Hey I don't want to sound like a racist.  But I suppose I need to know what the criteria are by which I am told that the Germans were the most spiritually capable of getting God's truth.  What qualities made them the most spiritual people? 

I also do not think that Jesus came to the Jewish because they were the most spiritually advanced.  Far from it.  And the bible (which I accept you don't take as true) says otherwise.

Hitler did not mislead the Germans, antisemitism had been rife in Europe for centuries and it was especially bad in Germany from the 19th century.

Every people has their good and bad points.  In fact we all share are good and bad points.  What makes the difference is that certain people tend to specialize in one or the other aspect of good and bad qualities.  With German people it is haughtiness and competitiveness.  And not even so much with foreigners.  Amongst themselves they are such competitive people and such bad losers when they lose.  This one I know as a consistent fact from all my dealings with them, which is a lot of dealings. I also know a fair bit about their history and their culture to know that there is nothing about them to make them more spiritually advanced than other people in the world.  (again though, I'm not sure what are the criteria for judging spiritual advancement but I usually expect to see a certain meekness in spiritual people.) 
I had a german friend who burst into tears once over some issue.  Then promptly she wiped her tears and apologised.  SHE APOLOGISED!!!  What for, I asked.  You're upset and understandably so.  She was apologising for showing weakness.  That is soo typical of germans.  But having said all that, I do love them as a people. 

justcool:



And I stand by what I said! Your assetion that the Germans are bad is completely false, biased, and based on ignorance. Also your description of their temperance is totally false.

Actually I never said that they were bad.  I said that they were on the wrong side in two world wars and they have a horrible nationalistic history.  I know their temperament well enough to make the statements I make.  They are made from my experience and even Germans corroborate it.

seeklove:

@Pastor AIO
Germans are not that bad. My sister lived in Germany for more than ten years, she still thinks that Germans are the nicest poeple she ever met. She had a legitimate Job there, and she says that the poeple were so good to her and her family to the extent that when she was migrating to America, all her neigbors in Germany were crying like babies. So many Nigerians in Germany are into illigal things, which the Germans and their Government frown upon, this makes Nigerians say that they are bad.

Again, I didn't say that german's are bad!

Hitler decieved Germans. He is not a hero in Germany today. His party, Nazi is also very unpopuler. So many Germans, even during the world war, knew that the war was unjust, but some of them were just fighting out of petrotisim. Just as so many Americans think that the war in Iraq is wrong yet they fight out of petrotisim for America.

What's the difference between patriotism and nationalism?

Hitler, Nazi and the world war was just one apple. don't use one event to qualify a whole poeple who have exsisted for a very long time.  Remenber that Hitler was a dictator. Racisim and racial superiority was introduced to Germans by the nazi party. I don't want to mention where Hitler leant that from. But research into it. Infact Hitler actually is not a full blooded German. Hitler has a Jewish background and some Historians say that he was actualy Austrian. He used the German poeple who were very gulible. Please research further into the issue.

Okay, let's take another German icon, this time of the 19th century, Wagner.  Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies

By the way the Nazi party was actually voted into power by the german power. It was a known fact that they would abolish democracy if they won the election.

The idea of racial superiority was not introduced by Hitler, far from it. Eugenics and theories of a pure race was rife in Europe but especially big in germany where they believed that they were the original Aryans. The Blond beasts, as nietzsche (whether he meant it in a racial sense or was just interpreted as such is another matter).

Many Jews would be, and are, extremely riled by the suggestion that Hitler could have had Jewish blood. Please don't mention that to a Jew. I done before and the response was not nice.

If those things that you mentioned are the only bad things in history for a country as old as Germany(even older than America), then they are not bad at all.
Even the jews who are God's Chosen pople had some bad apples, like King Herod. But this doest not justify calling the jews a bad poeple. PLEESSSE!!!!

'aw lawd, we're really going off the rails now.  Germany older than America!!!  America was formed in 4 july 1776.  Germany was formed around 1871 and was headed by a prince called Otto Von Bismarck.  Before then it was made up of little principalities that all shared a common language.  Bismarck was actually the one that invaded the other german states and eventually created a german empire.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Bismarck.

Again I assert that there is nothing special about the german people that makes them merit having some special readiness for God that no other human beings had.

@ Pastor AIO
Your ignorance is outstanding. No amount of rubissh from you will justify you calling Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. And you dared comeback and claimed that you never called them bad.
Its like saying that sombody stole from you and then at the same time saying that that person is not a thief. You may not have used the word "bad" but you infered it!.
I don't know your level of education but your ignorance is astunding! Germany exsisted even during the time of the roman empire. I think the romans refered to them as Gull. Read Julius Ceacer's "gullic wars". The German empire was formed in 18 January 1871. They became a republic in 23 May 1949. But before the empire, Germany had been in exisitance for decades of years. I repeat, Germany is older than America which was born in July 4, 1776. America got their indepence from Great Britain. Germany got their indepence from the roman empire, just like Great Britain. At first they were called the Holy Roman empire, which was formed in 962.
Man get your facts right!
If you understand that your criterial for judgeing spiritual maturity may be different from other, then why do you call Justcool's post bolony? From what justcool posted, this is what he said:

justcool:

". He incarnates among the people who are spiritually developed enough to receive him. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task."

I don't see where he said that the Germans are the most spiritually advanced poeple on earth. Please if you refereing to another post, post it and lets see it.

The fact that sombody cried and apologised is actually a sign of being civiliced. Even here in America, educated poeple always apologise when their emotions takes over them. It is simple cortesey.
I hate it when poeple gerneralize about an entire poeple just because of a few. We Nigerians who are always victims sterotype should be the last poeple to do that. Just because you met a few Germans, you feel knowlegable enough to call the entire Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. It is things like this that cause racial wars and tensions. How would you feel is you are a german and come across a post where your entire poeple are discribed as cold?
Germans are known for their effectiveness, and their ingenuity in biulding effecient machines, even we Nigerians have expressions like, "German engine."

@justcool
i am still waiting to see why the likes of Hitler and Nazism was found among the poeple "who are spiritually developed enough to receive Abd-ru-shin. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task."
M_nwankwo please answere, or is Justcool wrong?

seeklove:

@ Pastor AIO
Your ignorance is outstanding. No amount of rubissh from you will justify you calling Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. And you dared comeback and claimed that you never called them bad.
Its like saying that sombody stole from you and then at the same time saying that that person is not a thief. You may not have used the word "bad" but you infered it!.
I don't know your level of education but your ignorance is astunding! Germany exsisted even during the time of the roman empire. I think the romans refered to them as Gull. Read Julius Ceacer's "gullic wars". The German empire was formed in 18 January 1871. They became a republic in 23 May 1949. But before the empire, Germany had been in exisitance for decades of years. I repeat, Germany is older than America which was born in July 4, 1776. America got their indepence from Great Britain. Germany got their indepence from the roman empire, just like Great Britain. At first they were called the Holy Roman empire, which was formed in 962.
Man get your facts right!
If you understand that your criterial for judgeing spiritual maturity may be different from other, then why do you call Justcool's post bolony? From what justcool posted, this is what he said:

I don't see where he said that the Germans are the most spiritually advanced poeple on earth. Please if you refereing to another post, post it and lets see it.

