Logicboy03:


wow....just wow....a true muslim indeed

whats wrong with this dude. cant yu eva leave prejudice outta ds kinda matter?....if am wrong, i'm responsible for it not islam

beejaay:

why are u showing your terrorism tendency? why cant you read through what he posted with tabula raza mindset and findout for yourself instead of shouting someone else down from airing his view

i thought you were a muslim...

babylolaroy:
i thought you were a muslim...

and how do u know am nt a muslim?? this is what u said

babylolaroy: i am suppressing the need to insult you wallahil Azeem. i feel so inclined to break your miserable head..i wont and dats only because I Cant

tell me if that is not being violent and intolerance..... u felt inclined to break someones head

beejaay:

and how do u know am nt a muslim?? this is what u said



tell me if that is not being violent and intolerance..... u felt inclined to break someones head

dnt be impossible. it is normal to want to do it, anybody may want to do it..i restrained and i didnt. Thats what yu shud notice
besides if yu were a muslim, you wudnt approach it d way yu did.

babylolaroy:
whats wrong with this dude. cant yu eva leave prejudice outta ds kinda matter?....if am wrong, i'm responsible for it not islam

Because he's been programmed like that. Its like you are talking with a wall. Ask him simple questions and he would gladly side step it and go on ,on and on saying nothing. I will advise you to ignore him. It's not worth your stress. I guess he's bored and needs someone to keep him busy and i trust you have much important things than that. Salam.

onegig: Because he's been programmed like that. Its like you are talking with a wall. Ask him simple questions and he would gladly side step it and go on ,on and on saying nothing. I will advise you to ignore him. It's not worth your stress. I guess he's bored and needs someone to keep him busy and i trust you have much important things than that. Salam.

wa alaykum salam. its my utmost pleasure to have you come around. i knew there had to be a human being around here.

This is interesting.

@ Op thanks for that enlightening info, good job.

usermane: ,Thanks a lot Beejaay and Logicbwoy. I am happy at least a few persons appreciate GOD.
As for tbaba,babylolaroy,akin di archi, i am not seeking attention or here to mislead, and yes, i took my time to cook this. If i see things going contrary to Islam, i have to comment, doubting thomas will learn. I am not here to shove my findings down anybody 's throat. The truth is what i seek and those who take this thread professionaly will have no issue.

I welcome criticisms or insults from those who take things personal. Insult won't hurt me. I am glad a few persons, even non muslims have learnt a thing.

It appears that you are a Quranist, which would put you outside of Islam in the eyes of most Muslims.

In any case, I personally believe that Islam was created bit by bit over time, including the Quran, by a number of people, over 100+ years, and that Muhammad may indeed have claimed to be a sort of prophet, but that his followers created much of what was attributed to him.

What is really strange about all ancient religions is that there is virtually NO contemporary documentation of these so called great prophets. If Muhammad and Jesus were so obviously prophets (son of god?), then why is there virtual silence on the part of the people around them for 50 years? Muhammad died in 632 yet there is no historical mention of him until at least 679! Even after the Arabs took much of the eastern Byzantine empire in 637, the Byzantines mention conquests but nothing about a new religion or prophet. The earliest Qurans that are currently in existence date from around 680 or later. Why the long silence?

The same is true of Christianity. Basically nothing for 20 years or so after Jesus death (the letters of Paul) and then another 30 years before we get a biography of Jesus (Gospels). Enough time to create a myth-based religion?

The OP chronicled my life as a moslem (now 100% atheist) i recall changing from my arabic first name to my yoruba middle name immediately i left secondary school. all my duas and intentions b4 salat were also said in yoruba. A lot of muslims have been brainwashed to believe that arabic is "golden" that it is the most beautiful language in the world. if you want to know the extent of this print BULL SH*T in arabic on a paper and try to burn that paper in a market in sokoto or kano.

