idupaul: does anyone have pics of the apparition

There have been several other images in that category:



Clearwater, Florida USA.




Mexico, Maine.




Milton Hospital.




In 2001, a stain that some said resembled the Virgin Mary appeared
during Big Dig construction (lower right).



source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/gallery/100108_virgin_mary/

I have never come across any biblical text that concedes that Mary kept her virginity throughout her entire life. The last time I saw this movie on the birth of Jesus, I can not but notice the way Joseph was excited about getting married to Mary and to the extend of building a new house.

Just curious, I thought she was called virgin Mary on her account of her virgin birth to Jesus of which I believe, but her remain a virgin after the birth is a concept am not aware of.

@MC Usman,

MC Usman:

I have never come across any biblical text that concedes that Mary kept her virginity throughout her entire life.

Nor have I. However, the Biblical texts are all there to be read so that people don't go about with untrue concepts.

People will always see what they want to see. A man from Iran may see the same image in question and say it looks like his darling wife in Tehran wearing the new veil he bought for her. 

     The significance of saying you saw Mary in a window is what I don't understand. Mary isn't God and all this trooping around to see Mary here and there ( B.T.W. thanx for the pix Pilgrim.1) borders on idolatery.

all of una wey dey worship mary,i tire for una oooo

pilgrim dear,how is u doing today honey

smile4kenn:

I saw this same aparation sometimes at St. Leos Catholic Church Ikeja.

Her imaged appeared on the wall and it remained there for one week. it was during the 199-can't remember the year.

i could remember watching it on NTA news too.

If you call on Her, she will always be there for you. She intercedes for her children, Shes a mediator, Shes our Mother, Shes a Queen, Seat of Wisdom, Armor of Gold, Mother of God.

The devil is working overtime now.

davidylan*:

The devil is working overtime now.

how man

Those Images do nt look divine. the one is aw in Aokpe Benue state made more sense, twas called miracle of the sun( the sun actually seemed to move that day)

images, apparitions of dead people are not supported in the bible.

davidylan*:

images, apparitions of dead people are not supported in the bible.

Are u saying those images pilgrims posted are apparitions ? dem look reactions to me

idupaul:

Are u saying those images pilgrims posted are apparitions ? them look reactions to me

possibly not. They look like tricks of light.

i came here in the morning, i couldnt reply

tot it was locked sef

LOL.

Childs play.

Tricks of light

Devil-created, e.t.c

So what do these mean for me as a christian?

where are the Sightings of Christ?

Why is it only Mary

If you call on Her, she will always be there for you. She intercedes for her children, Shes a mediator, Shes our Mother, Shes a Queen, Seat of Wisdom, Armor of Gold, Mother of God.

i hardly quote people, but this statement has got to be the most devilish thing i have heard in ages.

When it becomes so bad that you have to call on a dead person to help you

Denying Christ in the process, and we all know who those are that deny Christ, >>>Anti-Christ

Pity,

JESUS IS LORD!!

Gamine:

Denying Christ in the process, and we all know who those are that deny Christ, >>>Anti-Christ

I doubt they really think about the spiritual import of some of the things they ignorantly say.
don't ask for the sightings of Christ, they really arent interested if not they'D be too busy reading the bible to be looking for apparitions of Mary.

[size=14pt]Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22 F[b]or false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce,[/b] if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.[/size]

Amazing how much the bible has already prophesied of these things.

idupaul:

Are u saying those images pilgrims posted are apparitions ? them look reactions to me

Hmmm, well. . there is bound to be mixed reactions from everyone on these issues. Perhaps in order to not derail this thread, I'll try to post a bit more on the subject from another perspective. Bless you all.

jennykadri:

pilgrim dear,how is u doing today honey

My dear sista, Jesus is Lord of my life everyday. I dey kampe - all glory to His wonderful Name. You nko? How body? I trust you're blessed even more in all things!

@pilgrim

You are really a devilish and fermentor of problems. Why do you like insulting catholics at any given moment it pleases you? Obviously these images and pictures were meant to poke and make fun of catholics and give non catholics the opportunity to say slanderous and offensive statements against catholics.

Why do you derive so much joy in making other denominations unhappy? You hide under the garb of being a christian but you as long as it has nothing to do with your church or beliefs you wage an all out war to ridicule that religion or faith.

If it was another person that posted these pictures to fan the embers of hate of another denomination or faith, the moderator would be very very quick to lock the thread or even ban the person because of you. But since you have been given the blanket license to do and undo on nairaland, you waste no opportunity to take advantage of it.

I dont know why your so afraid of posting what church or denomination you worship in. Since you like to take advantage of other people's faith, it would be fair to proclaim to the whole world where you worship and what you do. Maybe your afraid of the slags you might recieve after your past miraculous post of how you converted.

I really dont see you as a christian that wishes the best for other faithfuls. If your own idea of convincing people to follow jesus christ is through venominous posts and ridicules of other people's faith, it says a lot about the kind of jesus you claim to worship.

