[img]http://gift2shias.files./2013/11/norizad.jpg?w=300&h=170[/img]
The situation for reasonable Shiite insides Iran who are tired of the with heresies and superstitions infested sect of Twelver Shiism (which has been condemned throughout centuries by Muslim scholars) is not easy. Criticising the ‘Ayatollahs’ and certain Shia beliefs and practices alone will get one in huge trouble, let alone declaring openly ones conversion to true Islam (Sunnism) or denouncing the core of Shiism.

A Shia intellectual and scholar, Dr. Seyyed Ali Asghar Gharavi caused a stir when he indicated that the Sunni belief in regards to Ali Ibn Abi Talib (the fourth righteouss Caliph to the Sunnis and first ‘infallible’ direct successor of the Prophet by the Shiites) is the correct one i.e. that leaders are NOT chosen by God, neither the Shia ‘infallibles’ nor any other ruler (except the Prophets). Dr. Seyyed Ali Gharavi studied in Iran and Lebanon and holds doctorate in Islamic philosophy. He is from a major religious Shiite family, his father is the late Ayatollah Seyyed Jawad Gharavi who was also known for his reformists thoughts and opposition to many Shiite beliefs, which he (just like his son) considered heretical and superstitious.

Ali Gharavi’s father was in fact a friend of Ayatollah Al-Borqei who mentioned him (Ayatollah Borqei) in his autobiography. Ayatollah Jawad Gharavi back in his times was already accused of ‘Wahhabism’ (merely for speaking against some Shia practices and beilefs he believed to be heresies!), and today it seems to the turn of his son, who has been imprisoned for writing a small academical article on the topic of Imamate.

. . .

Judiciary chief Ayatollah (of course an Ayatollah …) Sadegh Larijani has warned his department will “act with determination against those who falsify the history and try to undermine the fundamentals of the regime.” A single article has shaken the thrones of the Shia clergy and their whole belief system and they know very well that their whole existence is based on the heretical Shiite belief called ‘Imamate’, because with no Imamite, there is no justification for the innovated velayat-e faqih system.

Below are parts article wonderful article that seemed to have provoke the safavid regime,

[b]This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. [Maida:3]

- The verses before and after shows that Allah (swt) gives the Prophet (saw) the responsibility to convey the message, nothing should stop him from doing his job and He shouldn’t worry about the opposition from the disbelievers. From the way and style of the verse it becomes clear that the “completion of favor” is the divine revelation (Quran) and Islam. Meaning, now that revelation has been conveyed to the people without any defects, the favor has been completed.

- If the verse “Convey that which we have revealed upon you” [Madia: 67] was about introducing Ali (as) for caliphate, Allah would have mentioned it clearly right here in the verse. Allah is wise.

- Ali (as) himself in Nahj al-Balagha emphasize that a political government comes through Bayah and vote. For example Amir al-Muminin says to Muawiah in letter 6 of Nahj al-Balagha:
Verily, the people who payed allegiance to Abu Bakr, Omar and Othman, have payed allegiance to me based on the same principles as the allegiance to them. So anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegiance, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. And verily Shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar. So if they decide upon a man and declare him their Imam, then it is with the pleasure of Allah.
The words of Ali clearly shows that caliphate is not something divine, rather the political successors of the Prophet (saw) must be appointed through people.

- Ali (as) never talks about his divine appointment and his appointment by the Prophet (saw). Even when he wants to defend his right for caliphate, he emphasizes on his merits and his suitabilities and informs the people about these points so that they don’t make mistake in appointing their leader. In entire sermons of Nahjul Balagha “awareness and selection (of leader)” is so clear that it leaves no doubt what opinion of Ali (as) was about a government.

- The behavior of Ali (as) towards the three caliphs especially Abu bakr and Omar, as mentioned in many history books, clearly shows that he didn’t consider them to be people who would disobey the command of the Prophet (saw) and usurp the government. The cooperation of Ali (as) with Khulafa, which he himself have mentioned many times is so compassionate that leaves no room for doubt.

For example in the book al-Gharat al-Thaqafi Shi’i Amir al-muminin Ali (as) says: “When the Prophet (saw) completed his mission, Allah took him from this world, peace and blessing of Allah be upon him, then the Muslims appointed two worthy men (Abu Bakr and Omar) as his successors and those two leaders acted upon the book and the Sunnah and did not deviate from the Sunnah and ways of the Prophet (saw). Then Allah took their souls. May Allah have mercy on them.”

- If Amir al-Muminin was divinely appointed after the Prophet (saw), would his courage stop him to unleash his sword to implement the order and justice of Allah? Was it not expected from the gate of knowledge to explain the truth in time when needed?[/b]

http://sonsofsunnah.com/2013/11/13/iranian-shia-intellectual-questions-the-core-of-shiism-and-the-ayatollahs-go-nuts/

clearly,the above account from the aforementioned source (a website of hate) is designed for propaganda and hatred against the Shia Muslims and its lack truth and honesty.firstly,the author of the article stated:

“He [Ali] is not just the political ruler for a few days of passing power in this world. Ali, more than being the commander of the faithful, is the imam and the role model for humanity.”

the title of the article is: “Imam Ali, a Political Leader or a Religious Model?”

what was the aim of the article?

the author is a well-known member of the Freedom Movement of Iran [Nehzat-e Azadi-e Iran],” the opposition party that has been banned from political activities for more than two decades. During the past three decades, especially after the unrest following the 2009 presidential elections, a number of party members, including its leader and other prominent figures, were arrested.

Why was he arrested? for religious or political stance?

the arrest of the author is political because his article was aimed at undermining the regime of the Islamic republic,and not because of his beliefs.why would a regime that keep pushing for Shia-Sunni unity jail an author for his beliefs that other muslims (non-Shia) adhere to? Iran is a country too with a minority Sunni population.if it was in saudi arabia,yes i can believe that an author can land in jail for his beliefs.both saudi arabia and qatar (which adhere to the Sunni Wahhabi school of thought) have jailed authors for "insulting" the companions,and even "insulting" the monarchy when their citizens ask for basic islamic and human rights.

