MacDaddy01:
[size=15pt]Life is irrelevant to the 2nd law of thermodynamics. [/size]

#Another Ooman [size=15pt]pseudoscientific[/size] claim debunked

wiegraf:
I do, it's terribly foo.lish. For instance, you don't even know what entropy is, that statement is very clearly wrong. Very. Completely. And I'm not going to read those long posts. Sorry, summarize them. But here are some basics, [size=15pt]just because you gain one sort of 'order' that does not mean you don't lose another type of 'order', you always do. That is entropy.[/size]

MacDaddy01: I have never felt more embarrassed on Nairaland in my life (and I've been banned a record 25 times).


Ooman. you are truly an embarrassment! Gaddem.

ooman:

just try to deny you never said life is irrelevant to the second law of thermodynamics? junk!!

MacDaddy01:




Why would I deny that? Is it wrong? Could you simply explain why it is wrong?

ooman:

i have no time for foo.ls

MacDaddy01:



There are at least two fools on your title of the thread.

ooman:

sorry but there no fools but anyone who think that life is irrelevant to the second law of thermodynamics when in fact, life evolved because of the second law of thermodynamics.

MacDaddy01: I actually read part of the paper you gave.

They actually try to interpret evolution from a thermodynamic view- not the other way around.


This is what you simply fail to understand

ooman:

interpret evolution from a thermodynamic view means that interpret life as a result of thermodynamics, which is everything i have said which you fail to grasp.

In my opinion, the audacious attempt to reveal the formal equivalence of the ideas of biological organization and thermodynamic order ...must be judged to have failed. — Peter Medawar (30)

Computer scientist Rolf Landauer wrote an article published in June, 1996, which contains insight that should discourage attempts to physically link the two kinds of entropy. He demonstrates that "there is no unavoidable minimal energy requirement per transmitted bit" (31). Using Boltzmann's constant to tie together thermodynamic entropy and logical entropy is thus shown to be without basis. One may rightly object that the minimal energy requirement per bit of information is unrelated to logical entropy. But this supposed requirement was the keystone of modern arguments connecting the two concepts.


Landauer
It is surprising that mixing entropy and biology still fosters confusion. The relevant concepts from physics pertaining to the second law of thermodynamics are at least 100 years old. The confusion can be eradicated if we distinguish thermodynamic entropy from logical entropy, and admit that Earth's biological system is open to organizing input from outside.

ooman: yet another illustration.

If only the illiterates hiding as atheists will understand!

MacDaddy01:



F4cking fool!


Do you even understand what the diagram is saying? Copy and paste lord!

ooman:
After dialogue with these eediots, i thought its high time i made a new stand on nairaland. I shall remain an atheist on other forums but on NL, i am now a nontheist. Nontheism according to wikipedia is a term that covers a range of both religious[1] and nonreligious[2] attitudes characterized by the absence or rejection of theism or any belief in a personal god or gods. It has become an umbrella term for summarizing various distinct and even mutually exclusive positions united by a naturalist approach.

wiegraf:



First encarta then wikipedia. Nothing wrong with using wikipedia, but most who do so at least have a basic grasp of whatever they're quoting. He doesn't. It's like someone memorizing the multiplication tables but having no understanding whatsoever about how multiplication works.

Note though, I've not actually read his links, my observation above is based on older stuff of his. What's his article about? Is it worth reading?

Les: Two ppl dat says there is no God calling themselves fools, really interesting. Nb...A fool says in his heart, there is no God. But wat is this law of thermodynamics again self even tho i de study physics??

In a Nutshell
A common argument against biological evolution is that the theory contradicts the second law of thermodynamics. The second law says that disorder, or entropy, always increases or stays the same over time. How then can evolution produce more complex life forms over time? The answer is that the second law is only valid in closed systems with no external sources of energy. Since the Earth receives continual energy from the Sun, the second law does not apply.

Defining the System
However, this objection is grounded in a misunderstanding of the second law, which states any isolated system will increase its total entropy over time. An isolated system is defined as one without any outside energy input. Because the universe is an isolated system, the total disorder of the universe is always increasing.
With biological evolution however, the system being considered is not the universe, but the Earth. And the Earth is not an isolated system. This means that an increase in order can occur on Earth as long as there is an energy input — most notably the light of the sun. Therefore, energy input from the sun could give rise to the increase in order on Earth including complex molecules and organisms. At the same time, the sun becomes increasingly disordered as it emits energy to the Earth. Even though order may be increasing on Earth, the total order of the solar system and universe is still decreasing, and the second law is not violated.

Misapplication of The Second Law
To claim that evolution violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics is also grounded in a misunderstanding of where the law applies. Nobody has ever figured out how to apply the second law to living creatures. There is no meaning to the entropy of a frog. The kinds of systems that can be analyzed with the second law are much simpler.
A living organism is not so much a unified whole as it is a collection of subsystems. In the development of life, for example, a major leap occurred when cells mutated in such a way that they clumped together so that multicellular life was possible. A simple mutation allowing one cell to stick to other cells enabled a larger and more complex life form. However, such a transformation does not violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics any more than superglue violates the law when it sticks your fingers to the kitchen counter.