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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. (1754 Views)
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We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 12:29pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
Salam Alaykum, I will like to clear the misconception of most non-muslims who says we muslims worship the Black stone. A composed dialogue between a muslim and a non muslim: Non Muslim: How do you define idol worship? Muslim: In my opinion IDOL WORSHIP IS IDLE WORSHIP! What I mean is that it is useless, meaning less worship. How can you beg anything from something that is carved by yourself? Non-Muslim: What about the stone in Ka'abah? Muslim: We do not worship the stone in the Ka'abah at all. Non-Muslim: Do you not kiss it? Muslim: Kissing something is not worshpping that thing. If you kiss a handkercheif in the memory of a dear one, is that worshipping? Non-Muslim: What then is the significance of the stone in Ka'abah? Muslim: The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) has made the significance known to us. The fact is that the expression of love in memory of a dear one is not worshipping. It happens in everyday life and is part of the human psyche. If one loves and kisses something or someone in the memory of that which one reveres and loves, it is only an expression of that reverance. The significance of the stone in Ka'aba can be explained in similar terms. According to the Prophet (SAW) when the first house of Allah was about to be built, Allah showered stones from the heavens to provide building material for that house. We now understand the meaning of that more fully. It must have been a meteoric shower. Meteors must have rained on that particular area under the command of Allah. The stones that came from heaven were use to build the very first house of worship of Allah. According to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ,the black stone in the Ka'abah is one of the remenants of the stone that were showered from heaven. It is because of the very historic nature of this event and in the memory of that event, we kiss this particular stone as a blessed thing--but we treat it as a stone and there is nothing wrong with that. We do not beg anything of it. Non-Muslim: onemore thing, why do you face it while praying if you claim that you do not worship the stone? Muslim :Allah says "Verily, We have seen the turning of your(Muhammad(saw) face towards heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Haram(at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces in hat direction...."Q2:V144 Allah commands we muslims to face that direction. Who are we not to obey? We worship Allah (SWT) alone and ascribe no partners with Him. Non Muslim: (Silent...walksAway).... |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 12:51pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
barackodam: Salam Alaykum, I will like to clear the misconception of most non-muslims who says we muslims worship the Black stone. You gave the impression that the stones used to build Kaaba were rained down from heaven. What is your source? Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black? Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together. If allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba? |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 1:05pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
cleanvessel: i am not one of those muslims who would dodge questions cos they cant answer it, am gonna tell u point blank, i cant ansa it, buh as it is, i tink i can answer some |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by OJODEL10(m): 1:12pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?. note; moon worship is predominant in arab region, in fact the arab tribe that muhammed belong worship the moon-god, they kiss the kaaba, and moved round it before the birth of muhammed and is father's father as a act of worship and allah is one of the god worship in the kaaba. why will allah continue to be worship in a shrine dedicated to gods? |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 1:13pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
cleanvessel: Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together. as i was told by my Islamic Studies teacher, it is not compulsory for u to kiss the black stone, i havnt been to Mecca before, so i hv no idea hw it seems, buh he said, wen u get there, and u kiss it, u are goin to feel as though u tasted something lime/orange, he then said if u are unable to kiss it, merely Raisin ur hands up facing it and saying Allahu Akbar and then kissin ur hand, u r goin to have the same feeling, so i no not why most ppl want to kiss it, and did i hear u say love? Frm wat i highlightd, u can c that most ppl just want to have the feeling, notin else and peharps cos the Prophet was quoted to have said, The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944 |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 1:17pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
