manmustwac:

@post
There is no problem with the Atheist. Its just that the Atheist believes in the theory of evolution which in this modern world is a far more logical explanation to the origins of mankind and all the animal species. The problem with the Christiann is that ultimately their religion is just based on their strong belief and strong faith

The book that they believe in called the bible dose not explain the origins of dinosaurs or the apeman simply because they didn't have the technology then that we have now to discover them. Whenever you try to make these simple points known to any Christian they will just start quoting from their book and cling on rigidly to their believe There is no amount of quoting from their bible that can explain away the dinosaurs or the apeman. But then thers nothing i can say that will change the mind of the Christian and like wise there is nothing they can say that will change the mind of th Atheist. So i let me just say to the post. You stick to your beliefs and you let me stick to mine.

well said, shikenan magana ta mutu.

mazaje:

I have already told you what i consider to be god. god is god? are you kidding me? allah is god too, he has his own creation story which is very different from that of the god of the bible. so why should allah and his creation story be discarded? you still have'nt proven to me that allah is not god. and god is not god because there are so many of them. all claiming to be the one true god. they can't all be right and as far as i know they all don't exist. god is a personal experience, moslems, christains,hindus,buddist , shinto etc all have personal experience about their gods and all their experiences are as real as it can be. who is right and who is wrong? why is jehova better than allah? and why should buddah be discarded?

God is God. It is that simple. You should not add a prefix before God since once you do that, the discussion deviates from the existence of God, the creator of all the worlds to the concepts of God. God and the concepts of God are not one and the same thing. Thus bringing prefixes like islamic, biblical, hindu etc deviates from the discussion. Thus if you have any evidence that God, the creator of all the worlds do not exist, then bring them.

mazaje:

well said, shikenan magana ta mutu.

m_nwankwo:

God is God. It is that simple. You should not add a prefix before God since once you do that, the discussion deviates from the existence of God, the creator of all the worlds to the concepts of God. God and the concepts of God are not one and the same thing. Thus bringing prefixes like islamic, biblical, hindu etc deviates from the discussion. Thus if you have any evidence that God, the creator of all the worlds do not exist, then bring them.

What physical proof do u have to prove that He dose exist? Someone that you have never seen before in the flesh? That u will only see after you die? Someone that didn't come down from Heaven to stop 9/11. You prove his physical existance to me?

manmustwac:

What physical proof do u have to prove that He dose exist? Someone that you have never seen before in the flesh? That u will only see after you die? Someone that didn't come down from Heaven to stop 9/11. You prove his physical existance to me?

Why will you require physical evidence for the existence of God? A physical evidence suffices for things or events that are physical. God is not physical. The faculty for percieving the activities or the works of God lies in your spirit. Even if God comes down from heaven, those who do not want to believe in his existence will trump up new excuses. I ask again, what eviedence do atheists have for their belief in the non-existence of God.

Nna men this tori is becoming boring on nairaland oh, shio.
But by the way oh christians how smart do you think is quoting from the bible to explain to someone who doesn't believe in it, Just like a muslim quoting various passages of their holy book and telling you that you are not going to make paradise, if you can just catch how you will feel then surely you know how someone else feels when most of you who do not even know the origins of the book and the context in which they were written. Abi any of una study greek and hebrew wey dem take first write the book.
Chei the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few.
Can you christians even tell us how we came about because so far you guys are lagging in that department imagine noah trying to put a Trex in the ark assuming they mistakenly forgot to mention it.
How do you even believe self?

m_nwankwo:

Why will you require physical evidence for the existence of God?

Well the obvious answer is because i don't believe there is a God

m_nwankwo:

A physical evidence suffices for things or events that are physical.

Yes of course i agree with u there. For example am typing in my P C so thats evidence that my P C is 4 real

m_nwankwo:

God is not physical.

because God dose not exist. He exists only in your imagination

m_nwankwo:

The faculty for percieving the activities or the works of God lies in your spirit.

How can that be when am not a spiritual person. Am an atheist.

m_nwankwo:

Even if God comes down from heaven, those who do not want to believe in his existence will trump up new excuses.

Now your being really funny  If God came down from Heaven NOW! and i see Him in the physical flesh. Trust me i won't come up with any excuses. Seeing is believing

m_nwankwo:

I ask again, what eviedence do atheists have for their belief in the non-existence of God.

Well like u said God is not physical that He's spiritual so how can u explain to an Atheist like me that something that isn't physical exists?

Apart from that there is nothing about Neandathal man the Dinosaurs the Mammoths or any of these pre-historic animals in your book called the bible. WHY? Because man who wrote the bible didn't know about their existance at the time. And there is physical evidence {not spiritual evidence} to prove that these animals actually existed. Just go to any history museum ok

@Manmustwac

Well the obvious answer is because i don't believe there is a God

That is your choice and you are entitled to it.

because God dose not exist. He exists only in your imagination

How do you know that God does not exist? How do you know God exists in my imagination? What is imagination? Have you seen, heard, torched imagination?

How can that be when am not a spiritual person. Am an atheist

Again your belief is your choice and you are entitled to it.