“The establishment in Iran is stressing the point that the velayat-e faqih [guardianship of the jurist] is in fact the continuation of the rulership [velayat] of Imam Ali. Knowing this fact, Gharavi still emphasized the point that Imam Ali was more of a spiritual leader than a political one. In other words, he has questioned the position of Ayatollah [Ali] Khamenei as the political leader.” In one part of the article Gharavi wrote, “Imam Ali repeatedly mentions in Nahj al-BalaghaI [a book of quotations and sermons attributed to him] that political rule can only be achieved by people voting and paying allegiance.”

as you can see,the author has a political line of thinking and belonging to an outlawed party that are in total opposition to the regime's.

as far as voting and paying allegiance goes,it does not contradict the concept of divine appointment.even the Prophet Muhammad (sa) was given allegiance and he also encouraged shura.the Quran says:

Holy Quran 42:38
"Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance";

does the fact that the Prophet (sa) seeks consultation or takes allegiance make him less of one who is bestowed with divine knowledge and is chosen by Allah (swt)?

the Isma ( "infallibility" ) of the Ahlul-Bayt (as)

anyone who tries to assign sin to the Ahlul-Bayt (as) as clearly gone against the words of Allah (swt) in the Verse of Purification of the Holy Quran:

"Allah surely wills to keep sin away from you, O People of the House! And to purify you an absolute purification". (33:33)

in Hadith al-Thaqalain,the "Two Weighty Things" as declared by the Holy Prophet (sa) are the the Quran and the Ahlul-Bayt (as).these two will never separate and whoever holds on to both shall never go astray.if the adherence to the Ahlul-Bayt (as) is tied to adherence to the Quran,then sound logic and reason dictate that the chosen members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) cannot lead astray and they are as pure and full guidance as the Quran itself! in fact one of the titles of Imam Ali (as) himself is "al-Quran al-Nathiq" (the talking Quran).


The Relationship Between Imam Ali (as) and the 3 Sunni caliphs
-the most malignant sunni sources to the Shia (like "Sahih Bukhari" ) have recorded that for a period of at least 6 months Imam Ali (as) withheld his allegiance from Abu Bakr and he did not take part in any public function.why? because he deemed himself more worthy of and rightful to the caliphate.

-the exchanges between Umar and Ibn Abass (RA) reveals Umar's admission the caliphate was usurped!

-Imam Ali's (as) demanded that the Sahaba in the plain of Rahba confess that he was the one chosen by the Prophet (sa) as successor in Ghadir Khumm.

-the purported excerpts of the article presented by the biased website (as that of the arrested author) in the above (in the OP) is not verified,and can either be utterly false and fabricated or mistranslated from persian as one of Imam Ali's (as) letter to Muawiya is mistranslated deliberately to send the wrong impression.also it contains mistranslation (obviously deliberately).Imam Ali (as) was addressing Muawiya,who challenged Imam Ali's (as) rule as caliph for both Sunnis and Shia (after Usthman was killed) in the Battle of Siffeen,using rhetoric thus:

"Verily those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman have sworn allegiance to me on the same basis on which they swore allegiance to them. On this basis, he who was present has no choice (to reconsider), and he who was absent has no right to reject. And consultation was confined to Emigrant and Helpers. If they agree on an individual and name him leader, it was supposed that it is Allah’s satisfaction. If any one goes against such decision due to innovation, they (used to) return him from what he kept away, and if he refuses (to abide the decision) they (used to) fight him for following a course other than of the believers, and Allah will put him back from where he had run away."

-from the same Nahjul-Balagha,we read clear from Sermon #3 of Imam Ali (as) his position on Abu Bakr and Umar in regards to the caliphate and its usurpation:

Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly up to me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.
Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high. One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husayn were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like the herd of sheep and goats. When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:

That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not to exult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and the end is (best) for the pious ones.(Qur'an, 28:83)

Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings, if people had not come to me and supporters had not exhausted the argument and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one. Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat.

By Allah I shall not be like the badger, which feigns sleep on continuous (sound of) stone-throwing till he who is in search of it finds it or he who is on the look out for it overpowers it. Rather, I shall ever strike the deviators from truth with the help of those who advance towards it, and the sinners and doubters with the help of those who listen to me and obey, till my day (of death) comes. By Allah I have been continually deprived of my right from the day the Prophet died till today.
Reference:
• Sermon #6 in Nahjul Balagha

One of Amir al-mu'minin's companions (from Banu Asad) asked him: "How was it that your tribe (Quraysh) deprived you of this position (Caliphate) although you deserved it most." Then in reply he said:
O' brother of Banu Asad! Your girth is loose and you have put it on the wrong way. Nevertheless you enjoy in-law kinship and also the right to ask, and since you have asked, listen. As regards the oppression against us in this matter although we were the highest as regards descent and the strongest in relationship with the Messenger of Allah. It was a selfish act over which the hearts of people became greedy, although some people did not care for it. The Arbiter is Allah and to Him is the return on the Day of Judgement.
Come and look at the son of Abu Sufyan (Mu`awiyah). Time has made me laugh after weeping. No wonder, by Allah; what is this affair which surpasses all wonder and which has increased wrongfulness. These people have tried to put out the flame of Allah's light from His lamp and to close His fountain from its source. They mixed epidemic-producing water between me and themselves. If the trying hardships were removed from among us, I would take them on the course of truthfulness otherwise:

"... So let not thy self go (in vain) in grief for them; verily Allah knoweth all that they do." (Qur'an, 35:8 )
Reference:
• Sermon #162 in Nahjul Balagha

Where are those who falsely and unjustly claimed that they are deeply versed in knowledge, as against us, although Allah raised us in position and kept them down, bestowed upon us knowledge but deprived them, and entered us (in the fortress of knowledge) but kept them out. With us guidance is to be sought and blindness (of misguidance) is to be changed into brightness. Surely Imams (divine leaders) will be from the Quraysh. They have been planted in this line through Hashim. It would not suit others nor would others be suitable as heads of affairs.
They have adopted this world and abandoned the next world; left clean water and drunk stinking water. I can almost see their wicked one who committed unlawful acts, associated himself with them, befriended them and accorded with them till his hair grew grey and his nature acquired their tinge. He proceeded onward emitting foam like a torrential stream not caring whom he drowned, or, like fire in straw, without realising what he burnt.

Where are the minds which seek light from the lamps of guidance, and the eyes which look at minarets of piety? Where are the hearts dedicated to Allah, and devoted to the obedience of Allah? They are all crowding towards worldly vanities and quarrelling over unlawful issues. The ensigns of Paradise and Hell have been raised for them but they have turned their faces away from Paradise and proceeded to Hell by dint of their performances. Allah called them but they showed dislike and ran away. When Satan called them they responded and proceeded (towards him).