Your just a harbinger of hate between catholics and protestants. Good luck to your evil propaganda! I hope the heavens will welcome you when your time comes and give you a very big pat on the back for being a chief ridiculer of other denominations.

@tribalist,

tribalist:

@pilgrim

You are really a devilish and fermentor of problems.

Okay, thank you all the same and may God bless you in return.

tribalist:

Why do you like insulting catholics at any given moment it pleases you?

I have not done so. Posting pictures of what people saw surely should not be regarded as insulting Catholics - especially when these matters were not done in a closet. All the same, I didn't set out to insult anyone; and that is why I rather went to another thread and shared matters on these subjects without zero-ing in on Catholic insigna. You may want to go have a look.

tribalist:

Obviously these images and pictures were meant to poke and make fun of catholics and give non catholics the opportunity to say slanderous and offensive statements against catholics.

That's not true. Even if I never posted those pictures, they are all over the net and many people must have seen them before even I posted them on the forum. Yet, I don't see how that should be interpreted as slander against anyone.

tribalist:

Why do you derive so much joy in making other denominations unhappy?

You're misreading issues and arriving at such vexations unnecessarily. If I wanted to focus on making your own denomination unhappy, I would have been doing so every single time I log in. However, there could be a better way of sharing matters with me - but if you would rather be vexed, I would not go there.

tribalist:

You hide under the garb of being a christian but you as long as it has nothing to do with your church or beliefs you wage an all out war to ridicule that religion or faith.

No one has been complaining other than yourself - how many people have felt that I'm waging an all out war against Christianity?

tribalist:

If it was another person that posted these pictures to fan the embers of hate of another denomination or faith, the moderator would be very very quick to lock the thread or even ban the person because of you. But since you have been given the blanket license to do and undo on nairaland, you waste no opportunity to take advantage of it.

I think there's a better way to handle these matters. Simply tender your complaints to the moderators that you would like those pictures removed from this thread, and they might oblige you. Because I was sensitive to not hurt anyone's feelings, that's why I went to another thread and posted pictures about patterns not limited to just Catholic insignia - they include such insigna in Christian and non-Christian phenomena. Does that mean I am out atacking everybody all at once?

tribalist:

I don't know why your so afraid of posting what church or denomination you worship in.

I haven't been afraid of doing so - if you had taken the time to read through my earlier discussions with Catholics in the relevant thread, you would have seen what I said about such questions.

tribalist:

Since you like to take advantage of other people's faith, it would be fair to proclaim to the whole world where you worship and what you do. Maybe your afraid of the slags you might recieve after your past miraculous post of how you converted.

My discussions so far should be easy to help identify my beliefs on any issue.

tribalist:

I really don't see you as a christian that wishes the best for other faithfuls.

That's okay - there are many people that have said worse things to me directly.

tribalist:

If your own idea of convincing people to follow jesus christ is through venominous posts and ridicules of other people's faith, it says a lot about the kind of jesus you claim to worship.

It's such a pity if you have issues about what I share with people such that you're the only person with this angst against my entries. If others feel I'm all out to attack Christianity, I sure would have heard from them.

tribalist:

Your just a harbinger of hate between catholics and protestants. Good luck to your evil propaganda!

Thank you again, and in return may God bless you for Christ's sake.

@pilgrim

Okay, thank you all the same and may God bless you in return.

Na you sabi!

I have not done so. Posting pictures of what people saw surely should not be regarded as insulting Catholics - especially when these matters were not done in a closet. All the same, I didn't set out to insult anyone; and that is why I rather went to another thread and shared matters on these subjects without zero-ing in on Catholic insigna. You may want to go have a look.

That's funny because i know its only catholics that honour mary and there are alot statutes attributed to mary and apparitions in the form of mary that is synonymous to catholics. Generally when there is a rumour or news that the blessed virgin mary has been sited somewhere, which denomination is usually ascribed to be closely related with such issues.

Its a no brainner. So stop disguising the fact that you didnt know what you were doing to insult catholics. These pictures you posted where done before you even made the other thread to cover up this fact. You are quite aware of your actions and deed. Even in your previous posts in catholic threads your signatures of ridicule are all over the place. All those pictures of catholic faithfuls praying to mary or the pope praying in mary's grotto were all posted by you and no one else to buttress your point that catholics bow to mary.

To a first timer, it might look like a mistake that you posted this picture erroneously without any malice of sort, but your past posts vindicates me that you really despise catholics with a passion and you will do everything in your power to bring us down. Unfortunately no matter the scheme or devise you think of or plan towards to humilate catholics will ever succeed. The more the evil intentions to scorn and make mockery of catholics, the more we multiple.

That's not true. Even if I never posted those pictures, they are all over the net and many people must have seen them before even I posted them on the forum. Yet, I don't see how that should be interpreted as slander against anyone.

Of course it is all over the net but you will be the first one to scout for them and post it. I have seen you have devised a ploy whereby you just open a topic or paste pictures that could cause a religious war or denomination battle and you would quietly step aside and allow your people to finish your battle. How cowardly of you! But when someone posts something remotely negative about you, all your followers will be pressing the moderator button to come to your aid. But for you slander is ok. No problem. Thats what you get for not being a favoured denomination.

