In His Name The Most High

Part of Hajj Rituals is "Touching and kissing of the Hajar al-Aswad - The Black stone". Several quarters especially the Islamic antagonists have challenged the significant of this act if not polytheism: "worshiping and giving reverence to Stone instead of Allah".

The newly muslim terrorist group called ISIS (apparently the acronyms is the name of an ancient Egyptian goddess - ISIS) in an unverified twitter message claimed part of their missions is to destroy the "Black stone" as pilgrim "worship" it instead of Allah.

It is however established that the holy prophet (saws) whenever he passed by the "Black stone", apparently the starting point of Tawaaf (circumambulation of Kaaba), he (saws) will touch and kiss the stone.

One of his companions, one day, also passed by the "Black stone". He exclaimed "Had I not seen the prophet touched and kissed you, I wouldn't have done the same because you cannot benefit or harm me"

It is obvious this companion doesn't know or understand the symbolism of this Stone. Apart from the ancient story that characterized this stone, it is surely among the 'symbols of God (sha'air LLAH)' talked about in sura al-Maida vs 3:
"O ye who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the symbols of God..."

Islam on the other hands dislike act of worship without knowledge of it. "Know Me before you worship Me" ~Allah says in Hadith Qudsi.

Dr. Ali Shariati writes:
What does this stone symbolize? It symbolizes a hand - a right hand! The 'right hand' of Allah!

In the past, individuals and tribes made contracts with the chiefs of other tribes. This was done to assure their maintenance and survival in the desert. The contract was known as an allegiance. How was it actualized? The individual involved had to extend his right hand to shake and hold the right hand of the other in order that he becomes his ally. Automatically, it was understood that his previous allegiance were cancelled.

At the black stone, the moment of selection, you must choose your path, goal, and future. When joining the people, you must shake hands with Allah who is extending His right hand - therefore taking oath to become Allah's confederate. You will be free from all previous allegiances; no longer will you be an ally of the powers, the hypocrites, the tribal chiefs, the rulers on this earth, the aristocrats of Quraish, the landlords, nor money. You are Free!

"The Hand of Allah is over their hands" ~Qur'an 48 :10

Touch Allah's 'hand'. He is superior to all who have TIED your hands in previous allegiances!

Another Islamic scholar, an Indian Islamic scholar Muhammad Hamidullah summed up the meaning of the Black Stone:
"The Prophet has named the (Black Stone) the 'right hand of God' (yamin-Allah), and for purpose. In fact one poses there one's hand to conclude the pact, and God obtains there our pact of allegiance and submission. In the qur'anic terminology, God is the king, and ...in (his) realm there is a metropolis (Umm al-Qurra) and in the metropolis naturally a palace (Bait-Allah, home of God). If a subject wants to testify to his loyalty, he has to go to the royal palace and conclude personally the pact of allegiance. The right hand of the invisible God must be visible symbolically. And that is the al-Hajar al-Aswad, the Black Stone in the Ka'bah.

Wa Salam alaykum

"And there is nothing like Him" ~Quran says

God has no hand you can ever imagine. This expression is figure of speech: metaphor or simile. Many a time Quran talk to us in a simple language we can easily understand hence the use of hands, face etc for God, while in many other places He balanced, no imaginary description for God.

For example as reported in the Qur'an:"The jews says 'God's hands are TIED up. Be their hands tied up...Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He give and spend (of His bounty) as He pleases..." Quran 5: 67
What does Hand signify here? Generosity.

AlBaqir

It is however established that the holy prophet (saws) whenever he passed by the "Black stone", apparently the starting point of Tawaaf (circumambulation of Kaaba), he (saws) will touch and kiss the stone.

Is Mohammad Allah, did Allah command him to kiss the black stone or pay reference to it? Sometimes, it surprises me that "educated" people will ignore all reason to approve acts not instituted by Allah.

It is obvious this companion doesn't know or understand the symbolism of this Stone. Apart from the ancient story that characterized this stone, it is surely among the 'symbols of God (sha'air LLAH)' talked about in sura al-Maida vs 3:

You are the same one who claim that some Hadiths are weak and some are strong. You pick and chose what you want to believe. Can you show us in the Quran where Allah said that the black stone in the Kabbah was a symbol he asked Muslims to kiss and venerate?

Dr. Ali Shariati writes:
What does this stone symbolize? It symbolizes a hand - a right hand! The 'right hand' of Allah!

This is shirk - You are placing a stone as part of Allah even if it's symbolic. To explain the idolatry of stone worship, you are desperately trying to inject teaching that is not in the Quran or that wasn't instructed by Allah.