Reference:
• Sermon #144 in Nahjul Balagha

...None in the Islamic community can be taken at par with the Progeny of the Prophet (Alu Muhammad). One who was under their obligation cannot be matched with them. They are the foundation of religion and pillar of Belief. The forward runner has to turn back to them while the follower has to overtake them. They possess the chief characteristics for vicegerency. In their favour exists the will and succession (of the Prophet). This is the time when right has returned to its owner and diverted to its centre of return.

Reference:
• Conclusion of Sermon #2 in Nahjul Balagha

^The arguments in the opening post are sound. Moreover, how does your argument improve your personal standing in relation to your individual reckoning and deeds? The people and issues you are writing epistles on and arguing bitterly about are long gone. Are you afraid that Allah will not give justice to everyone? To the point that you and your ilk have to bring the same issue into virtually everything from brushing your teeth to smashing rocks for making gravel.

#Bothersome

Is this so-called 'modern society' really intellectual?
Its really a laughing stock seeing certain wahabi website addressing politically with lots of propaganda the issues of Islamic beliefs, ideas and spirituality.

@LagosShia, furthermore on the incident of Rahba; Dhahabi and Imam Ahmad Ibn Hambali even recorded that Imam Ali (a.s) cursed Anas Ibn Malik for not testifying to the event of Ghadir khum. Anas was afflicted with leprosy as a result.

Good work brother.

maclatunji: ^The arguments in the opening post are sound. Moreover, how does your argument improve your personal standing in relation to your individual reckoning and deeds? The people and issues you are writing epistles on and arguing bitterly about are long gone. Are you afraid that Allah will not give justice to everyone? To the point that you and your ilk have to bring the same issue into virtually everything from brushing your teeth to smashing rocks for making gravel.

#Bothersome

we hope they won't eventually behead the man for refuting shiism like his father he is being persecuted for asking questions, Let's read what Ali r.a said

For example in the book al-Gharat al-Thaqafi Shi’i Amir al-muminin Ali (as) says: “When the Prophet (saw) completed his mission, Allah took him from this world, peace and blessing of Allah be upon him, then the Muslims appointed two worthy men (Abu Bakr and Omar) as his successors and those two leaders acted upon the book and the Sunnah and did not deviate from the Sunnah and ways of the Prophet (saw). Then Allah took their souls. May Allah have mercy on them.”

#

Now the nasibis would seek for words that Ali r.a said things that are contrary to the above position, then we knowing the sort of person Ali was would rather stand with the above. Now Ali r.a goes further and nullify the stand point of the shias,

للغائب أن يرد ، وإنما الشورى للمهاجرين والأنصار ، فإن اجتمعوا على رجل وسموه إماماً كان ذلك لله رضى فإن خرج منهم خارج بطعن أو بدعة ردوه إلى ماخرج منه فإن أبى قاتلوه على اتباعه غير سبيل

المؤمنين ، وولاه الله ما تولى

Translation: Verily, the people who payed allegience to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, have payed allegience to me based on the same principles as the allegience to them. So anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegience, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. And verily shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar. So if they decide upon a man and declare him their imam, then it is with the pleasure of Allah. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people. If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers. And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him. Nahjul Balagha, letter 6

Truly the article which was mainly academic, shook the foundations of the purveyors of nasibism!

maclatunji: ^The arguments in the opening post are sound. Moreover, how does your argument improve your personal standing in relation to your individual reckoning and deeds? The people and issues you are writing epistles on and arguing bitterly about are long gone. Are you afraid that Allah will not give justice to everyone? To the point that you and your ilk have to bring the same issue into virtually everything from brushing your teeth to smashing rocks for making gravel.

#Bothersome

of course brother,the (political) arguments must be "sound" to you,otherwise your name wont be Maclatunji.

as for the usual question about how those of the past affect our standing today,i will quote excerpts from previous replies which should be sufficient:

I'd answer your words,by just reminding you in case you've forgotten,that just few posts ago,you brought us a forged hadith which issues a blank cheque to the title of "companions",and asks us to follow the Prophet (sa) and the "companions",without specifying which of the companions;was it one of the companions who converted to Christianity?!

if we don't look back into the past to know who we are following,then how can we just blindly follow them? It doesn't make sense.

Go to the book of Allah (swt),and you will find the stories of Musa (as) and the Pharoah,Nimrod,Zhul-Qarnain,Dawud (as) and Jalut,and many.why is Allah (swt) taking us to all these past stories and condemning Fir'awn and praising the prophets (as),calling them His "righteous servants" and "pious" ?just story telling? I don't think so.ponder about it,and see why we must know our past,and who the trustworthy and praiseworthy were and who the blameworthy and villains we must shun were,as per the standard of the Quran and the Ahlul-Bayt (as).only going back to the Thaqalain,which Prophet Muhammad (sa) left for us can guide this ummah and unite us.any other is waste of time and straying from Islam into either misguidance or disbelief.

We turn to old issues particularly the caliphate because those issues have contributed to the reality that the majority of Muslims today are ignorant and on false beliefs,and many are ready to blow themselves up to kill those who disagree with them.is this the Islam of Muhammad (sa) and his Ahlul-Bayt (as)? I doubt.in fact if you go to Bukhari and Muslim,you find fabricated Sunni hadiths demonizing the Prophet (sa) and portraying him as a tyrant who oppressed people,just in order to justify the oppression the caliphs perpetrated and the torture men like al-hajjaj ibn yusuf al-thaqafi used to punish muslims with.you can take the hadith which accuse the Prophet (sa) of nailing the eyes of people (this is in sahih muslim) as example.false hadith that the Prophet (sa) committed mass murder against the jews (in sahih bukhari) also.this is the sunnah of jahiliyyah which quraysh and the arabians practiced.once Muhammad (sa),the mercy unto mankind passed away,they wanted to revive this sunnah of criminality and terror,which the Prophet (sa) fought against in self-defense.his family members (the Ahlul-Bayt) were first to suffer once the Prophet (sa) died.as an example,you have the tragedy of Karbala,where the grandson of the Prophet (sa)-Imam Hussain (as)- was beheaded,his women (including the grand-daughters of the Prophet) were taken as captives to the sunni caliph yazeed.how does that affect us today? We both follow two different paths.you follow the path of those sahaba who usurped power and imposed themselves on the ummah,and caused bloodshed,and we follow the legacy of the prophet of mercy and his Ahlul-Bayt (as).this is a fundamental difference that many don't see,but have made Islam synonymous with terrorism since the majority of muslims are on the former (path).our paths and the legacies we follow are not the same.