You're misreading issues and arriving at such vexations unnecessarily. If I wanted to focus on making your own denomination unhappy, I would have been doing so every single time I log in. However, there could be a better way of sharing matters with me - but if you would rather be vexed, I would not go there.

That is a lie.

from the little i have seen in the past catholic threads were you were a scourge, the members there decided to ignore you and all your feeble entries and hand shake of friendship were rebuffed. It was due to the fact that you were totally blanked out maybe a sort of ban from the catholic forum that you decided to open other threads or contribute to anti catholic threads.

In your past threads you were totally focused on doing everything possible to become a champion of sorts against catholics and prove to the whole world that you know every thing that is totally wrong against catholics. Dont come out here and paint that holy art thou attitude and say you dont log on to post anti catholic remarks.

Save for the ignoring tactics, only God know what level you could have condescended to prove your point!

No one has been complaining other than yourself - how many people have felt that I'm waging an all out war against Christianity?

Go and check the catholic thread and ask that question again. Its kinda rhethorical to me!

I think there's a better way to handle these matters. Simply tender your complaints to the moderators that you would like those pictures removed from this thread, and they might oblige you. Because I was sensitive to not hurt anyone's feelings, that's why I went to another thread and posted pictures about patterns not limited to just Catholic insignia - they include such insigna in Christian and non-Christian phenomena. Does that mean I am out atacking everybody all at once?

Is that a joke? With the powers you wield on this thread, it would be remotely impossible to prevent you from stopping your campaign of calumny against catholics. In fact reporting you to the moderator is a one way ticket to getting banned. Sorry we are wiser now. In my previous thread i once called you god of nairaland and i stand my ground there.

The slightest criticism of you, led to almost a ban and locking of a thread because i gave a valid critic of your conversion story. But when it is your turn to say unprintable things and post pictures that could raise blood pressures, your given a leeway to proceed.

No thanks i decline your offer to report you!

Also the thread you posted about other signs and insignas was done after you had achieved your aim on this thread. Double standard!

I haven't been afraid of doing so - if you had taken the time to read through my earlier discussions with Catholics in the relevant thread, you would have seen what I said about such questions

Please remind me. There are so many posts in the catholic thread. I might have missed it. But again i doubt you would because you are sensitive to criticisma nd your hound dogs will come to your rescue.

I dont need it anyway. It makes no difference in my life what you worship but i know no church would encourage its members to go all out to castigate another denomination.

It's such a pity if you have issues about what I share with people such that you're the only person with this angst against my entries. If others feel I'm all out to attack Christianity, I sure would have heard from them.

Point of correction. You attack catholics and muslims not christianity. The day you pick on other christian denominations will be the day. But since your covering your self under the cloak of general protestant christian, then other protestants will feel at ease with you.

I just implore you to see the negative side of christ embassy or redeem church and devote the amount of time you spend in abusing the pope, mary and general catholics and see if those that support you now will be behind you and not abuse you to pieces.

This tribalist dude sef.

take it easy, why are you only seeing Pilgrim??

Ancient Angus beef?

lol at catholics catching feelings because people say they are worshipping images. Afterall worshipping images are ok according to cannon law. Catholics there is nothing wrong in your religion lol.

Gamine:

This tribalist dude sef.

take it easy, why are you only seeing Pilgrim??

Ancient Angus beef?

How come i no see you? Why arent you posting anti catholic threads with so much beef and venom like pilgrim. I accept the fact that everybody has a right to debate issues whether it is right or wrong but it shouldnt be based on pure malice and ridicule and pilgrim is very very good at that and no one seems to control her actions on the contrary you all encourage her because catholics are a vertitable tool to be bashed and ultimately pilgrim has taken it upon her self to be the chief mouth piece to enounce catholics in a very terrible and libelous manner.

It upsets me that she is hiding her own church or denomination and banking on others who are bold enough to state where they worship or pray. Isnt that cowardly to say the least and you say i am beefing her. Wetin concern me with am?

If she was being objective and say things once in a while, it is okay, but it feels like haranging catholics gives her some sort of spiritual joy or fulfillment anytime she posts these things.

I wonder why the whole of nairaland was upset when i made one comment about her religious conversion story from muslim to christian that resulted in an almost ban and locked thread!

AK2:

lol at catholics catching feelings because people say they are worshipping images. Afterall worshipping images are ok according to cannon law. Catholics there is nothing wrong in your religion lol.

Catholics, catholics, catholics, ! You guys just like to take pot shots at catholics. You use condescending words to describe us like lepers. I challenge you guys to name your own denominations or churches and see whether all the skeletons underneath wont be exposed.

Its just a cowardly approach to things. Instead you will hide under the banner of God's word as if you dont go to a particular church or attend a particular denomination to fulfill that God's word! Almost all the protestant churches i have entered has some form of insigna or designed cross either on top of the roof or by the pulpit. What is that cross doing there if not some form of image worshipping?