At the black stone, the moment of selection, you must choose your path, goal, and future. When joining the people, you must shake hands with Allah who is extending His right hand - therefore taking oath to become Allah's confederate. You will be free from all previous allegiances; no longer will you be an ally of the powers, the hypocrites, the tribal chiefs, the rulers on this earth, the aristocrats of Quraish, the landlords, nor money. You are Free!

The black stone worship was an old Arabian pagan ritual that happened before Mohammad advocated monotheism. Why he decided to keep the practice is a question you should ask yourself. However, Allah never revealed it or taught it in the Quran.

"The Hand of Allah is over their hands" ~Qur'an 48 :10. Touch Allah's 'hand'. He is superior to all who have TIED your hands in previous allegiances!

Irrelevant nonsense

AlBaqir: "And there is nothing like Him" ~Quran says

God has no hand you can ever imagine. This expression is figure of speech: metaphor or simile. Many a time Quran talk to us in a simple language we can easily understand hence the use of hands, face etc for God, while in many other places He balanced, no imaginary description for God.

For example as reported in the Qur'an:"The jews says 'God's hands are TIED up. Be their hands tied up...Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He give and spend (of His bounty) as He pleases..." Quran 5: 67
What does Hand signify here? Generosity.

Irrelevant again - how does this tie into the black stone and the worship of it?

Kissing n touching a stone does not draw u closer to God or move God an inch. That stone was also worshipped by the pre-islamic pagan Arabians including Muhammad's own people. He decided to preserve it for reasons best known to him.

Many Hajj rituals have pagan origin. Up till now, pagans still touch, kiss, n pour on stones n statues.

Unbias: Kissing n touching a stone does not draw u closer to God or move God an inch.

But blood of the young lamb (odo aguntan) sacrificed for "God" does!

^@cloudstar and Unbais,

First you don't believe in Qur'an being word of God.

Second you don't believe in Muhammad being prophet of God or his sayings being inspired by God.

Third you don't even believe in "Allah" being the true God who created all things.

In the 2nd and 3rd ^(La illaha illa Allah Muhammad Rasulullah) lies the foundation and the bedrock of Islam; and that is what characterized one for being Muslim.

So please tell me how any of Islamic rites and rituals can ever seem right to you when you don't believe in any of the above?

Your biggest problem is you simply don't want to treat Islam in its own terms, conditions and history. You adamantly compare with your "standard" always. If it doesn't compatible with your "standard", its incorrect.

I choose not to waste my time replying your allegations because as usual its a sheer waste of time and energy.

Thanks

AlBaqir: ^@cloudstar and Unbais,

First you don't believe in Qur'an being word of God.

Second you don't believe in Muhammad being prophet of God or his sayings being inspired by God.

Third you don't even believe in "Allah" being the true God who created all things.

In the 2nd and 3rd ^(La illaha illa Allah Muhammad Rasulullah) lies the foundation and the bedrock of Islam; and that is what characterized one for being Muslim.

So please tell me how any of Islamic rites and rituals can ever seem right to you when you don't believe in any of the above?

Your biggest problem is you simply don't want to treat Islam in its own terms, conditions and history. You adamantly compare with your "standard" always. If it doesn't compatible with your "standard", its incorrect.

I choose not to waste my time replying your allegations because as usual its a sheer waste of time and energy.

Thanks

Thanks for being factual that the shaada makes one a Muslim. Many Muslims always claim that all Jews prophets who neither knew Muhammad nor say shaada are Muslims.

I hope you know that the ISIS who vowed to destroy the stone are Muslims. Pagans are known to venerate inanimate objects especially stones from time immemorial.

AlBaqir:

But blood of the young lamb (odo aguntan) sacrificed for "God" does!

The Lamb is neither an inanimate object like a stone nor an animal.

Unbias:

The Lamb is neither an inanimate object like a stone nor an animal.

your god seem to enjoy fresh blood of human then. A vampire god!

AlBaqir:

your god seem to enjoy fresh blood of human then. A vampire god!

Do not digress. U can open another thread for that if u like. If this stone represents the hand of Allah, what about boulders ashore Lagos lagoon n the beautifully rounded stones on the streets? How is this black stone different from other stones? ...packaged n sent from heaven?

Again, this does not move God an inch. It is a satanic deception from the pit of hell to touch n kiss a stone n then think u have had contact with God. The same reason why pagans venerate stones.

^Thanks. I will take that as a compliment. I did not digress bro. Its in the same context of "worship". If to you "touching and kissing 'a stone'" is paganistic then 'sacrificing a human being with fresh blood' is bigger paganistic.

On a more serious note. Everything in Islam revolve round "Tawheed - oneness of God in His essence, Lordship etc". Since there is a thin line between monotheism and polytheism, Islam emphasis has always been the understanding of Tawheed first before embarking on any form of worship.

