Nonso23:

I wouldn't mind you recommending history books for me at all. And I find this accusation on the catholic church very unfounded. For most of its time it has struggled to abolish the caste system in our land and have been met with strong opposition. And again this caste system has been in practice before colonial period. it was and is still ingrained in our culture. It was not introduced in the 19th century.It has always been around.

It has been around. but not discrimminatory.

Okija_juju:

Point is I have seen a Church hand a Pastor and an Usher over to the Devil for fornicating with an Usher. The Pastor and Usher were both single and dating when this happened.. Needless to say that this ended the relationship.

Name of Curch: Logos Ministries
Head Pastor: Yomi Isijola

Man u are serious o, mentioning the name of the church n pastor.

Anyways there is always a need for discipline bt it should always be done in love n prayers for the betterment of the erring party n not their damnation. Bt the fact that some do it wrongly doesn't mean we generalize n assume that is the way it is being done.

Anytin done outside the word of God which is the bible is mere doctrine of men.

Nonso23:

I wouldn't mind you recommending history books for me at all. And I find this accusation on the catholic church very unfounded. For most of its time it has struggled to abolish the caste system in our land and have been met with strong opposition. And again this caste system has been in practice before colonial period. it was and is still ingrained in our culture. It was not introduced in the 19th century.It has always been around.

http://books.google.com.ng/books?id=zg-CdmGkK4YC&pg=PT84&lpg=PT84&dq=igbo+caste+system+catholic+church&source=bl&ots=WvDHCDQr9Y&sig=-g5GLRvCf2BzgaCknmVG5dlf1ww&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kNTBUv2ZLsyp7QbttYGICQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=igbo%20caste%20system%20catholic%20church&f=false

Nonso23:

pray tell me then, what are the criteria for labelling a person as OSU? Or do the OSU people fall from the sky

In the actual context, a person dedicated to the serve the Gods of Igboland would be an Osu.


I think we should curb this discussion here. If you wish , open a new thread and I'll be there.


Mod Mynd_44 is very high-handed and will have us banned after the warning.

Okija_juju:

http://books.google.com.ng/books?id=zg-CdmGkK4YC&pg=PT84&lpg=PT84&dq=igbo+caste+system+catholic+church&source=bl&ots=WvDHCDQr9Y&sig=-g5GLRvCf2BzgaCknmVG5dlf1ww&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kNTBUv2ZLsyp7QbttYGICQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=igbo%20caste%20system%20catholic%20church&f=false

haha Good one brother!

PAGAN 9JA:



haha Good one brother!

The Gods are wise..

mollie12:

You can't get more real than the very word of God. And if the Bible isn't real enough for you, then it's not fellow Christians you need to be facing, it's Jesus.

Excommunication is brought up in the case of UNREPENTANT christians. Note the emphasis on unrepentant. There is no one that can claim to have conquered sin - the difference now is, do you mistakenly slip and fall into it, or do you enthusiastically and joyfully dive into it? So your logic is not holding here.

Paul wrote portions of the Bible, so why pick and choose? Please can we end all the ad hominem attacks on this Apostle? Its not only unchristian, but it is a demonstration of ignorance. Paul's writings are in harmony with the rest of scripture and by the way, God qualified him to write the Bible - who are we to disqualify him?

Matthew 9: 10-13

10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


The above, is what Jesus said. I don't know how clearer I can make it. Except you wanna argue that some portions of the Bible are to be chosen, while others are picked. In any case, try reconciling the above words with Paul's. You're the Christian.


Meanwhile, whether unrepentant or not, It's not your place to judge. You do the preaching, so far as the person isn't stopping you from doing so to the congregation.

masonkz:

Matthew 9: 10-13

10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

11 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


The above, is what Jesus said. I don't know how clearer I can make it. Except you wanna argue that some portions of the Bible are to be chosen, while others are picked. In any case, try reconciling the above words with Paul's. You're the Christian.


Meanwhile, whether unrepentant or not, It's not your place to judge. You do the preaching, so far as the person isn't stopping you from doing so to the congregation.

Oshe,Mase the Evangelist.

Hezron Lorraine: Oshe,Mase the Evangelist.

There are grounds for excommunication in the Church.Please study carefully the scriptures quoted above.

We do not make statements based on assumptions,emotions or sentiments as Christians.We have the word as our guide.There are examples and scriptures dealing with this issue.

It is very right for a church to excommunicate an erring member for the purpose of sanctification.
After an erring or sinning member has undergo church discipline several times and such a one still refuse to change, then send him or her out frm d church to avoid polluting other members negativly. If not, the church will become a den of theives and prostitutes.

God bless.

Goshen360: One thing I know is, today's church is still far from Christ like Christianity. Christ never taught such neither the Apostles. Until we understand Christ-like Christianity, we will continue to promote religion thinking we're doing God a favour. The Christ I know, will never excommunicate any of His followers - that's the Christianity of Christ.

