KenGali:

You are really so used to desperately trying to debunk specific religious beliefs that you cannot do without a specific God.

If Atheism is true, then you do not need the name of a specific God to debunk the God Gap as you call it.
The God Gap, leaving out any details of the specific God, whether he is a life form from another planet, a whole population of them, male, female, divine or not, or whatever, totally renders your core belief in the lack of existence of a deity baseless and actually stupid.

Like I told you before, if you woke up in a desert and saw a white washed building, with no one around the first realisation is not the name of the person who built it, but the fact that someone did build it. Hence, you can not blankly say you are the first person at the location. Which is what you atheist are trying to do all the time. Albeit with the most faulty logic I ever heard of.

The fact that you or I cannot bring a physical proof of the name of God if not by faith, does not in any way debunk his existence, there are plenty physical evidences of his works.

kj_hova: A lot of guys here have raised the idea that design in nature supports the existence of god or at least a "higher intelligent being".

Ok. Let's test this arguement. Suppose design in nature is proof enough of a higher being, who is to say if this being is a "he" as most have been saying? Can this being be a "she"? Or an "it"? Then perhaps we are actually dealing with a set of beings? As someone suggested that automobile production is analogous to natural design, can we then suppose that the universe was designed by a mega factory of gods? If we accept that design in nature is proof of god, which of the existing gods win the bet? Allah (with no son), Jehovah (with 1 son) or Zeus (with many sons & daughters)?

Then let's introduce Satan which is the arch enemy of the Abrahamic gods (Jehovah/Allah/Yahweh), since he was "cast unto Earth" according to the bible, are we safe from his operations if we move to, say, Saturn or Mars? If human biosphere spread to the next galaxy, will god grant satan a charter there too or will he find another satan for that realm so he can send his son to die there too?

Finally, is there really a difference between the god theory & the big bang theory of the origin of the Universe? Religionists have always attacked the big bang with one main challenge which is "what started the bang & where did the bang materials come from?" We can ask the same of the god theory, what started god & where was god before he/she/it/they started??

scarred9jan:

And what are these evidences? And pls don't insult my intelligence that it includes my waking up everyday, rats wake up every morning and I don't see them praying to god. And you guys really make funny, near impossible examples to illustrate ur arguments.. What's with the whole waking up in a desert and finding building (whether whitewashed or plastered with a new paint job). We are using logical points here to discuss and you come up with funny stories. Well, am not surprised.. If you can believe in god then its only fair you buttress ur ideas with far-fetched examples.

GeneralShepherd: Since I officially dumped the idea of a god, I haven't seen my parents. I went home this christmas,it was a wonderful holiday for me,little did I know my mum was hurting deep down inside!

She called me today being the 1st of January 2014 and started telling me how she asked Yahweh to give her a son after she had four girls(who are all married) which He did according to her. She told me how she has barely slept most nights in the pasy year because of my atheism. Also said it might lead her to her early grave if I continue living without god.

My dilemma is I can't pretend about god and the bible,yet I don't want my mum to die or have sleepless nights! When people read the bible the smile on face shows I don't believe any of it, when I try to pray I feel like I'm mad talking to myself or like a kid talking to Barney and friends!

How do I undo what has been done! How do I unknow what I know about god and religion? How do I ignore the inconsistencies?

I love my mum so much and will gladly become a sheeple for her to be happy

Buzzonix: From what i read its safe to say Believers have been counter-attacked in every aspect of the theist argument.
The only conviction believers now cling onto dearly is that of the 'intelligent designer' Lol
lest i say that the conviction has also been proven illogical
Pls i would love if any enlightened fellow/believer can provide an answer or a logical explanation to the above.


Blinding ignorance does mislead us.
O! Wretched mortals, OPEN YOUR EYES!

larrymoore: @op. I understand how free one can be to be totally liberal without having any need to serve God; I don't blame u for being what u are.

Try and follow ur parent's advice, u absolutely have nothing to lose if u serve God and later come to realise that the bible and the quran narration were all fictional but it wll be late to die without faith, if God exist.

KenGali:

You have only read a part of my post, suggest you read the earlier ones from which they arose.

To cut you short, the evidence is the fact that till today, we have not seen any evidence of a natural process that independently designs consciously and randomly to create intelligent design. Not even evolution, as it requires an initialisation and seeding, not to talk of the algorithmic guiding the use and disuse or survival ( which are all optimisation processes).

Both you and the rat you talk of, are too complex to be created by chance, hence are evidences of the work of a conscious and purposeful being. In all our human intelligence and capability, even we are yet to design biological machine, talkless of randomized chance. Further evidence is that in unregulated form, the world we live in is very volatile, from the Universe or multi-verse, to the sun and asteroids and stars, to our moon and our planet. The probability of the stability we enjoy today in our world is near impossible to be ascribed to chance.

mandhi!!!!:
@generalsheperd, if I may ask, y don't u believe in GOD.

