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Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Sloan: 6:55pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
agbameta: That is the US Republican Party mantra or sing-song they are just copying! LWKMD!! |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by MajeMedia: 7:01pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Ndigbo have had a long and turbulent history with taxes, and they're seen as culturally unjust due to the republican nature of our culture. Thus governments that plan on staying implement low taxes. If Igbos were pro-tax, Nigeria may still be a colony (Aba Woman's riots, attacks and rejection of warrant chiefs etc) If you notice developments in Igboland are more republican and in yoruba land they're more socialist. For example, Where a yoruba governor will implement a busing system run by the state, and igbo governor will buy buses (most often cars) and give it to private citizens to employ themselves (Abia, Anambra, Ebonyi). Yoruba governors are keen to building schools and managing them. Igbo governors are keen to building schools and hand them to private hands or back to churches (Abia, Anambra) Some governments in igboland have even privatized radical elements of government. Rochas Okorocha has sold all government enterprises, and has pressured universities to fund themselves by starting their own palm plantations. Anambra and Abia have handed the states schools back to churches and missionaries that build them Poverty is not as stark in igboland as it is in Yoruba land. Most people can sustain themselves and earn an income. You won't see beggars. Thus the government doesn't need to maintain an expensive welfare state. The state's with the most poverty in Igbo land, Ebonyi and Enugu, as a result have to use more government intervention and thus per capita their IGR is higher because the government does more. Anambra, government or not, will function the exact same way because it's highly republican and entrepreneurial. Abia even more so. So the end result is the IGR of igbo state can be low and tax policy low to encourage entrepreneurship and do so. The Igbo populace don't like the idea of tax, credit and debt. The igbo states thus have low taxes, don't borrow (except with the mismanagement of Rochas Okorocha who is considered a radical element), and have the lowest debts in the country. Both methods work, but they're just different philosophies of how to govern and the beauty of federalism is it allows the country to be a laboratory of ideas and different methods. Let the best man win, the competition is healthy, but it's unfair to us IGR to measure economic strength. We all know Ebonyi isn't economically stronger than Anambra so it's a fallacy. If Igbos began using debt to prove wealth they would be the richest, and Lagos the poorest. 10 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by MajeMedia: 7:11pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
This is the result of the two philosophies and why igbo land looks the way it does. In igbo land, public facilities are inferior, but people's houses and businesses are superior www.nairaland.com/attachments/1287167_aba2_jpg006a70b121903b92a1390b36c1f86b51 in yoruba land, public facilities are superior, but people's houses and businesses are inferior. So while Yoruba land can boast for great schools, many live in substandard slums and inferior huts www.nairaland.com/attachments/1287121_ibadan_jpg5c2714d71a450f0536627abbdcc8f2d5 In igbo land, people's homes and businesses look great, but the roads are a mess and the presence of government is hard to feel. With yoruba land people's homes and businesses leave a lot to desire, but the presence of 'heroic' government is felt (Fashola, Aregbesola, Mimiko). the igbos value land and property a lot. The culture believe is if you create it, it's yours. You're the lord of it and nobody can tell you anything about it let alone tax you. The Yoruba have a strong sense of nationhood and the civic duty that comes with it (paying your taxes, while government is pressured to perform for the people) It's two methods of self organization that I respect. Though as an igbo, I prefer my people's method because it encourages the individual to be enterprising and government to keep it's mismanaging hands out of people's affairs. and while igbo land can boast of great 7 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by agbameta: 7:16pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Sloan: I thought so... Unfortunately for the jester in Anambra, they in the US can afford to spew such political nonsense about taxes and less government because theirs is a developed society with more than enough infrastructures to support the population. Like I said before, this man is lowering expectations because deep down in his heart, he's incapable of delivering anything to his people hence dropping the subliminals and telling them not to expect much from him.. I mean, how do you do anything without taxes and aggressive government especially in a state with pitiful N450 million yearly IGR? |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Sloan: 7:24pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: This is the result of the two philosophies and why igbo