Now your being really funny   If God came down from Heaven NOW! and i see Him in the physical flesh. Trust me i won't come up with any excuses. Seeing is believing

You will still doubt. You will have excuses for it including hallucination, hypnosis, suggestion, autosuggestion. Have you ever physically seen your thoughts and yet you believe your brain produces thoughts.

Well like u said God is not physical that He's spiritual so how can u explain to an Atheist like me that something that isn't physical exists?

Apart from that there is nothing about Neandathal man the Dinosaurs the Mammoths or any of these pre-historic animals in your book called the bible. WHY? Because man who wrote the bible didn't know about their existance at the time. And there is physical evidence {not spiritual evidence} to prove that these animals actually existed. Just go to any history museum ok

I do not need to explain to an atheist spiritual things. The power of God is not explained but experienced. I do not draw from the bible. I draw from the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". Neandathal man, Dinosaurs, Mammoths and prehistoric events are indelibly written in the laws of God and it could be read by those whose spirits are alive. There is nothing enigmatic about prehistoric times. They can be easily descriped. Best wishes.

The prob is that, some of them aint even atheist, they just suffering from Attention deficiency syndrom, cos i cant understand how some pple will wanna blv that they evolve from apes and all that stuff, cos you cldnt blv in his creation if you dont blv in him.

>IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD, IT’S JUST YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS MUST YOU MAKE A SONG OUT OF IT.YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE IN WHAT EVER YOU WANT.
ONE THING I DON’T GET IS WHY GOD IS THE CENTRE POINT OF DISCUSSION OF ALL ATHEIST. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WHY NOT LEAVE GOD ALONE AND TALK SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE,

ASSHOLES

phillip001:

>IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD, IT’S JUST YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS MUST YOU MAKE A SONG OUT OF IT.YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE IN WHAT EVER YOU WANT.
ONE THING I DON’T GET IS WHY GOD IS THE CENTRE POINT OF DISCUSSION OF ALL ATHEIST. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WHY NOT LEAVE GOD ALONE AND TALK SOMETHING ELSE PLEASE,

ASSHOLES

Na so the thing pain you reach? god's footsoldier carry explosives come detonate am for where we dey now.

Mazaje,
sorry for the abrupt departure from our convo, I left on vacation n just got back . But I see others have picked up the slack and enagaged (though meeting little success) with you .
I hear all that you say and all your questions, but what I'm curious about is (and I hope you will indulge my curiosity) what made you leave christianity since you say your life was once centered around the bible?

Chrisbenogor:

Nna men this tori is becoming boring on nairaland oh, shio.
But by the way oh christians how smart do you think is quoting from the bible to explain to someone who doesn't believe in it,

How smart is it to quote that same bible you dont believe in to buttress a point you only poorly understand?

JeSoul:

Mazaje,
sorry for the abrupt departure from our convo, I left on vacation n just got back . But I see others have picked up the slack and enagaged (though meeting little success) with you .
I hear all that you say and all your questions, but what I'm curious about is (and I hope you will indulge my curiosity) what made you leave christianity since you say your life was once centered around the bible?

I was raised a muslim, i later converted to christianity back when i was in naija came to europe and realised that both religions in fact all religions were just meant to keep people's mind and soul intact. nothing more nothing less. most of the people here in europe are athiest and i was really suprised when i first came and discovered, the people here don't believe in any god or gods but as far as i am concerned they are a 100 times better and morally upright than africans who know nothing but god and religion, a little personal study on the history of christianity and islam(which were the only religions i knew) and religion anthropology which i did in rome made me to question my beliefs and when i did i realised that they were all man made, people use god and religion to help them answer the difficult questions in life and the pesky questions of what happens to a man when he dies, the origin of life etc. a good history of the bible and the quran made me to believe that all religions were really created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few.

mazaje:

I was raised a muslim, i later converted to christianity back when i was in naija came to europe and realised that both religions in fact all religions were just meant to keep people's mind and soul intact. nothing more nothing less. most of the people here in europe are athiest and i was really suprised when i first came and discovered, the people here don't believe in any god or gods but as far as i am concerned they are a 100 times better and morally upright than africans who know nothing but god and religion, a little personal study on the history of christianity and islam(which were the only religions i knew) and religion anthropology which i did in rome made me to question my beliefs and when i did i realised that they were all man made, people use god and religion to help them answer the difficult questions in life and the pesky questions of what happens to a man when he dies, the origin of life etc. a good history of the bible and the quran made me to believe that all religions were really created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few.

  Thanks for sharing that. You know the bible says somewhere I don't recall now that if you leave christianity it basically means you were never really part of it.

  I know what you mean about this side of the globe being more inclined towards atheism. But the fact that they're more advanced make them right? not necesarily my dear. Truth be told Africa is extremely religious but yet we are held hostage to mountains of problems, why hasn't our spirituality led to our development? Maybe its because a lot of people only profess to know and follow God but deep inside they have not changed. They still hold on to their hollow and deceptive and greedy tendencies.
  This does not automatically negate the authenticity of christianity, just because many of its so-called followers are really liars and do not genuinely follow the way of God, does not mean that God doesn't exist.

