take a look at a Web Base Software Programme Live Help Chat Programm done using PHP/MySQL http://livehelp.stardevelop.com/features.htm Well WEB BASED SOFTWARE is the way FORWARD

oga, na true. web applications rule as long as you have the bandwidh to ignore the "little" nuances,

but guess what, down here in naija, you can pull up a Reuters terminal and look like an NIIT lecturer in front of a real CISCO router, it simply don't cut it with users and with Mgt, had to re-work to a desktop version of a web app simply because of bandwidth issues (thanks to our ISPs lying about "bandwidth on demand, dedicated-shared bandwidth,committed information rate and all the hogwash)

so in yankee, yes. hurrah for the thin client, down here, Fat is king.

methinks the environment matters, no use giving a pilot an F16 fighter at the bottom of the atlantic ocean

[FONT=COURIER][SIZE=10PT]
lagerwhenindoubt, I don't understand this your bandwidth issues with web application. Are we talking of private application dedicated to an organization or are we talking of public web application? Either one, can someone then tell us any public desktop application that mirrors the same issue with web apps?

Generally desktop apps are FAT client because of it nature of development, but these days you can get a very really thin client desktop apps.

But when a desktop begins to lose it ability of becoming FAT, it surrenders some of its routine to the server forming client/server architecture, which is what web apps are client/server. But web apps has gone even further i.e. two-tier, three-tier and n-tier architecture by using MVC.

lagerwhenindoubt, I don't see any correlation here between web app and bandwidth. Web apps could be deployed intranetly, extranetly, internetly and RCP/RMI. Either one the only ones that could cause bandwidth problem is the internet. It all depend on the location of the server. Mostly web apps are very thin client, so the processing is done at the powerful back end architecture. What is the size of HTTP/HTTPS header packets? If you ask me not enough to cause your bandwidth issues.

Remember that the backend architecture for n-tier is the best, every server on a single host i.e. database server on it host machine, web server on it host machine, application server on its host machine, email server on its own, authentication server on it own, etc.

When you send request to a webserver, all you are asking that host machine is a web page. If the content of the web page is that of a dynamic nature, it processes it and respond back with a result. Remember that HTTP is stateless protocol so the client is really not doing any job just sending request to a server.

Even if you are using a dial-up, the only time it makes difference is if the response carries a multimedia type i.e. uncompressed picture, flash, image and audio, even that MS has optimize it OS to store recent visited site, as in your history. So when you visit a web site MS store all the multimedia to make it easy for you to browse at a later time.

People should choose web app to desktop.  Desktop is good for games calculators and other really stand alone apps. Remember to code thread in any language is extremely complex. Web servers has got proven algorithm for handling multiple request in excess of 1000 at one second.

[/font][/size]

he didn't really understand

hmmmn. i use a web app say one that pulls up quotes and charts froma server
f'course the server does all the processing and serves me data, it is still a lot slower than when a friend in the US connects to the same server, that is my bandwidth issue, .

u're right, i was too tired to read through, just scanned a paragraph that caught my attention and made a comment.

Go get a nap

assuming they pay Microsoft the real money for using her OS.

That is a scandalous assumption that is far from reality.  Therefore your argument is shaky!

You would still have people using internet explorer ver 3.1 because they do not have money to buy a newer license for more that two PC, (CAL Client Access License)

Nigerians use the latest versions of MS Windows, MS Word (From MS Office XP), and Coreldraw.  These are not web-based, are they.  So their computers are powerful enough to run most Standalone software solutions. 

What they do not have is broadband for demanding web applications!

Seun,

Not all web applications need broadband - only those which request information from a server over the internet.

You can have a javascript web application, or one which accesses information from a local or network web server.



All,

I think there's some confusion between fat/thin clients and client-server/standalone applications.

My understanding is:

The fatness or thinness of the client depends on how much computation occurs on the client side. The fatter the client, the more computation occurs there.

Web applications are usually thin client (since they just usually display html), but these days the browser acts as a host for all sorts of strange plugins which run all manner of weird files, thus increasing the amount of computation that can be done on the client (and making it 'fatter').