The fact that sombody cried and apologised is actually a sign of being civiliced. Even here in America, educated poeple always apologise when their emotions takes over them. It is simple cortesey.
I hate it when poeple gerneralize about an entire poeple just because of a few. We Nigerians who are always victims sterotype should be the last poeple to do that. Just because you met a few Germans, you feel knowlegable enough to call the entire Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. It is things like this that cause racial wars and tensions. How would you feel is you are a german and come across a post where your entire poeple are discribed as cold?
Germans are known for their effectiveness, and their ingenuity in biulding effecient machines, even we Nigerians have expressions like, "German engine."

@justcool
i am still waiting to see why the likes of Hitler and Nazism was found among the poeple "who are spiritually developed enough to receive Abd-ru-shin. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task."
M_nwankwo please answere, or is Justcool wrong?

Oh boy, I tire. Let's leave it. I feel an urge to address the points that you've raised but I fear that nothing will come of it. I believe I already know your mindset now. And Nigeria has always existed too. it was called various names but it was always there abi? Let me stop before I write more than I intend to.

seeklove:

@justcool
i am still waiting to see why the likes of Hitler and Nazism was found among the poeple "who are spiritually developed enough to receive Abd-ru-shin. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task."
M_nwankwo please answere, or is Justcool wrong?

@seeklove.
You have the answer already, only that you have not drawn the connection. Like I said earlier, the Germans were specially prepared for the reception of the Grail Message. Even their language was carefully guided and prepared until it flourished to a language good enough to convey the truth. In a way, one can say that they were chosen. But this being chosen has nothing to do with favoritism. People are chosen based on their development, God do not chose people based on favoritism, He chooses only people who posses the necessary soil for the mission. Thus at the time that the messager was ready to incarnate, the Germans provided the most suitable soil for His incarnation.

But  darkness, always struggle against Truth bringers, and always try to make their mission impossible. Thus even prior to His incarnation, darkness already knew the people that will provide the bridge for His incarnation. And in its(darkness) quest to keep humans enslaved, darkness will approach such a people and try to cut them off from their development. And finally use them(the people) to fight against the Truth bringer.

Thus if you look beyond the outward physical circumstances and look into the spiritual situation, you will undersatand that the Germans at that time stood under a great pressure. In their midst, a light happening was about to take place, and as a result, among them darkness exacted its greatest strength -- to lull them to sleep so that they will not recognise the Truth bringer. One can say that they stood in between the Light and the darkness, thus they can be likened to an arena for war. God cannot take away our freewill and make us only listen to the Light. Neither can darkness take away our free will. The only thing God can do is to give us or show us His volition or His will, we are left to decided wheather to obey it or not. At the same time darkness also approaches humans and send them its volition. It is left for the human to decided which volition to obey.

You will recognise the correctness of this explanation if you look around you. History shows it clearly enough. Consider theses things: (1)Hitler's rise to power, (2)his hatred for the Jews, (3)the Nazi party and what they stood for, (4)the Nazi party's struggle against Abd-ru-shin. All these are the outward forms of a great spiritual battle. I will give you a food for thought-- have you ever wondered why the Nazi arrested Abd-ru-shin, stopped His writings and had Him under surveillance until His departure from the earth. For a long time in Germany, during the Nazi regime, the Grail Message was banned. Now why did a political party fight so much against a book or Abd-ru-shin who had neither any political inclination nor intention. Why would a regime fighting a very serious war spend so much energy on just one man(Abd-ru-shin) who writes only about God and spirituality? Does this make sense? It only makes sense when one recognises the spiritual motivations behind scene. Some would say that perhaps Hitler was an atheist who didn't believe in spirituality. But this is not the case, since Hitler was s strong allay of the catholics.

It is similar to what happened in the time of Christ, the Jews who were the most spiritually developed, were chosen and prepared for the reception of the son of God. While God was making his preparation, Lucifer(darkness) was also making his. The battle field was the Jews. Christ carefully chose 12 men who He instructed daily, they were His closest associates. Now in the light of my explanation you can also now ensage that those 12 men were under enormous pressure. Lucifer exacted his strongest attack on them, in order to lull them to sleep or use them to harm Jesus. The puzzle now clears about the case of Judas. People often wondered why Judas(a man specially chosen by Christ) could do such a terrible thing. The answer is that even though Judas had all that it takes to be an apostle, he still had a free will which Christ cannot take away from him. Judas gave in to the volition of Lucifer who was always trying to win the apostles.

Being spiritually developed does not mean that the person can no longer do evil. As long as you are on earth, evil volition can always approach you, but it remains with you to dispel them or give in to them. You have the free will. Only in Paradise will we be in an environment completely rid of darkness and its evil volition. Thus a spiritually matured person  has a responsibility to exact himself spiritually every moment, in order to remain at his high spiritual postion. Once he slacks in his spiritual exaction, darkness can win him over.

Now put it all together. The Germans at that time provided the best soil for the incarnation of Abd-ru-shin. Darkness in its quest to rub mankind of this help exacted its strongest attack against the Germans. Darkness succeeded in dragging them down through its agent or representative--Hitler. But in all serious struggles between light and darkness, Light always wins. In this case too the light won! Despite all struggle against it. The message was successfully brought to mankind, today it is not banned in any part of the world and anybody is wellcome to examine it.

Today there is no nation that can be called the most spiritually advanced. In all nations of the world, there both spiritually advanced people and spiritually retarded people. The earth today is not what it used to be, for today we stand in judgement of God which speeds up everything. Some are speedily heading towards distruction, while others are speedily heading towards salvation. Spiritually advanced people can be found in almost all countries of the world; because, today the Truth is made available to all mankind. Any body who lives by it will in a shorter time achieve a spiritual advancement that would have taken him centuries to achieve. People are not spiritually advanced based on their nationality or race. Only spiritual movement and recognition brings about spiritual advancement. A people that were advanced a few centuries ago, may not necessarily remain so today. Once they slack in their advancement, they will start moving downhill, for there is no stagnation in the spiritual life.

You now see how ridiculous it is to attack my assertion about the Germans as being spiritually advanced then, just because of a few experiences with a few Germans of today.  

I hope this helps, if there is any part not clear enough please bring it to my attention.
Renaming Blessed.

@ justcool,
thats a wonderful writeup, thanks so much for that.
I've been following this discussion from the onset, but i just felt like sitting and watching, cos pilgril is a lady with a preconceived ideas concerning the message and i see it basically fruitless trying to explain things to her, there's been discussion in the past btw us even with some other adherents like HND-HOLDER, otuwe e.t.c, so i know who she is that's why i keep mute, and dont forget what the message says concerning those that allow this last opportunity pass them by cos they will never again be in this position, and the hour to find redemption is forever lost. Before the end of time, the truth must reveal itself to every creature so that there wont be any excuses on the day of judgement, evrey human spirit on earth now will at one time of teir existence come across the TRUTh, but it's now left for them to open their intuitive perception to be able to see it as it is, and if they still cant recognise it, it's simply their fault.

