Christianity supports Immorality and Injustice.

I have studied a lot of christian doctrines, and I can now confirm that while christians are told to avoid immorality in their holy scriptures, they also are taught to ignore restitution for such sins and instead believe in a most fraudulent doctrine of total atonement of sin by believing in the grace the blood of Jesus brings to them. Thus, according to christianity, just believing in Jesus redeems you, and you will enter heaven even if you commit the most heinous crimes.

I will like other people to confirm that my views about christianity are correct, and ask christians themselves to state the position of christianity on morality, and if retialation is a sin.

Thanks @Ajia23 for that! You know, I often used to wonder why many of my Christian friends told me that all sins are equal!!! Hellooo! Is that an attempt to lie on the claim that the blood of Jesus cleansed you off your sins? Should that be the case, I will agree with @ajia23 that a lot of questions have to be asked about their moral lives! Little wonder that the bulk of the Fornicators, Adulterers, and cons come from that religion. No matter what I do as long as I believe in Jesus, I don't have sins? Thats the problem with humans. They always like to find and easy way out of something. What a pity for these guys. What I however find ironical is the concept of the sins of the father upon the son. For instance, Isaiah 65:7
both your sins and the sins of your fathers," says the Lord . "Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains and defied me on the hills, I will measure into their laps the full payment for their former deeds." what sins? I though Christ died for our sins!
You know what, if the Christians want to claim Pacifism, let them make another version of the Bible that is free of these verses!

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die.

2 Chronicles 15:13
Whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I know their next move! Old testament! Old Testament!! right? Oh please don't give that lame excuse. Or why then is the old testament featured in your Bible? Pacifists indeed. Not only are you liars You're also rebellious to your lord who has commanded these things unto you.

Yeparipa!! Ogbeleu. Are those quotes really from the bible? Oh my God. So much for peace. Now, I am getting convinced that I was right afterall.

God is not stupid. Hes sees everybody's hearts. If a murderer comes before God and apologises with a sincere heart and starts to take a christian walk then God will forgive him. However this dosen't mean that his punishment is over, because he is still in jail. The murderer will suffer on earth but will be at peace in heaven because of his sincere heart.

Please do not make God out to be something hes not.

Just because Jesus saves you it dosen't mean you will not suffer for what you did.

I few years ago i got arrested, God forgave me but i'm still having trouble going abroad, i'm still paying the price for my sins!

Good softee, now we are getting somewhere. Now, if this murderer has a gun and intends to kill again, how do you apprehend him? By preaching to him? Or by showing him your own gun? And if he shoots at you while you are preaching to him are you going to allow him continue killing or will you shoot him to prevent him from killing? Now Since your God is not stupid, and he can allow the murderer to be jailed, then is he a good god? Why would a good god allow his followers carry guns, make atom bombs to kill other people? It is the same reason why the one true God will allow retialation-to ensure justice and fairness and order in the world. I hope you understand now?

No, the murder will not kill again. If he is going to kill again, God will not have forgiven him. Again, God is not stupid. Yes my God is a good God because the murderer is paying for his sin, if God was not a good God, he will let him get away with it. God knows what hes doing.

I also do not like the way we are talking of God, like he is one of his, he CREATED us, never can our human minds understand him, unless filled with the holy spirit in which you can speak tongues to God.

Please try and understand me. You see a murderer in the act of killing. You want to CATCH him, he is holding an AK-47 rifle. You have a gun too. You tell him to drop the gun because you are police. He refuses and shoots at you. How are you going to stop him from killing again?

ajia23,

Your level of understanding and triviality amazes me. You must be having fun wallowing in your ignorance, and it seems to me that you are not here for answers but to vomit your vile resentment.

If you indeed want answers, I'll give them to you. But so far, I don't want to cut your fun short. Take a few more laughs, maybe it will help cleanse some darkness over you which confusion has brought.

OlaAjia,

You need to understand that Isreal, as potrayed in the Old Testament is a Theocratic State. That means that God is the Kind, law giver and judge (that is where democracy hails from).

In other words, God has a right like every secular Governmet to prescribe laws for the good of the society. These laws were promulgated just as we have in the U.S, for instance where the death penalty is the punishment for some crime. It is not the perogative of any member of the society to kill another for such crimes. Such people have to be judged first, then the society takes the appropriate action through legislated authority.