  I say this because I've taken many courses n lectures that have taught against God and religion but instead of turning me away from God, they have only served to further solidify my belief that all this anti-God sentiment is really only a way of 'searing' off that nagging little voice in their hearts and in their heads about the truth that is God.

  I know there are many many questions about the world and the bible that remain unanswered, and might prob never be answered until this world passes away. But the peace and assurance that God offers through Christ is that we don't need to know the answers to everything, but instead to trust that God is just and faithful and always does what is best for those who love and hope in Him.

  Thanks for sharing that. You know the bible says somewhere I don't recall now that if you leave christianity it basically means you were never really part of it.

really. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  Truth be told Africa is extremely religious but yet we are held hostage to mountains of problems, why hasn't our spirituality led to our development? Maybe its because a lot of people only profess to know and follow God but deep inside they have not changed. They still hold on to their hollow and deceptive and greedy tendencies

You need to come and see what is going on in nigeria at the moment(i am presently in nigeria), Nigeria is dead because of religion and faith any thing that man needs and wants to do must be done by man himself not by prayer or faith, they never change anything. how can people be so religious and yet so morally bankrupt? how can people be so dependent on god and yet be so poor? it's completely unbelieveable, i don't know but if there is a god then he really does'nt answer prayers because if he does nigeria will never remain as it is, people spend hours praying for the country and its leaders and nothing happens while in europe people just tackle their problems head on with out believing and blaming god or the devil for what ever happens to them be it good or bad. people just take responsibility for their actions and they are by FAR better for it in every aspect be it morally, socially, traditionally etc.

This does not automatically negate the authenticity of christianity, just because many of its so-called followers are really liars and do not genuinely follow the way of God, does not mean that God doesn't exist.

 

which is the true christianity? i told you before that my pastor once told me that catholics(followers of mary) and all the white garment wearing christains will end up in hell, he quoted so many bible passage to support his claims, mormons believe they are the chosen ones, the jehova witness believe they are the true christains, deeper life believe that austerity is the only way of life that will take you to heaven, TD jakes, paula white, creflo dollar, olseen, david oyedepo, chris oyakilome etc all believe in prosperity gospel and faith, baptist, anglican, othordox etc( there was a time i visited an orthodox church in greece and ran way for my life becaue i could not understand the madness that was going on in there) so may christains are condeming and castigating the prosperity gospel preachers with valid evidence from the bible,  without mentioning that the prosperity gospel preachers get their inspirations from the bible too. the bible and the koran as i have come to understand supports everthing both good and evil. there are over 30, 000 sects in christianity most of them believeing that there sect is the only true sect and most fighting and castigating each other, why is that so? the only time christains come together is when people say that there is no god or when people question the bible and the divinity of jesus.

this divisions have been in existance since the beggining of christianity, a good study of the history of the bible will show you how most of these divisions came about. do you know that there is a book called the  book of mary that was not included in the bible which clearly stated and supported the divinity of mary? i believe that that is where the catholics got their inspiration from, there are so many books that were not included in the bible and that has a lot to do with the bible and the religion as a man made ideology. there are so many versions of the bible each with a narrative to conform to the different ideas that each different sect holds. there is a documentary tittled banned from the bible part 1 and 2 i will like you to watch it, you will understand what i am talking about if you watch it. i later came to understand the islam was formed purely on the christain faith after watching the documentary , islam was an idea that was stolen from the jewish and christain religion.

  I say this because I've taken many courses n lectures that have taught against God and religion but instead of turning me away from God, they have only served to further solidify my belief that all this anti-God sentiment is really only a way of 'searing' off that nagging little voice in their hearts and in their heads about the truth that is God.

 

if your faith makes you a better person then please hold tightly unto it, i have never advised any body to leave his/her faith infact i don't care, i live in a godless society and the people there are a 100 times BETTER than all the god(jesus and mohammed) foot soldiers that we have here in nigeria who are full of evil. i don't believe in god and i believe i am better for it. i don't fear and posses any guilt anymore(i live freely), i don't blame non existent and imaginary beings like satan, angels or god for my successes and failures in life, i take charge and hold myself responsible for everything i do weather good or evil and i am better for it. when i offend people i ask their forgiveness and i don't pray to any imaginary god to forgive me.

   I know there are many many questions about the world and the bible that remain unanswered, and might prob never be answered until this world passes away. But the peace and assurance that God offers through Christ is that we don't need to know the answers to everything, but instead to trust that God is just and faithful and always does what is best for those who love and hope in Him.

I don't believe that god will give me a brain and not allow me to use it to reason. the bible is a good book,( the koran is a good book too) it all depends on how you intepert them(they are both very ambigious), they have both been used to do good and evil and they support both good and evil deeds, the nature and presentation of god by this books(bible and koran) makes the existance of such a being hard to believe if only you will open you eyes and look at things objectively, let me give you an example the bible states that jesus is the only way to god right? all you need to do as a christain is believe in his divinity, resurrection and his sonship, live according to his principles and you will make heaven to be with him for enternity. ok what about some one living in sri lanka that has never heard about jesus? i have meet about 10 of such people in thailand who do not even know that there is a religion called christianity they have never heard about anything like jesus or mohammed(they were villagers that came to bangkok for medical treatement we spoke through a friend who translated for us ), they were shocked when i told them that i wasn't a buddist, what will happen to them when they die? will they rot in hell? what about all the moslems that have a distorted view of the bible because the koran told them not to believe in it and take it as a fallacy? will they also rot in hell for something that was'nt their choosing and decision? they were indoctrinated since when they were kids and islam is all they know. what about all the killings, lootings and enslavement that god ordered the jews to carry out on the non jews in the old testament simply because they did not believe in him (despite the fact that he gave them free will to choose) to the glory of his name in the old testament? will a good, merciful and loving good give out such an order? if moses, david, solomon, etc were alive today will they be seen as prophets or war criminals? why are people supposed to look up to these drunks, womanisers, and war criminals for spiritual guidence and moral support?