@ seeklove,
i can really see the quest for seeking truth in you, and pls dont let that be buried.
The bringer of the message ABD-RU-SHIN (1875-1941), for every light bringer on earth, there always arises darkness to disturb the great work of redemption brought by this bringer, just as in the case of Jesus.
Between his life time, do you just think the 1st world war (1914-1918) and 2nd world war (1938-1945) and which the germanics are all in the centre of these wars is just a coincidence? NO
Anywhere a light envoy is incarnated, there's this concentration of a very high magnitude of the LORD's power around him and this also affect his surrounding. But this neutral light power, which the people also receive can be diverted in different ways depending on the free will of those concerned. It is due to high magnitude of power that gives rise t germany being at the world centre stage, they became the most powerful nation on earth then, crushing any nations standing in their way. And also trying to stop the great work of redeption which is to be found in the message being written then by abdrushin. The message is not a political book, but the authoritties in Germany then knew that it opens the mind of every individual tobe be independent, fought against communism and so many other things, so hey see to it as a threat to national unity. They made sure it didnt see the light of the day, public lectures were banned then, reading of the message was seen as a crime then, even the author was locked up and banned from further writing, and it was during this lockup period then that he made so many adjustments like, compiling the lectures into the message, and also into volumes. It's the final toughings we hsve now.
It was due to the high power around him them that also affected Germany both positively and negatively, Their economy was the best then, and the ALMIGHTY himself knew then that if his envoy is still suppose to be alive during the 2nd world war, there'll be a lot of disastrous happeings in the world, due to the ruler then HITLER was being used as agent of the darkness in dealing with the lord's chosen (jews) so HE decided to take away abck his envoy in the year 1941, and shortly after just 4 years, HITLER miraculously lost the war.
WILL ONE SAY THATS A COINCIDENCE?

There's still mcuh to be discusss about HITLER, and am asking m_nwankwo and justcool, will that be adisable for me to do that on a public forum like this, i guess you know what am saying

justcool:

@seeklove.
You have the answer already, only that you have not drawn the connection. Like I said earlier, the Germans were specially prepared for the reception of the Grail Message. Even their language was carefully guided and prepared until it flourished to a language good enough to convey the truth. In a way, one can say that they were chosen. But this being chosen has nothing to do with favoritism. People are chosen based on their development, God do not chose people based on favoritism, He chooses only people who posses the necessary soil for the mission. Thus at the time that the messager was ready to incarnate, the Germans provided the most suitable soil for His incarnation.

But  darkness, always struggle against Truth bringers, and always try to make their mission impossible. Thus even prior to His incarnation, darkness already knew the people that will provide the bridge for His incarnation. And in its(darkness) quest to keep humans enslaved, darkness will approach such a people and try to cut them off from their development. And finally use them(the people) to fight against the Truth bringer.

Thus if you look beyond the outward physical circumstances and look into the spiritual situation, you will undersatand that the Germans at that time stood under a great pressure. In their midst, a light happening was about to take place, and as a result, among them darkness exacted its greatest strength -- to lull them to sleep so that they will not recognise the Truth bringer. One can say that they stood in between the Light and the darkness, thus they can be likened to an arena for war. God cannot take away our freewill and make us only listen to the Light. Neither can darkness take away our free will. The only thing God can do is to give us or show us His volition or His will, we are left to decided wheather to obey it or not. At the same time darkness also approaches humans and send them its volition. It is left for the human to decided which volition to obey.

You will recognise the correctness of this explanation if you look around you. History shows it clearly enough. Consider theses things: (1)Hitler's rise to power, (2)his hatred for the Jews, (3)the Nazi party and what they stood for, (4)the Nazi party's struggle against Abd-ru-shin. All these are the outward forms of a great spiritual battle. I will give you a food for thought-- have you ever wondered why the Nazi arrested Abd-ru-shin, stopped His writings and had Him under surveillance until His departure from the earth. For a long time in Germany, during the Nazi regime, the Grail Message was banned. Now why did a political party fight so much against a book or Abd-ru-shin who had neither any political inclination nor intention. Why would a regime fighting a very serious war spend so much energy on just one man(Abd-ru-shin) who writes only about God and spirituality? Does this make sense? It only makes sense when one recognises the spiritual motivations behind scene. Some would say that perhaps Hitler was an atheist who didn't believe in spirituality. But this is not the case, since Hitler was s strong allay of the catholics.

It is similar to what happened in the time of Christ, the Jews who were the most spiritually developed, were chosen and prepared for the reception of the son of God. While God was making his preparation, Lucifer(darkness) was also making his. The battle field was the Jews. Christ carefully chose 12 men who He instructed daily, they were His closest associates. Now in the light of my explanation you can also now ensage that those 12 men were under enormous pressure. Lucifer exacted his strongest attack on them, in order to lull them to sleep or use them to harm Jesus. The puzzle now clears about the case of Judas. People often wondered why Judas(a man specially chosen by Christ) could do such a terrible thing. The answer is that even though Judas had all that it takes to be an apostle, he still had a free will which Christ cannot take away from him. Judas gave in to the volition of Lucifer who was always trying to win the apostles.

Being spiritually developed does not mean that the person can no longer do evil. As long as you are on earth, evil volition can always approach you, but it remains with you to dispel them or give in to them. You have the free will. Only in Paradise will we be in an environment completely rid of darkness and its evil volition. Thus a spiritually matured person  has a responsibility to exact himself spiritually every moment, in order to remain at his high spiritual postion. Once he slacks in his spiritual exaction, darkness can win him over.

Now put it all together. The Germans at that time provided the best soil for the incarnation of Abd-ru-shin. Darkness in its quest to rub mankind of this help exacted its strongest attack against the Germans. Darkness succeeded in dragging them down through its agent or representative--Hitler. But in all serious struggles between light and darkness, Light always wins. In this case too the light won! Despite all struggle against it. The message was successfully brought to mankind, today it is not banned in any part of the world and anybody is wellcome to examine it.

Today there is no nation that can be called the most spiritually advanced. In all nations of the world, there both spiritually advanced people and spiritually retarded people. The earth today is not what it used to be, for today we stand in judgement of God which speeds up everything. Some are speedily heading towards distruction, while others are speedily heading towards salvation. Spiritually advanced people can be found in almost all countries of the world; because, today the Truth is made available to all mankind. Any body who lives by it will in a shorter time achieve a spiritual advancement that would have taken him centuries to achieve. People are not spiritually advanced based on their nationality or race. Only spiritual movement and recognition brings about spiritual advancement. A people that were advanced a few centuries ago, may not necessarily remain so today. Once they slack in their advancement, they will start moving downhill, for there is no stagnation in the spiritual life.

You now see how ridiculous it is to attack my assertion about the Germans as being spiritually advanced then, just because of a few experiences with a few Germans of today.  

I hope this helps, if there is any part not clear enough please bring it to my attention.
Renaming Blessed.