If you care to read through the Book of Joshua, we find a situation where someone broke God's law and had to be stoned. No one did that until the guy was judged and the appropriate authority sanctioned the death.

Worshiping another god apart from Jehoveh was high treason to say the least, and that meant death.

But when it comes to our personal relationships with others, LOVE is the keyword and the attributes are found in 1 Cornthians 13 if you care to read it.

Your accusations against Christians should perhaps be directed at Jesus whom your Qu'ran esteems. Why didn't He encourage the sroning of the woman caught in adultery? Why didn't he respond 'fire for fire' against the Roman Soldiers? Perhaps you have more to learn from Him than your Qu'ran will want you to know.

Love is a greater force than revenge.

TayoD
Nice personal attack. However, that will not distract me as I am not Ajisafe. I have some questions for you.

The God of Israel that allows them to carry out those killings, is he wicked? Also, Is he the same God as the God of christianity? If he is, did he change? When you talk about governements and organised societies, you speak as if those are the monopolies held by non-muslims. In Islam, personal attacks are strictly forbidden, and only a government can carry out Islamic judgements.

You talk of Jesus not allowing the woman to be stoned, but you will agree with me that he did not come to set aside the law, but rather to point out the hypocrisy of those Jews who wanted to stone her. At least you stated in another post that Jesus did not come to set aside the law right? So your argument on that score is implausible.

Ofcourse Love is greater than revenge, and in Islam, we are encouraged to forgive, but we are not barred from demanding retialation. So, you need to try harder to show that truly, pacifism as enshrined in your holy doctrines is better than a society held together by punishment as a deterrent to crime. Until you do this, please take my advice and hit back if someone hits you.

ajia23,

Unfortunately, I am a little busy now and can't stay much longer online, but I'll give you some answers.

I have told you over and over that Christianity encourages punishment of law-breakers through the agency of Government. So why do you have to keep making this unfounded statement?

The law has never perfected anyone. It is love and grace that does which God brought through Jesus Christ. As harsh as you may think the Old Testmanet laws were (which were given through the theocratic government of the day), people still committed all manner of attrocities. The Bible testifies that though thousands of Isrealites were killed one day because of their sins, yet others followed in the same footsetps the following day. In other words, the law can not make you a God-fearing person.

Can I ask you, how will you know those wh are keeping the aw because of their love and reverence for God from those who are keeping the law because of fear of punishment? God wants the former, and you can never tell those who fall in that category until there is an enabling environment.

ajia23,

I'm sorry if you consider that a personal attack. But my picture of you at the time I was writing is exactly what I wrote down.

Much love.

No hard feelings

Allow God to determine for himself those that obey the law out of reverence, and those that obey it out of compulsion. He is omniscientand all-knowledgeable and will be able to know. Even if you do good out of compulsion in Islam, you still get reward from God, as you could still break the laws secretly. But as you said, God prefers those that obey His laws out of reverence. However, we believe that the society should also place strict constraints to ensure order. If you are half the christian you claim you are, then I am sure you would not support women to dress immorally. Now, why would you oppose a law that for instance, bans them from dressing immorally in public? If they wish, they could walk nude in their houses, but why should we allow them corrupt other weak minded individuals in public? So you see the position of Islam on the strict moral code. I slam does not erode free will, but seeks to ensure that personal free will does not compromise communal goals.

@Ajia23
BTW What is the diff between OlaAjia and Ajia23? Someone must think there are idiots on this forum.
What this thread is about?

1. one man's stupendous ignorance.
2. An opportunistic attempt to deflect the controversial flak the quran and it's so-called prophet of questionable charater has recieved on other topics.

For instance, Isaiah 65:7
both your sins and the sins of your fathers," says the Lord . "Because they burned sacrifices on the mountains and defied me on the hills, I will measure into their laps the full payment for their former deeds." what sins? I though Christ died for our sins!

Are you reading the bible yet having little understanding? That scripture you quote was written in the old testament, more than 2000yrs before Christ even came to the earth to die for our sins!

