do not arrogate 'ala' white cloth to mean light, it is fraud. Obatala is also known as Orisa Popo (its actual name in another Yoruba town, relate this name to creation?).

Oduduwa/Odu to da Iwa: breaking Odu to O dudu is utter rubbish and driving it to mean black woman is major falsehood.

Orunmila: orun lo mo eni to ma la - 'la' here means succeed/successful or make it not 'saved'

Overral, your thread only shows you have an idea of Isese and your interest in it but attaching it to science is myopic considering you'd only take what you need from the whole to explain each god as a whole scientifically which makes no sense because you're expected to explain them scientifically in completion.

Lastly, bending interpretation of names to suit your thesis collapses everything and makes it unworthy of being taken serious but at least I admire the fact that you are trying to un-securitize these deities that Nollywood abd Abrahamic religion have almost succeeded in demonizing.

Eeepa Oris!

I did not miss Obatala has the king of the cross roads, I know that Obatala is associated with white clothes. I do not see them as in relation to science. Amongst many things, they are supreme scientists.

i just decided to talk a little about Eshu representing ether, and without ether, light can't be seen even when light is present.

Thankyou very much for the corrections.

9jacrip:


@ the emboldened: What is that? Who are the 7? Repel and attract what friendship?

As interesting as this thread appears to be, I must say the attempt to explain these gods with science makes no sense. I mean, there are more to these gods which are unrelated to sceience and which it cannot explain and goes beyond the magnetism, atoms, comets etc

I also see distortion of or bending histories attached to these gods in order to serve your purpose of scientific approach. For example Obatala according to you is 'Oba ita ala' - King of the cross roads of white light (which is very false) while in actual sense it is 'Oba ti ala' - King of White clothes. Whichever way you put it, 'Ala' means white cloth not light! How then does white cloth then relate to your light in creation theory? Please do not arrogate 'ala' white cloth to mean light, it is fraud. Obatala is also known as Orisa Popo (its actual name in another Yoruba town, relate this name to creation?).

Overral, your thread only shows you have an idea of Isese and your interest in it but attaching it to science is myopic considering you'd only take what you need from the whole to explain each god as a whole scientifically which makes no sense because you're expected to explain them scientifically in completion.

Lastly, bending interpretation of names to suit your thesis collapses everything and makes it unworthy of being taken serious.