Joshthefirst: Sir, I believe there is the law written in stone, and there is its copy written in Men's consciousness, the absolute law of God.

We understand the law of the Spirit you talking about, the law the OP is advocating here is the law of sin and death, the one that helps to revive the sin nature in man. We understand what you talking about.

@Goshen. I have sent it.

Joagbaje:

The scripture the early church had was the Old Testament .

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The only issue is that a man is no longer justified by works . The new was based on the old . But in the Old Testament time they sought justification by them but for us we are doing the word . Adultery is still adultery , murder is still murder.

Bro, the fact dt a man sin is not a justification dt he doesnt reciev instructions from d Spirit. Whn instructions ar given, its left to d hearer to obey or disobey. Even d Law of Moses in all its awareness was still disobeyed by many. Does dt means they were not given such instructions?

Until we find d clear line of separation btw d Law of d Spirit and d Law of Sin and Death, we will always wallow in error.

Lik i told u earlier, adultery is adultery not because d Law says so, but d Spirit instructs such. Becos u hav so much similarity in a rule doesnt make it d same.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. .

If u r dead to d Law of sin and death, why live by it again.

On Justification

A man who live justified does such by Faith. Faith (by d Law of d Spirit) and Law of Moses cannot co exist. Its either u r justified and live, exist by faith or by d Law. The death of Christ didnt just obtain justification for us,it made d Law of Moses of no effect again and forever for those who trust in Him.

Wat do u say to ds.
If d Law of Moses is still in effect for a believer, then d consequences much also b in effect. A man who is bound by d Law is also bound by its consequence. Then wat will u say on d judgment of him (believer) dt transgresses d Law. Does d same judge still in effect as given in d Law? Does d Law of d Spirit says kill anyone who kills, kill an adulterer, stone d witch as d Law of Moses said. So how do u kno dt u shouldnt kill an adulterer? IS it by d Law of sin and death or by d Law of d Spirit?

How will a man who is justified by d spirit of life now depends on sin and death. Many hav claimed dt d only defect in d Law is to giv justification, hence wat Jesus gave but in reality thr life style, ministry, teaching and discussions show thr absolute reliance on d Law to receive God's approval, blessings, justification. If not, how will a minister who says he reciev justification by d blood comes to believe dt.

1. U receive God's blessings and material provisions when u pay tithe/offering?
2. Prayers ar answered, given priority by God based on ur level of obedient to giving money etc?
3. Obtaining righteousness and holiness are about ur way of life. etc?

Arent all ds a reward systems only found in d Law. D truth is a man's beliefs will always b reflected in his words and actions no matter how much he claims to b justified by d grace, or live by faith.

Jesus said u cannot serve two master.
Its either u serve d Law unto sin and death or u serve d Spirit unto life.

Bro, Hav u heard about saved sinners in d region whr d preaching of d gospel is capital offence? A family got saved, filled wit d holyghost b4 d preacher got killed and his only bible burnt. Of wat instructions do u think such family will live by? (of d Spirit or of d Letter). If they were carnivorous cavemen, of wat instructions will they live by whn they find thr next prey (human)? Bro, d Law of d Spirit written in our heart is light years far from bein d Law Moses gav to d Israelite.

I m saved by faith in d blood, justified by faith, live by faith and on d last day will appear only by faith in d blood.

Alwaystrue:

Of a truth, studying to shew ourselves approved of God cannot be underemphasized. It is the blueprint.
God said 'My people' perish for lack of knowledge. God was saying His people perish not some heathen. We have been given all that pertains to life and godliness and as such we need to understand by His word (books) how to go about living the abundantly life God has given us. Paul says we needs to press on to lay hold of what Christ has won us for Himself. The onus is on us to press in.

Genesis 26:5 says that Abraham obeyed God's voice, and kept His charge, His commandments, His statutes, and His laws...even before it was WRITTEN down. There is always the law in our spirit that let's us know when we are doing right or wrong so much that we don't have the inner peace on the Spirit gives if we keep going against His will and when we search the scriptures we find it is actually written. There are so many things we see newly in the word of God that speaks life, light to our way and is a lamp to our feet. It is just amazing.

