Orphic (adj)
‘Having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence;
beyond ordinary understanding’ (WordWeb online)


The “unbelievable” have often been explained away by doubters – and there are many of us who fall into that category of enquirers. One thing is sure as we examine issues that will be shared in this thread: most of these phenomena cannot be explained away; albeit many people who have tried to do so only serve us with unsatisfactory exculpations. Not that I have any answers myself: no, I don’t have any answers at all. But the wonder of it is that I choose to hold my thoughts in reservations where it is not clear to me what they are, rather than assert that thus-and-that are actually the answers.

*As it is not my intention to derail a particular thread on these themes (and definitely not to offend those who hold such convictions), it seemed a better deal to bring my concerns to a different thread for comments and discussions to be shared. [I apologise upfront to our friends and brethren of the Catholic faith to understand that pilgrim.1 is not proposing a dissing of their convictions – that is not my intention, and I respect your convictions even though we may not find common grounds on so many issues].

However, it would be interesting to see what these phenomena make many people think. Are they merely to be ignored, laughed away, . . or there is something about them that should make us think for a moment and appreciate just how little we know of our living world? Indeed, some have opined that they are possibly “reactions”; others may be inclined to see them as “tricks of light”. Whatever is the case, let’s take a look at some of these and see the reactions and comments that may follow them.

APPARITIONS,   SIGHTINGS,   IMAGES,   SIMULACRA  . . . OR ?!?  (1) 

There is hardly any part of the world where people are totally oblivious of reports about the apparitions or sightings of “Virgin Mary”. Whether these are actually ‘Mary’ herself appearing in these phenomena is not the issue here; but observe for yourself and see if there are dots to be connected somewhere as to the coincidence in these occurences.


             Some See Virgin Mary In Souplantation Paneling

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

                   ________________________________________________________

                   “The latest sighting of the Virgin Mary is at a local Souplantation
                   in San Diego. . . Customers told NBC 7/39 that they see her image
                   in a piece of wood paneling at the restaurant on Mission Gorge Road
                   in Grantville. The business' management said that it has been there
                  for years. . . The local Catholic diocese said that it is not investigating
                  it as an actual apparition of Mary.”
                   ________________________________________________________

source and picture credits: NBCSanDiego.com (August 2004)
There’s a link just above the NBC San Diego report where readers can view more of these images.

There certainly have been many such expressions recorded in so many places around the world. Whether they include images on –
~ a Missouri man’s grease tray
~ grease cheese sandwich
~ a Chicago underpass
~ a tree in Dallas
~ dental x-ray in Arizona
. . all these have drawn people in their multitudes to give them various meanings and signifiance, so that some who are quite religious have made some special buffer to zone off such grounds for worship/prayer.

A few more of such images are given below: see what you make of them.


SIMULACRA, PAREIDOLIA, APOPHENIA . . . OR ?!? (2)


[img]http://0723081442_M_072308_fishstickjesus.jpg[/img]

Whose Face Is This?


[img]http://mikesplace.freeserverhost.com/Gallimaufry/VirginMaryGrilledCheese/Virgin%20Mary%20in%20Grilled%20Cheese,%20box%20print%20&%20framed%20print.jpg[/img]

“Virgin Mary” on Grilled Cheesethat fetched $28,000 .




Some see a crucifix in this fishbone


While some of these images have drawn the attention of many curious minds, most of them have been discounted and others have not aroused the interest of the authorities to investigate them (as in the case of the souplantaion panelling in San Diego). Indeed, most of the patterns are around us everyday and we tend to take them for granted. And if you’re a thinker inclined to enquire about their religious significance, it seems queer indeed that so many people are moved to build shrines for worship or prayer around these images – whether they appear on food or on trees.

Ah, but it’s not only about the “Virgin Mary” or “Jesus” that these pareidolia and simulacrum have been attributed. