I will try hard not to encourage bigotry in the future, it just happens that sometimes, in the heat of an exchange btween contending forces, it may not be out of place to slide into an 'us versus them'mood.

I understand what you stated about the American state, but going into details will expose my view point. The document which defined the Bush first term was drawn by one of his aides (I have forgotten his name now), in the name of fulfiling a biblical prophecy. That is why I stated that the secular machinery of the American state was hijacked by a conservative christian minority to achieve its own aims.

True talk about the deafening silence of the African Muslims on some terrorist acts. But you must realise that those who are opinionated do not have channels to publicise their views so that it may reach the widest audience possible.

I submit to the Sharia law willingly not as a consequence of any intimidation or fear, but out of conviction that it will help me live a fulfilled life. There are many like me.

Again you are right about the double standards thing. That is human and muslims see it and actually protest. I for one, speak out against such double standards, but it does not detract from the fact that Islam is against all such things, and if that prince were caught in an Islamic state perpetrating such acts, he will be made to face the Sharia. You just reiterated my point that those people find safe heavens in Western societies as a result of the decadence in such societies.


I want you to reply to the issues Odache raised so that I may have a very clear understanding of the seemingly glaring contradictions. You may quote the bible, but I want a summary of the lessons in the verses you quote as I am not good at interpreting the often grandiose language employed. But try and make it simple so that as a sceptic, I will have a shift in opinion at the very least. Thank you for calming down.

ajia23 some of your posts are quite interesting and nice to read

one thing you must understand is this:

people will use whatever they can (religion, morality, race, wealth, etc) to justify their actions, good or bad

so Bush using the bible, or Osama using the Koran are in this case the same thing when u break it down

the 2 Chronicles 15 quoted refers to israelites making a vow among themselves, that they would always serve the LORD their God, else they should be killed, a vountary vow

the issue of morality and punishment and sin should not be confused

God hates ALL sin, they are all the same in His eyes, we petty human beings may look at the individual consequences and what not, but God examines the heart

the truth is that salvation from Jesus is a mystery, we cannot comprehend it with our human reasoning, because it is far above us, we can only accept it by FAITH

I really don't want to get embroiled in the whole argument thing, just wanted to comment briefly

but Christians follow this: make your choice who u shall serve, not forcing/compelling people, you make your choice and then u enjoy/suffer the consequences

Debowsky I like the way you replied, but you see, if I am to make a choice, I must be able to base my choice on some reasons. If you say some of those things are incomprehensible, it may actually be difficult for me to make the choice. Please try and explain as much as possible some of the concerns rised by ajia23. Even though I do not approve of some of his methods, he sure voices my confusion about trinity and some of the reported actions of Jesus leading to his crucifiction. Why would Jesus want to evade the task he obviously came to earth to do? Why would the devil try to tempt Jesus knowing he was God? Why would Jesus pray to himself on the cross when he is Hod as enunciated by davidylan and TayoD? Please give me the responses to these questions.

why dont you guys just ask Jesus Himself?

Very nice response lioness

Why don't you go and ask Muhammed(SAW) about your own misgivings?

Me, myself

It really is curious that you do not approve of my methods but choose to be silent about the methods of others especially Gwaine who described the Prophet of Islam as follows.

quote author=Gwaine link=topic=7756.msg494402#msg494402 date=1153115225]
That's why you continue to be a juvenile delinquent. You're cheaply applauding yourself when you have nothing more to grasp at because you know that your Quraish prophet Muhammad was a pedophile, a womanizer and an Arab pornographer. W[/b]hining the way you're doing is amusing me all the more, because you're still unable to deny the claims that Muhammad was all of that and more - and your desperation is pathetic since you now can see that Muhammad obtained his licence from the "Allah" of the Qur'an to pursue his unbridled sexual promiscuities. You said people are meant to learn more by the day? Exactly - because more revelations about what you're ignoring in Muhammad's pornographic and licentious career will be posted in days to come, so that you could learn more about what your imams haven't told you.

Typical again of your Islamic juvenile delinquency, because you're excusing the hardcore X-RATED porn in the Qur'an. The arabic word used in [b]Sura 021:091 is not 'chastity' but 'farjaha' (virgina) - and that is the place where Muhammad claimed the "Allah" of the Qur'an was blowing into! What your 'Jibril' was looking for in a woman's farjaha is beyond me. If that is not luridly X-RATED enough to stagger your juvenile mind, we can understand it's because you're a 'minor' who shouldn't be reading such things. So, don't cry so much by making excuses for Muhammad's explicit pornographic tendencies in the Qur'an.