Take for instance what was done to Muhammad (ra) son of abu bakr.he ironically was a Shia of Imam Ali (as).on the authority of Muawiya,the sunni caliph and a successor of abu bakr,Muhammad (ra) was killed by Amr Ibn Aas and his corpse was loaded on a donkey and both were burnt! Where is the grave of Muhammad ibn Abu bakr? Do you know?well that is not the issue.the issue and catastrophe for this ummah is when the names of muawiya or amr ibn aas are mentioned,sunnis exclaim: "may Allah be pleased with him".in that way,its not bad too if you say "may Allah be pleased with fir'awn".it sounds funny,no doubt,but we are in deep trouble.the ummah of Muhammad (sa) fails to see that the legacy of jahiliyyah and bloodshed of pre-islamic times crept back with the death of the Prophet (sa),and even the Ahlul-Bayt (as) were victims.when the head of Imam Hussain (as) was taken to damascus,as a sign of triumph to the court of yazeed (whom by the way salafists do not condemn but even praise),yazeed made it clear that the grandson of Muhammad (sa) was beheaded as part of vengeance for his pagan ancestors whom the Prophet (sa) had killed in the battle of badr.you expect me to unite with someone who hold a favorable view of yazeed?

And furthermore,in both sunni and shia hadiths,the Prophet (sa) said: "he who dies without knowing the imam of his time,has died the death of jahiliyyah".who is the imam of the time for sunnis? If you as a sunni die today,who is the "imam of your time"? You don't know wallah!then in both Shia and Sunni hadiths,the Prophet (sa) said : "the successors after me are twelve".obviously,they can't be 13! To the Shia the awaited 12th Imam (aj) is our imam of the time.do sunnis know their 12 successors? Wallah you deny the most authentic of your hadith.the hadith of 12 imams is found in Sahih Muslim.again you fabricate or twist interpretations to suit your beliefs.the sunni caliphs were more than 30!

maclatunji: ^The arguments in the opening post are sound.

To you Islamic studies is a secondary issue otherwise you should be able to differentiate between a politically motivated write up and a core-Islamic argument.

maclatunji: The people and issues you are writing epistles on and arguing bitterly about are long gone.

Haven't you heard that a scholar never dies? Meaning even if he dies, his teachings, ideas and legacy remain and forever influence many generations to come.
Why do you think there are differences in terms of aqeeda to the point of declaration of kafir on certain muslim and killing in the process? The result was an age long division and early distortion of the true message of Islam.

maclatunji: Are you afraid that Allah will not give justice to everyone?

Surely Allah will give justice to everyone because He's a Just God (al-adl). But are you just to yourself with the God-given intellect bestowed on you? The moment you decided to close your eyes on certain Islamic issues that affect the core principle of Islam then, you are among those who wrong themselves (nafs).
Somebody recently asked me a question: Is sunni style of wudu valid for salat since wudu is the key to open salat?
You will be doing justice to yourself to research within your capability because there's No excuse in the sight of God. See how 'little' wudu-issue is, not to mention the Caliphacy-issue?

maclatunji: To the point that you and your ilk have to bring the same issue into virtually everything from brushing your teeth to smashing rocks for making gravel.

"Plunge into the depths until you reach the truth"~Imam Ali (a.s)
What's wrong in digging down the hole to uncover the truth?
If you are lazy, bored or has develop an attitude for 'shia-digging-down-the-hole'; then, its not necessary to comment unless you are obsessed with 'Shi'a-teachings'.

maclatunji:
#Bothersome

No doubt that's 3days ban if a shi'a dare post such a propaganda about Sunni.

.

vedaxcool:

we hope they won't eventually behead the man for refuting shiism like his father he is being persecuted for asking questions, Let's read what Ali r.a said

#

Now the nasibis would seek for words that Ali r.a said things that are contrary to the above position, then we knowing the sort of person Ali was would rather stand with the above. Now Ali r.a goes further and nullify the stand point of the shias,

للغائب أن يرد ، وإنما الشورى للمهاجرين والأنصار ، فإن اجتمعوا على رجل وسموه إماماً كان ذلك لله رضى فإن خرج منهم خارج بطعن أو بدعة ردوه إلى ماخرج منه فإن أبى قاتلوه على اتباعه غير سبيل

Truly the article which was mainly academic, shook the foundations of the purveyors of nasibism!

Recently when a Saudi prince converted to christianity and broke away from the dynasty, many christian were like: 'Halellujah! He has broke away from the cocoon of violence beliefs...'

It is very shameful to see a wahabi going all about with this kind of propaganda. Its like running away from the real khilafa debate.
Qur'an, hadith and Tarikh is there for us to explore.

*If right before your nose you could read the saying of the prophet saying:
"I leave amongst you two weighty thing if you adhere to it you will never go astray; book of God and my ahl al-bayt..."

What does it tell you about Ali who happened to be the head of ahl al-bayt?

*"of whosoever I am his Mawla, Ali is his Mawla..."
Umar ibn khattab was the first to interpret the "mawla" to mean "master and leader" in the above sentence.

*"do not find fault with Ali for he is your leader AFTER me..."

Its very unfortunate that almighty Mac has hide what could have uncover this issue Islamically rather than hidden under a political propaganda.

"Nasibi?" Lol. Do you use the word ignorantly or defensively? True indeed is the word of our elders: "ai tete mole, ole n moloko".

u being nasibi and willfully ignorant, I would leave u with words of Ali r.a rebuking the lies of nasibi, if u like disagree with Ali r.a but his words clearly shows that shiism is based on a false premise! Bring umar r.a into the fray to derail the thread does not work here, u have the words of Ali r.a to contend with for the rest of your life, no amount of nasibism or hatred of the righteous companions of the Holy Prophet pbuh would remove or erase these words of Ali r.a

@brother Al-Baqir

Please keep in mind the below saying of our Imam (as) when you are engaging some people in this forum.

"I have never argued with an ignorant fool and won; nor have I argued with a rational person and lost"- Imam Ali (as).

@Vedaxcool, have u ever seen a copy of Nahj al-balagha not to mention understanding its content?
Just like you see a christian quoting and arguing from the Quran.

Here's Imam Ali (a.s)'s beloved letter to your Imam mu'awiyah perhaps you will need a reliable spec to read and settle your brain as well:

LETTER 6

To Mu'awiyah (Ibn Abi sufyan)

" Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman have sworn allegiance to me on the same basis on which they swore allegiance to them. (On this basis) he who was present has no choice (to consider), and he who was absent has no right to reject; and consultation is confined to the muhajirun and the ansar. If they agree on an individual and take him to be Caliph it will deemed to mean Allah's pleasure. If any one keeps away by way of objection or innovation they will return him to the position from where he kept away. If he refuses they will fight him for following a course other than that of the believers and Allah will put him back from where he had run away. By my life, O' Mu'awiyah, if you see with your brain without any passion you will find me the most innocent of all in respect of 'Uthman's blood and you will surely know that I was in seclusion from him, unless you conceal what is quite open to you. Then you may commit an outrage (on me) as you like and that is an end to the matter."