What then makes your churches holier or better than catholic churches?

Shey you can see the problem that arises

when we dont read Whats IN the bible, which one be canon law?

WE are the Church

There is no need for a physical structure/temple/tabernacle/watever.

So the problem of my church is better wont arise

THIS is what was to be avoided,but trust man.

I do not belong to any denomination I Am A CHRISTIAN

And i follow whats IN my Bible not what any priest/prophet/bishop/pastor has said

This is how its supposed to be.


So My guy you cant justify your venom

As far as I am concerned Protestanism of nowadays and Catholicism is the same. I read the King James Version of the Bible. The true word of God not NIV , Good News Bible etc which has been edited by agents of Satan. I follow God not Mary(Isis) or Man. Lol u call yourself a Catholic and you don't know cannon law is. This is sad.

AK2:

As far as I am concerned Protestanism of nowadays and Catholicism is the same. I read the King James Version of the Bible. The true word of God not NIV , Good News Bible etc which has been edited by agents of Satan. I follow God not Mary(Isis) or Man. Lol u call yourself a Catholic and you don't know cannon law is. This is sad.

What are you going on about? Is there anything concerning the worship/deification of Mary in any of the bible versions you mentioned?

@Ak

Who are you talking to exactly?

Whats your point?

Gamine:

Shey you can see the problem that arises

when we don't read Whats IN the bible, which one be canon law?

WE are the Church

There is no need for a physical structure/temple/tabernacle/watever.

So the problem of my church is better wont arise

THIS is what was to be avoided,but trust man.

I do not belong to any denomination I Am A CHRISTIAN

And i follow whats IN my Bible not what any priest/prophet/bishop/pastor has said

This is how its supposed to be.


So My guy you can't justify your venom

1. I never said anything about canon law so your arguments there are baseless and interpolations to posts should be totally avoided.

2. So from your post i should gather that you dont go to any church what so ever and you just read the bible at home 24/7?

3. I should assume correctly that you are not affilated with any church, pastor or denomination what so ever abi?

In short your a one woman bible reading and assimilating church?

If i am wrong please correct me because that is what i can get from your post.


If not because i am a christian, for just relying soley on the bible, i should have been criticizing the bible thoroughly just to make a point. I can imagine an atheist tackling you on the bible soley. How would that make you feel afterwards especially if it is directed at you alone filled with libelous comments?

AK2:

As far as I am concerned Protestanism of nowadays and Catholicism is the same. I read the King James Version of the Bible. The true word of God not NIV , Good News Bible etc which has been edited by agents of Satan. I follow God not Mary(Isis) or Man. Lol u call yourself a Catholic and you don't know cannon law is. This is sad.

1. Once again point of correction, i havent stated anything about canon law and i havent accepted or denied the existance of canon law in any of my post. Please refrain from lying and adding rumours to your posts.

2. What kind of talk is this. Trying to segregate bibles and stating which one is real and satanic? Can you listen to yourself? These are the kind of things atheists use against christians when ever they see christian brothers segregating themselves. These are the kind of statements that promote acrimony in christianity and not unity. How do you define the NIV better than the good news or king james?

Where you there when it was being written? where you there when it was being edited? where you there when the various chhapters and authors were being selected to be in the bible? have you heard of the other gospels such as the gospel of peter, judas, andrew and a host of others that are not in the bible?

Dont start comparing and contrasting to claim yours is the best. Imagine if i was like pilgrim now, i would go online and bring out all the negatives concerning the Niv to ridicule you but i am above such childish behaviour.

Whether niv, goodnews or whatsoever, as long as you believe in jesus christ as your saviour, it is well with you as a christian. Nothing else matters.

The canon law thingy wasnt addressed to you.

Yes, at present im not "affliated" to any pastor or church

No, i do not read the bible 24/7 at home, i have friends with whom i study the word

we have fellowships, discuss the word, talkabout day to day Christian living.

I go online to get devotionals that speak from the bible.

i have found a church that i believe knows what theyare talking about

and in time i will start going there.

i have corrected

Gamine:

@Ak

Who are you talking to exactly?

Whats your point?

My point is so far u have God's word u dont need a priest or pastor. Just the Holy Spirit to explain it to you.

tribalist:


don't start comparing and contrasting to claim yours is the best. Imagine if i was like pilgrim now, i would go online and bring out all the negatives concerning the Niv to ridicule you but i am above such childish behaviour.

Whether niv, goodnews or whatsoever, as long as you believe in jesus christ as your saviour, it is well with you as a christian. Nothing else matters.

You riducule someone because of his ideas. I laugh at people at you. Go read a book and stop celebrating ignorance. I put in work.I would excuse your ignorance . there are 2 manuscripts . The Latin Vulgate and the Recieved text. The recieved text is the True word of God. The modern translation such as NIV Good News Bible etc are based on the corrupt Latin Vulgate.