Sister, is d Law of d Spirit, written in our heart d same as d Law of sin and death? Paul made a very clear distinctn.
D laws of two nations can hav so much in common, but dt doesnt make them d same. One is unto life d other is unto death.

11 Corith 3:6, ... not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

D Law of Moses gave no room for repetitive error, its judgment is sharp and ontime. If dt was wat Abram lived by, he wouldnt hav been d father of Faith after doubting God and fearful many times.

U may need to ask ursef, by which Law did Abraham lived? Wat about Adam, Cain, Abel, Noah etc. of wat Law were they living. Is it d Law of sin and death.

Whn u see d word God's commandments, statutes, laws dont come to fast conclusion dt its d same as given to Moses.

Sister, thr is a Law of God in effect now and its not dt of sin and death (Law of Moses). Bro Paul called it d Law of d Spirit of Life.

If u can ask ursef ds questions as given in 11 Corith 3, it will bcome clearer of wat Law of God we live by.

Is d Law we lived by still minister death?
Is d Law we lived by still minister condemnation?

If ur answer to ds is NO, then thr is a diff Law in effect, if Yes, then.....

Joagbaje:

The scripture the early church had was the Old Testament .

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The only issue is that a man is no longer justified by works . The new was based on the old . But in the Old Testament time they sought justification by them but for us we are doing the word . Adultery is still adultery , murder is still murder.

I will ask a question : if a father would have sex with his own daughter by her consent is it a sin ?

If an elder would brother have sex with his sister by consent is it a sin?

And pls don't say it doesn't happen becsuse I counsel many people. And some don't even know it's wrong. Some close relative have married one another . Some families are having issues over such marriages . Until you show them from scriptures . And they go . " is it in the bible? but I love her , what do I do. ?

Why would Paul and other apostle be instructing early church on morality when they have Holy Spirit in them to lead them into all truth .

Romans 7:7
Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”

The moral instructions of the apostles were based on the law. They can't justify or make or righteous before God. We have the nature of God and the ability to do right but we must learn the right and wrong to develop our senses. If not conscience can be defiled and hardened. And we may not know.

Hebrews 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Take for example Christians insulting , harassing , lying and abusing others on this forum , how come the Holy Spirit hadn't told them this is evil . We can't blame our wrongs on the holly spirit becsuse. " HE HASNT TOLD ME " it's for us to study and develop the character of God. Our knowledge and development is personal responsibility regardless of our titles .

1 Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

What word , remember the scripture they had was Old Testament . Paul asked for his scrolls he told Timothy to study. ( Old Testament )

The only condemnation of the law is that it lack the power to justification because christ had done that for us. But the moral principle of the law are for learning .

Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

@Gombs

I will like to bring out the following from Jo' post (It is not a summary though)

a. The Matter of the OT as being the only scripture the first generation Christian used.

b. The matter of the law not being able to justify Christians.

A. What Scriptures did the First Generation Christians use?

It is true that the scripture the first generation Christians used were the OT. Indeed from Matthew 4 we see Jesus quoting copiously from the OT so as to defeat the temptation of Satan. Most of Paul's doctrine came from the OT. Remember this famous quote of not bridling the mouth of the Ox that threshes the wheat. No one contest this.

But we must put an end to this position when it is becoming a doctrinal position that seems to be made popular by the likes of Bidam so as to justify being zealous for the law. At such a junction we must remind ourselves that there is a scripture like this one:

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. - 2 Peter 3

]

Peter recognized Paul's epistles as scriptures. We see Paul himself encouraging the churches to read the epistles he has written to each of them in Colosians. Another one:

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Ephesians 2

That is God's intention was to have the NT church built on the ministry and writing of the apostles and prophets. So what the apostles did is scripture also, and the early Christians saw what they did and wrote as scripture.

So the doctrine that all the scripture they had was OT is wrong.