Nahj al-Balagha vol.2 p. 262

NB: Mu'awiyah refused to recognized Imam Ali (a.s) as the khalifa of his time. Imam Ali (a.s) in his letter to Mu'awiyah argued based on the 'basis' and 'principles' set by the society in which he himself was part of. The so-called 'basis' the society used to appoint the 1st three khalipha.

LagosShia: @brother Al-Baqir

Please keep in mind the below saying of our Imam (as) when you are engaging some people in this forum.

"I have never argued with an ignorant fool and won; nor have I argued with a rational person and lost"- Imam Ali (as).

Hmmm...true word!

Al-Baqir:
@Vedaxcool, have u ever seen a copy of Nahj al-balagha not to mention understanding its content?
Just like you see a christian quoting and arguing from the Quran.

Here's Imam Ali (a.s)'s beloved letter to your Imam mu'awiyah perhaps you will need a reliable spec to read and settle your brain as well:

"Your Imam Mu'awiyah"? #Childish

maclatunji:

"Your Imam Mu'awiyah"? #Childish

Wasn't he your "Imam?" #Adult-ish!
Are you ashamed to associate yourself with him? There are 2 Imam discoursed in the holy Qur'an: Imam mutaqin (righteous Imam) and Satanic Imam. I've made a permanent resolution in life to follow Ali as my Imam; and distance myself from his enemies just like prominent sahaba (like Ibn Abbas) followed Ali and distanced themselves from Mu'awiyah and his like.

^When did it become a habit of sincere Muslims to discriminate amongst the Prophet's (SAW) companions?

maclatunji: ^When did it become a habit of sincere Muslims to discriminate amongst the Prophet's (SAW) companions?

Even the Holy Qur'an separated the grains among them from the chaff. If Qur'an devout many verses and a whole sura for the Munafiq among the sahaba; and even go to such extent that Allah says there are some among these Munafiq not known even to the prophet (Q.9:101).
The holy prophet (saws) exposed them and gave generations to come tips to recognize the 'hidden' munafiq.
A sincere Muslim should heed to Allah and His prophet's advice. Recognize the Munafiq and distance yourself from them.

Mac. The choice is yours.

Al-Baqir:


Even the Holy Qur'an separated the grains among them from the chaff. If Qur'an devout many verses and a whole sura for the Munafiq among the sahaba; and even go to such extent that Allah says there are some among these Munafiq not known even to the prophet (Q.9:101).
The holy prophet (saws) exposed them and gave generations to come tips to recognize the 'hidden' munafiq.
A sincere Muslim should heed to Allah and His prophet's advice. Recognize the Munafiq and distance yourself from them.

Mac. The choice is yours.

The prophet(pbuh)didn't know them and you Al-Baqir know them? Eww,what are the criteria?

Al-Baqir:


Even the Holy Qur'an separated the grains among them from the chaff. If Qur'an devout many verses and a whole sura for the Munafiq among the sahaba; and even go to such extent that Allah says there are some among these Munafiq not known even to the prophet (Q.9:101).
The holy prophet (saws) exposed them and gave generations to come tips to recognize the 'hidden' munafiq.
A sincere Muslim should heed to Allah and His prophet's advice. Recognize the Munafiq and distance yourself from them.

Mac. The choice is yours.

Give us the names of the hypocrites mentioned in the Qur'an.

lanrexlan: The prophet(pbuh)didn't know them and you Al-Baqir know them? Eww,what are the criteria?

The holy prophet (saws) said:

1. "Three are the signs of a hypocrite: When he speaks, he lies; when he makes a promise, he breaks it; and when he is trusted, he betrays his trust even if he observes Fasting, performs prayers and claims to be a believer.'' (Muslim)

2. "Love of Ali is a sign of believer and hatred of Ali is a sign of Munafiq" (Muslim, tirmidhi)

3. "One who hates us, the Ahl al-bayt, is a hypocrite" (Ahmad, Hakim, Suyuti)

So you can go back memory lane and assess whoever you wish to assess.
NB: You can appreciate the wisdom of the Qur'an and the prophet (saws) not mentioning names PUBLICLY to safeguard the innocent and the deen.

You need some names?
Here's Hudhayfa al-Yamani (r.a)'s account:
www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2012/02/companions-attempt-to-kill-prophet.html?m=1

I only wonder the kind of Bid'a you brought that ALL companions are righteous.

maclatunji:


Give us the names of the hypocrites mentioned in the Qur'an.

Have you forgotten Qur'an is al-Hakim (wisdom)? For several reason (of which protection of Deen, prophet and innocent is one) its not a book that mention names all the time.

You need some names?
Here's Hudhayfa al-Yamani (r.a)'s account:
www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2012/02/companions-attempt-to-kill-prophet.html?m=1

I only wonder the kind of Bid'a you brought that ALL companions are righteous.

Al-Baqir:


The holy prophet (saws) said:

1. "Three are the signs of a hypocrite: When he speaks, he lies; when he makes a promise, he breaks it; and when he is trusted, he betrays his trust even if he observes Fasting, performs prayers and claims to be a believer.'' (Muslim)

2. "Love of Ali is a sign of believer and hatred of Ali is a sign of Munafiq" (Muslim, tirmidhi)

3. "One who hates us, the Ahl al-bayt, is a hypocrite" (Ahmad, Hakim, Suyuti)

Who among those people stated in your link falls into these categories?

Al-Baqir:
So you can go back memory lane and assess whoever you wish to assess.
NB: You can appreciate the wisdom of the Qur'an and the prophet (saws) not mentioning names PUBLICLY to safeguard the innocent and the deen.

You need some names?
Here's Hudhayfa al-Yamani (r.a)'s account:
www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2012/02/companions-attempt-to-kill-prophet.html?m=1

I only wonder the kind of Bid'a you brought that ALL companions are righteous.

Funny enough,you directed me to a link of one of your Shia brothers.What I will write will be based on what's posted in that link.

When Walid Ibn Jumai was among the narrators of a saying recorded in Ibn Kathir which is a sunni source,they called him a liar and that saying of Hudhaifah a fabricated lie.