land looks the way it does. You are obviously deliberately spinning the debate and topic in your self-chosen direction to satisfy your ego and come up with justification for the abysmal economies of Ibo SE states. That said, those buildings in Yoruba land were built in the 1700 - 1800s, MOSTLY! The Yorubas lived in urbanized settlements by the 1800s, go and check history! You therefore cannot compare those houses to the ones built by Ibos in the 1970 - 2000s! You already know that Yorubas outnumber Ibos in Nigeria alone by not less than 5 - 10 M but what you fail to mention is our cities are far bigger than Ibo cities! If you go to Ogunpa to go and take sample pictures to post on NL but you ignore that the first churches in those areas were built in the 1800s! You ignore Bodija, Oluyole, Basorun, Agbowo, Oju-Irin, Iwo Road, Idi-Ape, Jericho, Dugbe, Ashi, etc to post pictures from Ogunpa and Agbeni does not mean those places don't exist but you actually seek to misinform your fellow Ibos who prefer to hear and see the type of misinformation you posted! 6 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Smuthx(m): 7:26pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: Ndigbo have had a long and turbulent history with taxes, and they're seen as culturally unjust due to the republican nature of our culture. Thus governments that plan on staying implement low taxes. If Igbos were pro-tax, Nigeria may still be a colony (Aba Woman's riots, attacks and rejection of warrant chiefs etc)ude, thumps up to you. This is how political/ economic issues should be discussed not on emotions, bias and distructive criticism |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 7:30pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Breeze don blow... fowl yansh don opeh oohhhh Now it is more obvious why most people from South East always want to claim South South! With this data, the South East is time bomb waiting to explode, because their so called industrialization is fluke and they are only deceiving themselves. See my Edo State generating nearly N19bn, ranking far above all of the South Eastern states in IGR. We only need purposeful leadership for the next 15 years and our IGR will increase by 10 folds. Let the chest beaters continue to beat their chest in deceit. Now wonder they can afford to construct massive schools, hospitals, water projects, like you see happening now in Edo, Lagos, Ogun, Jigawa, Rivers and Kano. Time will always reveal the truth. 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ChinoElects: 7:32pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
donphilopus: [size=30pt]IGR Revenue Report, Lagos No 1 In Nigeria[/size] The question is, is lagos yorobarland? |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 7:38pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
ChinoElects:Surely it must be yourland then I am sure you are now so ashamed that even your Obi could not grow Anambra to be self sufficient, which makes it a parasitic state, feeding fat on other hard working states 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ChinoElects: 7:43pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
I still wonder why the said paper based IGR has not helped the yorobarland. Yorobass are mediocres, they glory on meaningless things that does not affect their lives The poverty in yorobars can only be compared to what is happening in Somalia and yet some fools will come here to spew trash. How does all these chest beating on NL has been able to help the average poor yorobar man? Now take a look at where yorobars are living in the 21st century and compare to where Igbos are living in the same 21st. It will give one an economic indicator on where there is good economic living and where there poverty is stinking to the skies. And to think that this is capital of yorobars leaves more sore taste in the mouth. Yorobass should hold their leaders responsible for earth breaking poverty in their region. They cannot even afford block and cement rather they are using red mud to build their homes in the 21st century in the state capital. 4 Likes
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Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Sloan: 7:43pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Breeze don blow... fowl yansh don opeh oohhhh Yes, Omo you're spot on! That is exactly why the need to continually lay claim to the SS (because of their oil wealth) or what exactly will the SS gain from the SE that they cannot do themselves, I mean in the REAL sense! Yes, they call them "lazy" today but the "industrious" people are the ones who are lagging behind the so called "lazy" ones! The Ibos have their eyes on the oil wealth of the SS and they will surely do nothing than transfer that oil wealth to build their lands and when push comes to shove, tell off the SS! The Ibos had a single objective of unitary government back since the days of Zik and the so called "nationalistic" Zik was only true for as long as an Ibo was the one in unitary top authority! Otherwise, how do you explain away the fact that no other part of Nigeria accepted unitarianism but Ironsi assumed power unconstitutionally (and he went ahead to promulgate his useless decree 34) when he knew he was in power and surrounded by mostly Ibos at the very top. If SS were ever conned into any arrangement with the SE, they will overwhelm you eventually, claim that they developed your states (not your oil wealth or the labour of the natives which dates back to since God know when), in fact if you want to know what Saturday will be like look at Friday. If the SS wants to know what a future Ibo country will be like, look at what it is now! The SE is clearly lagging behind but here they are already changing the goal posts saying it is smaller government, less taxes! Even if all Ibos do is to gain 40% of the economic opportunities of the SS, the SS would have already lost several millions of jobs and billion of dollars to an ungrateful SE. The jury is out anyway and it is left for everyone to make their best decisions! 