OJODEL10: now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?. note; moon worship is predominant in arab region, in fact the arab tribe that muhammed belong worship the moon-god, they kiss the kaaba, and moved round it before the birth of muhammed and is father's father as a act of worship and allah is one of the god worship in the kaaba. why will allah continue to be worship in a shrine dedicated to gods? may i clear u somethin here, the word "ALLAH" is just but an arabic word meanin God, it was derived from the word "ilah" wch nowadays is mostly used for lesser god, same way in Greek, Jehovah means God |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by OJODEL10(m): 1:25pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
barackodam:I KNOW AL ILAH IS THE SAME AS ALLAH OR INTERPRETED AS ALLAH, WHICH IS THE TITLE OF Sin (THE MOON-GOD). WHICH WAS WORSHIPED IN KAABA BEFORE MUHAMMED HIMSELF. BUT ADDRESS MY QUESTIONS. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 2:14pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
ojodelo10: now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?. i'd rather u reframe d qst, cant seem to get it |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by OJODEL10(m): 2:26pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
barackodam:WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE RELICS IN ISLAM RELIGION WORSHIP. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 2:36pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
OJODEL10: WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE RELICS IN ISLAM RELIGION WORSHIP. The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944 |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 2:49pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
barackodam: You have tried but the questions are four in number. You have answered only one and even the one is not completely answered. You didn't say why the blackstone is treated specially from the other stones as all of them came from heaven. Please go back to your said islamic teacher for the four questions as those who are supposed to help you out in this forum may not be of help as they know the implications. Thank you. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 3:25pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
cleanvessel: wud u mind helpin me list the 4 qsts?? And mind u, i cant ansa all |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 3:44pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
barackodam: Read my first post here you will see them there. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 4:51pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
cleanvessel:i ddnt get the quests, dts y i askd u to list em, i no der r more dan a qst der, buh certainly not up to 4 as u potrayd |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 6:17pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
[quote author=cleanvessel] Here the questions: You gave the impression that the stones used to build Kaaba were rained down from heaven. 1.What is your source? 2. Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black? 3. Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together. 4.If allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba? |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 7:32pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
cleanvessel: 1.What is your source? It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi). cleanvessel: 2. Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black?It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:“When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462) invariably, all wer neva black cleanvessel: 3. Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together. ansad this earlier cleanvessel: 4.If Allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba? When Allah commanded Prophet of Allah to face towards Jerusalem Muslims obeyed Allah and faced towards Jerusalem. Allah did it to test Jews if they will accept Islam and join Muslims, but they did not accept Islam. So Allah damned Jews, dethroned them from being most favored people, and commanded Prophet Mohammad to face back to Mecca as they did before when they were in Mecca. By doing so Allah created new nation of believers in Allah and made Muslims the most favored people of God for over 1000 years. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 7:34pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
I no u wunt b satisfyd, buh i did ansa ur qstions |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by harbiola1(m): 8:26pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
barackodam: I no u wunt b satisfyd, buh i did ansa ur qstionsJazakaAllah Khayran!!! |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by harbiola1(m): 8:56pm On Jan 04, 2014 |
cleanvessel:The stone is a space stone (Meteorite) http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_stone cleanvessel:Have u ever seen other stones that u're talking? Many circumstances attached to the change of its color. You may nt understand this, and that is why i wont waste time on it. cleanvessel:The site of the house is different from the materials used. The black stone is the only remnant of the building 'cos the building has been reconstructed several times using artificial materials. That particular location of the House and the black stone make the sacred Ka'aba. cleanvessel:Whoever told u the red and the yellow parts fooled you. Initially, Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) faces Temple Mount (Jerusalem) for 13y and He had never face Ka'aba before that 13y. Prior to the conquest of Mecca, Allah commanded Prophet Muhammed(PBUH) to turn to the first Bethel on earth which is Ka'aba. Allah promised The Noble Prophet(PBUH) that He would deliver Ka'aba to the Prohet(PBUH) which Allah finally did. The first thing for Muhammed(PBUH) was to fully restore the sanctity of the Ka'aba which He first and foremost did. Allah knows best! 1 Like |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 4:42pm On Jan 05, 2014 |