Then now come intention (niyat) which occupy a greater part in any act.

However, in as much as the stone is symbolic and historic, the fact that man understand more and have increase in his awareness when expose with certain physical realities, what is aim to achieve with the act of "touching and kissing of the black stone" by a pilgrim is that once you touch the "hand of God", you have make allegiance to Him never to be part of evil and immorality.

AlBaqir: ^Thanks. I will take that as a compliment. I did not digress bro. Its in the same context of "worship". If to you "touching and kissing 'a stone'" is paganistic then 'sacrificing a human being with fresh blood' is bigger paganistic.

I have made my point and conclusion earlier. The fact that you don't believe in Qur'an or prophethood of Muhammad (saws) defeated your understanding of anything Islamic so why would I enter into a futile dialogue with you? This is not the first time you and I will enter dialogue and no doubt you are not ready to accept anything short of your ideology no matter how clear as daylight it is. Its a waste of time. Just don't kill yourself because of Islam because the way you poke-nose into muslim matters with a mission to prove whatever ideology you are trying to sell.

"It is He who has sent His messenger with guidance and religion of truth to prevail over all religion even to the desist of the unbeliever"

Do Christians sacrifice any human being as a religion obligation? Who sacrificed the human being you r talking about? The blood of the Lamb does not substantiate the idolatory veneration of the black stone. Yes, call it pokenosing because u lack evidence from Allah to authenticate the stone worship. Goodluck to u as u keep touching the hand of Allah (black stone).

AlBaqir

First you don't believe in Qur'an being word of God.

I believe some historical accounts that have been proven i.e. I believe Mohammad taught Monotheism which was a BIG deal in 7th century Arabia at that time. I believe he married a 40 year old woman when he was 25 and a 6 year old girl when he was over 50. Those accounts are historic and can be traced. However, I do not believe in the theological accounts that has no historical basis i.e. Adam was over 60 cubits tall. Also, the Quran gives several different accounts about the creation of the universe.

Second you don't believe in Muhammad being prophet of God or his sayings being inspired by God.

That is because God is consistent. The law of abrogation is not the nature of the true supreme ruler of heavens and earth. Why would God in the Quran make one statement and later change his mind. Can't the Almighty God that is infinite in wisdom and knows all give one command and not change his mind? Was the God in the Quran not sure when he revealed his words through Gabriel to Mohammad in as much that He had to change it? Also, the Quran makes several claims that are incorrect when magnified under the microscope of proven and tested science.

Third you don't even believe in "Allah" being the true God who created all things.

I believe in the one and only true God. The maker or heaven and earth. The Almighty God that made every single one of us. The all powerful, all knowledgeable and all supreme God. If this is the God that muslims believe in when they refer to God - they yes, it is the same God I believe in. However, the characteristics of Allah as described in the Quran and Hadith is different from the Almighty God as described in the Bible. Allah hates Jews and Christians; Allah willfully deceives when he chooses to; Allah prefers Muslims over His other creations. Those attributes of Allah and his character is not consistent with God Almighty.

So please tell me how any of Islamic rites and rituals can ever seem right to you when you don't believe in any of the above?

Because Allah never instructed Muslims to kiss the Kabbah or circle it 7 times. To disarm my argument, please show me in the Quran where Allah instructs Muslims to circle the Kabbah and kiss it?

Your biggest problem is you simply don't want to treat Islam in its own terms, conditions and history. You adamantly compare with your "standard" always. If it doesn't compatible with your "standard", its incorrect.

The standard is the same standard that Islam uses. I haven't used any other standard than Islamic standard. All I asked was - where in the Quran did Allah instruct Muslims to circle the Kabbah 7 times or voluntarily kiss it? I haven't used any other standard to pose this question to you.

I choose not to waste my time replying your allegations because as usual its a sheer waste of time and energy.

That is because you haven't answered the single direct question I have been asking. Where in the Quran did Allah instruct Muslims to circle the Kabbah and kiss it?

^You can see your insincerity? The questions still stand:

1. Do you believe in the Qur'an being the divine word of God you claimed to believe in?

NB: you never found an answer to this rather you skip it and telling stories.

2. Do you believe in Muhammad (saws) as a prophet and messenger of God; and his words and actions being inspired by God?

NB: kindly save the story of he married at 26...blah blah blah. Those two questions deserved to be answered in good faith then you and I can dialogue for answer to your "amazing-grace" question lies in those two questions posed to you which you failed woefully to answer.

Unbias:
...u lack evidence from Allah to authenticate the stone worship.

Like I challenged your compatriot: Do you believe in that "Allah" or His word, Qur'an being divine scripture or His prophet and messenger, Muhammad (saws)?