In reply to your confusion on whether God requites the sins of the fathers on the children, pls read Jer 31: 29 "In those days people will no longer say,
      'The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
      and the children's teeth are set on edge.'
   30 Instead, everyone will die for his own sin; whoever eats sour grapes—his own teeth will be set on edge.

your attempt at trying to claim the Christian faith does not claim pacifism is hogwash. It is a futile attempt to try to cast christianity and islam in the same light! Christianity does not profess pacifism! There is a difference between LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF and MY RELIGION IS MINE AND YOURS IS YOURS!
God is LOVE and in almost every verse of the scripture, the theme of love resonates very soundly. Christians are not just told to LEAVE their enemies, God demands that we PRAY for them.

Christianity supports Immorality and Injustice.
I have studied a lot of christian doctrines, and I can now confirm that while christians are told to avoid immorality in their holy scriptures,

Are those statements not incongruent? How can you claim (except a confused mind!) that Christians are told to avoid immorality and yet still claim the same christianity supports immorality! Is this not an attempt to explain away the immoral nature of your own prophet? At least by trying to paint the christian faith in the same light?
Your inability to grasp the true meaning of LOVE, GRACE and FAITH which are cardinal to the christian faith but are NO WHERE to be found in the quran does not nullify their effectiveness. That your own religion DEMANDS retaliation, promotes hatred in the name of restitution, does not mention love and has no place for grace is not the fault of the bible!

Well, thank God you are not idiots. Ola Ajia is my brother. You still have avoided the question. Why did God allow the Israelites to kill, and then suddenly forbid it in the time of Jesus? Did God change? Did He realize He was bad before? Please answer those questions then proceed to answer the rest. I will now hand over the baton to OlaAjia as I have to go pray.

Check this.

Christianity:
Love peace. Do not retialate. Turn the other side.

Christians
I love peace. I cannot not retialate. I will not turn the other side because I am weak.


Now are these two premises congruent? No. They are not coterminous and are infact opposite. Why set standards your followers cannot meet? Is that not paying lip service? I will not steal, but I steal, what does that indicate to you? Do I support stealing? Definitely. If you want further simplification, please ask for it.

Allow God to determine for himself those that obey the law out of reverence, and those that obey it out of compulsion. He is omniscientand all-knowledgeable and will be able to know. Even if you do good out of compulsion in Islam, you still get reward from God, as you could still break the laws secretly. But as you said, God prefers those that obey His laws out of  reverence.

I get shocked when i read this kinds of misconceptions. If truly the muslim god prefers those that obey his laws out of reference why does he:
1. prohibit muslims from being converted to christianity and encourages conversion of others to islam?
2. Why does he order the "infidels" to be killed and maimed?
3. Why is he in support of Jihad and why do we have so many terrorists claiming to be killing for god?

However, we believe that the society should also place strict constraints to ensure order.

If this is true, we should expect all the northern states of Nigeria to be an example of an ordered society! We would expect Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Saudi Arabia to be epitomes of order, justice and tranquility!
Alas this is not so! The most repressive governments (bar the communists), the most repressive societies, the societies with little regard for human life and dignity to women are all to be found in those same societies that "place strict constraints to ensure order"!
Does that strict moral code also preclude watching soccer matches in somalia and selling falafel in Iraq?

If you are half the christian you claim you are, then I am sure you would not support women to dress immorally.

This is the position of the bible on this: 1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefastness and sobriety; not with braided hair, and gold or pearls or costly raiment;
No true christian family will permit their daughters to dress anyhow!

but why should we allow them corrupt other weak minded individuals in public? So you see the position of Islam on the strict moral code.

The same islam permits marrying up to or more than 4 wives with the laughable theory that you will love them all equally. The same strict moral code ensures 9 yr olds may have intercourse with 50 yr old men. what a strict moral code that also allows men to sleep with their slaves and captives!

I slam does not erode free will, but seeks to ensure that personal free will does not compromise communal goals.

Islam truly does not erode freewill? Tell that to the marines! Which communal goals? Do they also extend to christian states? If Islam really encourage freewill, what about the fatwah placed on Salman Rushdie for his book "satanic verses"? why was the Afghan govt going to kill the fellow who converted to christianity? Freewill my foot!

ajia23:

Well, thank God you are not idiots. Ola Ajia is my brother. You still have avoided the question. Why did God allow the Israelites to kill, and then suddenly forbid it in the time of Jesus? Did God change? Did He realize He was bad before? Please answer those questions then proceed to answer the rest. I will now hand over the baton to OlaAjia as I have to go pray.