Client-server applications are those which are divided into to two distinct parts - a client which requests information, and a server which delivers it. In contrast, a standalone application doesn't need to connect to a server for information - it has everything it needs. Some web applications are client server, but not all - see my response to Seun.

I admit that I'm not quite sure how to classify a client/server application which has the client and the server on the same computer. Maybe the term 'standalone' itself is a bit confusing. 'Desktop' is perhaps less ambiguous - that refers to applications that do not make any sort of remote call, irrespective of the location of the remote computer they are calling.

A web-based application should be one that runs over the world wide web, which is built on the Internet.

PHP/MySQL applications running locally should be seen as applications using the web browser as a GUI. Same thing applies to javascript applications. Intranet apps in PHP are client-server applications using a browser as GUI.

Yes, the modern browser is a pretty good GUI if that's the question being asked, but it's not the most powerful. If I can reduce development time by using a more rudimentary but capable GUI, why not? But not for word processing!

@ Seun

Thank you o.

A web-based application should be one that runs over the world wide web, which is built on the Internet.

I'm more aligned to Sbucareer's definition, which is that a web application is one which connects to a webserver. Even then, I'm wrong to include apps that run off javascript and Flash plugins as web apps - I was confusing web applications with browser based applications.

Hey, guys, Maybe some of you have heard about things like diskless remote boot linux(DRBL) and Linux Terminal Server(LTS)
With them you can have thin clients regardless of wether your apps are web based or standalone.
You workstation don't even need a harddisk. You just boot into a server over a network.
But as you might have guessed, they are ideal within intranets only.

Web based application is the way to go. Check out Saleforce.com and see what they are doing. For a country like our's to survive we need web based application. All we need to care about is a reliable ISP, instead of thinking about server security, backup, disaster recovery etc.

well if we really wanna have Web Based software, ISP shouldn't be the major problem.

Alright, Alright, I think all these views are biased towards what we prefer (web based or standalone) but the truth is that web based apps have their place in the IT universe and will NEVER replace standalone apps.

You see the web based apps need standalone apps to run.
For example before you run a typical web based app, you need a browser which is a standalone app.
Your PHP interpreter is stand alone
Your web server is stand alone
Your application server is stand alone
Your compilers are stand alone.
The list goes on and on

The truth is that web based apps cannot exist without stand alone apps.

I think all through the argument we have been thinking mostly in terms of enterprise applications.
I still cannot imagine how one can create say a video editing software or a compiler as a web based application.

By the way, web based technologies come and go very fast. Remember Java applets and ASP ?

So guys let's accept it, web based apps are cool but they can not replace standalone apps.

web based or standalone;

it all depends on design and capturing your requirements.

If your software runs locally and uses a browser, it makes more sense to call it 'browser-based'. I'm determined to make my next application browser-based, but it could be standalone (not web based).

you people wth this your IT stuffs. talkn about web based,stand alone or sit all shit of a thing.
atleast somebody need to tell us what these IT terminologies are all about,for the sake of those that
are behind technology.

yea yea yea obviously web apps are predominant now across all industries. Well what happened when there was an earthquake in asia recently, with underwater cables breaking and taking weeks to repair. Connections to and from china and other asian countries were extremely limited.

If you are entirely dependent on web based application. well it is always adviceable to have a backup plans when something like this happens, datacenter fires, robbery, natural disasters etc that can be damaging to a business. well non-web based applications also have their faults but have less factors to take into consideration before deployment

everything is risk.

I wish the IT industry can be somewhat stable. everyday new things come out it is crazy. though great for development it is really overwhelming. I spend more time looking for the best implementations possible and less time with design.

Guys!
Lets get our nomenclature straight ,

A stand-alone app is one that literally "Stands on it own", meaning no networking, no communications whatsoever with any other system.
IT would typically have a local DB, application executables etc. (All running on a single machine)
It is also essentially a single user system, it can be multi-threaded can have only one multi-threaded client.