Are you really educating yourself? Didn't Muhammad receive "revelation" from the "Allah" of the Qur'an to pursue his own relatives with his lewd lust - his maternal and paternal cousins?? Or is Sura 033.050 not part of the Qur'an anymore that you're pretending you chaps were not exposed to the possibility of having sexual intercourse with your sisters and relatives??

"Since Hadiths are meant to teach Muslims how to behave and lead good lives, they should naturally not leave any aspect of living uncovered!" That's precisely what I simply helped you to see - uncover the illicit frolic of your Prophet Muhammad with the many women that he lusted after! And it's from the hadiths that we read about Muhammad's confession that your Qur'an was revealed to him while he was 'performing' (having sex) with Aisha -

Sahih Bukhari Volume 5 Book 57 Number 119
". . .the Prophet said, "O Um Salama! Don't trouble me by harming 'Aisha, for by God, the Divine Inspiration never came to me while I was under the blanket of any woman amongst you except her."

So, the Qur'an was "revealed" while he was under the blanket of (having sex with) Aisha! Another hadith is quite revealing, for there we read about the connection between the Qur'an and the lurid dirty game the companions of the Bedouin Prophet Muhammad were playing - messing around with "war booty" (female captives) -

Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 136:
Narrated Jabir:We used to practice coitus interruptus while the Quran was being revealed.
(see Sahih Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 135: Narrated Jabir: We used to practice coitus interruptus during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle).

So, the Qur'an was being revealed while Muhammad was engaged in his pedophilic porn business with Aisha and while his comrades were messing around with female captives! Quaint. That's the example in the hadith that Muhammad left as a legacy to teach you "how to behave and lead good lives", abi?

You really have no idea the extent of irritation and damage you're causing your brethren - and you're so glad as to call that a pleasure! Pity. My irritation has nothing to do with succumbing to your juvenile ignorance, so there's no need for you to cheaply applaud yourself as a 'young challenger'. Rather, like I said, 'I really don't mind' if you'd like to know more about the X-RATED porn adventures of your Quraish prophet Muhammad that you never knew existed. And it's quite hilarious to notice you're learning a few vocabs from me with the pun on 'crybaby'. So, keep crying - more illicit porn adventures in the career of the Quraish prophet will be uncovered at your request - both in the Qur'an and the hadiths.

Now, see those who claim peace and accuse others of violence are they any better? You would be charitable enough to me that I never went that far.

Thats cos i really dont care about him otherwise i would have. But since your so bent about Jesus, Why dont you ask him

ajia23:

Very nice response lioness

Why don't you go and ask Muhammed(SAW) about your own misgivings?

lioness:

why don't you guys just ask Jesus Himself?

emmmm, last tym i checked, Jesus wasnt on earth, i would have asked him but he left b4 i could(duhhhhhhhhhhh!)

@ ajia23, im not being silent cuz im scared of being spanked by Gwaine or some other naira landers,im just waitin4d right moment2put in my 2cents n ur method, well, i wouldnt totally criticize it cuz compared to Ajisafe's method, its much more matured.

emmm Gwaine, bout callin my Prophet a pedophile n all those digustin names, i've dealt wit dt issue b4, her real age isnt really known, she might have been young but had attained puberty, one of the beliefs is that she was 10yrs at the time of proposal and 15yrs before the actual CONSUMATION.the fact that it was consummated, doesnt actually mean he slept with her, so please get your facts straight!
and he slept with her with HER PERMISSION, so it really isnt anyone's problem if she was young! he didnt force her!

and then, girls then were not as small or immature as we are now now, they were actually very mature and grown up, like someone said, girls in Islamic countries are brought up with the knowledge that the have to work4whatever they want as we all know, manna doesnt fall frm heaven again(our sins block it from fallin! lol)

so he definitely WASNT a pedophile! ok?

who said he's got to be on earth before you could talk to him? Daft

me,myself:

emmmm, last time i checked, Jesus wasnt on earth, i would have asked him but he left before i could(duhhhhhhhhhhh!)

ajia23:

Me, myself
It really is curious that you do not approve of my methods but choose to be silent about the methods of others especially Gwaine who described the Prophet of Islam as follows.