This is one reason why even though i acknowledge the Qur'an and those scriptures sent before it, i hate being asked ;"are you a muslim or not?". The word "muslim" has become polluted and perverted overtime by people. Even boko haram call themselves muslims.
The truth is that if you can come here criticising non muslims then you should be warned; those who live in glass houses musn't throw stones. By the comments so far it seem,the muslims in Islam section can't stand criticism. Is it not that every time persons come with genuine criticism of your doctrines which you can't justify, some of those persons' posts you hid,others you banned?

usermane:
This is one reason why even though i acknowledge the Qur'an and those scriptures sent before it, i hate being asked ;"are you a muslim or not?". The word "muslim" has become polluted and perverted overtime by people. Even boko haram call themselves muslims.
The truth is that if you can come here criticising non muslims then you should be warned; those who live in glass houses musn't throw stones. By the comments so far it seem,the muslims in Islam section can't stand criticism. Is it not that every time persons come with genuine criticism of your doctrines which you can't justify, some of those persons' posts you hid,others you banned?

Well said bro.

Don't mind the haters.

HumbledbYGrace: This is interesting.

@ Op thanks for that enlightening info, good job.

Thanks very much mod, am glad you have learn't from it.

Am catholic and I know what it means for my faith to be mis-understood and our actions mis-intpreted. Most times people do it out of ignorance and just pure prejudice. It falls on us as adherents of the faith to correct them and place them on the right part.
Most of what we practice in our religions are a result of culture in our locality. The OP has highlighted some key issues which am sure a lot of young muslims are asking themselves, these questions need answers and reasonable answers at that not threats of beating up or what ave you. Tbaba has responded to that of the use of Arabic as the language of Islam, I totally agree with him cos the Catholic Church uses latin a lot( a dead language) and that is because most english translations do not carry the full weight and meaning of the same word in Latin.
Lemme not hear anybody threatened anybody else on this thread again. Go and do your research and come and educate the OP, and others who may be reading this.

@usermane are you a Nigerian? Do you hate being asked if your one?

What tribe do you belong too? Do you have one? Do you like being asked?

Are you black? Do you hate being asked if your one.

What is your identity? How do you identify yourself?

babestell: Am catholic and I know what it means for my faith to be mis-understood and our actions mis-intpreted. Most times people do it out of ignorance and just pure prejudice. It falls on us as adherents of the faith to correct them and place them on the right part.
Most of what we practice in our religions are a result of culture in our locality. The OP has highlighted some key issues which am sure a lot of young muslims are asking themselves, these questions need answers and reasonable answers at that not threats of beating up or what ave you. Tbaba has responded to that of the use of Arabic as the language of Islam, I totally agree with him cos the Catholic Church uses latin a lot( a dead language) and that is because most english translations do not carry the full weight and meaning of the same word in Latin.
Lemme not hear anybody threatened anybody else on this thread again. Go and do your research and come and educate the OP, and others who may be reading this.

tbaba has a point, yeah but it is not that i haven't been doing my homework. It is true that some arabic words are difficult to translate into English but then again, how many of such words are we talking of? And how much does it affect the message or meaning of the verses? The message of GOD is not in the language. It is reasoning and sincerity. I have seen muslims who don't understand arabic, yet they understand the Qur'an better than some who understand arabic. Qur'an 56:79.

Babestell, do you think am a non muslim who is misunderstanding sb elses faith?

In addition to what tbaba said,

The misconception you wrote about Muslims reciting the Qur'an better in Arabic.

1. Memorization of the Qur'an in Arabic language is so much easier, than memorizing it in English, Yoruba, Hausa etc. I have NEVER come across someone who memorized the whole Qur'an in another language, infact I would love to hear or read about someone who did.

If someone understands the Arabic language it would be better if he recited it in arabic, he would have a deeper and better understanding of the Quran, that's the language of the Quran.

However if he doesn't understand Arabic, he can memorize the Qur'an in arabic, and read the Qur'an in the language he understands so he understands what he's reading, if he reads it only in arabic, when he doesn't understand the language, how then does he understands what he's reading?

I.e there are proverbs you hear in Yoruba language, when it's translated you might not understand it fully except you understand the language.