Our evidence to your questions whatsoever lies in those 3 questions.

Unbias:
Goodluck to u as u keep touching the hand of Allah (black stone).

And I say best of luck to you as your entire belief and prayers revolved round the "sacrificed blood of that young lamb".

[img]http://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1630230159765&id=1356933376&set=a.1630230119764.90807.1356933376.jpg[/img]

AlBaqir

Like I challenged your compatriot: Do you believe in that "Allah" or His word, Qur'an being divine scripture or His prophet and messenger, Muhammad (saws)?

I provided an answer but so far - you are scared to provide an answer to my question

And I say best of luck to you as your entire belief and prayers revolved round the "sacrificed blood of that young lamb".

Irrelevant - trying to run in another direction will not save you. PLEASE TELL US IF ALLAH INSTRUCTED MUSLIMS TO CIRCLE THE KABBAH 7 TIMES AND KISS IT

cloudstar: AlBaqir



I provided an answer but so far - you are scared to provide an answer to my question

I've known you to be a shameless liar and you repeat the same in a cycling direction. You can re-read your reply to my questions and tell me how you answer them. Not every comment/reply to questions hit the bulls eye.

Answer to the so-called question of yours is in the Quran. And the simple question you FAILED to answer is: Do you believe in the Qur'an as a divine book of God?

cloudstar: AlBaqir
Irrelevant - trying to run in another direction will not save you.

Run away? If you open your eye to read and free your reasoning from hatred, then you will realize the following:

1. I ask what is the meaning of "Worship"?

2. How is "worship" in that context (as in 1 however you interpret it) apply to "touching and kissing" a stone?

3. Do you believe in the Qur'an as divine book to be asking for prove in it?

However, my reply of "sacrifice of young Lamb" has nothing to do with you. It is in response to Unbias in the context of "worship". What concern you are highlighted above.

AlBaqir:

I've known you to be a shameless liar and you repeat the same in a cycling direction. You can re-read your reply to my questions and tell me how you answer them. Not every comment/reply to questions hit the bulls eye.

Answer to the so-called question of yours is in the Quran. And the simple question you FAILED to answer is: Do you believe in the Qur'an as a divine book of God?



Run away? If you open your eye to read and free your reasoning from hatred, then you will realize the following:

1. I ask what is the meaning of "Worship"?

2. How is "worship" in that context (as in 1 however you interpret it) apply to "touching and kissing" a stone?

3. Do you believe in the Qur'an as divine book to be asking for prove in it?

However, my reply of "sacrifice of young Lamb" has nothing to do with you. It is in response to Unbias in the context of "worship". What concern you are highlighted above.

I thought you were fasting.

The koran contradicts the bible so much, I personally do not take koran as the word of God. There is no second level check as to what mohammed claimed was revealed to him. Mohammed claimed to have received koranic revelations, but without anybody or prophet to authenticate his claims.

It is easy for me to wake up and tell you that an angel tells me this or that, but it will take another logical or spiritual person to validate my claims. Who and what validated mohammed claims of divine revelations?

true2god: I thought you were fasting.

The koran contradicts the bible so much, I personally do not take koran as the word of God. There is no second level check as to what mohammed claimed was revealed to him. Mohammed claimed to have received koranic revelations, but without anybody or prophet to authenticate his claims.

It is easy for me to wake up and tell you that an angel tells me this or that, but it will take another logical or spiritual person to validate my claims. Who and what validated mohammed claims of divine revelations?

First the question was actually directed to those who want to know where in the 'Quran' does the command of circling the kaaba 7times and kissing and touching the black stone is.

Second, I do not expect a person like you that do not believe in the Quran being revealed by God to ask where as per above-mentioned questions. It doesn't matter or of importance to you.

Third, who 'verify' Quran being word of God as per your challenge?

The fact that Quran contradict the bible, according to you, that makes it not from God. What kind of reasoning is that? 'Bible' itself is enough to contradict itself. How many versions of it do we have today with blatant contradictory passages? Have you compare them and prepare a reasonable explanation justify the differences? Catholic bible has 76 books different from that of the protestants with 66 books. Jehovah witness bible is another sorry ass. The Jewish Torah (alleged 'Old testament' of the christian) is different from the so-called christian 'Old testament'.

Really all these are not in line with this thread so I don't want to further derail

The holy Quran claim itself to be from God. It however challenge the doubters:

"Do they not consider the Quran had it been is from any other apart from God, they would have found discrepancies/Error in it"

The challenge goes further:
"...(tell them to) produce the like of this Quran

Yet in another verse, it says: "bring forth a sura (chapter) or even ten verses of the like...if the whole of mankind and Jinn combine to bring its like, they will not be able to do so"

These are fair acid test as to the claim of any so-called 'book of God'.

cloudstar: AlBaqir
PLEASE TELL US IF ALLAH INSTRUCTED MUSLIMS TO CIRCLE THE KABBAH 7 TIMES AND KISS IT

That is, the first three circumbulation running and the last four walking, all that for God? Monotheism indeed.