the chracterization of god as all knowing, all powerful, all kind, all loving, above the human imagination is what simple does'nt add up. his voice is like thunder, his eyes are like the shining and blazing sun, his face is like a mixture of daimond and gold, his power is beyond imagination is what people say  all the time lol, all this are human description of what they want to believe. why use the sun and stars to describe him/her lol? if god truly exist we wont be here talking about his existance. can you see viruses with your ordinary eyes? the answer is no but with the help of the electron microscope you can. moslems and christains have all claimed to have seen either god, jesus and mohammed. they can not all be right, and why should i believe a christain if he tells me that he saw jesus in his vision and discard a moslem if he tells me that he saw prophet mohammed in his dreams or vision too? religion is good because if give people hope, justice and internal peace most especially in a world full of injustice like africa. it is one of the main source of division and impoverishment in the world but it is still a necessary evil, hold unto your faith if it makes you happy and gives you a better understanding of the world and meaning of life , i have discarded mine and i believe i am better for it.

m_nwankwo:

@Manmustwac
How do you know that God does not exist? How do you know God exists in my imagination? What is imagination? Have you seen, heard, torched imagination?

Where is the logic in this point your making? Imagination is to do with the mind. You cannot see your imagination and you cannot touch your imagination. Just like you, you are a spiritual person. You believe you have a spirit, even though u cannot see your spirit and you cannot feel your spirit. But you believe its there. So you asking me what is imagination is talking nonsense

m_nwankwo:

You will still doubt. You will have excuses for it including hallucination, hypnosis, suggestion, autosuggestion. Have you ever physically seen your thoughts and yet you believe your brain produces thoughts.

On my way home from work today i had to catch the train, so i know the train dose exist because i was sitting inside the train. When i got off the train i had to enter a bus so since i know am in the bus i know the bus dose exist. So how can u tell me that if i see God in the flesh i'd be fooling myself? Besides why didn't your God come down from Heaven to stop 9/11 u seriously think that if i saw him on live TV i would still be denying his existance

m_nwankwo:

I do not need to explain to an athiest spiritual things. The power of God is not explained but experienced.. I do not draw from the bible. I draw from the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". Neandathal man, Dinosaurs, Mammoths and prehistoric events are indelibly written in the laws of God and it could be read by those whose spirits are alive. There is nothing enigmatic about prehistoric times. They can be easily descriped. Best wishes.

This is the crux of the problem now. If u can't explain to me, then why should i believe? I have never seen my spirit, i have never felt my spirit so i don't believe i have a spirit. And i don't see how i can experience something that i don't believe in. Its as if your trying to give me spiritual answers to practical questions.

Well am not convinced but as long as your happy with your beliefs i guess thats all that matters

If it helps you guys here's a definition of Imagination.

Imagination is the simulation of sense impressions on the mind without requiring the stimulation of the organs of perceptions. For example, creating the impression of a car on the mind without the Eyes (organ of perception) actually being involved with causing the impression.

Imagination can be controlled by the will of the person imagining and it can also be influenced by spiritual entities causing the impression, and it can also be influenced by the use of substances such as igbo, lsd etc.

Imagination is for the most part a subjective experience so only the person imagining knows that he has an imagination and what the contents of the imagination are. However there are certain cases where the imagination can be demonstrable to others. For instance if I can give you information about an event that is not available to my organs of perceptions claiming that I've 'seen' it in my imagination that would be a suitable demonstration. eg If I can tell you the contents of a closed room that I have not being in or if I can tell you what will happen tomorrow when it is a known fact that tomorrows events are not available to my organs of perception today.

What I am curious about is whether or not Animals have imagination. Can a dog daydream?

Where is the logic in this point your making? Imagination is to do with the mind. You cannot see your imagination and you cannot touch your imagination. Just like you, you are a spiritual person. You believe you have a spirit, even though u cannot see your spirit and you cannot feel your spirit. But you believe its there. So you asking me what is imagination is talking nonsense

The logic is that there are realities which you cannot see, torch, or smell with your physical organs of perception. Will you declare that imagination does not exist just because you cannot physically torch or see it? Can you hear or see radio or TV broadcast directly from the broadcaster with your naked ear or eyes? Why is it possible for you to physically hear or see the broadcasts with a radio or TV set? You assume that I have not seen spirits/souls. I actually have seen and continue to see souls. Perception of a soul for me is even more tangible than eating or breathing. That is why the believe that the soul is different from the body and survives physical death is an irrevocable conviction for me.