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by MajeMedia: 7:46pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Sloan: And igbo cities have been around for just as long. Archeological evidence says the igbos and niger deltans were in nigeria before any other group (source upon request). Furthermore, the city I posted above, Aba, was bombed to the ground and it's state, Abia, recieves extremely low allocations there are no excuses, the two philosophies produce two different realities. Lets be objective, please. 2 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ChinoElects: 7:47pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
[s] Omo_Tier1: Breeze don blow... fowl yansh don opeh oohhhh[/s] This is why you are called a clown.. Show us pictures of the world this and that, until you show us this is picture an average Easterner will continue to have about the yorobarland as a dungeon for savages.
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Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by MajeMedia: 7:47pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
This is the two different cultural philosophies in practice for anyone doubting my theory that igbos believe in less tax and less government to produce more private participation. Example of Igbo Republicanism in Nigeria [size=16pt]Cost to Register a Business Per State[/size]
http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploreeconomies/nigeria |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 7:51pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Sloan:The truth is, SE is living in self delusion and if they think they can feast on the wealth in SS, then they must be living in fool's paradise. With all the noise they make, you would think when the wealth of Nigeria is analyzed, their region constitute about 70% of it, whereas the reverse is the case. It is now ever clear why whenever there is issue with Federal allocation, none of the SE states are able to pay salaries of the state employees! With the year on year massive investment in roads, schools, hospital, water works Edo state is witness, should this continue for another 10 years, no doubt the state will witness huge surge in economic activities. I have always wondered why most of the mega industrial projects embarked upon by private investors recently are hardly in the so called 'INDUSTRIAL' states of the country |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Sloan: 7:53pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: This is the two different cultural philosophies in practice for anyone doubting my theory that igbos believe in less tax and less government to produce more private participation. So business registration fees is now the reason why the IGR of SE states are mostly the lowest in Nigeria? Spin it again until you spin out of control! LWKMD! The SW continues to attract huge investments and businesses based on requirements that are well-researched and standardized and used all over the world! You want to be like New York City but you don't want to make the kind of investments NY makes or demands from its people? It's funny, assuming if your post is true, it shows that even for almost free (aside hidden red-tape in the SE), investors would still rather pay a mere 50K in the SW to run a profitable business in an organized society with some of the lowest crime rates in the country! That alone is an indictment on the SE and their myopic ways of life! At least you now accept your IGR is low and you have to find a reason to justify it! LWKMD! 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by bloggernaija: 7:53pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: This is the result of the two philosophies and why igbo land looks the way it does. Another empty chest beating.. THE FACT IS THAT THE IGBOS ,LIKE THE HAUSA /FULANIS ARE FREE LOADING ON THE NIGERIAN STATE. THEY HAVE ALSO THE BIGGEST BENEFICIARY OF THE DYSFUNCTION IN THE COUNTRY WITH THE IMPORT EVERYTHING REPUBLINAISM. You say that public institutions are of inferior quality in the southeast, Yet in the same write up, You claim that poverty is non existent. The irony of that is definitely not apparent to you. Is it not obvious that the poverty has been exported elsewhere? Is it not apparent that people automatically migrate to places with better opportunity? Is it not a known fact that what creates the environment for opportunity and growth are investments in all sectors of the society? You gave your own interpretation