TheClown:

That is, the first three circumbulation running and the last four walking, all that for God? Monotheism indeed.

What's your understanding of "monotheism?" How does Islam defined its concept of monotheism?

Everything about Islam is under Attack. Allah, Muhammad, Quran, Salat, Fasting...so attacking the Hajj rites like circumambulation and kissing of Black stone, stoning the devil etc is not a big deal.

As the Jews rejected Jesus (as) being a prophet/'son' of God and the book revealed to him - the Injeel (Gospel), so also the christian rejected Muhammad (saws) being a prophet and messenger of God; and the book revealed to him.

The worst of the worst are those who have no affiliation. Where do you belong man?

AlBaqir:

First the question was actually directed to those who want to know where in the 'Quran' does the command of circling the kaaba 7times and kissing and touching the black stone is.

Second, I do not expect a person like you that do not believe in the Quran being revealed by God to ask where as per above-mentioned questions. It doesn't matter or of importance to you.

Third, who 'verify' Quran being word of God as per your challenge?

The fact that Quran contradict the bible, according to you, that makes it not from God. What kind of reasoning is that? 'Bible' itself is enough to contradict itself. How many versions of it do we have today with blatant contradictory passages? Have you compare them and prepare a reasonable explanation justify the differences? Catholic bible has 76 books different from that of the protestants with 66 books. Jehovah witness bible is another sorry ass. The Jewish Torah (alleged 'Old testament' of the christian) is different from the so-called christian 'Old testament'.

Really all these are not in line with this thread so I don't want to further derail

The holy Quran claim itself to be from God. It however challenge the doubters:

"Do they not consider the Quran had it been is from any other apart from God, they would have found discrepancies/Error in it"

The challenge goes further:
"...(tell them to) produce the like of this Quran

Yet in another verse, it says: "bring forth a sura (chapter) or even ten verses of the like...if the whole of mankind and Jinn combine to bring its like, they will not be able to do so"

These are fair acid test as to the claim of any so-called 'book of God'.

You will agree with me that, aside from mohammed, no other muslim\man, can say for sure that the 'revelations' comes from angel gabriel. Non.

Besides, some al-hadith, revealed satan speaking through mohammed which were later abrogated (i will quote the hadith later). And you will agree, unlike the bible prophets, that mohammed was usually on a state of convulsion whenever the 'revelations' are being given. Are you saying the God that gave old bible prophets changed his style of communication (by making mohammed go on convulsion) before a messgae is revealed.

The mohammed's claim of divine 'revelations' is subject to questionings. The same angel gabriel that told biblical mary that she will conceive and bear a son, to be called THE SON OF GOD (because of his immaculate conception), cannot come back 650 years later to contradict himself by telling mohammed that 'God has no son'.

So you can understand that two different gabriels spoke to mary and mohammed.

On the issue of referring to the black stone as God's right hand.
This is prohibited in Islam as nothing can be compared to the being of Allah. In the principles of Tawheed, we are made to understand that Allah is a supernatural being whose might cannot be imagined or compared to anything. Claiming a mere stone to be the right hand of God is outright Shirk and a great sin.

Did Allah instruct muslims to kiss the stone?
It's is not stated in the Quran to kiss the black stone, but it's seen in the practice of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W to kiss the stone; and as muslims, we are implored to follow the practices of the Prophet. We should note that the Prophet never worshipped the stone and kicked against worshipping of the stone or any other thing besides Allah.
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, claimed that the stone was sent down by Allah Almighty to Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon both of them, to give the precise location of where the Kaaba was to be built by them.  We believe that Prophets Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba.  Western Scientists have confirmed that the black stone, which resides near the Kaaba in the Holy City of Mecca, is an outside METEORITE OBJECT!

     
****   Prophet Muhammad forbade us from worshiping any stone!  ****

The black stone and the Kaaba are not objects of worship in Islam!

A justification for kissing the black stone:

Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said:
"Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it and said, ‘There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.’ ‘Umar added, ‘(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).’" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675)
Narrated Zaid bin Aslam that his father said:
"I saw ‘Umar bin Al-Khattab kissing the Black Stone and he then said, (to it) ‘Had I not seen Allah’s Apostle kissing you, (stone) I WOULD NOT HAVE KISSED YOU.’" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 679)

true2god: You will agree with me that, aside from mohammed, no other muslim\man, can say for sure that the 'revelations' comes from angel gabriel. Non.