Check this.

Christianity:
Love peace. Do not retialate. Turn the other side.

Christians
I love peace. I cannot not retialate. I will not turn the other side because I am weak.


Now are these two premises congruent? No. They are not coterminous and are infact opposite. Why set standards your followers cannot meet? Is that not paying lip service? I will not steal, but I steal, what does that indicate to you? Do I support stealing? Definitely. If you want further simplification, please ask for it.

This confused attempt at postulating theories should not have merited a response but then,
When the bible says, when your enemy slaps you on one cheek turn the other, it is not saying it in literal terms if not all christians should be slapped everyday!
the ultimate goal of the Christian life is to make you grow more and more like Jesus as you walk with Him, it does not say that you suddenly become strong and able to stand the very minute you are saved. The character of Christ is love and that is what He so much desires us to embody as we grow and mature in him

@TayoD,
"You need to understand that Israel, as potrayed in the Old Testament is a Theocratic State. That means that God is the Kind, law giver and judge (that is where democracy hails from)." This statement is balderdash! I don't understand a thing from it

Ajia23 has answered your posted questions, and really, I cannot answer any better than that.

@davidylan, someone must be an Idiot to think that some other person will be so Idiotic to use similar identity as a disguise, except if you are capable of doing such. I will not be surprised if you are!

My argument is not all about whether the scripture I quoted was revealed 2000 yrs B.C. My question is: Wasn't it thesame God that revealed the 2000yrs B.C. scripture that also revealed the New-testament? So was he bad then and suddenly became good after he begot Jesus(We can't attribute the qualities of God to that of man, so God never begot a son)? or what then happened to God? Concerning the sins of the father, I still take my stands Explain what happened to God after 2000yrs. Or why should the words of God contradict? is it that your god forgot what he wrote 2000yrs ago and could not help but contradict himself?
I cannot and will not even try to cast Christianity into the same light as Islam. That was what the followers of Christ suffered in the hands of pagans, The true message of Christ was altered so that the hypocritic pagans will spread their own doctrine in a way that will deceive a bulk of people, and they succeeded.I am only trying to make you see that the God of the Muslims is the God of Moses and Jesus among other prophets, as I am very aware that the old testament was culled from the Book of Moses, otherwise called the Torah. What makes you think that Muslims are not asked to pray for their enemies.
See, you're getting everything mixed up here for nothing, we are only asked to attack them when they attack us. Any way that was a good attempt to shirk the topic posted. Try harder next time!

davidylan:

This confused attempt at postulating theories should not have merited a response but then,
When the bible says, when your enemy slaps you on one cheek turn the other, it is not saying it in literal terms if not all Christians should be slapped everyday!
the ultimate goal of the Christian life is to make you grow more and more like Jesus as you walk with Him, it does not say that you suddenly become strong and able to stand the very minute you are saved. The character of Christ is love and that is what He so much desires us to embody as we grow and mature in him

Why do you select what to refer to as Parable and literal implication when the quotes of the bible cannot defend your faith. OK tell me the biblical "non-literal" implication of that verse if your claim is true. See Davidylan, you have not proved anything. You're only beating about the bush.

OlaAjia,

The Bible declares in the Book of Isaiah, that the "Lord God is our Judge, He is our lawgiver and He is our King". If you look at that scripture closely, it reveals the 3 branches of government that is the bedrock of democracy around the world today i.e. the Executive (King), the Judiciary (Judge), and the Legislature (the law giver). Do you now understand my statement?

This is why I told you before that when looking at most of the things you talked about, you need to consider them from the angle that Isreal was a theocratic state. That scripture clearly shows that.