I've heard that argument before. According to Fela Kuti Nigeria is the most Spiritually advanced place in the world and that is why there is so much Corruption.

How can spiritual alertness bring about intensed corruption?

Its like having light and darkness at the same place at the same time.
It is either the light was not truly there, all along. Otherwise, there
will not be any sincilla of darkness.

Nigeria can not be truly spiritual and yet corrupetd. I think we have to
look at it from the microcozm, the individual issue. Those who are truly
spiritual will not participate in corruption. There must be some of those
among the poor, if none among the elites.

@ olabowale,
you've said it all, the secret there is that for evry place on earth, there's always exist side-by-side both the light and darkness, the superiority goes to the group with more intense power of radiation. And this doesnt depend on population but how strong the power is in each of them.
In the case of the israelites, they were the lord's chosen at that time, but that didnt remove the fact that there're some bad eggs among them. But those that belong to light supercede the opposite, and the intensity of the power in them is far higher than those that belongs to the darkness.
The same can be applied anywhere, Nigeria is not an exemption.

When 10 people are chosen to carry out the light task on earth and 8 people fall by the way side or become erring, or even become antagonist to the very mission they were perpared for, those 2 that remain will be given the power of the 8 others that fell away.
So when those that belong to the light in Nigeria, strive earnestly and genuinely in trying to focus more on the light task on earth, very soon darkness will fade away, but the opposite is the case. The darkness is getting stronger each passing day and this is due to the lukewarm attitude of those few that belong to the Light.

We need to take a closer look at that argument.

justcool:


Thus if you look beyond the outward physical circumstances and look into the spiritual situation, you will undersatand that the Germans at that time stood under a great pressure. In their midst, a light happening was about to take place, and as a result, among them darkness exacted its greatest strength -- to lull them to sleep so that they will not recognise the Truth bringer.

Darkness exerts it's greatest strength as a result of a light happening. It follows that if one is seeking the light all we have to do is look for where there is the greatest darkness. Where there is the most evil then those people obviously must be spiritually advanced and in preparation for a 'light happening'.

I can only conclude from this that if Nigeria is not the most advanced place on earth then surely it must rank in the top tier of spiritually advanced people. Please you cannot dispute that.

@ pastor or whatever you call yourself,
you are getting this wrong and i can see that you are not ready to assimilate anything new from what you have already in your hands. So let the matter rest, the will of the father will judge each one according to his works

@justcool
Thanks for a wonderful clearification. Indeed you threw alot of light on the situation for me.
It all makes sense now, even the issue of Judas betraying Jesus. They have always taught me that it was God's will that Judas should betray Jesus. But I keep asking, "if so, why then was Judas cursed for betraying Jesus?" But now I know that it was not God's will but Lucifers will. The issue of man possesing free will answers a lot of question.
The way I see it is this, if an enemey is about to land in Abuja airport, then the Nigerian millitery will move towards the airpot to attack the enemy. I take the jews and the Germans to represent the airport. When Jesus was born among the jews, the enemy or the devil moved towards the jews to fight Jesus. I belive, like you said that lucifer was trying to win over the disciples. And I think thats why the bible said that Jesus once said to Peter, "get behind me satan." Indeed satan was trying to use peter.

I will be at starbucks coffee today, and I hope I will see you there. I havent seen you in a while, why?

@enitan2002
Thanks also for a wondeful clearification. I think you amswered all the questions that Justcool gave to me as a food for thought. It makes a lot of sense, considering all the powers that the Germans possed at that time. One thing that is striking to me is how people find it imposible to be indifrent towards the jews and also the Germans. Everywhere you see a jew, there always poeple hating them extrememly and people loving them extremely. i think about things like antisemitanisim, and expressions like, "jew man" and I wonder why the jews deserve so much hatrade. And I think the same thing is happening to Germans. Even the history channel spend most of the time anaylzing the second world war, Hitler, Nazi, all these things have to do with Germany. Indeed there was a terrible power in Germany during the time of the second world war.
Putting your post and Justcools post together really answers the question.
Also, I want you to know that I am reading the Grail Message, but I am not done yet.

@Pastor AIO

Pastor AIO:

I've heard that argument before. According to Fela Kuti Nigeria is the most Spiritually advanced place in the world and that is why there is so much Corruption.

I dont think that's exactly what justcool meant. I dont think justcool and fela are saying the same thing.
But anyway sha, we all see things our own way.

@ seeklove,
i'm so happy to hear that you are exmaining the message, my prayer is that more strength will be given to you in your seeking and also the power needed to live according to the message.
So many things will become clearer to you since you've started on the right track.
More Revelation will come your way soon

@justcool
i am still waiting to see why the likes of Hitler and Nazism was found among the poeple "who are spiritually developed enough to receive Abd-ru-shin. And in an environment that will allow Him to fulfill His task."
M_nwankwo please answere, or is Justcool wrong?

I completely agree with the detailed answer of Justcool. His submission is in accord with the Truth. There is nothing to add. Stay blessed!

I miss those days when justcool, m_nwankwo, pilgrim 1 and other interesting posters were active on Nairaland.
I go back to threads like this and read it over and over again, since today there is hardly anything intsressting in the religion forum.

I wondwer
Justcool, m_nwankwo, pilgrim 1 and ematan2002 where are you guys? Have guys retaired from Nairaland? I miss you guys please comeback.

@ seeklove, am always still here. How far have u gone with the message?

Hi all,i've been following the contributions of crossbearers on this and other threads,and i must say that i'm highly impressed with their posjings especially my friend m_nwankwo who has demonstrated maturity,consistency and objectivity in answering issues without being lured into any intellectual sophistry.As a crossbearer my self i've always send thankful prayers to the Most High for the grace of coming across the Message.The first lecture already clearly address the question of whom the Message is intended for regardless of religion,race and level of education,and so the best advice one can give is that each individual should examine it himself objectively.Peace to all.

enitan2002:

@ seeklove, am always still here. How far have u gone with the message?

@enitan2002
It is really nice to hear from you. I have finished reading the message, but I keep reading some chapters over and over again. I am now convinced of it valitidy.

I used to meet justcool in a book/coffe shop here in Los angeles and we discussed a lot about the message, but at the moment I am not in Los Angles and I havent seen him in a while.

But I keep reading the message because I am now convinced of thrut.

Wow, i have read the whole of this thread and i must say its a brilliant debate.

Very interesting, the suggestions on Hitler's real role in History.

seeklove:

@ Pastor AIO
Your ignorance is outstanding. No amount of rubissh from you will justify you calling Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. And you dared comeback and claimed that you never called them bad.
Its like saying that sombody stole from you and then at the same time saying that that person is not a thief. You may not have used the word "bad" but you infered it!.
I don't know your level of education but your ignorance is astunding! Germany exsisted even during the time of the roman empire. I think the romans refered to them as Gull. Read Julius Ceacer's "gullic wars". The German empire was formed in 18 January 1871. They became a republic in 23 May 1949. But before the empire, Germany had been in exisitance for decades of years. I repeat, Germany is older than America which was born in July 4, 1776. America got their indepence from Great Britain. Germany got their indepence from the roman empire, just like Great Britain. At first they were called the Holy Roman empire, which was formed in 962.