How are you sure of that? Have you heard of Ali ibn Abi talib (as)? Muhammad (saws) took him in at tender age of 3, and trained him to become what Quran refer as "self" of Muhammad; and the prophet himself said "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate. Whoever want the city should enter through the gate".

Ali testified he was there and saw Gabriel. Then after the scene, Ali heard another groaning voice. When he asked his master, Muhammad (saws) about that groaning, the prophet said that was satan for he was vexed and disappointed that the Last prophet had been ordained for the guidance of mankind.

After this, the holy prophet (saws) said to Ali, "you see what I see and you hear what I hear; you feel what I feel except that you are not a prophet".

On the other hand, if we assume no other man saw the angel Gabriel, the word and testification of Muhammad (saws)
is enough. Why?

Muhammad's impeccable character is widely known among his people and beyond. He was named "as-Sadiq - the truthful, al-Amin - the trustworthy" etc by the society. NOBODY ever doubted or faulted his words, claim and judgment.

It was on this premise he introduced himself as a prophet of God visited by angel Jubriel. Nobody accused him of lying rather the evil among the chiefs of his society accused him of "madness".

true2god:
Besides, some al-hadith, revealed satan speaking through mohammed which were later abrogated (i will quote the hadith later).

Such hadith are thrown into thrash-can. The fact that 'Books of hadith collections' are not written until about 5centuries after the demise of the prophet (not by prophet himself or any of his companions but) by some fallible men, it is important to scrutinise every single hadith. The best criterion to scrutinise and verify hadith (whether true or false) is Quran. If hadith contradict Quran, such hadith is no doubt forged and instantly thrown away.

In the case of the so-called hadith which inDicate 'satanic revelation', it contradict many verses of the Quran:

"Your companion (Muhammad) does not err or astray

Nor does he speaks of his own accord

It is revelations/inspiration that is sent to him

The lord of Mighty power has taught him"

It also contradict another verse of the holy Qur'an in which satan swear after being cast away from God's kingdom because of Adam:

"I will most surely mislead them (sons of Adam) from your straight path...

Except the most devoted servant among them."

Then God replied Satan:
"As per my devoted servant, you will never have dominance over them..."

true2god:
And you will agree, unlike the bible prophets, that mohammed was usually on a state of convulsion whenever the 'revelations' are being given.

That is fallacy per excellence. This issue has been dealt with here, kindly read:
www.nairaland.com/1449097/misconception-around-first-revelation-illustrous

true2god:
Are you saying the God that gave old bible prophets changed his style of communication (by making mohammed go on convulsion) before a messgae is revealed.

You and I know Bible has been distorted by evil men. There are too much error and inaccuracies and historical blunders written by unknown men, in the bible yet falsely ascribe to God.

The message of ALL the prophets of God are the same.
It is evil among men that distort over time. Therefore those distortions will definitely contradict other words of God.

There was never a single record of Jesus written anything down. People wrote his account of life some of whom were hear-says; there was nobody to verify the so-called "Jesus appearance to Saul" yet he claimed to have seen Jesus and happened to be the author of a large portion in the Bible.

true2god:
The mohammed's claim of divine 'revelations' is subject to questionings. The same angel gabriel that told biblical mary that she will conceive and bear a son, to be called THE SON OF GOD (because of his immaculate conception), cannot come back 650 years later to contradict himself by telling mohammed that 'God has no son'.

So you can understand that two different gabriels spoke to mary and mohammed.

The same narration is also in the Quran except the "...to be called THE SON OF GOD". Instead Quran says "he will be a prophet and among the righteous servants of God".

Since the emphasis here is "SON OF GOD", the question is what do you understand being "Son of God"?

Metaphorically speaking we are all children of God as He is the "Father figure" of all. He created and sustain us. Watch over us and provide our needs. That is the primary function of "Father". However, according to the bible, there many "Sons of God" refer to. Even there were "firstborn of God".

I believe in the language of the Jew, the word "son of God" simply refer to pious men of God. Only a crazy man will insinuate God impregnated mary.

Unfortunately your own personal understanding of being "son of God" is revealed @underlined^

Quran says the fact that Jesus was conceived without a father that doesn't make him a biological son of God. Rather that design happened by the power of God. Quran:

"The similitude of Jesus in the sight of God is like that of Adam who is created from clay then (God) say to it 'be and he was".

Adam was created from an inanimate object - CLAY
Jesus was fashioned out from an animate object - Mary. Eve was fashioned out of Adam. What about the angels? In all those cases, God simply ordered to be and they were. That is the power, knowledge and magnanimity of the most majestic Lord.

"He has power over all things" Quran says.