I beg to disagree that the Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, neither is He the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. If Fatherhood and Sonship connotes only sex with you, then you just need to go beyond your carnal thoughts and think in a more elevated spiritual plain. Son of God does not mean Jesus was born of God in the sense of sexual intercourse and its attendant ramifications. Son of God means He is the second member of the Godhead who is one with the God-head in essence but dinstinguished in personality.

ajia23's submission which you hold to be the whole Gospel is just as ridiculous as it appears plausible. He claims that Jesus spared the woman caught in adultery just to show the hypocrisy of the Jews. Since when did Jesus begin to teach a truth while disobeying God's law? Jesus expressed God's mind absolutely, and God will do no different than He did if He was the one making that judgement. So what does that betoken? It means the whole truth of the ten commandments is LOVE and forgiveness. The ten commandments teaches us and let's us see how helpless we are to meet God's standard and it will only take the grace, mercy and God's love to make us acceptable to Him.

@Ola ajia

Thanks for taking the pains to obfuscate matters.
Of course i do not expect you to understand anything TayoD and i post here cos you're at present in spiritual darkness and so everythiing you see in the bible must have a literal meaning to you.

As for shirking the topic, it is either you have limited understanding of the topic or you dont really want to understand.

I am only trying to make you see that the God of the Muslims is the God of Moses and Jesus among other prophets,

Stop these ridiculous attempts at casting your god as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The same God you in another breathe claim is false and misquoted in the bible!

as I am very aware that the old testament was culled from the Book of Moses, otherwise called the Torah

How wrong can you get? So Isaiah, I and II Kings, Psalms, Song of Solomon and all but 5 of the old testament books written well after Moses death where all culled from the book of Moses?

My argument is not all about whether the scripture I quoted was revealed 2000 years B.C. My question is: Wasn't it thesame God that revealed the 2000yrs B.C. scripture that also revealed the New-testament? So was he bad then and suddenly became good after he begot Jesus(We can't attribute the qualities of God to that of man, so God never begot a son)? or what then happened to God? Concerning the sins of the father, I still take my stands Explain what happened to God after 2000yrs. Or why should the words of God contradict? is it that your God forgot what he wrote 2000yrs ago and could not help but contradict himself?

How can you understand? Where can i start to make you see the love of Christ? How can you understand grace, mercy and longsuffering? It is no atribute of your god who is all about vengeance, hate, retribution, servitude, works!
How can you understand the precious gift of God's redemption of mankind?

Why do you select what to refer to as Parable and literal implication when the quotes of the bible cannot defend your faith. OK tell me the biblical "non-literal" implication of that verse if your claim is true. See Davidylan, you have not proved anything. You're only beating about the bush.

how can you understand the symbolisms of the bible? Of course it is not some abstract form of poetry for in it is hidden the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.
No wonder Christ said "seeing the might see and not percieve, "

TayoD:

OlaAjia,

The Bible declares in the Book of Isaiah, that the "Lord God is our Judge, He is our lawgiver and He is our King". If you look at that scripture closely, it reveals the 3 branches of government that is the bedrock of democracy around the world today i.e. the Executive (King), the Judiciary (Judge), and the Legislature (the law giver). Do you now understand my statement?

So @TayoD, what has this statement got to do with the realm of this topic? no statement deserves the title OoP(Out of Point) better than the above stated.

Is: "If Fatherhood and Sonship connotes only sex with you, then you just need to go beyond your carnal thoughts and think in a more elevated spiritual plain.  Son of God does not mean Jesus was born of God in the sense of sexual intercourse and its attendant ramifications.  Son of God means He is the second member of the Godhead who is one with the God-head in essence but distinguished in personality." the answer to why: "I beg to disagree that the Allah is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, neither is He the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"?

Question: Why do you people confuse yourselves with an incomprehensible doctrine, and then claim that the ways of the lord cannot be questioned?
First of all, Jesus is the son of God, then,  Jesus is God,, then the lord God come to save mankind in the form a human being, but Jesus was not a human being. Then,  the holy spirit is the third member of Godhead and is God, then Jesus is God again, Before the supposedly crucifixion, He prayed to God "Father please remove this cup from, , " God prays to God? On the cross, "my lord my God, why hath thou forsaken me" God forsakes himself, or forsakes his son or both? Before crucifixion, Devil tempts Jesus with material things, Devil tempts God with what God has created, or even dares to tempt God atall easy way out doctrine!