"Listen to this statement by Martini. 'The risen Jesus is present to each one, as though the individual loved person were the only object of his love. The risen Christ is the love of God revealed in our hearts by the Spirit, in the heart of each and of all and in each of all. Jesus does not individualize this "each'; he gives himself to the church, the world, the angels, and the universe. Jesus exists for all. But he is for all in such a way that he is for each one, thus making each one become a part of the whole. Such is the power of the resurrection of the "abbreviated" Word, which has made itself small. Whoever accepts the scandal of the Word-become-small will share in the glory of the universality of the cosmic Word which embraces and synthesizes everything, in which all things find their order and fullness, in which everything is resumed and established. (Through Moses To Jesus, Carlo M. Martini, SJ, page 121.)

"What a revelation of heresy. Note such statements as "the cosmic Word," the "Word-become-small," and the "abbreviated Word." No wonder the NIV has eliminated the word "Lord" 76 times, "God" 45 times, "blood" 23 times, "miracles" 21 times. The title "Master" was changed to "teacher" 43 times. The "Word-become-small" fits his theology perfectly.

"He speaks of the "scandal of Jesus" when speaking of His earthly sojourn. Here are his words describing Jesus as possessing the universe and all human will, "Along the way of the scandal of Jesus' particularization until the funereal opacity of the cross, the glory of God totally fills every being. The more I think about it, the more truly grandiose and almost incredible this truth seems to me - that God fills every being with himself. He gives himself, not merely a little but in full. This divine fullness transforms into a divinized totality the entire universe of the human will, which the Son has won for the Father. Though it is true that here we do not yet have the 'all in all' that is the final perfection which we are to attain, nevertheless by lovingly contemplating God in all of us, we already obtain a glimpse of how the fullness of God is gradually actuating the 'all in all,' according to the measure in which each one is able to accept such a vision." (Ibid., p. 122.)

"This is the exact message of the New Agers and is slowly becoming the message of the evangelical world. Ask any minister that has had a few years in the NIV and you will usually find an accommodating attitude toward other religions. The theology they would probably deny, but the acceptance of a broader way to salvation has become almost universal in the church world.

"The Catholic writers are extolling the fact that Evangelical leaders are willing to work together in the translation of Scripture," added Chambers. "One writer said: 'Catholics should work together with Protestants in the fundamental task of biblical translation, [They can] work very well together and have the same approach and interpretation, [This] signals a new age in the church, ' (Patrick Henry, New Directions in New Testament Study (Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1979), pp. 232-234.)

"The Papel evangelical "Divine afflante Spiritu" in 1943 called for an ecumenical Bible. "[T]hese translations [should] be produced in cooperation with separated brothers." (New American Bible [New York: The World Publishing Co., 1970], p. vii.)"

Warning all true Bible believers to expose Vatican deception, Chambers went in depth about why the NIV Bible should be rejected:

"The NIV Bible is clearly possessed by a Catholic spirit and is leading a multitude of churches back to the Mother Harlot. I awoke at approximately 4:00 AM a few days ago and was gripped to document this fact. The thought startled me, but I have found the facts to back it up. This paraphrased version (NIV) of the Holy Scripture is designed to deceive and apostacize the unsuspecting. The translators admit that it is not a word translation but a thought translation. They call it "dynamic equivalence" but God calls it "adding" and "taking away" from what the Holy Ghost has delivered to men guided by His Spirit. Somebody will pay dearly at judgment.

"My former denomination of 41 years has only recently moved from complete devotion to the Authorized Version (KJV) to a partial acceptance of the NIV. Their transition to the NIV is only at the early stage, but already they are beginning to play the game of the Roman Church. Here are a few quotes with a picture from the January 2001 edition of their official publication. "Just recently Bishop John H. Mambo, regional superintendent for the Church of God in Central Africa, was invited to attend the 22nd anniversary of Pope John Paul's election as the head of the Catholic Church. 'I count the invitation an honor not only for me but also for the Church of God,' Bishop Mambo says." How can a previously staunch Bible believing denomination find honor in the Roman Harlot? To seek her favor is to forsake the God of Holy Scripture.

"I'm convinced that there is a spirit of deception that underpins this particular bible. If you follow the sign's evidence, it leads back to the influence of the people involved and forward to the conduct being manifested in the evangelical world. Something is wrong. No, everyone involved is not bad and deceiving. They are just as sincere as those of us who disagree with them, but that does not eliminate the problem.

The Background of the NIV

No translation of the Bible can be better than the manuscript from which it is translated. Ninety-nine (99) percent of all the known manuscripts and other documenting materials support and agree with the Textus Receptus stream. This stream of manuscript is sometimes called "The Received Text" or the "Byzantine Text." These text types have been preserved through the centuries and accepted by the true believers all the way back as far as can be documented until the last 100 plus years. Dean Burgeon, an English scholar, documented thousands of quotes, statements, and sermons from the early church fathers that proves beyond question that the Textus Receptus is the pure stream of "Truth."