Because of this,Hudhaifah was called the owner of the secret,which nobody knows because he could specify a group of Munafiqeen and they were those people about whom the the messenger of Allah ( ﺻﻠﯽ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻭ ﻋﻠﯿﻪ ﻭ ﺁﻟﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ) informed him. Allah (swt) knows best.[Source: Tafsir ibn Kathir. Vol 4,Pg. # 181 - 182]

.
Ibn Hazim claimed this narration of Hudhaifah is not reliable because it contains Walid Ibn Jumai among his narrators,therefore nullifying it.[Source:Al-Muhalla. Vol. 11, Pg. # 224.].This means Walid Ibn Jumai is unreliable and this saying was fabricated because it's a sunni source.

But when Ibn Hazim said that this same Walid Ibn Jumai revealed the names of the hypocrites in Shia sources[which wasn't even given in that link],then your brother agreed with him and quoted some scholars[which we don't know maybe they Shia scholars with Shia sources] praising Walid Ibn Jumai whom Ibn Hazim has already called 'unreliable' when he narrated through a sunni source.He says

With such a prominent scholars praising Walid ibn Jumai they can remain not a shadow of doubt about the authenticity of these narrations.Some might claim these are mere speculations made by the followers of the Ahlulbayt (a.s) and it can not be ascertained for certain who these hypocrites are

.
Eww,it's very easy when a narration doesn't favor you it becomes fabricated.
So you decided to go with the story that favors your belief that the first three caliphs which Sunni believe in are hypocrites[Stated in your source].
You know what? Keep to your belief,we know they are hypocrites among the companions of the prophet(pbuh).Some which the prophet(pbuh)knew of and didn't know others.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah An-Nisa 4:63 -They (hypocrites) are those of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts;so turn aside from them (do not punish them) but admonish them,and speak to them an effective word (i.e. to believe in Allah,worship Him,obey Him,and be afraid of Him) to reach their innerselves.Those hypocrites the prophet(pbuh)knew of,Allah has asked him to admonish them.
So why are Shias cursing the hypocrites??

lanrexlan:

Who among those people stated in your link falls into these categories?
Funny enough,you directed me to a link of one of your Shia brothers.What I will write will be based on what's posted in that link.

When Walid Ibn Jumai was among the narrators of a saying recorded in Ibn Kathir which is a sunni source,they called him a liar and that saying of Hudhaifah a fabricated lie.
.
Ibn Hazim claimed this narration of Hudhaifah is not reliable because it contains Walid Ibn Jumai among his narrators,therefore nullifying it.[Source:Al-Muhalla. Vol. 11, Pg. # 224.].This means Walid Ibn Jumai is unreliable and this saying was fabricated because it's a sunni source.

But when Ibn Hazim said that this same Walid Ibn Jumai revealed the names of the hypocrites in Shia sources[which wasn't even given in that link],then your brother agreed with him and quoted some scholars[which we don't know maybe they Shia scholars with Shia sources] praising Walid Ibn Jumai whom Ibn Hazim has already called 'unreliable' when he narrated through a sunni source.He says

.
Eww,it's very easy when a narration doesn't favor you it becomes fabricated.
So you decided to go with the story that favors your belief that the first three caliphs which Sunni believe in are hypocrites[Stated in your source].
You know what? Keep to your belief,we know they are hypocrites among the companions of the prophet(pbuh).Some which the prophet(pbuh)knew of and didn't know others.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah An-Nisa 4:63 -They (hypocrites) are those of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts;so turn aside from them (do not punish them) but admonish them,and speak to them an effective word (i.e. to believe in Allah,worship Him,obey Him,and be afraid of Him) to reach their innerselves.Those hypocrites the prophet(pbuh)knew of,Allah has asked him to admonish them.
So why are Shias cursing the hypocrites??

Only if you can open your heart and read with sincerity of heart then you will see Walid Ibn Jumai was a prominent narrator in which SAHIH MUSLIM relied upon. And many books on Rijal were also referenced to you. All you could say is 'Names you haven't heard of'. A sincere heart journey through research and not excuses. Since when Ibn Saad, Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar et al became an alien name to you on the matter of Walid Ibn Jumai whom Ibn Hazim (a secondary name in Sunni world) declared 'unreliable'?

ALL the reference given in the link are SUNNI references with scan copies. So the onus is on you to verify weather they are real or false.

Its like talking to a christian. The best argument you can make is given ref from his book. That's what shi'a does all the time in a discussion with Sunni.

lanrexlan:
So why are Shias cursing the hypocrites??

You haven't truly digest one, you are asking for another! Its of no use brother.

Al-Baqir:


Only if you can open your heart and read with sincerity of heart then you will see Walid Ibn Jumai was a prominent narrator in which SAHIH MUSLIM relied upon. And many books on Rijal were also referenced to you. All you could say is 'Names you haven't heard of'. A sincere heart journey through research and not excuses. Since when Ibn Saad, Dhahabi, Ibn Hajar et al became an alien name to you on the matter of Walid Ibn Jumai whom Ibn Hazim (a secondary name in Sunni world) declared 'unreliable'?

ALL the reference given in the link are SUNNI references with scan copies. So the onus is on you to verify weather they are real or false.

Its like talking to a christian. The best argument you can make is given ref from his book. That's what shi'a does all the time in a discussion with Sunni.

Yes,Walid Ibn Jumai was a prominent narrator,then his narration from Hudhaifah that the prophet(pbuh) told him the names of the hypocrites and ask him not to tell anybody should also be valid.That link failed to produce a source when Walid Ibn Jumai listed the names of the hypocrites.No sayings of Sahih Muslim confirm it.

Al-Baqir:
You haven't truly digest one, you are asking for another! Its of no use brother.

Better,if you like curse them from now till the day of judgement everyone is going give account of his deeds and I am innocent of what you do.

Al-Baqir:


Have you forgotten Qur'an is al-Hakim (wisdom)? For several reason (of which protection of Deen, prophet and innocent is one) its not a book that mention names all the time.

You need some names?
Here's Hudhayfa al-Yamani (r.a)'s account:
www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2012/02/companions-attempt-to-kill-prophet.html?m=1

I only wonder the kind of Bid'a you brought that ALL companions are righteous.

You are the one that claimed the Qur'an as justification for your rather unislamic position. I have asked you to provide the names of those hypocrites named in the Qur'an so that we may dislike them with you.

maclatunji:

You are the one that claimed the Qur'an as justification for your rather unislamic position. I have asked you to provide the names of those hypocrites named in the Qur'an so that we may dislike them with you.