I think you are wrong to say the Apostles didn't teach ex-communication. Here is 1 Corinthians 5:

1 Corinthians 5
King James Version (KJV)
5 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I don't think it can get any clearer that Apostle Paul was advocating ex-communication until an erring member of the Body repented of his ways.

The Church is actually meant for people like Cossy; to bring them to the saving knowledge of Christ. It is not such people that excommunication applies to. It is those who ALREADY KNOW the truth but continue in their sin despite several warnings that get ex-communicated. E.g Sammy Okposo sleeping with and impregnating several Choir members in HOTR while being the music director...

homesteady: This topic just came up while we are still arguing about cossy the indecency-star going to church!!
Why shouldn't they Excommunicate erring members? Is it until they start influencing other church members?
Haven't you heard of this saying that "bad company corrupts good manners"? Isn't it better to remove the unrepentant bad egg immediately before it spoils the other eggs?

truthislight:

Nope!

Disfellowshiping helps keep the congregation clean.

Satan was sent out of heaven to keep it clean, so, the congregation has to be kept clean, and the bible supports it and the congregation is to be protected also.

What that is not supproted is your own personal opinion.

Your kind of opinion is why christianity has turned to houses of prostitutes today.

Were you told that it is all kind of people that must enter the kingdom of God ?

Your opinion does not count, but rather what is written in the bible counts, or, do you have biblical evidences for your stance ?

Yes, christ asked for forgiveness, but unrepentant sinners are to be sent out, and that is what the bible teaches.

Peace.

Are erring pastors disfellowshipped too?

How about the situation where the supposed sinner who needs to be excommunicated is the leader of the church whom everyone is too scared to admonish?

truthislight:

Nope!

Disfellowshiping helps keep the congregation clean.

Satan was sent out of heaven to keep it clean, so, the congregation has to be kept clean, and the bible supports it and the congregation is to be protected also.

What that is not supproted is your own personal opinion.

Your kind of opinion is why christianity has turned to houses of prostitutes today.

Were you told that it is all kind of people that must enter the kingdom of God ?

Your opinion does not count, but rather what is written in the bible counts, or, do you have biblical evidences for your stance ?

Yes, christ asked for forgiveness, but unrepentant sinners are to be sent out, and that is what the bible teaches.

Peace.

are u now saying the rest of the congregations are saints abi? Hmm , what about people that do worst that are not caught ? I do wonder sometimes that all ds armed robbers, cultists, rapist assassins etc do attend churchs and sit besides us . Hmmm

ohemm: How about the situation where the supposed sinner who needs to be excommunicated is the leader of the church whom everyone is too scared to admonish?

sis nobidi i ripit no1 is INDISPENSIBLE in di sight of GOD...the bible sayz dat GOD whu wud judge the world is not a RESPECTER of any PERSONz weda dey anoint ur head 500billion tymz daily

ademega:
are u now saying the rest of the congregations are saints abi? Hmm , what about people that do worst that are not caught ? I do wonder sometimes that all ds armed robbers, cultists, rapist assassins etc do attend churchs and sit besides us . Hmmm

xcept u bi small pikin u no go dey talk lyk diz...wen u (G.O, PASTOR, wateva) are caught u are 2 bi disciplined but if u are nut caught it is diff

ohemm: How about the situation where the supposed sinner who needs to be excommunicated is the leader of the church whom everyone is too scared to admonish?

True, COZA's pastor comes to mind

nekaa: I thought the church was suppose to be like our refuge, home for all, I thought the God we serve still looks out for us even when we have bin unfaithful, I thought our religion has asked us nt to condemn anyone... so if Christianity and the church are still these things, they are nt suppose to excommunicate members for any reason.

1 Corinthians 12:12
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the membrs of that one body, being many, are one bodie: so also is Christ:

Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Romans 6:13
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Yes the church do, if not so may people will turn the house of God to a house of prostitute.

There are certain place in the Bible where Paul mentioned giving somebody up for Satan because of the kind of abomination reported from that Church. A lady dating a married man is NOT good and could set a bad example for the congregantsvif not dealt with except the person in question repents.

truthislight:

Nope!

Disfellowshiping helps keep the congregation clean.

Satan was sent out of heaven to keep it clean, so, the congregation has to be kept clean, and the bible supports it and the congregation is to be protected also.

What that is not supproted is your own personal opinion.

Your kind of opinion is why christianity has turned to houses of prostitutes today.

Were you told that it is all kind of people that must enter the kingdom of God ?

Your opinion does not count, but rather what is written in the bible counts, or, do you have biblical evidences for your stance ?

Yes, christ asked for forgiveness, but unrepentant sinners are to be sent out, and that is what the bible teaches.