Unfortunately when you look in the book of Hebrew, there was a figure, a priest of the most High named Melchezedeck said to have no Father or mother; no beginning or end. I say such characteristic does not befit man but God.

Thanks for your time.

Ak4ril: On the issue of referring to the black stone as God's right hand.
This is prohibited in Islam as nothing can be compared to the being of Allah. In the principles of Tawheed, we are made to understand that Allah is a supernatural being whose might cannot be imagined or compared to anything. Claiming a mere stone to be the right hand of God is outright Shirk and a great sin.

While you are partly right in the principle of Tawheed, you are impatience to read the article in all.
"Laysa kamisli shay - there's nothing that can be liken unto Him" Quran says.

"Walam yakun lahu kufwan Ahad" - Nothing is like Him." Quran also confirm.

However, the same Quran talks about: "Face of God, Hand of God" in many verses. It also talks about "God sitting on a thrown or chair" - ar-Rahman alal Ar'sh istawa" etc.

A group called the Atharis (salafis) have translated these to be Haqiqi (real) thereby ruled that Allah has two hands, fingers, face and legs (as reported by Abu huraira in Bukhari and muslim).

Majority of the scholars see this interpretations of the Atharis as error. Thereby interpreted all these characteristic as symbolism that depict a particular function e.g "yadullah fawqa aydihim - Allah's HAND is over their hands", "They (the jews) said 'Allah's HANDs is tied..Nay, His hands are open, it is their hands that are tied..."

In the first verse, the asbab nuzul of the verse says that certain men came to pay allegiance to the prophet (saws) and as per Arabian culture, all of them gathered their hands upon Muhammad's right hand for allegiance. Then the ayah says: "Allah's hand is over their hands". Majority of Ulama says it depict God is aware of their intentions and loyalty.

In the 2nd verse, it depict generousity. In the use of language if we say somebody is open-handed, it means the person is generous.

In short, as there are many "symbols" in the rites of Hajj, each depict something. The Hajarul aswad METAPHORICALLY represent "hand of God" where muslim pay their allegiance hence the essence of 'touching and kissing'.

Similarly when we talk about `Bait Allah` - House of God {as per Masjid haram}. Does it mean Allah has a house which He resides or rest? The house is simply symbolic not haqiqi.

Ak4ril:
Did Allah instruct muslims to kiss the stone?
It's is not stated in the Quran to kiss the black stone, but it's seen in the practice of Prophet Muhammad S.A.W to kiss the stone; and as muslims, we are implored to follow the practices of the Prophet. We should note that the Prophet never worshipped the stone and kicked against worshipping of the stone or any other thing besides Allah.

No objection. You are right. The justification of this is that Quran says: Obey Allah and Obey the messenger". "Whatever the prophet gives you, take it and whatever he forbids you, refrain from it"

Ak4ril:
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, claimed that the stone was sent down by Allah Almighty to Prophet Abraham and his son Ishmael, peace be upon both of them, to give the precise location of where the Kaaba was to be built by them.  We believe that Prophets Abraham and Ishmael built the Kaaba.  

@underlined, If that was the sole reason and purpose of the black stone, why was it not discarded by Nabi Ibrahim (as) or the holy prophet (saws) after the kaaba is place affirmed; and why the rationality of kissing and touching?

Black stone is among the "Sha'irallah (symbols or signs of God)" refer in the glorious Qur'an - sura Maida. The stone is more than just being to give a precise location.

Remember when this stone fell or stolen (according to Islamic history), many tribes were at loggerhead as per which tribe will be honored to place the stone back to its normal place. The holy prophet (saws) settled the matter among them by spreading a large cloth, place the stone at the middle and ask the leader of each tribe to hold each edge of the cloth to carry it. Then he himself placed it at its rightful location.

Why all these reverence? This gatta be more than ordinary stone. It symbolises something.

Ak4ril:
Western Scientists have confirmed that the black stone, which resides near the Kaaba in the Holy City of Mecca, is an outside METEORITE OBJECT!

That's scientist opinion which I respect but not Quran and prophet (saws)'s opinion which I adhere.

Scientist discoveries are not stable and many scientists contradict and refute themselves. But Allah and His prophet (saws) are far from such.

Ak4ril:      
****   Prophet Muhammad forbade us from worshiping any stone!  ****

The black stone and the Kaaba are not objects of worship in Islam!

Definitely! Before any muslim embark on any form of worship, it is Tawhid first. This pave way for Niyyat (intention) and the prophet said: "Actions shall be judge according to intention".