Did I ever claim Qur'an mention their names? My argument is simply: Qur'an exposes the munafiq among the sahaba. And here you are find it difficult to accept there were munafiq among them.
When Qur'an al-hakim says "establish salat", does it name them as "subhi, zuhr, Asr, Maghrib and Ishai"? Does it tell you 2, 4, 4,3,4 is the numbers?
I have no headache with the generality of sahaba. Qur'an has grouped them. Then Qur'an said if there's a fight btw 2 muslim party, we are ordained to follow the just against the unjust. Here I am prefering Ali and ahl al-bayt above all others. What's the wahala? I respect the courage of Zakir Naik and people like him who accommodate 'the just and the unjust' (e.g combining Imam Hussain (a.s) and Yazid(l.a)) in his heart. Allah is our witness and judge.

Its better you stay focus to the subject matter and let's stop derailing. Imam Ali (a.s)'s letter to mu'awiyah is there^ for exploration lest an ignorant capitalize on what he doesn't understand.

Al-Baqir:
@Vedaxcool, have u ever seen a copy of Nahj al-balagha not to mention understanding its content?
Just like you see a christian quoting and arguing from the Quran.

Here's Imam Ali (a.s)'s beloved letter to your Imam mu'awiyah perhaps you will need a reliable spec to read and settle your brain as well:

LETTER 6

To Mu'awiyah (Ibn Abi sufyan)

" Verily, those who swore allegiance to Abu Bakr, 'Umar and 'Uthman have sworn allegiance to me on the same basis on which they swore allegiance to them. (On this basis) he who was present has no choice (to consider), and he who was absent has no right to reject; and consultation is confined to the muhajirun and the ansar. If they agree on an individual and take him to be Caliph it will deemed to mean Allah's pleasure. If any one keeps away by way of objection or innovation they will return him to the position from where he kept away. If he refuses they will fight him for following a course other than that of the believers and Allah will put him back from where he had run away. By my life, O' Mu'awiyah, if you see with your brain without any passion you will find me the most innocent of all in respect of 'Uthman's blood and you will surely know that I was in seclusion from him, unless you conceal what is quite open to you. Then you may commit an outrage (on me) as you like and that is an end to the matter."

Nahj al-Balagha vol.2 p. 262

NB: Mu'awiyah refused to recognized Imam Ali (a.s) as the khalifa of his time. Imam Ali (a.s) in his letter to Mu'awiyah argued based on the 'basis' and 'principles' set by the society in which he himself was part of. The so-called 'basis' the society used to appoint the 1st three khalipha.

Funny isn't it? that after your brain had settled it couldn't ask itself a pertinent question, which is Ali r.a justifying his position not based on the alleged divine appointment claimed by the shias but by the pratices associated with the pious predecessors of the prophet pbuh and as claimed by the Qur'an, shura is by consultation, he goes further and says it is deemed to mean Allah's pleasure, hence from Ali's mouth once again we read that the muhajirs and ansars voting and bayat to Ali r.a predecessors (may Allah be pleased with them) was Allah's pleasure.

maclatunji:

You are the one that claimed the Qur'an as justification for your rather unislamic position. I have asked you to provide the names of those hypocrites named in the Qur'an so that we may dislike them with you.

we do not want you to dislike anyone.in fact we are here to teach love-love for the Ahlul-Bayt (as) which Allah (swt) has obliged Muslims to observe in the Quran (Verse of Mawaddah).

in like manner,please provide the names of those "rightly guided caliphs" in the Quran so as you can make it easy for us to "love" Abu Bakr,Umar and Usthman. please provide us with their names in the Quran and help us learn your "islamic position".

lanrexlan:

Who among those people stated in your link falls into these categories?
Funny enough,you directed me to a link of one of your Shia brothers.What I will write will be based on what's posted in that link.

When Walid Ibn Jumai was among the narrators of a saying recorded in Ibn Kathir which is a sunni source,they called him a liar and that saying of Hudhaifah a fabricated lie.
.
Ibn Hazim claimed this narration of Hudhaifah is not reliable because it contains Walid Ibn Jumai among his narrators,therefore nullifying it.[Source:Al-Muhalla. Vol. 11, Pg. # 224.].This means Walid Ibn Jumai is unreliable and this saying was fabricated because it's a sunni source.

But when Ibn Hazim said that this same Walid Ibn Jumai revealed the names of the hypocrites in Shia sources[which wasn't even given in that link],then your brother agreed with him and quoted some scholars[which we don't know maybe they Shia scholars with Shia sources] praising Walid Ibn Jumai whom Ibn Hazim has already called 'unreliable' when he narrated through a sunni source.He says

Eww,it's very easy when a narration doesn't favor you it becomes fabricated.
So you decided to go with the story that favors your belief that the first three caliphs which Sunni believe in are hypocrites[Stated in your source].
You know what? Keep to your belief,we know they are hypocrites among the companions of the prophet(pbuh).Some which the prophet(pbuh)knew of and didn't know others.
Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah An-Nisa 4:63 -They (hypocrites) are those of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts;so turn aside from them (do not punish them) but admonish them,and speak to them an effective word (i.e. to believe in Allah,worship Him,obey Him,and be afraid of Him) to reach their innerselves.Those hypocrites the prophet(pbuh)knew of,Allah has asked him to admonish them.

your sources have provided the names of the hypocrites who tried to assasinate the Prophet (sa).simple.

the problem is not in knowing who they were,as their actions in so many instances that you still find excuses to give for them makes their position clear.

the problem is even if the Prophet (sa) was to be resurrected today and he makes mention of them,you will still find your way around that declaration to justify the actions of everyone who you group under the title of "sahaba".funny enough,in sunni sources and practice you find error and mistakes in the actions of prophets,but you lack the courage to point out one error of even an infamous sahaba,so that you dont admit what the Shia hold that not all the sahaba were righteous,pious,pure,faithful,honest,sincere and loyal to the cause of Islam and the Prophet (sa).the problem is in you-a 1400 years old methodology and mentality based on denial.its your problem.

So why are Shias cursing the hypocrites??

it really doesnt look like we read the same Quran.as far the Quran i read is concerned,the hypocrites are the worst of creatures and would dwell in the deepest segment of hell fire.they are worse than the kuffar and the mushrikeen.Allah (swt) and His creatures have cursed them in the Quran and therefore it is incumbent upon us as Muslims to curse them in every salat and in every dua.that is exactly what we Shia do.we do not deny the favor of our Lord,and we do not try to dodge to deny His words and Sunnah.