A modern scholar, Randall Price, has reviewed the Dead Sea Scrolls and written an excellent book on the text and facts of this marvelous discovery. While Randall is not a KJV enthusiast, he personally stated to me that these scrolls support the Old Testament Masoretic text as translated in the King James Version 80% of the time. When you study the nature of these Jewish descendants and their lifestyle, an 80% agreement with the Masoretic text cannot be less than a miracle. No wonder there has been loud voices claiming that the Catholic church sit on this discovery for over forty (40) years.

What most students of Scripture do not know is that the Old Testament Masoretic Text in the new Bibles is not the Masoretic of the King James Version. Here is a clear quotation from an excellent book by Dr. D.A. Waite, graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary. "Here's some background on it. The Daniel Bomberg edition, 1516- 1517, was called the First Rabbinic Bible. Then in 1524-25, Bomberg published a second edition edited by Abraham Ben Chayyim (or Ben Hayyim) iben Adonijah. This is called the Ben Chayyim edition of the Hebrew text. Daniel Bomberg's edition, on which the KING JAMES BIBLE is based was the Ben Chayyim Masoretic Text. This was called the Second Great Rabbinic Bible. This became the standard Masoretic text for the next 400 years. This is the text that underlies the KING JAMES BIBLE. For four hundred years, that was the Old Testament Hebrew text. Nobody translated the Old Testament except by using this text. [This is from Biblical Criticism Historical, Literal, Textual by Harrison, Walkie and Guthrie, 1978, pages 47-82.] (Defending The King James Bible, Rev. D.A. Waite, p. 27.)

The new Masoretic is then described according to Dr. Waite as the following, "The edition we used when I was a student of Dr. Merrill F. Unger at Dallas Theological Seminary (1948-53), was the 1937 edition of the Biblia Hebraica by Kittel. All of a sudden in 1937, Kittel changed his Hebrew edition and followed what they called the Ben Asher Masoretic Text instead of the Ben Chayyim. They followed in that text, the Leningrad Manuscript, (B19a, or "L." The date on it was A.D. 1008. This was not the traditional Masoretic Text that was used for 400 years and was the basis of the KING JAMES BIBLE. They changed it and used this Leningrad Manuscript. So even the main text used by the NKJV, NASV, and NIV in the Hebrew is different from that used for the King James Bible. In addition to the various changes in the Hebrew text at the top of the page, the footnotes in Kittel's BIBLIA HEBRAIC suggest from 20,000 to 30,000 changes throughout the whole Old Testament." (Ibid., p. 27.)

Must I say more to show you what is happening behind the scenes that most good and studious people have very little opportunity to learn? That is, unless they study beyond the average book available on the bookstore shelves.

No one has hated and opposed the King James Bible and other similar versions of the Bible, as has the Roman Catholic Church. When you read Foxe's Book of Martyrs, research the many thousands of men and women burned at stakes or savagely tormented and murdered by Catholic priests just because they were devoted to translating, printing, or reading the Holy Bible in the common language, you cannot just walk away. Now couple what is happening today with the history (beyond argument) of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Greek Text Behind the NIV Bible

Here is a plain statement from the NIV translators themselves. They said, "What Greek text was used by the translators of the NIV New Testament. It was basically that found in the United Bible Society's and Nestle's printed Greek New Testaments, which contain the latest and best Greek text available.

"In many passages there is no way of being absolutely certain as to what was the original reading because the best Greek manuscripts, both earlier and later ones, have variant readings. In such cases the translators were asked to weigh the evidence carefully and make their own decision. Of course such decisions were subject to reexamination by the Committee on Bible Translation." (The NIV: The Making of a Contemporary Translation, Kenneth L. Barker, p. 53.) Please note that they stated that the "United Bible Society" and "Nestle's" Greek New Testaments were their primary sources.

Before we look at these two "Greek New Testaments" and their modern translators, let's look back to the source for these Greek translations. The same book above also documents the manuscripts these translators used for their modern Greek translation. Let's let them speak for themselves. "Soon after the middle of the nineteenth century (1859), N. Tischendorf discovered in the monastery of Saint Catherine on Mount Sinai a fourth-century uncial manuscript of the entire New Testament, together with much of the Old Testament in Greek translation. From its place of discovery, it is called Codex Sinaiticus. ("Codex" means a bound book, in distinction from a scroll.) Soon after that he pressured authorities into making another fourth-century manuscript available to scholars. It is called Codex Vaticanus, because it is held in the Vatican Library at Rome. Codex Sinaiticus is now in the British Museum. (Ibid., p. 55.)

It is absolutely clear that two main manuscripts, both from Roman Catholic sources, are the heart and soul of these translations of the Greek New Testament. They stated, "we should be grateful to God for making these early manuscripts available to us." I say, why not "thank the Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest" for making them available. God knew where they were all of the hundreds of years that this Harlot church was using them for their false doctrines. Everyone should read the story of two men, Westcott and Hort, that are credited with bringing these false manuscripts into the stream of the modern Bible text. These men were lovers of Rome and Mary and were notedly involved in occultic activities.