B. The matter of the law not being a means of Justification [b]only.[/b]

It will take a poor reader of the NT to think that all that Paul and the other apostles taught was that the law could not justify. They indeed stated more and a good reading of the book of Galatians reveals this. Let us quote some scriptures:

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. - Galatians 2

Indeed this scripture shows it clearly that the Christian cannot be justified by the law. But it also goes further. It tell us in verse 21 that RIGHTEOUSNESS cannot come from keeping the law. The Christian righteousness encompasses all that he is from the time of Justification until his glorification. Our righteousness in Christ is our right standing. If the the law gives right standing then we do not need Christ. We need him because only faith and not the works of the law can bring this righteousness. "The life that i now live I live by the faith of the Son of God..."

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? - Galatians 3

What is Paul saying here? You are justified by faith, yes. fine. But how then do you think that having been justified by faith you can now become perfect by keeping the law? Paul calls them foolish for trying to use the law to obtain righteousness and right standing. The issue was what the Galatians were doing after they were saved and not what they were doing to be saved. I would encourage a careful unbiased study of Galatians.

Paul bringing up the matter of circumcision was to show clearly that the practice of Judaism is not Christianity.

So the matter of the law is way beyond it being not a means to justification; the NT clearly shows that we cannot use the law of Moses to live the Christian life.

Look at the list I enumerated from Ephesians 4. Is it not clear from that that the laws in the Christian life is way more than the laws of Moses? Can we not see that Moses' laws were a school master to lead us to justification by faith and the filling of the Spirit? Can we not see that following our infilling and the reading of the NT, we have ample laws to attend to both on the pages of the NT and on our hearts? I will encourge our brethren who are zealous for the law not to imitate the example of those disciples in Jerusalem. Read the scriptures well; they are the Judaizers that opposed Paul all of his life; they are the ones stealing in to curtail the disciples liberty. Do we take our example from them or from those who knew how to use the law lawfully?

Paul is an inspired author of scripture. And I am waiting for that person who will tell me he was not. No one is discontenancing Jesus' words for Paul. From the doctrine of dispensation, it is clear that Jesus operated under the law and was sent to the Jews. This is what informed a lot of thing he taught. We can learn from them and follow the moral rules in them. But the blue print for the Church and the Church Age will come from revealed truths by the apostles through the Holy Spirit on the pages of their epistles to the church.

I hope I have helped you Gombs?

DrummaBoy:
@Gombs
I will like to bring out the following from Jo' post (It is not a summary though)
a. The Matter of the OT as being the only scripture the first generation Christian used.
b. The matter of the law not being able to justify Christians.
A. What Scriptures did the First Generation Christians use?
It is true that the scripture the first generation Christians used were the OT. Indeed from Matthew 4 we see Jesus quoting copiously from the OT so as to defeat the temptation of Satan. Most of Paul's doctrine came from the OT. Remember this famous quote of not bridling the mouth of the Ox that threshes the wheat. No one contest this.

Beautiful!

Peter recognized Paul's epistles as scriptures. We see Paul himself encouraging the churches to read the epistles he has written to each of them in Colosians. Another one:
That is God's intention was to have the NT church built on the ministry and writing of the apostles and prophets.

They never refer to their writings as scriptures. They were called epistles . Of course paul materials were largely circulated just as rhapsody is been circulated or any gospel material in our day . Can I call rhapsody by pastor chris scripture today? In the bible days the scriptures they had was old testaments .

2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Joagbaje:

They never refer to their writings as scriptures. They were called epistles . Of course paul materials were largely circulated just as rhapsody is been circulated or any gospel material in our day . Can I call rhapsody by pastor chris scripture today? In the bible days the scriptures they had was old testaments .

2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Pleasse don't insult my intelligence. Don't ever in your whole life compare Rhaphsody of Realities with Paul's epistles. Don't ever try it again. Paul started every epistle he wrote with the stamp of his apostolic office; how dare you compare him Chris Oyakhilome!

There is only one thing I want to hear from you law advocates and that is this "Paul was not an inspired author of scriptures" and I will be done with you on this forum. But as long as you do not have the boldiness to say that and you keep going round in circles, with some comparing Paul with Chris, then we will continue to forbear with you.

DrummaBoy:

Pleasse don't insult my intelligence. Don't ever in your whole life compare Rhaphsody of Realities with Paul's epistles. Don't ever try it again. Paul started every epistle he wrote with the stamp of his apostolic office; how dare you compare him Chris Oyakhilome!