Chapter 63 (the Hypocrites/al-Munafiqoon) of the Holy Quran,Verse no. 4:

"When thou lookest at them, their exteriors please thee; and when they speak, thou listenest to their words. They are as (worthless as hollow) pieces of timber propped up, (unable to stand on their own). They think that every cry is against them. They are the enemies; so beware of them. [size=18pt]The curse of Allah be on them![/size] How are they deluded (away from the Truth)!"

Holy Quran 9:68
"Allah has promised the hypocrite men and hypocrite women and the disbelievers the fire of Hell, wherein they will abide eternally. It is sufficient for them. And [size=18pt]Allah has cursed them[/size], and for them is an enduring punishment."

therefore it is Allah's (swt) Sunnah as it is the Sunnah of the holy Prophet (sa) to curse the hypocrites.we too willl curse them until they repent if they ever do repent.the Prophet (sa) cursed them in Aqabah when they tried to assasinate him and they were 12 in number.it is your own duty to know their names so that you can save yourself from Allah's (swt) wrath by continually "blessing" them and asking Allah (swt) to be "pleased" with them.

LagosShia:

we do not want you to dislike anyone.in fact we are here to teach love-love for the Ahlul-Bayt (as) which Allah (swt) has obliged Muslims to observe in the Quran (Verse of Mawaddah).

in like manner,please provide the names of those "rightly guided caliphs" in the Quran so as you can make it easy for us to "love" Abu Bakr,Umar and Usthman. please provide us with their names in the Quran and help us learn your "islamic position".

Hahahahaha... I have not made any assertion regarding the Qur'an, your like-minded poster did and no one forced him to make it. It is one thing not to like the 4 rightly guided caliphs (RA), it is another to claim companions of the Prophet (SAW) are hypocrites.

By the way, I dislike hypocrites, who says they do not love the household of the prophet (SAW)? Definitely not moi.

maclatunji:

Hahahahaha... I have not made any assertion regarding the Qur'an, your like-minded poster did and no one forced him to make it. It is one thing not to like the 4 rightly guided caliphs (RA), it is another to claim companions of the Prophet (SAW) are hypocrites.

By the way, I dislike hypocrites, who says they do not love the household of the prophet (SAW)? Definitely not moi.

in other words,you cannot match up to your own challenge.

my like-mided poster did not assert anyone's name is mentioned in the Quran.you are the one who was "trigger-happy" to make that shot thinking you've got a tight hold of my like-mided poster.

my like-minded poster said the obvious: the Quran doesnt group all the sahaba into one group.there are the pious ones referred to and the hypocrites too,even though without specifying their individual names in the Quran.likewise,the Quran did not mention those who have elevated into the level of angels.next time think well before you think you can act smart.if there is anything "smart" about Islam,smartness is Shia in nature!!!

LagosShia:

your sources have provided the names of the hypocrites who tried to assasinate the Prophet (sa).simple.

Sunni sources that made mention of the hypocrites were the saying related by Hudhaifah in Ibn Kathir and Sahih Muslim and no name were mentioned there.

LagosShia: the problem is not in knowing who they were,as their actions in so many instances that you still find excuses to give for them makes their position clear.

the problem is even if the Prophet (sa) was to be resurrected today and he makes mention of them,you will still find your way around that declaration to justify the actions of everyone who you group under the title of "sahaba".

Funny,let us have the names of those hypocrites.If they fall under the categories of the characteristics of hypocrites listed by the prophet(pbuh),then no problem.

LagosShia: funny enough,in sunni sources and practice you find error and mistakes in the actions of prophets,but you lack the courage to point out one error of even an infamous sahaba,so that you dont admit what the Shia hold that not all the sahaba were righteous,pious,pure,faithful,honest,sincere and loyal to the cause of Islam and the Prophet (sa).the problem is in you-a 1400 years old methodology and mentality based on denial.its your problem.

Nobody says these companions of the prophet(pbuh) were perfect.These people are humans just like everyone and there aren't infallible.When some of the sahabas ran away from the battle of Uhud,we know it's bad to do that and that's a sin but their Lord has forgiven them.Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Imran 3:155 -Those of you who turned back on the day the two hosts met (i.e. the battle of Uhud),it was Shaitan (Satan) who caused them to backslide (run away from the battlefield) because of some (sins) they had earned.But Allah,indeed has forgiven them.Surely,Allah is Oft-Forgiving,Most Forbearing.If Allah(swt) has forgiven these people whom some Shias termed hypocrites because they ran away from the battlefield,then what's Shias problem with them?
The prophet(pbuh) gave the characteristics of an hypocrite,the question is does those whom Shia cursed fall under these categories listed by Muhammad(pbuh)?

LagosShia: it really doesnt look like we read the same Quran.as far the Quran i read is concerned,the hypocrites are the worst of creatures and would dwell in the deepest segment of hell fire.they are worse than the kuffar and the mushrikeen.Allah (swt) and His creatures have cursed them in the Quran and therefore it is incumbent upon us as Muslims to curse them in every salat and in every dua.that is exactly what we Shia do.we do not deny the favor of our Lord,and we do not try to dodge to deny His words and Sunnah.





therefore it is Allah's (swt) Sunnah as it is the Sunnah of the holy Prophet (sa) to curse the hypocrites.we too willl curse them until they repent if they ever do repent.the Prophet (sa) cursed them in Aqabah when they tried to assasinate him and they were 12 in number.it is your own duty to know their names so that you can save yourself from Allah's (swt) wrath by continually "blessing" them and asking Allah (swt) to be "pleased" with them.

My friend,Allah never ask you to curse the hypocrites.If Allah needs you do something he will reveal it in the Quran.When Allah needs the believers to send blessings on the prophet(pbuh),he revealed a verse for it[Surah Al-Ahzaab 33:56].
Allah doesn't ask you to curse the hypocrites,he ask the prophet(pbuh) to admonish them and speak words that will be effective on them.The curse of Allah is also on the disbelievers[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:89].Did Allah ask the prophet(pbuh)to curse them when inviting them to Islam? The prophet(pbuh) was even in deep grief over the disbelievers turning away from the Quran.He never gave up and I haven't find where the prophet(pbuh) cursed the hypocrites in Aqabah in that narration related by Ibn Kathir in his book.
Allah doesn't require you and any Shia to curse the hypocrites.These companions have worked their own way,if they were hypocrites then they will receive their due reward from Allah(swt) and Allah is never unjust to his slaves.