Man get your facts right!

It's been a year and I was so knocked out by the above that it's taken me a whole year to get together to respond.

I believe that the Holy Roman Empire is not Germany. In fact the Holy Roman Empire still exists today and it is called Austria. Before then it was a massive empire that covered most of western Europe and was created by a guy call Charlemagne. The Gauls were a tribe in Europe that spread from France to parts of Germany. HRE (holy roman empire) was set up by Charlemagne who was a Frank. The Franks were another tribe that lived in France (guess were the name France comes from) and what is today called Germany. Europe was full of so many different tribes. To call any of them the German nation sounds ludicrous to me, but then as you say, my 'ignorance is astunding!'. Perhaps it was just out-stunned -ed.

Mind you America has existed as long as Europe and it has had inhabitants for as long too. the Mohicans, The Mohawk, the Iroquois, the Maya etc. Does their existence mean that the US and Mexico existed before the Roman Empire? And . . . Germany did not win independence from the Roman empire to become the Holy Roman Empire. The western part of the Roman empire had already fallen to the Visigoths and the Vandals so the german tribes and all the other european tribes were already free in blissful barbarity. Centuries after the fall of Rome (Rome fell a few years after adopting christianity, so we are looking at the 4th century) the Pope colluded with a Frankish Prince called Charlemagne to create another empire. This was in the 10th century.

I hope that this history lesson is of use to all who read it and were not aware of these facts in the first place. Please check these facts and get back to me to tell me if I 'got my facts right' this time and previously.

ps. This statement

generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else.

is not a value statement. Calling something 'bad' is a value statement. If there is a line of inference that links the two then it exists solely in the head of the person making the inference.

@PastorAIO: « #32 on: October 10, 2008, 02:33 PM »

Hey I don't want to sound like a racist. But I suppose I need to know what the criteria are by which I am told that the Germans were the most spiritually capable of getting God's truth. What qualities made them the most spiritual people?

I also do not think that Jesus came to the Jewish because they were the most spiritually advanced. Far from it. And the bible (which I accept you don't take as true) says otherwise

Will the bolded not be going against the grains of the statement of Jesus where he said "I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who are the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who are in the hosue of Israel? Are anyone apart from the 12 nations of the Children of Israel? I dont think so.

Can a single soul be both and is there a need for God to have a son, like man who needs this in order to further his presence on earth and among creations, until God brings upon Judgement day, the hour that Jesus and others before him and Muhammad (AS) after him, including Jibril's confession about it, do not know?

The lack of knowledge of the time of this Hour is enough to indicate that these entities are not part of God in any authority, except His errant personalities, each serving as servant his purpose between God and man! Why cheapen God's Uniqueness by associating Him with His creation as a father to any of them? You have no authority and it is the saying of your own desire!

olabowale:

@PastorAIO: « #32 on: October 10, 2008, 02:33 PM »  Will the bolded not be going against the grains of the statement of Jesus where he said "I was not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who are the lost sheep of the house of Israel? Who are in the hosue of Israel? Are anyone apart from the 12 nations of the Children of Israel? I dont think so.

I think that post you quoted said God did not choose the people of Israel BECAUSE THEY WERE THE MOST SPIRITUALLY ADVANCED. He never claimed he couldn't have chosen the people of Israel, just that the reason was not because they were all that and a bag of chips, spiritually.

olabowale:

Can a single soul be both and is there a need for God to have a son, like man who needs this in order to further his presence on earth and among creations, until God brings upon Judgement day, the hour that Jesus and others before him and Muhammad (AS) after him, including Jibril's confession about it, do not know?

The lack of knowledge of the time of this Hour is enough to indicate that these entities are not part of God in any authority, except His errant personalities, each serving as servant his purpose between God and man! Why cheapen God's Uniqueness by associating Him with His creation as a father to any of them? You have no authority and it is the saying of your own desire!

Why should God need a prophet, why not just reveal himself to everyone and make life easier?  The core of this is that why should God NEED to do anything in the first place? God's need for a son is no less ridiculous, IMO, than his need for his messenger, a church, mosque, to get his ass caressed, and to threaten humanity, that he loves dearly, with some future final judgement. It is that he NEEDS single individuals to carry his message across the world , especially when it can't be done without warfare and loss of innocent lives that is ridiculous.

Your beef is that God can only have messengers and not sons? Why limit your great God to what makes "sense" to your human mind? You choose one way to limit God's decision making capabilities over another, and want the world to agree that your preferred method of God's revelation is better than someone else's? I'm not sure I understand what exactly your point is. . .if I'm missing something please explain. . .

seeklove:

I miss those days when justcool, m_nwankwo, pilgrim 1 and other interesting posters were active on Nairaland.
I go back to threads like this and read it over and over again, since today there is hardly anything intsressting in the religion forum.

I wondwer
Justcool, m_nwankwo, pilgrim 1 and ematan2002 where are you guys? Have guys retaired from Nairaland? I miss you guys please comeback.

Seeklove.
I'm still here but just observing. In most of the threads in this forum, I have nothing to contribute. I try to only contribute in threads that deal with serious and meaningful issues, and why my contribution will have an effect.

I will use this opportunity to say "Hi" to the posters on this thread, especially to "Deep Sight" who asked a very important question to m_nwankwo in another thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=329171.msg4617627#msg4617627. I could hardly stay away from posting on that thread but I had to because m_nwankwo correctly answered your question. I hope you quest is not just out of curiosity, but genuine seeking. I wish you strength!!!!

Regards to Pilgrim 1, m_nwankwo, enitan2002, olabowale, Pastor AIO, and etc.
Keep up the good work and lets not tire on our quest towards the light.

@ justcool,
nice also to know you are still here.


@ all,
Does anyone know the reason why the MOSLEMS dont beleive JESUS is the son of GOD?

This is simply the reason.

During the time when Jesus was with the disciple, he let them know of his status that he's the son of GOD. But the disciples understand him not. Cos Jesus speaks not in an earthly sense but of the spiritual, and since the disciples are not really well matured in the spiritual sense, they understood the word SON OF GOD in an earthly sense.
Jesus do tell them then, that he would have loved to teach them lot of things but they wouldnt understand them then.

So when jesus left the face of the earth, and the time for early christianity, there was a lot of wrong paasage of the status of the word SON OF GOD, and also since MOHAMMED whom also came from the spiritual world, he couldnt agree with the way of understanding the Xtian missionaries had about the word SON, that was when he came out to say that GOD is ONE, no one conceive him not and he didnt conceive any son. He explained that too in an earthly sense. But in the spiritual sense, he himself knew the status of JESUS. But his disciples will also understand him not too.
Even the JEWS during the time of MUHAMMED dont even beleive in JESUS, till this very moment.

seeklove: @ Pastor AIO
Your ignorance is outstanding. No amount of rubissh from you will justify you calling Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. And you dared comeback and claimed that you never called them bad.