There is only one thing I want to hear from you law advocates and that is this "Paul was not an inspired author of scriptures" and I will be done with you on this forum. But as long as you do not have the boldiness to say that and you keep going round in circles, with some comparing Paul with Chris, then we will continue to forbear with you.

Na fight? He made an exmple, not a comparison....na wa for you o!
Point out where he compared them...he asked
[size=16pt] Can I call rhapsody by pastor chris scripture today? [/size] not [size=16pt] I can call rhapsody by pastor chris today's Scripture [/size] and in regards the circulation part he used JUST AS not EXACTLY LIKE... even if he did use 'exactly like' it is because ROR is largely circulated, not because it is a scripture...

you needn't act rabid, with threats and unprovoked aggression, just to prove ur point.. u amaze me in bizarre ways

Joagbaje:
We are not tithing or giving offerings because the law says so.We have gone past the law.

when some of us say the law been abolished, was meant for those that says they tithe according to the law. If you don't belong to that group of tithers, good for you.

Joagbaje:
But the law contain foundationional principles and if anyone miss that he will end up in error. The law is a reference point.

for an unbeliever just getting to know God, the law does provide some insight regarding God's nature/character, but now that you known Christ what do you need the law for?

Joagbaje:
The Holy Spirit doesn't mislead. The issue is how much yieldedness does a christian have .

the question should have been how much "yieldedness" should a true Christian have?

Joagbaje:
Conscience can be hardened.

....and reliance on the law will not soften conscience.

what am i saying? ...... Someone with a hardened conscience will still engage in ungodly acts, with or without knowledge of the law....

....meaning knowledge of the law is equally irrelevant to him/her.

Joagbaje:
If a man sleep with his own daughter , is it a sin? On what ground is it a sin.

for somebody that knows the meaning fornication, what is he doing sleeping with his daughter?

BTW, if the man truly loves his daughter, is he helping her by engaging in such act? What about his wife? Will his wife love him more?

Joagbaje:
Christians do many evil in ignorance. Cheat in business and say that's how this Bussoness is done . It takes the understanding of scripture to know good

nobody needs the law to know cheating is wrong. Even unbelievers knows it's wrong to cheat. For one that cheats, it's his/her nature and it is very unchrist-like. The person is yet to submit him/her self to the leading of the spirit. Knowledge of the law will not do that for you.

Joagbaje:
Why would paul quote Old Testament law and scriptures for new creations? Because of the kindom principles there

A Corinthian church member slept with his mother Inlaw . The Holy Spirit didn't tell him it's wrong. Until paul excommunicate the brother .

1 Corinthians 5:1
It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

On what ground did paul condemn this act which the holyghost didn't .because it's in the Old Testament scripture.

the reference to 1 Corinthians you posted says it all. The act was something even pagans(gentiles) do not tolerate! It had nothing to do with foundation knowledge.

Joagbaje:
Gods principles hasn't changed

for me, saying the law been abolished has nothing to do with change of principles, it is about how you respond to God's commandments.

saying the law been abolished is saying true Christian do by nature the moral requirements in the mosaic law and much more. They've gone past the foundation knowledge stage.

DrummaBoy:

Pleasse don't insult my intelligence. Don't ever in your whole life compare Rhaphsody of Realities with Paul's epistles. Don't ever try it again. Paul started every epistle he wrote with the stamp of his apostolic office; how dare you compare him Chris Oyakhilome!

There is only one thing I want to hear from you law advocates and that is this "Paul was not an inspired author of scriptures" and I will be done with you on this forum. But as long as you do not have the boldiness to say that and you keep going round in circles, with some comparing Paul with Chris, then we will continue to forbear with you.