KenGali:

You have only read a part of my post, suggest you read the earlier ones from which they arose.

To cut you short, the evidence is the fact that till today, we have not seen any evidence of a natural process that independently designs consciously and randomly to create intelligent design. Not even evolution, as it requires an initialisation and seeding, not to talk of the algorithmic guiding the use and disuse or survival ( which are all optimisation processes).

Both you and the rat you talk of, are too complex to be created by chance, hence are evidences of the work of a conscious and purposeful being. In all our human intelligence and capability, even we are yet to design biological machine, talkless of randomized chance. Further evidence is that in unregulated form, the world we live in is very volatile, from the Universe or multi-verse, to the sun and asteroids and stars, to our moon and our planet. The probability of the stability we enjoy today in our world is near impossible to be ascribed to chance.

SIR ANDREWS: I sent u a PM

Noble.G:
Pretending to be a christian to make your mum happy will be bad for you and I don't recommend it.
If you must change anything in your life, let it be by your own will. Nobody (including your mum) has any right whatsoever to dictate how you live your life. Your mum should understand that religion is not by force.

I'm Agnostic and my extended family is unaware. My wife is religious and she doesn't disturb me about it. My Mum will find out by herself and not from me. You shouldn't have told your mum.

Now she knows, all you've to do is to explain to her that you're now a grown man and would like to live your life the way that pleases you. Remind her that religion is not by force. And ask her if someone tries to force her to start attending a different church like O.O.Obu or become a muslin convert, what would she do? Won't she protect her belief?

Most Nigerian parents just don't understand. They keep hanging unto old mentality.

Noble.G:
Pretending to be a christian to make your mum happy will be bad for you and I don't recommend it.
If you must change anything in your life, let it be by your own will. Nobody (including your mum) has any right whatsoever to dictate how you live your life. Your mum should understand that religion is not by force.

I'm Agnostic and my extended family is unaware. My wife is religious and she doesn't disturb me about it. My Mum will find out by herself and not from me. You shouldn't have told your mum.

Now she knows, all you've to do is to explain to her that you're now a grown man and would like to live your life the way that pleases you. Remind her that religion is not by force. And ask her if someone tries to force her to start attending a different church like O.O.Obu or become a muslin convert, what would she do? Won't she protect her belief?

Most Nigerian parents just don't understand. They keep hanging unto old mentality.

Okija_juju:



[b]I guess you are left with only one choice... PRETEND IN FRONT OF HER..

In my case, I was born into a Christian home, raised a Christian, my Dad became a pastor at some point, I also later became "born again" and started preaching and doing all that Christian stuff until one day... I slept woke up and read the bible and it all just stopped making any sense to me.. The more I tried, the less sense it made. I contacted a pastor and had a discussion that turned into a debate. He ended up telling me I was possessed by a demon.. prayer started to feel really silly to me, speaking in tongues started sounded like lunacy. In fact, everything just fell apart.. I was not influenced by friends or anything, I arrived here on my own.

Now my mum has basically given up on me.. My dad would not talk about it. My siblings are indifferent. My wife is neither for it nor does she stress me about it.

So all I do is go to church with my Dad whenever I visit. (b)I avoid religious conversations with them or around them.(/b) I pray with them and do whatever's it is that pleases them. (b)The fact that I am who I am does not mean I can't respect their feelings and way of life. None of us really know the answers to life..(/b)

I love dis MOST in d thread.

So my guy, pretend when around them. That's my advice.


_{Thank me later.. The gods are wise..}[/b]

KenGali:

Even if I told you his name, are you even equipped with enough sensors to detect him.
My friend free your mind from the bonds of linear thinking. You are just a biological machine with only five sensors. Each is highly limited. Your eye can only detect a fraction of the electromagnetic waves around you. What on earth makes you confident in your limited knowledge as a man to make sweeping statements about the extent of being. The fact that a man like Einstein could provide a theoretical background for you to move from one place to another without time interval should be enough to humble you about our ignorance as to what is and what is not! You are on a ball huge compare to your size, spinning round at more than thousand meters per second, with energy supplied by an even bigger nuclear reactor, a moon stabilizers the wobbling of your ball, in the midst of gravitational pulls from a million other masses. You do not even know the origin of Gravity that has been stabilized for you, yet you wish to make aspersions about the origin of the system designer.
If you are so smart and logical can your tell me where gravity comes from, apart from the fact that we observe it between masses. After all gravity is one of the processes that makes life both possible and difficult at the same time. It is the very kind of thing that Atheist believe in.

roymary:


Logic has failed the world. Its not one-dimensional. Lets talk about homosexuality---America which you admire so much acknowledge the act and sees nothing wrong in it. Logically, is homosexuality appropriate? Stop the false alarm and face whats vital- the problem with Nigeria is bad governance! Put the basic amenities in place in Ikeja and you'll have a city more beautiful than you have in Downtown Chicago. This has little or nothing to do with religion. I do not need God to tell me to train and feed my kids properly.