I did take my time to go through the op 10 myths, and to a large extent I disagree with them, but I do not av sufficient references for my opinions. I only urged dat d op wud read tbaba's post with genuity too, its not by force where everyone must be on my school of thought.
As for me, even though I don't understand arabic language, I av memorised the 1st surah and d last 27 surah both in arabic and their close translations, and I listen to scholars discuss d indebt meanings of the quan's surah. In islam we are madated to seek knowledge as long as we live and learning other languages is highly recommende so as to enble us to be able to relate wit more pple.
Even if it isn't compusory to learn arabic as u say, I would argue that learning the language would make one less vulnerable to being manipulated by extremists anyway...so at d end of the day its a win win situation for one to learn arabic. Its not like we are being asked to desert our own languages.
As regards the names...I agree dat it isn't "compusory" to change names to arabic names...but u av to realise that there are some tins dat pple do for the purpose of gaining the face of Allah dat seem irrelevant, but dat irrelevant deed may be loved by Allah, so we shudnt belittle anytin a person does for d sake of Allah, be it a change of name or refusing to step on an ant in his path. I happen to have a last name in yoruba and middle name in arabic which both av good meanings, and I use them both. Same with making dua, I make dua in both arabic and english and I av made a conscious effort to know the meaning of most of the dua I recite.
The key is to not be extreme in either direction, I.e don't say only arabic is accepted and don't totally negate the rrelevance of arabic.
We av to be careful not to make the deen hard for ourselves by making what Allah made permissible for us unlawful....
There are other points that do not agree wit but those wud really need references and I don't wanna delve into matters that I am not qualified to talk about without authority, so asalam alaykum

Sissie: @usermane are you a Nigerian? Do you hate being asked if your one?

What tribe do you belong too? Do you have one? Do you like being asked?

Are you black? Do you hate being asked if your one.

What is your identity? How do you identify yourself?

Thank Sissie. I am a Nigerian,i don't hate being asked if i am one though i am not proud of that.
In the case of asking whether am a muslim, it is a different story. A Nigerian is just the name of someone from Nigeria. A muslim should be far greater than that. "MUSLIM" is not just a name. It is a description of a monotheist, a person who submits to GOD alone,who believes in Ressurection and who strives to be righteous. Now you tell me, is that the societal understanding of that word?

The misconception about supplicating in arabic,

One can supplicate in any language he/she understands, it doesn't have to be in arabic.

usermane:

tbaba has a point, yeah but it is not that i haven't been doing my homework. It is true that some arabic words are difficult to translate into English but then again, how many of such words are we talking of? And how much does it affect the message or meaning of the verses? The message of GOD is not in the language. It is reasoning and sincerity. I have seen muslims who don't understand arabic, yet they understand the Qur'an better than some who understand arabic. Qur'an 56:79.

Babestell, do you think am a non muslim who is misunderstanding sb elses faith?

Actually I think you are a muslim who has decided to question the traditions on ground, my post was for those who support vigorously the tenets you have dared to challenge, they need to give you and other muslims a reason to continue to practice your faith in a certain manner. The homework assigment is for those who wanna break your head for daring to say what is in your mind.

usermane:

Thank Sissie. I am a Nigerian,i don't hate being asked if i am one though i am not proud of that.
In the case of asking whether am a muslim, it is a different story. A Nigerian is just the name of someone from Nigeria. A muslim should be far greater than that. "MUSLIM" is not just a name. It is a description of a monotheist, a person who submits to GOD alone,who believes in Ressurection and who strives to be righteous. Now you tell me, is that the societal understanding of that word?

I agree being a Muslim is far greater, but if you are ok being asked about a lesser identity, I.e your state of origin, country e.t.c, (outside Nigeria, Nigerians have a bad reputation in many countries and people won't even want to do business with you), now to talk about a far greater identity.

What do you understand about the name Muslim? Independent of what the society or some few people say about Muslims. You defined who a Muslim, is so tell me based on this is it who you are?

Yes Muslims get bad press, different people say things about us. But in the society in general in the real world not on tv or NL, what do most people you encounter have to say about Muslims? What difference does it make to who you are? How do you correct the wrong mindset of this people?

Is the society understanding enough to make you HATE been asked or identified as one? I mean do people refuse to talk to you, have business dealings with you, avoid you like a plague because your Muslim?

babestell:
Actually I think you are a muslim who has decided to question the traditions on ground, my post was for those who support vigorously the tenets you have dared to challenge, they need to give you and other muslims a reason to continue to practice your faith in a certain manner. The homework assigment is for those who wanna break your head for daring to say what is in your mind.