of a picture. I will give you mine . Virtually every family in yorubaland has a family home that looks like that. Yes, That is our history. That is our heritage. Many of those homes are over 80yrs old. They were state of the art back then. That is when most of the houses in the SE were made of leaves. A lesson to show you that a house is not wealth. It will depreciate. The land is the wealth. And it is yorubaland. The value of the land in that location will build a mansion anywhere in the country apart from a few. However, hardly any family is willing to sell their heritage. The other funny thing is that Ibadan actually has probably the most balanced economy in nigeria. A mix of education,manufacturing,agro and agro allied industry, mining,services ,transportion and research. Most of the houses rich family members . In order not to make our neighbours homes poor, We keep them understated. Not to mention that it serves as homes for the poorer folks in the society and immigrants escaping poverty . And yes, many of your folks live there. A BIG DIFFERENCE IN MINDSET AND VALUES YOU MUST ADMIT. In your trying to exonerate your region and create a equivalence, You tried to compare your ideology or lack of to that of a people,who built empires and birthed whole civilisations. The fact is the Igbo are deluding themselves if they think they bring anything to the table in the SW. They are not known as employers of labour in the SW They are not even a major source of revenues. They are scrambling for the limited opportunities with locals and stretching state resources. The worst of it is trying yo import that tea-party ideology in to the SW(the right to vote in local election will be taken away soon.they can go back to the SE to vote in APGA ) Ibadan unfortunately has a tiny bit of that republicanism. Thanks but no thank, THE ODUA NATION WILL KEEP HOLD OUR VALUES . our COMMUNITY with CHARITY and to CONSERVE for future generations. UNASHAMEDLY AN ODUA STATES NATIONALIST 3 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by asha80(m): 7:54pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
majemedia i doff my hat to you....you have simply explain the different socio cultural economic systems btw the igbo and yoruba. 2 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by agbameta: 7:54pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: Ndigbo have had a long and turbulent history with taxes, and they're seen as culturally unjust due to the republican nature of our culture. Thus governments that plan on staying implement low taxes. If Igbos were pro-tax, Nigeria may still be a colony (Aba Woman's riots, attacks and rejection of warrant chiefs etc) ....but reality on the ground today = Your entrepreneurial people prefer to exist and perform their entrepreneurial duties in societies where they pay taxes and not your own states where lousy tax collection and evasion is allowed. All the irrelevant labels, like you are jews, you are japanese, you are publicans and all the other nonsense means nothing in terms of the actual realities on the ground. 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 7:55pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
ChinoElects: [s][/s]There is nothing you are going to tell about any of the state in your zone that would change the reality. I have spent time in Abia,(Umuahia) Imo, (Owerri, Nekeda axis), Anambra ( Oli, Akaw, Okigwe, etc) and I know you lots like the back of my palm. You are all lousy noise makers, chest beaters, show boasters and lacking in substance. Always claiming the success of others as yours, yet your own place is like the devil's kiddies bed - a place bereft of good governance, development and civility. 3 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 7:57pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: This is the two different cultural philosophies in practice for anyone doubting my theory that igbos believe in less tax and less government to produce more private participation. |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Sloan: 7:57pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Spot on! It's really gratifying to see Edo State up there...showing up the way on how a state should be viable! The IGR/Total Revenue is indeed very impressive! This is a more accurate way to measure who is "hardworking" and planning for their people and state. Carry go joor...see you folks at the TOP! |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by MajeMedia: 7:58pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