Logic has failed the world. Lets talk about War. The NWO invaded Iraq , i thought that would stop the bombing and killing--million of dollars down the drain, thousands of human lives lost. Where is the successful logic here??

I dunno how y'all grew up but someone did not do a great job telling most kids about Christ hence we have men and women from Christian homes who turned out to be atheists. Its disgraceful but it is what it is.

KenGali:

Even if I told you his name, are you even equipped with enough sensors to detect him.
My friend free your mind from the bonds of linear thinking. You are just a biological machine with only five sensors. Each is highly limited. Your eye can only detect a fraction of the electromagnetic waves around you. What on earth makes you confident in your limited knowledge as a man to make sweeping statements about the extent of being. The fact that a man like Einstein could provide a theoretical background for you to move from one place to another without time interval should be enough to humble you about our ignorance as to what is and what is not! You are on a ball huge compare to your size, spinning round at more than thousand meters per second, with energy supplied by an even bigger nuclear reactor, a moon stabilizers the wobbling of your ball, in the midst of gravitational pulls from a million other masses. You do not even know the origin of Gravity that has been stabilized for you, yet you wish to make aspersions about the origin of the system designer.
If you are so smart and logical can your tell me where gravity comes from, apart from the fact that we observe it between masses. After all gravity is one of the processes that makes life both possible and difficult at the same time. It is the very kind of thing that Atheist believe in.

mandhi!!!!:
@generalsheperd, if I may ask, y don't u believe in GOD.

KenGali:

Crappy questions.
Before asking these, update yourself about the nature of the universe, read a bit about the string theory and the membrane theory, the idea of multi-verses and find answers to some of your questions.

However, you questions are crappy because they do not relate to the question of the existence of an intelligent designer. You are rather asking about the details of his nature, which if we all knew, we won't be arguing in the first instance. You are using a fallacy of argument, asking secondary questions without disproving the primary one. Your argument should factually centre on providing an alternative source of intelligent design, if not a conscious, purposeful, non-human being.

It is like me asking you the origin of the plethora of processes which you atheist prefer to reference creation and intelligent design to.

kj_hova:

I understand that. However, you don't need to employ black bashing or self depreciation to make your point.

scarred9jan:

Dude.. Humans have started cloning living things, and have you heard of stem cell technology. In time I believe biological machines will also be developed (if they haven't started already)

KenGali:

You are referencing a fictional work. My question is what was it that they were talking of that bound them together, was it another religion or atheism?
Mind you that what the west that we so reference today is was born out of religion. We are yet to see what they will be without religion.

tunchi88: My people perish for the lack of knowledge..brother,I don't want to go biblical on this topic,God gave us the freedom to choose whom to serve,don't pretend to believe in him because you are scared to loose your mum,you cannot be logical with God,bcus the way he does things is beyond our undastndn,take ur stance and believe in what you want but for me and my household,we choose to believe and serve the almighty God,the creator of d universe and its contents..yeah,Religion is d reason y the world is in a great quagmire,that's y the bible is there to guide us...

KenGali:

Even if I told you his name, are you even equipped with enough sensors to detect him.
My friend free your mind from the bonds of linear thinking. You are just a biological machine with only five sensors. Each is highly limited. Your eye can only detect a fraction of the electromagnetic waves around you. What on earth makes you confident in your limited knowledge as a man to make sweeping statements about the extent of being. The fact that a man like Einstein could provide a theoretical background for you to move from one place to another without time interval should be enough to humble you about our ignorance as to what is and what is not! You are on a ball huge compare to your size, spinning round at more than thousand meters per second, with energy supplied by an even bigger nuclear reactor, a moon stabilizers the wobbling of your ball, in the midst of gravitational pulls from a million other masses. You do not even know the origin of Gravity that has been stabilized for you, yet you wish to make aspersions about the origin of the system designer.
If you are so smart and logical can your tell me where gravity comes from, apart from the fact that we observe it between masses. After all gravity is one of the processes that makes life both possible and difficult at the same time. It is the very kind of thing that Atheist believe in.

EGRESS: @OP, Jesus d way d truth and the life, give him chance in ur life and u will see what He is capable of.

Buzzonix: You're are still beating around the bush.
All this Gravity, Nuclear reactor, moon stabilizer ish are still part of your 'intelligent designer' convictions,
I asked a simple question, tell me or give a logical explanation about who designed the Intelligent designer, but rather you choose to rant with bitterness about me having five sensory organ and Einstein's theory of relativity.

Buzzonix: You're are still beating around the bush.
All this Gravity, Nuclear reactor, moon stabilizer ish are still part of your 'intelligent designer' convictions,
I asked a simple question, tell me or give a logical explanation about who designed the Intelligent designer, but rather you choose to rant with bitterness about me having five sensory organ and Einstein's theory of relativity.

Buzzonix: You got mail Sir.