Question: Why do you people confuse yourselves with an incomprehensible doctrine, and then claim that the ways of the lord cannot be questioned?
First of all, Jesus is the son of God, then, Jesus is God,, then the lord God come to save mankind in the form a human being, but Jesus was not a human being. Then, the holy spirit is the third member of Godhead and is God, then Jesus is God again, Before the supposedly crucifixion, He prayed to God "Father please remove this cup from, , " God prays to God? On the cross, "my lord my God, why hath thou forsaken me" God forsakes himself, or forsakes his son or both? Before crucifixion, Devil tempts Jesus with material things, Devil tempts God with what God has created, or even dares to tempt God atall easy way out doctrine!

you are just confused! those who do know their God shall be strong and do exploits! You obviously dont have a clue about the message of the bible. No genuine christian has a doubt in His heart about the above things you listed. I for one dont have any problems with the above. Simple reason you are confused: John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

It is funny how Nairalanders have so much abused the word 'obfuscate', that even people that are guilty of such action accuses other people of 'obfuscation', probably just for the fun of it.

My creator forbids that I be in spiritual darkness @Davidylan.
I proclaim that the God I worship is the God of Abraham, Jacob, Jesus and Moses, among other prophets, but I do not claim that I worship the same God as the Christians, for I am sure that the aforementioned prophets worshiped none but God, even your Jesus worshiped God and not himself. I'm sorry to say, many chapters in your bible are nothing but the work of man or better put, hypocrites. I don't claim that the God of the Bible is false, I claim that the developers of the Bible portrayed a false god!

davidylan:

@Ola ajia

How can you understand? Where can i start to make you see the love of Christ? How can you understand grace, mercy and longsuffering? It is no attribute of your God who is all about vengeance, hate, retribution, servitude, works!

I will tell you what. I can understand when you clear my questions. For you have spent atom weight effort trying answer my questions. They are again: Wasn't it thesame God that revealed the 2000yrs B.C. scripture that also revealed the New-testament? So was he bad then and suddenly became good after he begot Jesus(We can't attribute the qualities of God to that of man, so God never begot a son)? or what then happened to God? Concerning the sins of the father, I still take my stands Explain what happened to God after 2000yrs. Or why should the words of God contradict? is it that your God forgot what he wrote 2000yrs ago and could not help but contradict himself?

davidylan:

@Ola ajia

Thanks for taking the pains to obfuscate matters.
Of course i do not expect you to understand anything TayoD and i post here because you're at present in spiritual darkness and so everything you see in the bible must have a literal meaning to you.

As for shirking the topic, it is either you have limited understanding of the topic or you don't really want to understand.
Stop these ridiculous attempts at casting your God as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The same God you in another breathe claim is false and misquoted in the bible!
How wrong can you get? So Isaiah, I and II Kings, Psalms, Song of Solomon and all but 5 of the old testament books written well after Moses death where all culled from the book of Moses?
How can you understand? Where can i start to make you see the love of Christ? How can you understand grace, mercy and longsuffering? It is no attribute of your God who is all about vengeance, hate, retribution, servitude, works!
How can you understand the precious gift of God's redemption of mankind?
how can you understand the symbolisms of the bible? Of course it is not some abstract form of poetry for in it is hidden the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

Once again you have only spoken English! my question has been left unanswered lest you failed to see it, it was: tell me the biblical "non-literal" implication of that verse (show your other cheek when slapped) if your claim is truly non-literal. Now tell me who is obfuscating.

@davidylan,
First of all, my misrepresenting the old testament with the book of Moses was a mistake, thanks for the correction. Sorry about that! However,more questions have been raised concerning its authenticity due to your correction.

davidylan:

you are just confused! those who do know their God shall be strong and do exploits! You obviously don't have a clue about the message of the bible. No genuine Christian has a doubt in His heart about the above things you listed. I for one don't have any problems with the above. Simple reason you are confused: John 12:40
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

In as much as you try to escape my questions, I will keep reminding you that you have done little or nothing in clarifying issues. Yes davidylan, I am confused. Can you give me a reason why I should not be? I am the Head of my family, I have a son, he is also the head of the family, and my son is me, I created a spirit, and that spirit is me, so all together, we are three in one If that makes sense to you, I'm sure it wouldn't to people that use their heads. That sounds more to me like Captain America and his sidekicks preparing to fight evil forces! Don't bother replying this one. Just answer my questions first, then you can come back and reply!

ajia23

u f**king islamic retard,,,,we will beat u in ur game and make no mistake about it,,,,, u and ur brethren will fail,,,,by the time the U.S military turns the middle east into a parking lot, then u will quiver when next u hear the name "jesus". U think u guys are babaric right,,,,u think u guys know how to cut throat and blow people up right,,,,,wait in not a long time this giant will wake up and u will join ur pediophilic Mohamed in history,,,,just wait and see. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ITS FIGHTING FORCES

@emmie4j,
Na wah for you oh! You loose person for Iraq? This your venom pass me patapata.