On my way home from work today i had to catch the train, so i know the train dose exist because i was sitting inside the train. When i got off the train i had to enter a bus so since i know am in the bus i know the bus dose exist. So how can u tell me that if i see God in the flesh i'D be fooling myself? Besides why didn't your God come down from Heaven to stop 9/11 u seriously think that if i saw him on live TV i would still be denying his existance

Just like you are physically aware of your journey in the train, there are many who are aware of their journey with the power of God. The experience is even more real than a physical travel in a train. But by the way, how are you sure that you are on the train? If in the course of the journey you fall asleep and the train passed through a procession of protesters. Do you remember the procession? If you had the same train journey exactly a year ago, do you remember the details?

This is the crux of the problem now. If u can't explain to me, then why should i believe? I have never seen my spirit, i have never felt my spirit so i don't believe i have a spirit. And i don't see how i can experience something that i don't believe in. Its as if your trying to give me spiritual answers to practical questions.

Well am not convinced but as long as your happy with your beliefs i guess thats all that matters   

I cannot explain to you the power of God. I have also not asked you to believe it. I am just saying that it is possible to experience the power of God. I am also saying that to declare that God does not exist presupposes that the person is aware of all possiblities. Atheists will readily admit that they are not aware of all possiblities. Is it then not presumptious to assert that God does not exist knowing that the claimants  have not and cannot exhaust all possibilities. Or have the atheists become omniscience? I wonder. Cheers.

mazaje:

really. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

  Yep
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

You need to come and see what is going on in nigeria at the moment(i am presently in nigeria), Nigeria is dead because of religion and faith any thing that man needs and wants to do must be done by man himself not by prayer or faith, they never change anything. how can people be so religious and yet so morally bankrupt? how can people be so dependent on god and yet be so poor? it's completely unbelieveable,

   Your concerns are on point sweetie, but you're mixing two seperate issues my brotha.
I'll be the first in line to say Africa as a whole is way behind in moral and social development, but this is not necessarily an indictment against Christianity. Like you said these people claim to be religious and love God YET by their very actions and lifestyle they contradict what the bible teaches - doesn't this prove that they are not really christians? Only a very small percentage of professing 'christians' fit the biblical definition of a christian - majority of the 'christian' leaders and other societal figures of authority are simply exploiting a means they have found is very productive in fleecing others for personal gain. They have taken the concept of God, corrupted it and used it for selfish purposes - this does not mean that God himself is false.
 
And the masses are not exempt from their own responsibility of using their heads. . . but too often poverty coulds the judgement of its victims - not that this is an excuse, but it is an explanation.

  i don't know but if there is a god then he really does'nt answer prayers because if he does nigeria will never remain as it is, people spend hours praying for the country and its leaders and nothing happens while in europe people just tackle their problems head on with out believing and blaming god or the devil for what ever happens to them be it good or bad. people just take responsibility for their actions and they are by FAR better for it in every aspect be it morally, socially, traditionally etc.

  You know I was just reading a couple of days ago in the book of Nehemiah how he was a man of prayer but also one of action. The bible does not advocate sitting on your behind and throwing hours of prayer up to heaven expecting God to come down and solve all your problems - anyone who does that obvoiusly does not know the word of God and I challenge them to show me verses that justify that laziness. The bible teaches us to pray AND act. I could have chose to be another religious figure head, sitting on my couch and praying for financial manna to pay my bills, but no I got up, went to school, and got a great job - along the way I prayed for God's direction and strength and that is how I accomplished it, by His grace and the brains and wisdom and physical strength He gave to me.

which is the true christianity? i told you before that my pastor once told me that catholics(followers of mary) and all the white garment wearing christains will end up in hell, he quoted so many bible passage to support his claims,

  I spent the earliest years of my life in a white garment church, even growing up I saw many things that were against the word of God but will I make a blanket statment and say they're all going to hell? no. Because God cares about the heart, not outward appearances or actions. Now don't get me wrong, doing things contra-biblical is wrong, but if a person loves God and trusts in Jesus to save them, the bible teaches that that is the basic essential for salvation.

mormons believe they are the chosen ones, the jehova witness believe they are the true christains, deeper life believe that austerity is the only way of life that will take you to heaven, TD jakes, paula white, creflo dollar, olseen, david oyedepo, chris oyakilome etc all believe in prosperity gospel and faith, baptist, anglican, othordox etc( there was a time i visited an orthodox church in greece and ran way for my life becaue i could not understand the madness that was going on in there) so may christains are condeming and castigating the prosperity gospel preachers with valid evidence from the bible,  without mentioning that the prosperity gospel preachers get their inspirations from the bible too. the bible and the koran as i have come to understand supports everthing both good and evil. there are over 30, 000 sects in christianity most of them believeing that there sect is the only true sect and most fighting and castigating each other, why is that so? the only time christains come together is when people say that there is no god or when people question the bible and the divinity of jesus.