Ak4ril:
A justification for kissing the black stone:

Narrated Zaid bin Aslam from his father who said:
"Umar bin Al-Khattab addressed the Corner (Black Stone) saying, ‘By Allah! I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. Had I not seen the Prophet touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you.’ Then he kissed it and said, ‘There is no reason for us to do Ramal (in Tawaf) except that we wanted to show off before the pagans, and now Allah has destroyed them.’ ‘Umar added, ‘(Nevertheless), the Prophet did that and we do not want to leave it (i.e. Ramal).’" (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 26, Number 675)

Umar was a known pagan, idol-worshipper before he converted to be muslim. He used to worship stones. It is normal in his case to comment that "... I know that you are a stone AND CAN NEITHER BENEFIT NOR HARM. because in his previous belief, the stone he used to worship 'benefit and harm'.

The fact that Muhammad (saws) touched and kissed the stone, it is enough for the sahaba (who apparently have been taught the concept of TAWHEED long before Hajj) to do the same and not making comment. Quran says: "It is not right for a believing men and women to have a say when a matter has been decided by Allah and His prophet"~Sura Ahzab.

However, according to another Sunni source of hadith, "Kanzul Ummal" by Ali ibn Abd al-malik al-Hindi, it is reported that immediately after Umar uttered such statement, "the gate to the city of Muhammad's knowledge", Ali ibn Abi talib replied him thus:

"This stone (hajar Aswad) can indeed benefit and harm...Allah says in Quran that he created human beings from the progeny of adam and made them witness over themselves and asked them, 'Am I not your Creator? 'Upon this, all of them confirmed it. Thus Allah wrote this confirmation. And this stone has a pair of eyes, ears and a tongue and it opened its mouth UPON THE ORDER OF ALLAH, who put that confirmation in it and ordered to witness it to all those worshippers who come for Hajj"

"Nothing is created for Fun" ~Quran conclude.

Wa salam alaykum

true2god: I thought you were fasting.

The koran contradicts the bible so much, I personally do not take koran as the word of God. There is no second level check as to what mohammed claimed was revealed to him. Mohammed claimed to have received koranic revelations, but without anybody or prophet to authenticate his claims.

It is easy for me to wake up and tell you that an angel tells me this or that, but it will take another logical or spiritual person to validate my claims. Who and what validated mohammed claims of divine revelations?

Your username includes a reference to God
So who validated the stories/claims you believe about that God

[quote author=Atranslateprophet (saws)

However, according to another Sunni source of hadith, "Kanzul Ummal" by Ali ibn Abd al-malik al-Hindi, it is reported that immediately after Umar uttered such statement, "the gate to the city of Muhammad's knowledge", Ali ibn Abi talib replied him thus:

"This stone (hajar Aswad) can indeed benefit and harm...Allah says in Quran that he created human beings from the progeny of adam and made them witness over themselves and asked them, 'Am I not your Creator? 'Upon this, all of them confirmed it. Thus Allah wrote this confirmation. And this stone has a pair of eyes, ears and a tongue and it opened its mouth UPON THE ORDER OF ALLAH, who put that confirmation in it and ordered to witness it to all those worshippers who come for Hajj"

"Nothing is created for Fun" ~Quran conclude.

Wa salam alaykum
[/quote]

This ur "hadith " needs a thorough verification and authentication. Source pls

tosin2013:

This ur "hadith " needs a thorough verification and authentication. Source pls

I implore Al baqr to pls quote the source of the hadith he quoted.

AlBaqir

I've known you to be a shameless liar and you repeat the same in a cycling direction. You can re-read your reply to my questions and tell me how you answer them. Not every comment/reply to questions hit the bulls eye. Answer to the so-called question of yours is in the Quran. And the simple question you FAILED to answer is: Do you believe in the Qur'an as a divine book of God?

Are you blind or stupid? Let me repeat myself:

I believe some historical accounts that have been proven i.e. I believe Mohammad taught Monotheism which was a BIG deal in 7th century Arabia at that time. I believe he married a 40 year old woman when he was 25 and a 6 year old girl when he was over 50. Those accounts are historic and can be traced. However, I do not believe in the theological accounts that has no historical basis i.e. Adam was over 60 cubits tall. Also, the Quran gives several different accounts about the creation of the universe.

Run away? If you open your eye to read and free your reasoning from hatred, then you will realize the following:

1. I ask what is the meaning of "Worship"?

2. How is "worship" in that context (as in 1 however you interpret it) apply to "touching and kissing" a stone?

3. Do you believe in the Qur'an as divine book to be asking for prove in it?

However, my reply of "sacrifice of young Lamb" has nothing to do with you. It is in response to Unbias in the context of "worship". What concern you are highlighted above.

You and I have defined what worship is - all I have asked you is this - WHERE IN THE QURAN DID ALLAH INSTRUCT MUSLIMS TO KISS THE KABBAH AND CIRCLE AROUND IT?