bro cleanvessel, u ddnt reply again, i just chekd ur profyk now, and i saw u still came onlyn till 4:38pm, do u succumb or u are goin to bring more quests |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 5:00pm On Jan 05, 2014 |
barackodam: You have tried but yet I have other questions based on your answer. You said the black stone was white initially but turned black because of the sin of the people: 1. It shows those who go to touch or kiss it are sinners. For people to be qualified or allowed to touch or kiss such a spiritual stone, they should have been purified. Why did they allow the stone to be polluted by sinners? 2. Having turned black as a result of pollution by sins, why should people still love and kiss a polluted stone as a religious act? I do not agree with you that those who kiss and those who stretch their hand towards it from a distance feel the effect. Anything polluted by sin cannot have any power or effect as far as the true God is concerned. Something is wrong somewhere. 1 Like |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 6:07pm On Jan 05, 2014 |
cleanvessel: for ur information, the stone was sent down by Allah to aid Prophets Ibrahim nd Isma'eel in building the Ka'aba, may i ask u, logically, from his time to the time of Muhammad(S.A.W) do u no how many years that was, it wasnt the Ummah of Muhammad that blackend it, buh the generations before cleanvessel: 2. Having turned black as a result of pollution by sins, why should people still love and kiss a polluted stone as a religious act? u wudnt wanna disobey ur Lord, wud u?? cleanvessel: I do not agree with you that those who kiss and those who stretch their hand towards it from a distance feel the effect. Anything polluted by sin cannot have any power or effect as far as the true God is concerned. Something is wrong somewhere. am gonna gv u a very logical nd straightforward ansa......just ask any muslim wu has gone ther mayb stylishly, u no beta, buh do ask him if he felt it, i cant ansa that cos i hvnt been ther, and morever, it must b done with a clean and pure heart, mind and intention |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 6:59pm On Jan 05, 2014 |
barackodam: I don't believe allah (if is the true God) would still want an object to be so loved after it has been polluted by sin. The God I know would not permit it. That the blackstone was sent to Abraham and Ishmael is another controversial issue. Abraham and even Ishmael never lived in Mecca. At best the settlers in Mecca could be Ishmael grand children. You know it is the bible that has the detailed history of Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar, his mother. Only the bible has records of where they lived and died. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by harbiola1(m): 10:01pm On Jan 05, 2014 |
cleanvessel:Pls what do you know about Allah? cleanvessel:The stone is as sacred as it was in its first time on earth. The change in its color is a mere sign of men's transgression. cleanvessel:I agree with u that it's controversial but which side do you think could be lieing? cleanvessel:Bible dare not say this. Ok!!! Where is ur proof cleanvessel:Did bible record this? cleanvessel:Now lets look into their history as recorded in the bible. 1. Abraham built an Altar, where is it? 2. Ismail lived in the desert of paran, where is it? 3. Hagar saw a well in the desert, where is it? Answer with full bible verses. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 1:06am On Jan 06, 2014 |
cleanvessel: i cant ansa this, and dont capitalize on it cos its my comprehension, go ask people knowledgeable dan i am cleanvessel: That the blackstone was sent to Abraham and Ishmael is another controversial issue. Abraham and even Ishmael never lived in Mecca. At best the settlers in Mecca could be Ishmael grand children. u must b kidding me, how then did Zam Zam water came to b if they never lived ther?? And moreover, u said Bible, did Bible ever mention any soul that lived in the present Arabia? cleanvessel: You know it is the bible that has the detailed history of Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar, his mother. Only the bible has records of where they lived and died. u must b joking, i preserve my qst abt dis for anoda tym, cos it'd b diverging wch i dnt want to |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by gidiMonsta(m): 8:51am On Jan 06, 2014 |
OJODEL10: now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?. note; moon worship is predominant in arab region, in fact the arab tribe that muhammed belong worship the moon-god, they kiss the kaaba, and moved round it before the birth of muhammed and is father's father as a act of worship and allah is one of the god worship in the kaaba. why will allah continue to be worship in a shrine dedicated to gods? The Moon is used to measure months in Hijrah Calendar system used in many muslim countries and the sun used to measure time. Other tan that, the Sun, Moon and Stars have no special significance in Islam, we recognise them as creations of Allah (SWT) and we as Muslims do not worship Allah's creations. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by ypepe: 9:11am On Jan 06, 2014 |