  I commented on a thread once here on Nairaland where the whole point is that anyone at anytime can make the bible say whatever they want it to say, support whatever practice they want it to support. If you twist the scriptures long and hard enough, you can reach any conclusion your heart desires. BUT the bible is not greek or rocket science, if you take the time to hoenstly and genuinely read and understand it, you will find that all the lies and fluff around will fall away under its scrutiny. I hear you about the hundreds of sects and churches, that's why I don't belong to and exalt any sect above the others, I follow the bible alone.

this divisions have been in existance since the beggining of christianity, a good study of the history of the bible will show you how most of these divisions came about. do you know that there is a book called the  book of mary that was not included in the bible which clearly stated and supported the divinity of mary? i believe that that is where the catholics got their inspiration from, there are so many books that were not included in the bible and that has a lot to do with the bible and the religion as a man made ideology. there are so many versions of the bible each with a narrative to conform to the different ideas that each different sect holds. there is a documentary tittled banned from the bible part 1 and 2 i will like you to watch it, you will understand what i am talking about if you watch it. i later came to understand the islam was formed purely on the christain faith after watching the documentary , islam was an idea that was stolen from the jewish and christain religion.

  It's common knowledge, especially in these forums that islam has no identity without christianity.
Yeah there are several other "books" floating around, dated to be within the same time period as the writings of the bible, why don't we consider them scripture? because they were not included in the bible. For me it is very simple: anything God wanted us to have, it is what we have in the bible - and I know this by faith (there's that word again)

if your faith makes you a better person then please hold tightly unto it, i have never advised any body to leave his/her faith infact i don't care, i live in a godless society and the people there are a 100 times BETTER than all the god(jesus and mohammed) foot soldiers that we have here in nigeria who are full of evil. i don't believe in god and i believe i am better for it. i don't fear and posses any guilt anymore(i live freely), i don't blame non existent and imaginary beings like satan, angels or god for my successes and failures in life, i take charge and hold myself responsible for everything i do weather good or evil and i am better for it. when i offend people i ask their forgiveness and i don't pray to any imaginary god to forgive me.

  And I respect you immensely for that. At the same time I could not disagree more with you. You once believed until you came across certain philosophies and thoughts that caused you to cease, what was it that made you believe in the first place? do you think it was merely tradition and your upbringing? no my dear, it was something more, something inherent, something that unfortunately I cannot show or prove but hope that you will introspect, and re-discover the knowledge inside you. You're a cool dude Maz, I can feel and understand where you're coming from, and I hope and pray you come around to Christ.

all you need to do as a christain is believe in his divinity, resurrection and his sonship, live according to his principles and you will make heaven to be with him for enternity. ok what about some one living in sri lanka that has never heard about jesus? i have meet about 10 of such people in thailand who do not even know that there is a religion called christianity they have never heard about anything like jesus or mohammed(they were villagers that came to bangkok for medical treatement we spoke through a friend who translated for us ), they were shocked when i told them that i wasn't a buddist, what will happen to them when they die? will they rot in hell? what about all the moslems that have a distorted view of the bible because the koran told them not to believe in it and take it as a fallacy? will they also rot in hell for something that was'nt their choosing and decision? they were indoctrinated since when they were kids and islam is all they know. what about all the killings, lootings and enslavement that god ordered the jews to carry out on the non jews in the old testament simply because they did not believe in him (despite the fact that he gave them free will to choose) to the glory of his name in the old testament? will a good, merciful and loving good give out such an order? if moses, david, solomon, etc were alive today will they be seen as prophets or war criminals? why are people supposed to look up to these drunks, womanisers, and war criminals for spiritual guidence and moral support?

   Like I had mentioned before, the bible teaches that God is just and righteous, He will not simply throw into hell someone who never heard of Jesus, who never had the opportunity to accept or reject Him, and I believe in this 'justness' of God that He will righteously deal accordingly with those people in a fair manner. I believe this because the bible says so, I believe it by faith.
  I guess we always come back to that point - faith - it is really where everything comes together or falls apart.

JeSoul:

Yep
1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Your concerns are on point sweetie, but you're mixing two seperate issues my brotha.
I'll be the first in line to say Africa as a whole is way behind in moral and social development, but this is not necessarily an indictment against Christianity. Like you said these people claim to be religious and love God YET by their very actions and lifestyle they contradict what the bible teaches - doesn't this prove that they are not really christians? Only a very small percentage of professing 'christians' fit the biblical definition of a christian - majority of the 'christian' leaders and other societal figures of authority are simply exploiting a means they have found is very productive in fleecing others for personal gain. They have taken the concept of God, corrupted it and used it for selfish purposes - this does not mean that God himself is false.

And the masses are not exempt from their own responsibility of using their heads. . . but too often poverty coulds the judgement of its victims - not that this is an excuse, but it is an explanation.

You know I was just reading a couple of days ago in the book of Nehemiah how he was a man of prayer but also one of action. The bible does not advocate sitting on your behind and throwing hours of prayer up to heaven expecting God to come down and solve all your problems - anyone who does that obvoiusly does not know the word of God and I challenge them to show me verses that justify that laziness. The bible teaches us to pray AND act. I could have chose to be another religious figure head, sitting on my couch and praying for financial manna to pay my bills, but no I got up, went to school, and got a great job - along the way I prayed for God's direction and strength and that is how I accomplished it, by His grace and the brains and wisdom and physical strength He gave to me.