Gwaine link=topic=7756.msg494402#msg494402 date=1153115225:

That's why you continue to be a juvenile delinquent. You're cheaply applauding yourself when you have nothing more to grasp at because you know that your Quraish prophet Muhammad was a pedophile, a womanizer and an Arab pornographer. Whining the way you're doing is amusing me all the more, because you're still unable to deny the claims that Muhammad was all of that and more - and your desperation is pathetic since you now can see that Muhammad obtained his licence from the "Allah" of the Qur'an to pursue his unbridled sexual promiscuities. You said people are meant to learn more by the day? Exactly - because more revelations about what you're ignoring in Muhammad's pornographic and licentious career will be posted in days to come, so that you could learn more about what your imams haven't told you.

Now, see those who claim peace and accuse others of violence are they any better? You would be charitable enough to me that I never went that far.

@ajia23,

Please don't take it that badly. For your sake, believe me, I would rather concentrate on a personal rubbing of minds with you and refrain from whatever expressions that may cause the discomfort of a pebble in the shoe of the general Muslim public. What I can't passively tolerate is the excuse of the notion that because Christians are asked to be "peaceful", it therefore gives Muslims the ticket to bash Christians and ridicule their faith in hope that they would do nothing. I'm not a very good exponent of the graces in the Bible - I know that quite well and my family (especially my dad who knows how stubborn I can be) have tried to help better my very 'gymnastic' outlook on life. You should be thankful I didn't enter the Forum in my former temperaments.

You'll be surprised that 4get_me has written several emails pleading with me to refrain from my tone in recent posts (for whatever personal reasons). I hear you all. But when especially in this thread, muslims like your twin OlaAjia are at liberty to call Christians liars and rebellious, and you followed through gleefully consenting to that display of infantile exuberance, you seem to be inviting some very unsympathetic proposal. Further, the same OlaAjia was only too glad to bad-mouth the Bible as a pornographic material - in such a situation, what would you have expected me to do than help turn his gaze closer home to his Qur'an where indeed more graphic pornographic stuff litter the pages of Muhammad's "holy" book? Believe me, there are far more lurid material in that book than most muslims are wont to acknowledge, that's why I take the time to look at the original arabic words and post them for all to see. Yusuf Ali, Picthal, Shakir and several others are just deceiving the world with their political English translations of the Qur'an, because they know only too well that Muhammad's "holy" book is fraught with stuff too much out of taste with the senses of an unbiased reader.

As soon as you Muslims - here and beyond - start respecting the Christian faith, this chap called "Gwaine" will not be so obliged to serve you the same unsympathetic proposal that you call for in your missives. OlaAjia thought Solomon was pornographic and thus he had a problem with the entire Bible; but has he taken a look at the Qur'an and Hadith about who Muhammad really was, and what he did in the sexual arena? If you can't stand the rocks you throw at other people's glass houses, then try not whining when they pelt pebbles at your huts. However, as far as the holy writs of Islam are concerned, Muhammad was precisely what we read of him - a pedophile, a womanizer and an Arab pornographer from the Quraish tribe. It's high time we call the bluff of that self-proclaimed "prophet" who was additionally addicted to his blood-thristy and murderous appetites.

me,myself:

@ ajia23, im not being silent because im scared of being spanked by Gwaine or some other naira landers,im just waitin4d right moment2put in my 2cents n your method, well, i wouldnt totally criticize it because compared to Ajisafe's method, its much more matured.

Relax, I'm not on a trail to spank you or anyone, believe me. In my reply just above, I've tried to explain to ajia23 why I get miffed at some stuff that shouldn't go unnoticed. I've read a bit of Ajisafe on Nairaland. Guess what? If he makes the mistake of blowing hot air in my face, you guys will abandon the Qur'an altogether when I'm done with him. That's no threat - just a friendly reminder.

me,myself:

emmm Gwaine, bout callin my Prophet a pedophile n all those digustin names, i've dealt wit dt issue before, her real age isnt really known, she might have been young but had attained puberty, one of the beliefs is that she was 10yrs at the time of proposal and 15yrs before the actual CONSUMATION.the fact that it was consummated, doesnt actually mean he slept with her, so please get your facts straight! and he slept with her with HER PERMISSION, so it really isnt anyone's problem if she was young! he didnt force her!