Bros take it easy na.

ajayikayod:
Sister, is d Law of d Spirit, written in our heart d same as d Law of sin and death? Paul made a very clear distinctn.
D laws of two nations can hav so much in common, but dt doesnt make them d same. One is unto life d other is unto death.
11 Corith 3:6, ... not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
D Law of Moses gave no room for repetitive error, its judgment is sharp and ontime. If dt was wat Abram lived by, he wouldnt hav been d father of Faith after doubting God and fearful many times.
U may need to ask ursef, by which Law did Abraham lived? Wat about Adam, Cain, Abel, Noah etc. of wat Law were they living. Is it d Law of sin and death.
Whn u see d word God's commandments, statutes, laws dont come to fast conclusion dt its d same as given to Moses.
Sister, thr is a Law of God in effect now and its not dt of sin and death (Law of Moses). Bro Paul called it d Law of d Spirit of Life.
If u can ask ursef ds questions as given in 11 Corith 3, it will bcome clearer of wat Law of God we live by.
Is d Law we lived by still minister death?
Is d Law we lived by still minister condemnation?
If ur answer to ds is NO, then thr is a diff Law in effect, if Yes, then.....

When Jesus was speaking in the bible, telling us that he that lust after a woman commits adultery, and he that hates his brother is more or less killing him, what Laws are those? Are they of the Spirit or of the Letter.
When we fulfil the laws Christ gave us with examples I stated above, is the law of the 'do not commit adultery' or 'do not kill' broken or fulfilled?

When Jesus spoke about the weighthier aspects of the Law in Matthew 23:23 that is love, faith, mercy, were these laws of the Spirit or of the letter?
Whatever answer you have to those questions, will make go a long way in understanding my post.
The law of sin and death tried to make a man righteous from outside in which did not work. Christ came to work on the inner man bringing righteousness from the inside out. Jesus words cleanse. That is why it is shocking for purported Christians who claim Christ word's are not directed to them. They just shown they don't know what they believe at all.
Jesus Christ is the foundation, we should take heed what type of material we build on Christ. Every single thing Christ said is Truth!

For your information, there is still a ministration of death even in the NT. (2 Cor. 2:15-16). And the law of sin and death still applies to those who do not walk after the Spirit....Galatians 5:18

Alwaystrue:
Jesus Christ is the foundation........

thank God for this. Joagbaje I hope you are reading

Joagbaje:
Beautiful!
They never refer to their writings as scriptures. They were called epistles . Of course paul materials were largely circulated just as rhapsody is been circulated or any gospel material in our day . Can I call rhapsody by pastor chris scripture today? In the bible days the scriptures they had was old testaments .
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

If after reading such a response one still veers off into unfounded nitpicking there is no hope for such a person.

It is so clear. The apostles used the OT. Paul's epistles were his epistles turned scripture to us. He quoted copiously from the OT in his teachings. How Drummaboy continues to drivel on in incoherent responses boggles me. Joagbaje never said the OT makes a man righteous (justification) he simply said it contains very important principles that are still applicable today and the scriptures give him credence as we can see that the apostles used the OT too. . .alot!

People shouldn't try to throw the baby away with the bath water by rejecting the principles of the OT because they want to reject the tithing aspect of it (which already existed before the law was given)

Alwaystrue:
Every single thing Christ said is Truth!

of course. Even though some of the things he said were actually meant for the jews and not for Christians (e.g. the need to tithe in matthew 23:23), it does not change the fact that every single thing Christ said is truth

Zikkyy:

of course. Even though some of the things he said were actually meant for the jews and not for Christians (e.g. the need to tithe in matthew 23:23), it does not change the fact that every single thing Christ said is truth

all other things Jesus said "was for 'Christians' " but the tithe part was for Jews.... so, Jesus had two audiences he was addressing at the time...even though the apostles were first called Christians in antioch!....fascinating.

Una dey try o

Zikkyy:

of course. Even though some of the things he said were actually meant for the jews and not for Christians (e.g. the need to tithe in matthew 23:23), it does not change the fact that every single thing Christ said is truth

So when Jesus told a nicodemus pharisee to be born again..was that meant for ONLY jewish audience

Gombs:

all other things Jesus said "was for 'Christians' " but the tithe part was for Jews.... so, Jesus had two audiences he was addressing at the time...even though the apostles were first called Christians in antioch!....fascinating.

Una dey try o

That is what i call nairaland pick and choose christianity to satisfy lustful desires.(NPCCSLD).

Gombs:

all other things Jesus said "was for 'Christians' " but the tithe part was for Jews.... so, Jesus had two audiences he was addressing at the time...even though the apostles were first called Christians in antioch!....fascinating.