Now, let's look at the modern translators, both for the United Bible Society and Nestle's New Testament Greek. There were five men named as the committee for the editing of the second and third editions of the United Bible Society text. Here are the names, as listed in the front of The Greek New Testament, Third Edition, "Kurt Aland, Matthew Black, Carlo M. Martini, Bruce M. Metzger, and Allen Wikgren." Listen as they describe the activity of these five men in the preface. "The Third Edition, however, contains a more thorough revision of the Greek text. In a series of meetings the Committee, including Carlo M. Martini, who has been a member of the Committee for both the Second and Third Editions undertook a thorough review of the text of the First Edition by carefully considering not only a number of suggestions made by specialists in the hold of New Testament studies, but also numerous recommendations resulting from the experience of the members of the Committee as they worked with the text of the First Edition. The greater part of these suggestions for further modification came from Kurt Aland, who had been making a detailed analysis of changes proposed for the 26th edition of the Nestle Aland text. A number of these were textual alterations that had not been previously discussed by the Committee in their work on the First Edition. As a result of the Committee's discussions, more than five hundred changes have been introduced into this Third Edition.

The Committee, sponsored by the United Bible Societies, has thus been able to establish a single text for the Third Edition Greek New Testament and for the 26th edition of the Nestle Aland Text. (Notes on The Greek New Testament, viii.)

Please note the way Carlo M. Martini is emphasized in the preface quote above. He continued on to the last and fourth edition and is apparently still one of the five persons responsible for the on-going changes in both the United Bible Society and Nestle Greek New Testament. This is incredible information explaining why the NIV is such a strong change-agent toward Catholicism. This man is not just a Catholic, he is a Jesuit Priest and a leading teacher of New Age ideas. Let's investigate some of his ideas of Biblical truth.

In another book by Martini, he speaks of "deification" (all becoming divine) as embracing the pagans of the world. Here are his exact words, "The deification which is the aim of all religious life takes place. During a recent trip to India I was struck by the yearning for the divine that pervades the whole of Hindu culture. It gives rise to extraordinary religious forms and extremely meaningful prayers. I wondered: What is authentic in this longing to fuse with the divine dominating the spirituality of hundreds of millions of human beings, so that they bear hardship, privation, exhausting pilgrimages, in search of this ecstasy? (In The Thick Of His Ministry, Carlo M. Martini, p. 42.)

Such a statement coming from the man who is being projected as the next Pope of the Roman Catholic Church has far-reaching consequences. Are Hindus actually on a quest that will end ultimately in their becoming divine? They believe so and the new religious evolution is now accepting the same.

Mr. Martini continues to teach this deification but proceeds to show the "Diabolical Mass" as a process. He stated. "The ministry of reconciliation goes on throughout our lives, but especially at two moments.

The first in intercession, that is in the Eucharist. We take on this ministry when we offer Christ's body and blood and show it to the people. This is the chief moment in which we are ministers of reconciliation. 'This is the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world.' If only people could understand the extraordinariness of this action and these words! We often lament the sins of the world, the newspapers full of crimes, atrocities and vulgarity. But then we say: 'This is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.' And we are certain that this world sunk in sin can be restored. When in the offering and intercession of the Eucharist we pray with the Church that the Lord remove from his holy people all evil, discord and hostility, we are ministers of reconciliation." (Ibid., p. 58.)

Does the presence of a Jesuit Priest, a New Age, and heretic on the translation and editing of your Bible make any difference? Do we believe that this man, possibly

in line to be the next "Pope and Vicar of Jesus Christ" for the world's largest cult, would waste his time on that committee unless he was making a difference? Now you are beginning to understand why the Evangelicals are talking of working together with the Catholic Church. It has been happening subtly for many years while the church world was spared the facts until the influence could be guaranteed.

What will be the attitude of these committee members for the Greek New Testament and the translators for the NIV, should their working friend Martini soon become the Pope? The present Pope said in his book, Sources of Renewal published by Harper and Row, "little by little, all will be gathered together into the unity of the one and only church." (Sources of Renewal, P. 328)

The NIV and Catholic Doctrines

There are very important changes in the NIV that clearly lean toward dogmas highly esteemed in Catholicism. These changes are very important and clearly help in either establishing or leaning toward the developing merger between Evangelicals and Catholics. Let's list just a few of these text changes. We will list scripture changes after naming the Catholic doctrine.

- Transubstantiation - The mass teaches that the communion bread and cup is actually transformed into the flesh and blood of the Son of God. Not the subtle change.

KJV: "For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed." (John 6:55).

NIV: "For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." (John 6:55).

- Confessing Your Sins to a Priest - We believe we can confess our faults to one another and forgive each other but only God is to receive your confession of sin.

KJV: "Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (James 5:16).

NIV: "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed." (James 5:16).

- The Saying of "Hail Mary" - To use this vain repetition is rejected by Bible believers. The NIV changes the words "vain repetition" to babbling.

KJV: "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." (Matthew 6:7).

NIV: "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words." (Matthew 6:7).

- Mary was Immaculate and Childless Except the Virgin Birth of Jesus - We believe Jesus was the firstborn to Mary with brothers and sisters.

KJV: "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS." (Matthew 1:25).

NIV: "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus." (Matthew 1:25).