Everyone knows that a knowlege of arabic, should be a bonus in understanding Qur'an but it is not a prerequisite. We see even muslims who understand arabic that adopt doctrines contrary to Qur'an, we see them misunderstand the context or message of verses. Abubakar Shekau,boko haram leader is an example, very fluent in arabic. You are a christian, why did Jesus criticise the pharisees so often so often for abusing the Torah? Don't the pharisees understand hebrew?

If you want to learn arabic, good luck, but don't keep drumming it on those who can't. I can read the Qur'an in arabic though

babestell: Am catholic and I know what it means for my faith to be mis-understood and our actions mis-intpreted. Most times people do it out of ignorance and just pure prejudice. It falls on us as adherents of the faith to correct them and place them on the right part.
Most of what we practice in our religions are a result of culture in our locality. The OP has highlighted some key issues which am sure a lot of young muslims are asking themselves, these questions need answers and reasonable answers at that not threats of beating up or what ave you. Tbaba has responded to that of the use of Arabic as the language of Islam, I totally agree with him cos the Catholic Church uses latin a lot( a dead language) and that is because most english translations do not carry the full weight and meaning of the same word in Latin.
Lemme not hear anybody threatened anybody else on this thread again. Go and do your research and come and educate the OP, and others who may be reading this.

Who told you that the bible was written in latin? lmao......misinformation

See this one.

At all asking peeps to clarify what the op has said. There's a difference between when you don't understand something and you outrightly come out saying you are indeed knowledgeable and what you say is the utter truth even when you give feeble reasons and you coming out to seek knowledge about something you don't really understand.

Starting from the topic you would have noticed he was already determined about his knowledge and wasn't here for a discussion. If he had named the topic " misconception I have noticed about islam" that would have been better . But he is here to gain support for his follies as you can see him shaking hands and recieving praises from his fellow brethren who swallow what he has said hook, line and sinker without a thought as to what he had said. Tell me , who would be ready to enlighten such a lost fellow?

He's on here seeking attention and i guess he's got what he wants. At op... I guess you know your LORD is above and you would give account of whatever you do or say. So maybe you cut short this feel good mission of yours and return back to your senses.

Logicboy03:


Who told you that the bible was written in latin? lmao......misinformation

See this one.

Please kindly highlight where I said the Bible was written in latin. Or where I even said Bible

babestell:
Please kindly highlight where I said the Bible was written in latin. Or where I even said Bible

You said the catholic church uses latin. And you were talking about translations

babestell: Am catholic and I know what it means for my faith to be mis-understood and our actions mis-intpreted. Most times people do it out of ignorance and just pure prejudice. It falls on us as adherents of the faith to correct them and place them on the right part.
Most of what we practice in our religions are a result of culture in our locality. The OP has highlighted some key issues which am sure a lot of young muslims are asking themselves, these questions need answers and reasonable answers at that not threats of beating up or what ave you. Tbaba has responded to that of the use of Arabic as the language of Islam, I totally agree with him cos the Catholic Church uses latin a lot( a dead language) and that is because most english translations do not carry the full weight and meaning of the same word in Latin.
Lemme not hear anybody threatened anybody else on this thread again. Go and do your research and come and educate the OP, and others who may be reading this.

TRANSLATIONS OF WHAT?
THE BIBLE OR SOME OTHER HOLY BOOK?

WHY ARE THEY USING LATIN?

onegig: At all asking peeps to clarify what the op has said. There's a difference between when you don't understand something and you outrightly come out saying you are indeed knowledgeable and what you say is the utter truth even when you give feeble reasons and you coming out to seek knowledge about something you don't really understand.

Starting from the topic you would have noticed he was already determined about his knowledge and wasn't here for a discussion. If he had named the topic " misconception I have noticed about islam" that would have been better . But he is here to gain support for his follies as you can see him shaking hands and recieving praises from his fellow brethren who swallow what he has said hook, line and sinker without a thought as to what he had said. Tell me , who would be ready to enlighten such a lost fellow?