Una dey try o

one problem you have is to assume you know too much. Do you read me saying "all" other things? I provided an example, that is not to say that was the only thing directed at the jews. Always request for clarification so you don't end up making false accusations.

Alwaystrue:

When Jesus was speaking in the bible, telling us that he that lust after a woman commits adultery, and he that hates his brother is more or less killing him, what Laws are those? Are they of the Spirit or of the Letter.
When we fulfil the laws Christ gave us with examples I stated above, is the law of the 'do not commit adultery' or 'do not kill' broken or fulfilled?

My sister, follow me ask o

When Jesus spoke about the weighthier aspects of the Law in Matthew 23:23 that is love, faith, mercy, were these laws of the Spirit or of the letter?

They won't answer u this...

Whatever answer you have to those questions, will make go a long way in understanding my post.
The law of sin and death tried to make a man righteous from outside in which did not work. Christ came to work on the inner man bringing righteousness from the inside out. Jesus words cleanse. That is why it is shocking for purported Christians who claim Christ word's are not directed to them. They just shown they don't know what they believe at all.

From the above, I was about asking same...zikky said the words of Jesus are completely true, but some of what Jesus said were not directed to him...they forget that Jesus came to bring life, and ALL he ever said pointed to that fact...but these folks choose to chooose deception over the Bible. Just as u said...they don't know what they believe at all

Jesus Christ is the foundation, we should take heed what type of material we build on Christ. Every single thing Christ said is Truth!

For your information, there is still a ministration of death even in the NT. (2 Cor. 2:15-16). And the law of sin and death still applies to those who do not walk after the Spirit....Galatians 5:18

Tells them o....ppls tell them

Bidam: So when Jesus told a nicodemus pharisee to be born again..was that meant for ONLY jewish audience

Good kweshun...zikky, oya answer

Zikkyy:

one problem you have is to assume you know too much. Do you read me saying "all" other things? I provided an example, that is not to say that was the only thing directed at the jews. Always request for clarification so you don't end up making false accusations.

What other thing was directed to the jews? Were there Christians at the time Jesus was still teaching and preaching? If no, how then did u conclude he was referring to Jews (the tithe part) and some other parts to 'Christians'?

mba emeka:

If after reading such a response one still veers off into unfounded nitpicking there is no hope for such a person.

It is so clear. The apostles used the OT. Paul's epistles were his epistles turned scripture to us. He quoted copiously from the OT in his teachings. How Drummaboy continues to drivel on in incoherent responses boggles me. Joagbaje never said the OT makes a man righteous (justification) he simply said it contains very important principles that are still applicable today and the scriptures give him credence as we can see that the apostles used the OT too. . .alot!

People shouldn't try to throw the baby away with the bath water by rejecting the principles of the OT because they want to reject the tithing aspect of it (which already existed before the law was given)

Thank you for this succint analysis my brother..Some people are always on a fault finding mission here..Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of Christ.SMH!!!

Bidam: So when Jesus told a nicodemus pharisee to be born again..was that meant for ONLY jewish audience

why you dey ask? Do you read me saying all communications with pharisees were meant for only jewish audience

Gombs:

What other thing was directed to the jews?

this is not he objective of this thread. It's not in my nature to lose focus.

@Gombs,
Jesus words were not directed to a people because of who they were but because of what they did. Is it not obvious?
Anyone who strains at little things and allows a bigger sin pass is a hypocrite. He does not need the pharisee tag.
Anyone who shows outward piety but his inside is full of all kinds of evil thoughts, intentions, vices, the person has a woe hanging on his head, it is not about being a pharisee.
May the veil be removed from the eyes of those who believe Christ was speaking to a certain sect because of who they were not because of what they did wrong.

Jesus was simply bringing to light the motives of their heart, per scripture, not focusing on their outward show of goodness.


@mbaemeka, the apostles also referred to the words of Jesus as they had records whether verbal or written at that time. Jesus came to bring the word of God to life to get the Spirit of it. The Holy Spirit came to continue for while Jesus was on earth He was the Fulness of The Spirit, Grace and Truth.