- Mary is the Co-Redemptress - The Bible clearly states there are only three that bear record in Heaven.

KJV: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7).

NIV: Removed to make way for Mary.

- Mary was equal with Christ - We believe that only Mary needed purification.

KJV: "And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;" (Luke 2:22).

NIV: "When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord." (Luke 2:22).

The NIV Bible is clearly a Catholic version designed to harmonize the doctrines of Scripture with heretical doctrines of the Roman Harlot. Unless we quit trying to be so civil with the enemies of the gospel, the gospel itself is going to be lost to a multitude of sincere souls. Many additional changes can clearly show this bent toward the Catholic Church.

The holy Spirit explained things to the apostles

and its what you see in the bible

There can be no private interpretation.

It is only confirmed with us, when alone or with other believers

@tribalist,

tribalist:

Its a no brainner. So stop disguising the fact that you didnt know what you were doing to insult catholics. These pictures you posted where done before you even made the other thread to cover up this fact. You are quite aware of your actions and deed.

Posting pictures of such apparitions is no insult - in as much as it is Catholics themselves who have attached some religious importance to such simulacra. Even if I was not the one to post them, these are not private matters as many people know that these images are all over the net - so why should that upset you so much? It's not as if I even made any critical statements about such images, and the only that seems to be so upset here is you.

tribalist:

Even in your previous posts in catholic threads your signatures of ridicule are all over the place. All those pictures of catholic faithfuls praying to mary or the pope praying in mary's grotto were all posted by you and no one else to buttress your point that catholics bow to mary.

That's true, and I don't remember denying that I've been engaged in fiesty debates with Catholics in the other thread. There were two things that drew me into that debate: (a) the denials of several Catholics at the obvious issues of images and praying to Mary; and (b) the taunts of Catholics who would not let me be (that's why I often said "me I dey my own jeje". My aim was not to ridicule anyone; but it is understandable that a few Catholics would have been upset after reading the evidence in my debates about the issues they denied.

tribalist:

To a first timer, it might look like a mistake that you posted this picture erroneously without any malice of sort, but your past posts vindicates me that you really despise catholics with a passion and you will do everything in your power to bring us down.

You truly sound like the first-timer you envisage here. I don't post pictures or evidence erroneously; nor do I despise anyone or even aim to bring anyone down. If that is what you made out of reading my posts, you missed it by a long short and only allowed your mind to stray.

tribalist:

Unfortunately no matter the scheme or devise you think of or plan towards to humilate catholics will ever succeed. The more the evil intentions to scorn and make mockery of catholics, the more we multiple.

People have always multiplied their number on error - so what is my bother there? Pride does not help your case here, so I could as well bear with your misgivings.

tribalist:

Of course it is all over the net but you will be the first one to scout for them and post it. I have seen you have devised a ploy whereby you just open a topic or paste pictures that could cause a religious war or denomination battle and you would quietly step aside and allow your people to finish your battle. How cowardly of you! But when someone posts something remotely negative about you, all your followers will be pressing the moderator button to come to your aid. But for you slander is ok. No problem. Thats what you get for not being a favoured denomination.

Lol, you are really disturbed about something that cannot be defined here - and trying to misrepresent issues where no one else is complaining is a sad waste of your resources.

tribalist:

from the little i have seen in the past catholic threads were you were a scourge, the members there decided to ignore you and all your feeble entries and hand shake of friendship were rebuffed. It was due to the fact that you were totally blanked out maybe a sort of ban from the catholic forum that you decided to open other threads or contribute to anti catholic threads.

Ah! This one is a huge laugh! Catholics banned me or rebuffed my shake of friendship? Make I laugh out really loud! Since my return after a long break, I chose not to go over to either the Muslim section or Catholic threads and rather concentrate my efforts elsewhere in general discussions where thinkers (rather than whiners) participate. Even so, I'm not the only one debating the issues of Catholicism on the forum; but just to placate your conscience, you zeroed in on pilgrim.1 because you have very little clue where else to turn to for your sobs.

My dear tribalist, there's no need for all these vexations - I was long done with debates on Catholic issues - and where I piced it up yet again was to show that it was pointless for a few Catholics to refer to others as liars when they themselves were obviously denying the obvious. The issues are there - and if you feel so offended and put off, there could have been a better way to discuss this. However, if you would rather feel that your case is beyond help, then there's no need to reason issues through any further. Do have a wonderfukl weekend. Jesus is Lord.

@smile4kenn,

smile4kenn:

There is no gain in criticizing the catholic church. They have been existing for thousands years and the church is still there with millions of members,

Do you think people in catholic church are not humans? or do you think catholic priests are not humans?

Actually, just to correct an impression from my point of view, I don't think anyone is saying that Catholics are not human. Rather, the issues being discussed need to be well understood on either side so that people do not come away assuming that anyone is attacking Catholics themselves. In the past, tempers have been high - and they still run high in the present. But when discussions are held on several issues, the tendency is for people to ignore the issues and rather focus on personal feelings. Just my observation, Cheers.