Okay, these are the facts that I get straight right out of Aisha's mouth:

Sahih Muslim, Book 8: Number 3310: (The Book of Marriage [Kitab Al-Nikah])
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

So, from her own mouth, she was not 10 or 15 at marriage and consummation respectively. See again:

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18
Narrated 'Ursa: The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."

Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, Number 2116:
Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years.". "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

Now I know that the testimony of a woman is half or less that of a man, and that women are not regarded as worthy of human respect in Islam. But I'm sorry to say contrary to your assertion that "consummated, doesnt actually mean he slept with her", Aisha herself who knew what happened behind doors in the quiet of the night actually said Muhammad actually had intercourse with her when she was 9 years old. That's the facts I get straight out of the Hadith and other Islamic sources.

Like I promised, I won't spank you. But what I must do here is point out that Muhammad is quite qualified for whatever he was called if and only if he did those things that shock our senses. Make no excuses for him - he did those things that merit the appellations ascribed to him; and therefore one cannot help but append those names to him; especially because his activities are written down in black and white on the pages of the most revered books of Islam - the Qur'an and the Hadith.

ok, believe it was a real relief knowin u arent gonna spank me *rolls eyes* lol

u know what, i'd like2approach this from a different direction, r u open2ideas?

Very much so - I'm open to ideas. But a word of caution: my name is "Gwaine" - and in just the same manner you serve me, I'll be all the more pleased to offer you in return.

okay good, i'll let u know, when im ready n i know ur nl name is Gwaine, that was a mistake

Lol. . . cheer up - you didn't make a mistake. That was just a way of saying that for emphasis, my name is "Gwaine" - meaning, that I'm not usually passive at issues. Whenever you're ready, I'll be up. Sorry that my PC threw me off the net a moment ago. . . happenz a few times.

:d

Me, myself

Take it over from here because I promised to ignore gwaine until he reformed and learned to discuss with a little more respect.When he does that, then I will have an intellectual discusiion with him. However, I will follow you arguments closely.

Lol, I can't laugh enough, ajia23. Aiight, I'll just ignore all your requests on the Forum henceforth until you learn the meaning of "reform" and "respect" when discussing publicly affecting issues.

I tried severally to offer those previously, but you chaps simply went haywire and continued unabated in the opposite direction. . . until 'Gwaine' served you in just the same flavour, and you're now holding a white flag. Do the right thing, and you won't need to worry much about your complaints.

U rock Gwaine

Lioness dearie, ur the best

awwww! Gwaine, i tot u were online now! nyways, l8erz then.

sharia law in action in Northern Nigeria.Shame of the 21st century.

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newslongen.php?idelement=4283

http://www.compassdirect.org/en/newsen.php?idelement=4451

@babyosisi,

It is such a pity that this heinous sharia law and its crude and heartless enforcers are allowed to take root in what is supposed to be a secular Nigeria.  Life means nothing to them.  They can only destroy and have no power to create life.

I expect our moslem friends to cook up another conspiracy theory here.  And to top it all, they will keep telling us that Islam is a peaceful religion.  What a hog-wash.  There is absolutely nothing peaceful about that religion.  It was born and propagated in blood and it needs blood for its sustenance.  May God have mercy on their lost and dark souls. 

I feel for the life that has being lost.  But I have just one message for you Islamic murderers: "You may kill us, but you can never do us any real harm, for to be absent in the body is to be present with the Lord."

me,myself:

awwww! Gwaine, i tot u were online now! nyways, l8erz then.

Awww, dearie! I was online for quite a while but didn't see you - and our ISP was frequently throwing me off the net for some inexplicable reason. If you saw me online but not getting responses from me - you know what was happening. How bodi?

Can you check out this BBC report about sharia in Iran: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/5217424.stm

I am more particular about the following statement made in the report. "However, the age of sexual consent for girls under Sharia law is nine, and furthermore, rape is very hard to prove in an Iranian court." Can any muslim plese confirm or refute this allegation. I am inclined to think Mohammed's immoral and carnal knowledge of Aisha is what kept the standard this low. Please prove me wrong.

TayoD,these Muslims are animals,I hate to use harsh words like this but how can a court made of humans sentence a teenage girl (whom the Muslim judge declared as 22 despite her birth certificate) who obviously has had a hard childhood to die in public by hanging for adultery even though she was unmarried while her rapist,a man 3 times her age gets only 79 lashes of the cane,and belotti tells me Muslim women are the most priveledged on earth.