@OlaAjia

So @TayoD, what has this statement got to do with the realm of this topic? no statement deserves the title OoP(Out of Point) better than the above stated.

If you have been following the train of my thots in response to your accusations, you would understand what my statement has to do with the topic. The statement shows clearly that Isreal was a theocratic state and you need to interprete some of God's utterances and actions in the Old Testament in that light. Please follow what has been posted here with some scholarship and not mere emotions.

And let me clear up your confusion about God visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children's children. Believe it or not, that is one of the greatest statements of God's mercy potrayed in the Bible. I'll explain. There is a man we all know called Abraham. This man served God in his generation, and up till now, his children (hundreds of generations after him) are still under God's favour because of this man's faithfulness. In other words, God promised that the effect of a man's sin will never go beyond his fourth generation but He never limited His lovingkindness to the fourth generation of the righteous. Instead, His mercy and kindness will always remain in the generation of the righteous.

If you look at other scriptures in the Bible that states this generational visit of God's wrath, you will discover that God limited it to the fourth generation and mentions afterwards that He reserves mercy for a thousand generation of those who fear Him. If this is not mercy, then I wonder what is.

I hope your eyes are now opened to see this hidden truth in God's Word and character.

emmie4j:

ajia23

u f**king islamic retard,,,,we will beat u in your game and make no mistake about it,,,,, u and your brethren will fail,,,,by the time the U.S military turns the middle east into a parking lot, then u will quiver when next u hear the name "jesus". U think u guys are babaric right,,,,u think u guys know how to cut throat and blow people up right,,,,,wait in not a long time this giant will wake up and u will join your pediophilic Mohamed in history,,,,just wait and see. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ITS FIGHTING FORCES

Oh my God, this is reminiscent of someone I have now come to miss on this site-Ajisafe. Could this be him in reincarnation? Emmie4j, now you have confirmaed to me that christians are indeed hypocritical about their claims to being peaceful. I always thought so, but never was so sure. Now, America is your war weapon, yet a lot of your brethren claim America is a secular state, now the truth is revealed . Keep it up.


They plan, but God plans and God is best of planners.

Now to all christians, when I statrted this thread, I only needed a clarification of the issue I raised, but unfortunately, I got verbose invectives from quintessential christians, while the fundamental questions have not been answered.

OlaAjia painstakingly researched the old testament, and came out with some quotes which even by Islamic standards are so barbaric, and we asked, is it the same peaceful god of the christians that actually revealed those exceedingly violent commandments? If he is , what made him have the volte-face? Please respond to this as much as you can in a calm, collected and calculated manner. Try avoiding invectives as you are wont to do. Otherwise, you are certainly allowed to take the escapist way out of these things by pretending not to see the underlying issues.
I am still waiting.

Atheists and Agnotists, I invite you to also come and contribute to this thread, may be, just maybe you will be able to justify what the christians have not been able to defend logically. Logical, I bet this is your field, please come and see the most logical explanations that can come out from the christians about their faith- You have to be in the spirit to understand it.

emmie4j,

please be civil and contribute positively to the discussion otherwise stay out.

Darkchild

Thank you, please tell these people to stop abusing muslims. They later turn around and claim we are the violent ones. the truth is there for the world to see. I would want to see what the reverend, mlks_baby, gwaine and m4malik will say to this.

Ajia23,

no mind them jaare. All the misunderstanding stems from the ignorance of not understanding Islam. How many Xtians have u met that have read the Koran. Less than a Handful.

And then like what one of them said, she reads their Bible like a story book - 'folklore' to quote her. Can u imagine!!!! 

TayoD et all, Please address the issues at hand.