I stand by the 'unsentimental' and add that far from making them bad it is what gives them their strength in ways that the British don't have.

seeklove:
I don't know your level of education but your ignorance is astunding! Germany exsisted even during the time of the roman empire. I think the romans refered to them as Gull. Read Julius Ceacer's "gullic wars". The German empire was formed in 18 January 1871. They became a republic in 23 May 1949. But before the empire, Germany had been in exisitance for decades of years. I repeat, Germany is older than America which was born in July 4, 1776. America got their indepence from Great Britain. Germany got their indepence from the roman empire, just like Great Britain. At first they were called the Holy Roman empire, which was formed in 962.

Pastor AIO:


I believe that the Holy Roman Empire is not Germany. In fact the Holy Roman Empire still exists today and it is called Austria. Before then it was a massive empire that covered most of western Europe and was created by a guy call Charlemagne. The Gauls were a tribe in Europe that spread from France to parts of Germany. HRE (holy roman empire) was set up by Charlemagne who was a Frank. The Franks were another tribe that lived in France (guess were the name France comes from) and what is today called Germany. Europe was full of so many different tribes. To call any of them the German nation sounds ludicrous to me, but then as you say, my 'ignorance is astunding!'. Perhaps it was just out-stunned -ed.

Mind you America has existed as long as Europe and it has had inhabitants for as long too. the Mohicans, The Mohawk, the Iroquois, the Maya etc. Does their existence mean that the US and Mexico existed before the Roman Empire? And . . . Germany did not win independence from the Roman empire to become the Holy Roman Empire. The western part of the Roman empire had already fallen to the Visigoths and the Vandals so the german tribes and all the other european tribes were already free in blissful barbarity. Centuries after the fall of Rome (Rome fell a few years after adopting christianity, so we are looking at the 4th century) the Pope colluded with a Frankish Prince called Charlemagne to create another empire. This was in the 10th century.

I hope that this history lesson is of use to all who read it and were not aware of these facts in the first place. Please check these facts and get back to me to tell me if I 'got my facts right' this time and previously.

Seeklove and I posted some historical inaccuracies there. Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman Emperor on christmas day 800AD not in the 10th century like I said.

Germany, or more accurately, the lands beyond the Rhine river and the Danube river was never under the rule of the roman empire. This was called the land of the Barbarians and was inhabited by savage germanic tribes. These peoples poured westward into the Roman empire after it weakened and could no longer keep them out. That brought about the end of the western Roman empire. Gaul, present day France, was within the Roman empire as was Britain (up to Hadrian's wall). Quite rightly Julius Caesar conquered Gaul and made it part of Roman empire.

seeklove: @ Pastor AIO
Your ignorance is outstanding. No amount of rubissh from you will justify you calling Germans generally cold and unsentimental temperament that values might and power above all else. And you dared comeback and claimed that you never called them bad.

I stand by the 'unsentimental' and add that far from making them bad it is what gives them their strength in ways that the British don't have.

seeklove:
I don't know your level of education but your ignorance is astunding! Germany exsisted even during the time of the roman empire. I think the romans refered to them as Gull. Read Julius Ceacer's "gullic wars". The German empire was formed in 18 January 1871. They became a republic in 23 May 1949. But before the empire, Germany had been in exisitance for decades of years. I repeat, Germany is older than America which was born in July 4, 1776. America got their indepence from Great Britain. Germany got their indepence from the roman empire, just like Great Britain. At first they were called the Holy Roman empire, which was formed in 962.

Pastor AIO:


I believe that the Holy Roman Empire is not Germany. In fact the Holy Roman Empire still exists today and it is called Austria. Before then it was a massive empire that covered most of western Europe and was created by a guy call Charlemagne. The Gauls were a tribe in Europe that spread from France to parts of Germany. HRE (holy roman empire) was set up by Charlemagne who was a Frank. The Franks were another tribe that lived in France (guess were the name France comes from) and what is today called Germany. Europe was full of so many different tribes. To call any of them the German nation sounds ludicrous to me, but then as you say, my 'ignorance is astunding!'. Perhaps it was just out-stunned -ed.

Mind you America has existed as long as Europe and it has had inhabitants for as long too. the Mohicans, The Mohawk, the Iroquois, the Maya etc. Does their existence mean that the US and Mexico existed before the Roman Empire? And . . . Germany did not win independence from the Roman empire to become the Holy Roman Empire. The western part of the Roman empire had already fallen to the Visigoths and the Vandals so the german tribes and all the other european tribes were already free in blissful barbarity. Centuries after the fall of Rome (Rome fell a few years after adopting christianity, so we are looking at the 4th century) the Pope colluded with a Frankish Prince called Charlemagne to create another empire. This was in the 10th century.

I hope that this history lesson is of use to all who read it and were not aware of these facts in the first place. Please check these facts and get back to me to tell me if I 'got my facts right' this time and previously.

Seeklove and I posted some historical inaccuracies there. Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman Emperor on christmas day 800AD not in the 10th century like I said.

Germany, or more accurately, the lands beyond the Rhine river and the Danube river was never under the rule of the roman empire. This was called the land of the Barbarians and was inhabited by savage germanic tribes. These peoples poured westward into the Roman empire after it weakened and could no longer keep them out. That brought about the end of the western Roman empire. Gaul, present day France, was within the Roman empire as was Britain (up to Hadrian's wall). Quite rightly Julius Caesar conquered Gaul and made it part of Roman empire.

I found the contributions of justcool and m_nwankwo very refreshing to my spirit. Wow.

Ndipe:

1. Grail adherents should first prove that God exists in the form they express "him".
In effect, they should first prove that the creator is not also the creation.
That is, to prove that nature is not the same as God.

If they propose that for something to exist, it must have been created, for something to have been created, there must have been a creator. Cool, since the creator exists, who created the creator? who is the creator's creator.

This will lead to an infinite recursion which makes no sense.


2. Then we can go into looking at if Jesus is God, the son of God, or just a wise philosopher who could do a few "miracles" like some pastors of today do.

This is impossible to establish because,
First, the existence of God has to be established.
Then the form of God has to be established.
We can then establish that the form of God is a "he" that can impregnate a virgin and have a kid who is itself again (God the son)

3. Then they have to proceed to establish the existence of the devil, and existence of garden of Eden and proof that first man(adam) was a white skin born somewhere in the middle east as painted by the Abrahamic Religions. There is a stiff opposition here because science has strong evidence that early man appeared somewhere in Kenya.
Emphasis on the 'strong'.

If these can be established, then i can accept the grail message and preach to anyone to do so.

Otherwise, they should just living in assumptions made by a man who wrote a book using clever words and called it the grail message.