Peace.

arrant rubbish... we are called christians (christ like).. christ didnt excommunicate peter for denying him or judas for selling him... christ said he came for the sinners not the righteous so technically his home is for sinners strifing to live a good life.. so any one who is pure and holy without sin should go and die and go to heaven and join his people.. and anyone who claims to be pure calls God a lair because no man is perfect...
you only excommunicate these people because their sin came out in the open.. wat of urs hidden would u excommunicate your selve.... it is just pure hypocrisy..... you should find a way to help the person as a true christian . because your job as one is to bring people to God.. you have not right to send them away

djcrooky:

arrant rubbish... we are called christians (christ like).. christ didnt excommunicate peter for denying him or judas for selling him... christ said he came for the sinners not the righteous so technically his home is for sinners strifing to live a good life.. so any one who is pure and holy without sin should go and die and go to heaven and join his people.. and anyone who claims to be pure calls God a lair because no man is perfect...
you only excommunicate these people because their sin came out in the open.. wat of urs hidden would u excommunicate your selve.... it is just pure hypocrisy..... you should find a way to help the person as a true christian . because your job as one is to bring people to God.. you have not right to send them away

You are mistaking the purpose and situation which calls for the so called excommunication. You should read I Cor. 5 and digest it.

Lord_Reed:

You are mistaking the purpose and situation which calls for the so called excommunication. You should read I Cor. 5 and digest it.

that part talks about the church being proud and encouraging the sins... the fact that you do not excommunicate the person doesnt mean you encourage it. there are other ways of dealing it... my point is if everybody's heart was open for us to see who would not be excommunicated.. those excommunicating even have worse sins... you have a pregnant girl in the church... after rebuking her.. instead of the church helping her through that time and making sure the baby isnt aborted.. she is sent out .. to what end.... teaching compassion or wickedness or hypocrisy

djcrooky:

that part talks about the church being proud and encouraging the sins... the fact that you do not excommunicate the person doesnt mean you encourage it. there are other ways of dealing it... my point is if everybody's heart was open for us to see who would not be excommunicated.. those excommunicating even have worse sins... you have a pregnant girl in the church... after rebuking her.. instead of the church helping her through that time and making sure the baby isnt aborted.. she is sent out .. to what end.... teaching compassion or wickedness or hypocrisy

That is why I say you need to understand the circumstance that made Paul call for it. This was someone who was openly having an affair with his father's wife, a man that is a brother in the church. Paul told them to cast him out UNTIL he repented. The casting out is not permanent and is not for every case of misdeed.

You talk as though he is advocating that everybody who sins should be cast out. That is not the case. Take even for instance the case the OP stated, a girl dating a married man, repeatedly told to desist and yet she still carries on. IMHO the Church is well within christian dictates to excommunicate her and since she did not repent it becomes even justified as she simply will provide evidence for others that such a thing is acceptable to the church.

Please don't say Jesus didn't cast out people, you know the scriptures where he cast out the traders from the temple and even went physical with it so do not assume He doesn't use harsh methods/tough love on His children. He even repeatedly castigated the Pharisees and Sadducees so no one has any justification to say that God doesn't go tough on His own. The scriptures say that judgement will begin in the house of God and if we can hardly stand then what of those without? This tells us that there is a strictness required of us as christians and the sooner we learn this the better.

Lord_Reed:

That is why I say you need to understand the circumstance that made Paul call for it. This was someone who was openly having an affair with his father's wife, a man that is a brother in the church. Paul told them to cast him out UNTIL he repented. The casting out is not permanent and is not for every case of misdeed.

You talk as though he is advocating that everybody who sins should be cast out. That is not the case. Take even for instance the case the OP stated, a girl dating a married man, repeatedly told to desist and yet she still carries on. IMHO the Church is well within christian dictates to excommunicate her and since she did not repent it becomes even justified as she simply will provide evidence for others that such a thing is acceptable to the church.

Please don't say Jesus didn't cast out people, you know the scriptures where he cast out the traders from the temple and even went physical with it so do not assume He doesn't use harsh methods/tough love on His children. He even repeatedly castigated the Pharisees and Sadducees so no one has any justification to say that God doesn't go tough on His own. The scriptures say that judgement will begin in the house of God and if we can hardly stand then what of those without? This tells us that there is a strictness required of us as christians and the sooner we learn this the better.

i see your point... but i just think that you are using just a part... remember matt 9 10-13... the bible also talks about unlimited forgiveness...we should never relent in an effort to bring a soul to christ... iono if u get me tho

djcrooky:


i see your point... but i just think that you are using just a part... remember matt 9 10-13... the bible also talks about unlimited forgiveness...we should never relent in an effort to bring a soul to christ... iono if u get me tho

I support your view but must recognise that discipline should be applied in the house of God same way a parent will tell a child go to your room or kneel down and hands up. Punishment is not permanent and is not wicked when applied in love.