You can also look at the fact that igbo governors are the only ones that have privatized education, in some states, almost completely. Hospitals in imo state are being privatized by rochas okorocha, where as Fashola for example is building more hospitals. If it wasn't for mass privatization and fiscal management, Imo state's free education program would have been impossible. People laugh at Alaba traders but don't know they are members of town unions that build schools, hospitals, clinics, water scheme etc for their communities. This is why igbos are apathetic towards government and yorubas are passionate about it. Igbos know regardless of who's in power it's up to them, where are yorubas know that a good governor will bring good fortunes. a yoruba state will establish a busing scheme (Osun, Lagos etc) and an igbo state will hand out buses and taxis (Anambra, Abia, Enugu) People applaud the leadership of Chime Sullivan. He has completely transformed Enugu to resemble a first world city. Everything from modern transit, malls, urban development cleanliness, etc etc. In Osun, of equal size, the government builds and owns nearly everything. It's simply two different philosophies. My father is an advocate of the Nigerian government privatizing everything but courts. Even police, be believes, can be privately run. This is the way igbo people meet leadership. Igbos don't believe in government, and they don't believe in tax. 3 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ChinoElects: 7:58pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: What is this one talking. 3 SE states has oil (Anambra, Abia and Imo). Infact Anambra has the largest gas reserve in Nigeria and beyond. Ask google.. Igbos are not oil dependent, we are Igbos so we explore other areas of the economy while our oil is intact. In the case of Anambra an indigenous company has taken charge of it, making sure that Anambra people and Igbos in general are employed to our benefit while the capital remains with us too. I want you to show us what edo state has achieved under oshomole for 6years now even with all the loans running into over 200billion he has borrowed with nothing on the ground to show for it. 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ChinoElects: 8:02pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Show us the pictures of the world class rubbish or you shut up forever.. You are quite incoherent you freak, show us pictures.. |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 8:02pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Sloan:I was so surprised any sane human would proffer such as an excuse for the abysmal failure of the states in SE. IGR is a very good indicator of the economic viability of states, and what we do know is most states in the SE are not economically viable going by their very low turn over. How on earth can they engage is mega development when their IGR can barely pay salaries every month? No wonder they are always quick to be second citizens to any government in power! 1 Like |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by donphilopus: 8:03pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
ChinoElects:Probably Igboland. |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 8:06pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
ChinoElects: Hehe... Anambra has the largest gas reserves in Nigeria . You better stick to the spare parts business you are being taught Keep deceiving yourself! IGRs has nothing to do with oil, so your argument is baseless and I won't bother addressing them. Hehe... even the blind can see the improvements in Edo State. Compare the increase in Edo State's IGR since 2010 and do the same with Anambra and tell me which state is looking backward and bankrupt at the moment Edo ODION! 2 Likes |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ChinoElects: 8:15pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
Omo_Tier1: Google is your friend. Edo state with the so called huge IGR is still in shambles, archaic and mess. How has it translated to the common man. Instead your ugly governor is busy telling widows to go and die. What a state to be born into.. |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by ichidodo: 8:17pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
@ majmedia Woow, i am simply gobmacked by your articulate detail concerning the philosophies of both parties which has gone a long way to explain their discrepancies as well as stealing the thunder from the e-yeriba APC maggots, you just robbed them off their happy hour now they will have to find something else to massturbate with. |
Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by OmoTier1(m): 8:30pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
ChinoElects: It is a FACT that Edo state is more prosperous and is developing faster than your Anambra. Show me one place in Anambra that looks like this: 1 Like
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Re: The IGR Debate - Reloaded! by Ayekotoo(m): 8:30pm On Dec 12, 2013 |
MajeMedia: Ndigbo have had a long and turbulent history with taxes, and they're seen as culturally unjust due to the republican nature of our culture. Thus governments that plan on staying implement low taxes. If Igbos were pro-tax, Nigeria may still be a colony (Aba Woman's riots, attacks and rejection of warrant chiefs etc)in as much as I like your write-up and analysis but its highly biased. yorubas are great entrepreneurs. infact, they are the largest entrepreneurs in Nigeria. Yorubas are the largest welders, barbers, carpenters, butchers, hairdressers, artists, bricklayers, plumbers, traders, mechanics, vulcanizers et all in the country, these can be seen from their associations' executives in nigeria. These are just semi and unskilled professions. in other hand, igbos exp their men are the largest importers in nigeria. They just love importing anything whether good or bad due to the numbers of their ignorance for economy. 1 Like |
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