Why is there no outrage from them and yet they will quickly organise themselves after a cartoon.They created a monster and them alone can kill it.

Islam is the worst thing that happened to humanity and women and children are the worst for it.
Let me find something I read sometime ago by Ayatollah Khomeini the Iranian spritual leader(probably burning in hell)that will shock you all.

Still looking for it,but see this.

Marriage
Under the Islamic Rules, the family protection law has been abrogated. The Islamic Republic resolutely supports the practice of polygamy.

Under the Islamic Republic, provisional marriage was sanctioned. Consequently, a man may marry "four Permanent" and as many "Provisional" wives as he desires.

The marriage age for girls was reduced to 13 and with the father's consent, a girl may marry at the age of nine. No restriction on the age of the man. In recent years the marriage age for women has been reduced to 9 years of age.

"The most suitable time for a girl to get married is the time when the girl can have her first menstrual period in her husband's house rather than her father's." Ayatollah Khomeini.[/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]

There are lots of things Ayatollah Khomeini has taught, and while most Muslims in the western hemisphere would be appalled to read some of them, one would have to wonder why he in fact got his teachings from. At the end of the day, you'd have to conclude that whatever hideous names the Ayatollah could be called by moderate Muslims, he was only echoing the religion and teaching of Muhammad.

Some other Islamic laws by some Islamic countries.
You will never see a goat or sheep sold by a mallam the same way again.

Citizens of most Middle Eastern countries are forbidden to eat lamb under certain circumstances covered by Islamic law. The law reads, "After having sexual relations with a lamb, it is a mortal sin to eat its flesh." In Oman, if a man has sex with a camel, a cow, or a ewe, the law says that the animal's milk becomes impure and is no longer suitable for human consumption. Oman law requires that the animal must immediately be killed and then burned. The person who sodomized the beast is required to pay its owner the dead animal's full market value.

In Lebanon, only men are legally allowed to have sex with animals. But the gender of the animal is important—it must always be female. A man's having sexual relations with a male animal is considered a mortal sin and brings a death penalty for those who get caught.

According to Lebanese law, a woman must be executed for fornicating with any animal—wild or domesticated.

And to end this treatise on animals and sex, the law in Iran actually suggests that sex play by their male population "with wild animals is not recommended, especially with a lioness." What is recommended instead is coitus with domesticated animals such as dogs, cats, donkeys, lambs and, yes, of all things—pigeons.

Sodomy is also commonplace in parts of the Middle East. Again, special legislation can be found in Iran to cover this form of sexual activity. The law declares that if a man's penis fully penetrates another man's anus, ablution is also a necessity, but this time for both parties to the sex act.

Kuwait covers all the bases when it comes to sexual feelings. It's illegal there for a married man to glance at another woman "in a sensual manner." Nor can any male, married or single, lustfully look at a statue of a female or at a female animal.

And now I found it,the Ayatollah's teaching that would make your skin crawl,his word was law in the Islamic world,let's read what he had to say.
The very dark side of Islam they pray you never find out.

Islamic Teachings on sex with infants:

"A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister."

The complete Persian text of this saying can be found in "Ayatollah Khomeini in Tahrirolvasyleh, Fourth Edition, Darol Elm, Qom"

Islamic Teachings on sex with animals:

"The meat of horses, mules, or donkeys is not recommended. It is strictly forbidden if the animal was sodomized while alive by a man. In that case, the animal must be taken outside the city and sold."

Editor's notes: I wonder if it is OK to sodomize a dead animal? What happens if the buyer brings the poor animal back into the city?

"If one commits an act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned, and the price of it paid to its owner by him who sodomized it."

Editor's note: The poor animal first is sodomized and then killed and burned. What an Islamic justice towards animals? Where are the animal rights groups?

"It is forbidden to consume the excrement of animals or their nasal secretions. But if such are mixed in minute proportions into other foods their consumption is not forbidden."

"If a man (God protect him from it!) fornicates with an animal and ejaculates, ablution is necessary."

Editor's note: It does not say who should have ablution: the animal or the man?

From: Dr. Homa Darabi Foundation[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]

Christ is the only answer.He makes all things beautiful,he is able to deliver any man/woman that will call on him no matter where you have been.

He says you will find me when you seek me with ALL of your heart.
It's never too late.
Come to him today while you still have breath in you.

babyosisi

Men, I am irritated to the point of vomitting. Islam: what a religion!!!!