He's on here seeking attention and i guess he's got what he wants. At op... I guess you know your LORD is above and you would give account of whatever you do or say. So maybe you cut short this feel good mission of yours and return back to your senses.

now go back re-read what you posted and tell us if u made any sense..... look beyound your nose...if u have anything contrary to what the op said, kindly refute it with fact.. the op is entitled to his opinions and we must respect that (respecting other peoples opinion is actually the first step towards becoming a muslim, towards becoming righteous)

Akin d archi: I did take my time to go through the op 10 myths, and to a large extent I disagree with them, but I do not av sufficient references for my opinions. I only urged dat d op wud read tbaba's post with genuity too, its not by force where everyone must be on my school of thought.
As for me, even though I don't understand arabic language, I av memorised the 1st surah and d last 27 surah both in arabic and their close translations, and I listen to scholars discuss d indebt meanings of the quan's surah. In islam we are madated to seek knowledge as long as we live and learning other languages is highly recommende so as to enble us to be able to relate wit more pple.
Even if it isn't compusory to learn arabic as u say, I would argue that learning the language would make one less vulnerable to being manipulated by extremists anyway...so at d end of the day its a win win situation for one to learn arabic. Its not like we are being asked to desert our own languages.
As regards the names...I agree dat it isn't "compusory" to change names to arabic names...but u av to realise that there are some tins dat pple do for the purpose of gaining the face of Allah dat seem irrelevant, but dat irrelevant deed may be loved by Allah, so we shudnt belittle anytin a person does for d sake of Allah, be it a change of name or refusing to step on an ant in his path. I happen to have a last name in yoruba and middle name in arabic which both av good meanings, and I use them both. Same with making dua, I make dua in both arabic and english and I av made a conscious effort to know the meaning of most of the dua I recite.
The key is to not be extreme in either direction, I.e don't say only arabic is accepted and don't totally negate the rrelevance of arabic.
We av to be careful not to make the deen hard for ourselves by making what Allah made permissible for us unlawful....
There are other points that do not agree wit but those wud really need references and I don't wanna delve into matters that I am not qualified to talk about without authority, so asalam alaykum

going by what you wrote, u and op are saying the samething.. op didnt condemn learning arabic or even reciting Quran in arabic, he is simply against shoving it down our throat that we must learn it else we are not a complete muslim

again about the issue of names, u bith are saying the same thing. he simply said no tribe is greater than the other and what is most important is the meaning of names not where it come from (he even gave example of Elizabeth and many other names)..

so bros u and op are in agreement but expressing it in different manner

The original Bible is not in Latin, but rather Hebrew and Koine Greek. However, those languages were not accessible to the Christians of the Western Roman Empire, and previous translations into Latin had been done in a piecemeal, haphazard fashion, and so once Christianity reached a critical mass in the west in the late 300s, a priest named (St.)Jerome was commissioned to create a single, comprehensive translation of the Bible into Latin so that people would understand it in Italy, Spain, France, etc. This version (the Vulgate) is the one that has been used by the Catholic Church ever since.

Logicboy03:


You said the catholic church uses latin. And you were talking about translations




TRANSLATIONS OF WHAT?
THE BIBLE OR SOME OTHER HOLY BOOK?

WHY ARE THEY USING LATIN?

You saw translations and you automatically assumed Bible, actually you are not wrong for that thought process.
The sacred liturgy and a lot of our prayers and music were originally in latin, also a lot of the early Church fathers wrote in latin. I was referring to this when I made the comments. Translating these into english or other languages resulted in different meanings.
Also see Onetrack's comment above for more clarification

onetrack: The original Bible is not in Latin, but rather Hebrew and Koine Greek. However, those languages were not accessible to the Christians of the Western Roman Empire, and previous translations into Latin had been done in a piecemeal, haphazard fashion, and so once Christianity reached a critical mass in the west in the late 300s, a priest named (St.)Jerome was commissioned to create a single, comprehensive translation of the Bible into Latin so that people would understand it in Italy, Spain, France, etc. This version (the Vulgate) is the one that has been used by the Catholic Church ever since.

Thank you very much