A fat client is looks like a stand-alone but it connects to a server sitting somewhere else, meaning, bulk of application logic, persistence info etc. resides somewhere else on the network. The main advantage of fat clients is the rich user experience. But like Some guys have noted its hellious to maintain across large enterprises(though not impossible)

There's also something in between stand-alones and fat clients called Smart Clients.
It behaves like a fat client when a network connection is available , when the connection breaks or something ,
it behaves like a standalone.
This means it not only has to have reasonable intelligence, but it must retain data i.e store/replicate data locally ,

Some of issues to look out for when deciding on application architecture are :
1) Would u(the application deployer) have access to the users machine to install stuff ? (this is not always possible due to geographic location, service-consumer relationship etc.)
2) How often would application logic (Business requirements) change ? ( in todays world, Any viably running business always has it business requirements changing at the speed of , . Imagine if you have to go round installing stuff every-time the marketing guys found a new business initiative)
3)Skills , Are there developers and architects at AFFORDABLE prices to wield technologies like smart clients
4)Hardware infrastructure
5)Security (Standalone is the safest, Sitting at home behind locked doors is also safe ,but how come Lagos roads are always filled with traffic ? To do any thing reasonably worthwhile security must be compromised! )

I guess my personal bias, is shown in some of my comments ,

Well, i've learnt a lot from ya'll guys, but i think choice of web-based application or desktop-application depends on the requirement specification given by ur client. You get to understand the basics he wants (though not all clients know what they want, but u analyse it and develop what the SDLC will be). I don't condemn either. I've participated in intranets applications dat use internet as a connectivity medium, just like we all do net meetings, online conferencing e.t.c. and the only factor still remains how well my bandwith is. When u say intranet applications, it's not necessarily a desktop application (i mean form-based), it could be a browser-based app. The only inteface dat i know is getting outfashioned is form-based apps, i can only leave it for high-end applets e.g ones used in aero-space operations, embedded sytems interfacing e.t.c, So in my own opinion, it all depends on the requirements specifications.

even in GIS/Mapping - try www.ceaser-web.com

I have a question: if you have broadband, is the speed of Internet access as fast as accessing a LAN?
Because as a modem user, I have found myself assuming that web access is slow, which makes me want to make my browser-based program downloadable, but that won't be necessary if broadband is as fast as LAN access.

Oga Seun

Dat is a concommitant fact.

Seun:

I have a question: if you have broadband, is the speed of Internet access as fast as accessing a LAN?
Because as a modem user, I have found myself assuming that web access is slow, which makes me want to make my browser-based program downloadable, but that won't be necessary if broadband is as fast as LAN access.

@Seun: what we know here as broadband is not (really) broadband. The best you can get from any ISP in Nigeria, as a home/office user, is 512Kbps. That will never compare with a 10/100Mbps LAN connection, or the internet connection in places like Schlum (God knows who connects them - i've achieved up to 15Mbps on the internet there). In more developed countries, it is common to find home users with DSL connections of 1Mbps and more. I think it depends on where the person is (geographically) and how expensive broadband is in that location. I suggest you cater to the two categories of internet users.

Seun:

I have a question: if you have broadband, is the speed of Internet access as fast as accessing a LAN?
Because as a modem user, I have found myself assuming that web access is slow, which makes me want to make my browser-based program downloadable, but that won't be necessary if broadband is as fast as LAN access.

Broadband is not as fast as access on a LAN (except for that Swedish grandmother who has a 40Gb/s connection!). In the UK, I believe one can get speeds of up to 8Mbps (don't know anyone who actually achieves 8Mbps though). On average, I get 1Mbps at home. On my office network, I get 100Mbps. I used to use dialup to access a web application on the office network and it was very slow. I now use broadband to connect to the same application and it does not take very long to load.

With regards to web access, I don't really notice much difference except when I'm downloading or uploading files.

Hmm. Blkraven, Does it feel like a LAN when you're doing light browsing e.g. searching google, checking gmail?

Great essay on the advantages of server-based software: http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html