Many taught by deceiving spirits claim to be speaking on their own authority, say they believe in Jesus but the Bible did not present him correctly. The REAL author of grail message and the REAL author of the Qur'an are the same. Just that the messengers have different methods to achieve the same mission.

mnwankwo:


The Grail Message do not draw from the bible as you seem to suggest. First I mentioned that the reference to Grail Message is the TRUTH. That implies that wherever is the Truth will be found in the Grail Message. If there are Truth in the bible, in any other sacred text, in science etc, you will find that in the Grail Message. When such happens, there are two possible explanations: one is that the author got his authority from these sources which seems to be your persuation. The other possibility is that the author knows the Truth and as such what is true in the bible will be found in the Grail Message. My persuation is of the later. The Ten Commandments and the Lords Prayer are the Truth and that is why you find it in the Grail Message. Therefore the ten commandments and the lords prayer were drawn from the Truth, that is they were drawn from GOD. Moses who was the instrument that God used to make the ten commandments available to mankind drew from the Truth and Jesus who gave mankind the the Lords prayer also drew from the Truth. In most  cultures people have noted that yam gives yam, tomatoes gives tomatoes. If Abdrushin then says that you reap what you sow, does it mean he drew the knowlewdge that yam gives rise to yam from these cultures? Certainly not. 



Not at all in my view. These lectures are drawn from the Truth. The Grail Message is a continuation and consolidation of the message of Jesus, the son of God. Therefore the Grail Message discusses in detail the teachings of Jesus, the son of God. The teachings of Jesus can be found in the TRUTH, in God and that is from where ABDRUSHIN draw his message.



Abdrushin drew from the Truth. The events of Golgotha is indelibly written in the book of life, that is the living law of God. Not just the event of Golgotha. In the book series titled transmitted writings, Abdrushin permitted blessed ones to document the mankind spiritual history from the very beginnig to the end. You may have to read books titled, past eras aweaken vols 1, 2, 3, From past Millenia and the Forerunner book series.



The prophecies are again written in the book of life, the living law of God. He did not draw from the bible or any other book. He draw from out of himself, from the Truth. My perception is that Abdrushin saw the begining, the development and the end and thus he has personal knowledge of the events he is describing. Abdrushin even gave where the star of Bethlehem originated, its course and development. Are all these just interpretations of the star of Bethlehem? I wonder. Besides the prophecy of the star of betlehem was known to Zoroaster and his followers. I recommend that you  read another transmitted writing " Zoroaster- Life and work of the Forerunner in Persia" You can also check out this book from Amazon "Tom Kay- When the Comet Runs."



My dear sister Pilgrim, the Grail Message drew from the eternal Truth. What ever prophecies or events that has happened or will happen is written in the book of life. It is possible to go backward or forward and draw from Time, from the laws of God what was, what is, what is to come. Stay blessed.

The Son of God and The Son of Man are the same and to Him the Father has committed all jugdement-- not the Holy Spirit-- ACCORDING TO JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD HIMSELF.

In JOHN 5:24-29a Jesus said:
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. 28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out..." (NIV)

Every author that does not speak in line with the how the Bible interprets itself-- having been written by through several authors by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit-- that author is a liar, even if an honest but deceived one.

justcool:
@chus-ben

Thanks for bringing up this issue. I will start by clarifying something. There is nothing like a member of the Grail Message. The Grail Message is not a religion, neither is it a cult nor a sect. The Grail message is a book written by Abd-ru-shin, a book which answers all questions concerning existence, -man, creation, Jesus, God, and etc. People who have read the book and adhere to its principles are called adherents of the Grail message. There are adherents who decide to get sealed, the sealed one is given a cross which he/she wears; such an adherent is called a cross bearer. Being a cross bearer does not make one a member of any religion, movement or cult. The obligation which comes from the sealing is simply between the individual and God. There are also adherents who decide not to get sealed. There are adherents who still remain in their present churches.
Some cross bearers come together to form a movement, whose main purpose is to distribute the work "In The Light of Truth," to make the book available to any body, and also to provide centers where cross bearers can come and worship God on sundays. They also conduct public lectures  explaining the principles of the Grail Message. Such movements, i.e the Grail Movement of America, the Grail Movement of Nigeria, and etc are not religions.

The author of the Grail Message never wished to found a new religion.

Now about the son of Man.
In creation God(WHO is one) expresses HIMSELF in three persons: God the Father, the son of God, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the creative will of God out of whom creation came into existence. He is the arm through which God created. Hence, "And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." (Genesis 1:2). This Holy Spirit or the Spirit of God is not just a force but a person, just like Jesus. Just as Jesus is the love of God, Imanuel is the Holy Spirit. A part of Him remains at the highest point in creation as the king of Creation; it is only in the radiation of this part of Imanuel could creation come into being. He is both the King of Creation -- ruler of the world-- and also the Judge, since all the laws of creation, including the law of sowing and reaping, issued out of Him. He is the living Justice of God. It is Him(The Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, or the Spirit of Truth) that will judge the earth when the earth reaches the time appointed for it to be judged. Like I already said, A part of this Spirit of God(Imanuel) remains at the summit of Primodial Spiritual Planes. Beneath the Primodial Spiritual Planes lies the spiritual planes, the lowest part of which is the true home of man. He is the part of Imanuel that is anchored in Creation, and being a part of Imanuel, He is identical to Imanuel which means God with us. Imanuel is the hand through which God created man. He is the son of God out of which man was created, the eternal mediator between man and God. Hence, the son of man.


But mankind living on earth disobeyed God and by the incitements of Lucifer, they became sinners. By living sinfully they shut out the light of God and brought destruction to everything on earth. The weight of their sins was so much that it diverted the earth from its normal course. The earth started heading towards destruction, if God had not intervened the earth will get destroyed before the time appointed for its judgement. When the earth was about to fall into ruins due to the sins of man, out of HIS love God intervened by sending a part of HIS love to the earth. This love of God sent to the earth to salvage the earth is Jesus. Jesus' innermost core is Divine, i.e His innermost core is God, unlike we humans whose innermost core is only spiritual. Thus Jesus is the son of God, the first begotten of the dead, i.e the first sent to mankind who were dead spiritually. While the Holy Spirit is the living Justice of God, Jesus is the living Love of God. Through Jesus, God redeemed the earth which would have fallen into destruction like Sodom and Gomorrah had Jesus not come. Through Jesus, Divine light entered the earth once more, strengthening everything. The earth received enough light and strength for it to continue till the appointed judgement time. After His mission, Jesus returned back to the Divine plane, to God the Father or at the side of God the father. Therefore eventhough Jesus is the son of God, Jesus remains in the Divine shere with God. Hence, Jesus is the inborn son of God. While the Holy Spirit is the out born son of God. 

Eventhough Jesus saved the earth from destruction, mankind did not completely understand Jesus when He was on earth, because mankind had separated themselves so much from God due to their sins. Thus when Jesus the son of God who carried Divine Truth and Divine Light came down on earth, mankind who are too enveloped in darkness could not completely understand or comprehend Him. Hence "And the light shines in darkness, and the darkness comprehends it not."(John 1:5)

Besides, mankind at the time of Jesus were too underdeveloped in their understanding, hence Jesus could not tell them everything. Hence "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:, " (John 16: 12-13)

Since mankind did not understand Jesus and therefore Jesus did not tell them everything, Jesus promised the disciples that when the Judge comes to judge the earth, He(the judge) will teach them all things. This judge is the Holy Spirit who is a person like Jesus. It is Him that Jesus also refer to the son of man. Jesus is the son of God, while Immanuel the Holy Spirit is the son of man.