I spent the earliest years of my life in a white garment church, even growing up I saw many things that were against the word of God but will I make a blanket statment and say they're all going to hell? no. Because God cares about the heart, not outward appearances or actions. Now don't get me wrong, doing things contra-biblical is wrong, but if a person loves God and trusts in Jesus to save them, the bible teaches that that is the basic essential for salvation.
I commented on a thread once here on Nairaland where the whole point is that anyone at anytime can make the bible say whatever they want it to say, support whatever practice they want it to support. If you twist the scriptures long and hard enough, you can reach any conclusion your heart desires. BUT the bible is not greek or rocket science, if you take the time to hoenstly and genuinely read and understand it, you will find that all the lies and fluff around will fall away under its scrutiny. I hear you about the hundreds of sects and churches, that's why I don't belong to and exalt any sect above the others, I follow the bible alone.

It's common knowledge, especially in these forums that islam has no identity without christianity.
Yeah there are several other "books" floating around, dated to be within the same time period as the writings of the bible, why don't we consider them scripture? because they were not included in the bible. For me it is very simple: anything God wanted us to have, it is what we have in the bible - and I know this by faith (there's that word again)

And I respect you immensely for that. At the same time I could not disagree more with you. You once believed until you came across certain philosophies and thoughts that caused you to cease, what was it that made you believe in the first place? do you think it was merely tradition and your upbringing? no my dear, it was something more, something inherent, something that unfortunately I cannot show or prove but hope that you will introspect, and re-discover the knowledge inside you. You're a cool dude Maz, I can feel and understand where you're coming from, and I hope and pray you come around to Christ.
Like I had mentioned before, the bible teaches that God is just and righteous, He will not simply throw into hell someone who never heard of Jesus, who never had the opportunity to accept or reject Him, and I believe in this 'justness' of God that He will righteously deal accordingly with those people in a fair manner. I believe this because the bible says so, I believe it by faith.
I guess we always come back to that point - faith - it is really where everything comes together or falls apart.

Thanks for your reply, hold strongly unto your faith if it makes you a better person and judge not.

mazaje:

Thanks for your reply, hold strongly unto your faith if it makes you a better person and judge not.

Yezzur! will not. Thanks to you too for engaging with me, you're a pleasant person to talk to

JeSoul:

Yezzur! will not. Thanks to you too for engaging with me, you're a pleasant person to talk to

Thanks for the compliment .

lol@this topic too

Firstly, there is no problem with atheists. The truth is atheists are way too far intelligent and rational than theists who believe in imaginary faith and dumb belief. If there were no theists there will be no atheists. Now most theists that love to harass atheists are mostly from the christian sect or organized cult who get aggrevated when ever they hear that not everybody is a zombie and doesnt follow some dumb stupid book that is filled with fallacies and contradictions enough to make the harry potter books green with envy.

The greatest enemy of the bible isnt an atheist but science, archeology, geology and history. For every nonsense written in the bible, it takes a rational mind to check it out whether it is true or false and so far so good, almost all the events and happenings in the bible has been dismissed by intelligent people as mere fabrications or widely unbelievable stories or plain plagiarism from old pagan religions.

How then should a christian apologist like someone that discovers that biblical stories are mere inventions written by illiterates hiding under the guise of prophets?

How can you say an intelligent holy prophet of God could write this:

"Happy shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!" , Psalms 137:9

Does this statement make sense in a book that is supposed to be holy? Can you read this kind of story to your children at night before they sleep?

What about this verse in the bible:

"While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day, And the Lord said to Moses, 'The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.' And all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses." , Numbers 15:32

Does this daft and dense statement potray any form of intelligence in the bible? Just because a man was gathering sticks on the sabbath, he was stoned to death? Why dont you read this passage to your kid or junior brothers at night before they sleep? What is so holy about this passage. Doesnt this passage scream 'murders'

Other very foolish examples to show that the bible is a very sick book filled with irrelevant and inhumane verses include:

"Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you." , Jeremiah 50:21

Imagine a kind loving God who profess to have created man in his own image and kindness order the death of his own creation. This doesnt inspire any confidence of omniscence to me. If he knew they were going to be killed, why create them in the first place? If he knew they were going to be killed and he still went ahead to create them, doesnt that show he is a sick dude who creates and enjoys the bloody scenes of blood flying around like some 14th century roman gladiator match?

"For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation." , Exodus 20:5

This passage to me represents the whole error of the bible. You claim god is good and kind but he is jealous? Isnt that things we rebuke chicks for? for a god to be competiting for affection with molten images that cannot speak or move, shows how deranged and delusional the god of the bible is. What about the issue of visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children and fourth generation?

This is the way i see it. Your father was probably caught stealing somewhere in Holland 30 years ago and you are traced back to Nigeria and all of a sudden you are arrested for the theft your father commited 30 years ago. Doesnt that sound at best ludicrious?

In fact there are thousands of these dumb passages in the bible that befuddles any reason person. the fact that theists believe so much in emotions, curses and fire branding words of doom, shows how unintelligent they are atimes. When it comes to the issues of science, maths, literature, physics and all acamedic subject, theists are the most gifted lot you can find anywhere. They have tranversed the 4 corners of the earth to achieve the impossible to invent and discover using their senses. But when it comes to the issues of the bible, their brains are more porous than an Ethopian fruit basket and they lose all their senses and faculty and fall for this bull. The worst aspect is that whenever they try to rationalize anything biblical, they speak in mono parables and very unintelligent words using faith, spirit and emotions when they know quite well that such caterwauls dont hold water any where.