Hello baracodam, I'm not a muslim but one of ur answer drew me to this thread. I lv d way u answer questions. Very maturely. I hope others will emulate from u. Kudos. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by cleanvessel(m): 9:15am On Jan 06, 2014 |
barackodam: Ishmael lived and died in Paran, he died at the age of 137 years (Gen. 21:13-21 & Gen. 25:17-18). Paran was in Istrael, not Mecca. The Istraelites were used to doing things in Paran (Deut. 1:1, I Kings 11:18, Numb. 13:1-3). Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam. I want to ask these questions: 1. Since neither Abraham nor Ishmael lived in Mecca as seen from the above, how could God send blackstone to them to build Kaaba in Mecca? 2. Again, Abraham and Ishmael were long separated by God (Gen. 21:9-12). Since God was responsible for their separation, how could He tell them to build Kaaba in Mecca for Him? 3. Why would God choose to build His house by Ishmael and not Isaac, the promised child who He actually had an everlasting Covenant with? 4. Why cann't you tell me an islamic book that gives a detailed account of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Serah and Hagar and what it says about them? I suspect there is none. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 10:01am On Jan 06, 2014 |
cleanvessel: Ishmael lived and died in Paran, he died at the age of 137 years (Gen. 21:13-21 & Gen. 25:17-18). i hv no idea whr he livd nor died cleanvessel: Paran was in Istrael, not Mecca. The Istraelites were used to doing things in Paran (Deut. 1:1, I Kings 11:18, Numb. 13:1-3). neva said he ddnt live nor die in Paran, let alone say Paran is in Makkah cleanvessel: Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam. had xtianity existed and did ani soul tink it'd eva exist cleanvessel: 1. Since neither Abraham nor Ishmael lived in Mecca as seen from the above, how could God send blackstone to them to build Kaaba in Mecca? Ibrahim left both Hajar and Isma'eel and went to some whr, while he was away, Hajar noticed that Isma'eel was cryin and thirsty, and they wer in a desert, so ther was no whr she'd get water, she then stood up, ran up and down for 7 times if she cud see water(thats the origin of Safa 'n' Marwa that pilgrims do pace up and down 7 times) befor she came, Allah saw her plight then pitied her, Isma'eel that had been cryin was hittin his leg on the ground(typical of kids), and as so doing water gulp outta d ground(origin of Zam Zam), then Hajar gave im water to drink, wen Ibrahim came and saw the miracle that happend, he deemd it fit to build house for his Lord, so both he and Isma'eel tried buh as they wer in a desert, d job was cumbersome for both of them, that is why Allah sent stones to aid them cleanvessel: 2. Again, Abraham and Ishmael were long separated by God (Gen. 21:9-12). Since God was responsible for their separation, how could He tell them to build Kaaba in Mecca for Him? i ansad that in the story above cleanvessel: 3. Why would God choose to build His house by Ishmael and not Isaac, the promised child who He actually had an everlasting Covenant with? next time specify that in the bible, Bible and Qur'an are two diff books, that convenat was biblical convenant, besides in the above story, did u hear of Isiak or his mother? cleanvessel: 4. Why cann't you tell me an islamic book that gives a detailed account of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Serah and Hagar and what it says about them? I suspect there is none. u suspected wrong, go read qur'an tafsir |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by barackodam: 10:06am On Jan 06, 2014 |
cleanvessel: Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam. peharps lemme chip dis in then, they worshiped only 1 God, not the 3-in-1 u do worship now, or if at all u say u dnt worship em, the 3-in-1 u claim, and Islam also has to deal with only 1 Ilah |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by harbiola1(m): 11:53am On Jan 06, 2014 |
cleanvessel:Gen. 21:20-21. "And God was with the lad and he grew and dwelt in the Wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of paran. And his mother took him a wife out of the land of egypt." Ishmaeel got married, lived and died in the desert of Paran. This implies that Arabs are not descendants of Ishmaeel, then where are his children? cleanvessel:But Genesis' stories come before Deut, King, Num. cleanvessel:Note that many Islamic practices predates Islam. What comes to ur mind here? They couldn't have been biazed against Islam, but what about Arabs. cleanvessel:Your conclusion is too early. cleanvessel:Seperation in what sense, father/son relationship or what? cleanvessel:Very interesting question! but lets reserve this. cleanvessel:You'll find their stories on wikipedia. You haven't tell me where Abraham's built Altar and Hagar's well are. |
Re: We (muslims) Worship Allah(swt) Not The black Stone In Ka'aba. by harbiola1(m): 10:57pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
I believe cleanvessel hasn't abandoned the thread? |
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