One of the utterances of Jesus that some of the disciples did not understand is the prophecy of the coming of the son of man, the Holy spirit or Immanuel. He is the second envoy of God to the earth. Even in the Old testament, His coming was prophesied. But the disciples, along with the early Christians mixed everything up into one. They mistook the son of man to be the same as son of God Jesus. In the parts of the bible where the sayings of Jesus are accurately passed down, one can see that He was not talking of Himself when He talked about the son of man or the Holy Spirit. In some parts of the bible where the words were not passed down correctly, only there do we see the two distinct persons confused as one.

One of the prophecies was rightly passed down in the gospel of John. From the gospel of John we read:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16, 12-15)

In the above you can see that Jesus was talking about a person, not just a force, neither was He talking about the power that the apostles received on the Pentecost day. A force or a power cannot speak, hear, neither can a force or power take something and shew it unto you. Only a person can do all these things. Therefore in the above verse Jesus was talking about another envoy that God will send to the earth just as God sent Jesus.

In another verse correctly passed down, Jesus called this envoy the comforter: we read:

"But the comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the father shall send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you"(John 14,20).

He is called the comforter because his teaching, which is the same original teaching of Jesus will bring comfort to those who live by it. And since He is the judge, in his Judgement the righteous will find comfort.

In another verse we read:
"Whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words , , of him also shall the son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels." (Mark 8, 38).

In the above verse you can clearly see that Jesus was not the son of man.

What the disciples received on the Pentecost is only the power of the Holy Spirit and not the Holy Spirit Himself. You can only receive power, but it is impossible for a humanbeing to receive another humanbeing literally. Jesus promised the disciples that they will receive the power of the Holy Spirit and not the Holy Spirit Himself, Whom will come in person on earth as Jesus promised in Mark 8,38.

In Luke we read:

"And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high." (Luke 24,49)

Here we see that what they received in Jerusalem on Pentecost was the power from on high, not the the Holy Spirit Himself who is a person and not just a power.

Isaiah's prophesy:

"So the Lord himself will give you this sign: A virgin will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and she will name him Immanuel [God Is With Us].
(Isaiah 7,14)(Gods word Translation Bible)

The prophesy above refers to the birth of Immanuel not Jesus. Mathew mistakingly attributed it to Jesus. Jesus was never called Immanuel. Immanuel means "God with us", "God with man"; while Jesus means "God saves,"or "God the saviour."
You see these are two different names signifying two different persons with two different roles.

In another part of the gospel of Mathew we read:

" And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins."(Mathew 1, 21)

This is the prohpecy concerning Jesus. Here we see the real name of Jesus and his role or task. Jesus and Immanuel are two different persons.

In conclusion:
Jesus is the son of God. The love or God. The first sent to earth to awaken mankind who was spiritually dead, Hence "the first begotten of the dead".  His name is Jesus which means "God saves"
God is in Him and He is one with God. Jesus Judges no body. He is the Living love of God. He remains in the divine plane as the inborn son of God.

The son of Man is also a son of God like Jesus. His name is Immanuel which means "God with us(man)." He is called the son of man because He is the hand through which God created man, and a part of Him remains in the Grail Castle at the summit of the Primodial Spiritual planes. Thus He is the God that remains with man(us), hence "God with us."  He is the Holy Spirit(Holy Ghost), Spirit of God or the Spirit of Truth whose power created everything. He is the executive Judge, who will judge all the creations of God at their appointed times. He is the Living Justice of God. It is He who, out of his laws, pays everybody his/her due payment, i.e, comfort to the broken hearted or the righteous. In His laws the evil and sinful ones will also receive their due payment, which is destruction. Hence, whoever sins or blasphemes against the Holy Spirit shall never be forgiven or go free. Each sinner must pay the price of his/her sins.
As in Jesus, God is also in Immanuel and He(Immanuel) is also one with God.

God Himself or God the father (Divinity unsubstantiate) He resides far above all the worlds, far above all creations. Paradise or the Spiritual palne is the highest plane in creation. But God the Father is far above Paradise. A part of the son of man who is The Spirit of Truth or Immanuel is in the highest part of Paradise as the judge and the ruler(prince) of the world(creation)
Jesus is in the Divine plane with God, although He is personal. He is as ruler(prince) in the Divine plane. This is His kingdom; hence, "my kingdom is not of the world." The "world" in this context means the whole creation, from Paradise to the earth. When Jesus spoke of the coming of the ruler of the world(creation), He was speaking of the comming of the son of man. In John 14:30, we read:

"I will not talk with you much longer, because the ruler of this world is coming. He has no power over me."

or in another translation of the verse we read:

"I will not now speak many things with you. For the prince of this world cometh, and in me he hath not any thing."

This means Jesus did not say every thing because men could not understand Him, but in the end times when ruler(prince) of the world(creation) comes He(the ruler/prince) will say the rest. The ruler(prince) who will come to bring judgement will come in the end times when men whould have developed enough to understand everything. This is why He(the ruler/prince) will be able to say everything, even things that Jesus did not say. The last part of the verse, "He has no power over me," shows that like the ruler(prince) of the world, Jesus is also a King. And therefore there is no power above Him. Both are of equall authority because they are both sons of God.

Also in revelation we read:

"May grace and peace be yours from the one who is, who was, and who is coming, from the seven spirits who are in front of his throne,and from Jesus the Messiah, the witness, the faithful one, the firstborn from the dead,, "(Rev.1:4-5)

In the above we see three different people.
Person #1 = the one who is, who was, and who is coming.
Person #2 = Jesus the Messiah, the witness, the faithful one, the firstborn from the dead
Person #3 = The seven spirits at the Throne.(we are not concerened with these)


Person #1 --Ths is the son of man(Immanuel, the Holy Spirit,or the Spirit of Truth). This cannot be God the father because God the father cannot come to the earth. The earth cannot carry Him. If this were God the father, then He would not be discribed as "who is coming"

Person #2 --This is Jesus Himself, since the verse simply says from Jesus the messiah.

Therefore God has two sons:
1.) Immanuel(son of man, the Spirit of Truth, or the Holy Spirit) who is, who was, who is comming.
2.) Jesus(son of God) who is the Messiah, the lamb.

Along with God the father, they make up the trinity.

Althrough revelation we keep hearing of the two sons of God, i.e "Him who sits on the Throne", and "the lamb". Niether of them is God the father because God the father can not be seen. Even the writer of revelation can never see God.  Hence: "No one has ever seen God."(1 John 4:12)

This is the trinity of God. However God remains one; the son, the  Holy Spirit, and God the father are all one, yet three different persons. And there is only one God in all of them.






All that I have written above is my perception of the Grail Message concerning the issue of the Son of Man. The references to Biblical verses are solely mine, the Grail Message does not draw from the Bible.
It draws from the purest source, from God HIMSELF.
I advice every reader of my post above to read and examine the Grail message himself.

Thanks.