A sample christian would instead of trying to explain the rational of such a foolish passage in the bible, resort to idiocy in the mould of " God will arrest you very soon", " ah dont speak of the lord God like that o! the day God will handle you hen!" or " you cannot understand the things of God unless you are born again" or "Woe to those that dont believe in God"

See how foolish these responses are! Instead of stating the obvious, they resort to dementia and waging curses and firebranding insults just like the God of the bible.

Truthfully, the title of this topic should be Re: Problem with theists and not atheists.

m_nwankwo:

The logic is that there are realities which you cannot see, torch, or smell with your physical organs of perception. Will you declare that imagination does not exist just because you cannot physically torch or see it? Can you hear or see radio or TV broadcast directly from the broadcaster with your naked ear or eyes? Why is it possible for you to physically hear or see the broadcasts with a radio or TV set? You assume that I have not seen spirits/souls. I actually have seen and continue to see souls. Perception of a soul for me is even more tangible than eating or breathing. That is why the believe that the soul is different from the body and survives physical death is an irrevocable conviction for me.

Imagination dose exist but it hasn't got anything to do with touch, u can't touch anything that you've imagined it dosen't even make sense. I can't explain the way Radio and TV broadcasts work but that is to do with technology. Yes i believe u see souls but then thats cause your a spiritual person and its to do with your beliefs. Just like you see souls a Buddhist will see something else according to his beliefs so would a Seek a Muslim etc

m_nwankwo:

m_nwankwo link=topic=159225.msg2691775#msg2691775 date=1219415340:

Just like you are physically aware of your journey in the train, there are many who are aware of their journey with the power of God. The experience is even more real than a physical travel in a train. But by the way, how are you sure that you are on the train? If in the course of the journey you fall asleep and the train passed through a procession of protesters. Do you remember the procession? If you had the same train journey exactly a year ago, do you remember the details?

Your journey with God is a spiritual journey i guess u experience it pacticulary when your in Church on sundays during your singing and dancing. If i enter a train then it means am in the train whether i remember the journey or not i'll remember that i entered from point A and that am getting off at point B period.

m_nwankwo:

I cannot explain to you the power of God. I have also not asked you to believe it. I am just saying that it is possible to experience the power of God. [b]Atheists will readily admit that they are not aware of all possiblities. Is it then not presumptious to assert that God does not exist knowing that the claimants have not and cannot exhaust all possibilities. Or have the atheists become omniscience?[/b]I am also saying that to declare that God does not exist presupposes that the person is aware of all possiblities. I wonder. Cheers.

Well i don't understand whet u mean by the statement that i've just highlighted

it's strange theist would use the bible to argue  against atheists, a book whose errors have been exposed by athiests. doesn't seem like a good look when your only source has been discredited. it's nice to have faith, but the chinese once believed china was the center of the earth. go figure

@ JeSoul
"The problem with the atheist"? It only takes the One whom they refuse to believe to solve!

who is it who they refuse to believe ? Allah, Jehova,Horus,Ba'al, Skinevasaski, Zues, Amaganada etc?

Zino I picked only this portion of ur comment to respond to as the rest of it would be pointless reiteration.

Zino Ben:

lol@this topic too

Now most theists that love to harass atheists are mostly from the christian sect or organized cult who get aggrevated when ever they hear that not everybody is a zombie and doesnt follow some dumb stupid book that is filled with fallacies and contradictions enough to make the harry potter books green with envy.

Take one quick glance over the NL religion board and tell me who is harassing who. Take a quick count of the atheist-themed topics compared to the theist ones and you should have ur answer pretty quickly. Even in this topic it is explicitly clear from the get-go that this is a response to the atheists on this board who constantly 'harrass' the christians in here. Though we are not complaining . . . we will take your ridicule and everything else happily for the sake of Christ

Bawomolo,
are you tired of your "daily contradictions" thread?

Detruth,
hows everything with you over in Bangui?

bawomolo:
it's nice to have faith, but the chinese once believed china was the center of the earth. go figure

What a ridiculous notion! Everybody knows that ILE-IFE is the center of the earth. The first point of creation.

Pastor AIO:


What a ridiculous notion! Everybody knows that ILE-IFE is the center of the earth. The first point of creation.

LOL . . . indeed. Wasn't it the 5-toed chicken that spread the dirt with its feet all over the earth?

mazaje:

who is it who they refuse to believe ? Allah, Jehova,Horus,Ba'al, Skinevasaski, Zues, Amaganada etc?

The ONLY One you are trying all your best to deny to know! you still thought and talked about HIM last night

JeSoul:

LOL . . . indeed. Wasn't it the 5-toed chicken that spread the dirt with its feet all over the earth?

Uhhhh! That must be orunmila's chicken . . .  he has being looking for it for long!

@ JeSoul
Life is sweet! mostly when you are full of Light! . . . got you dear!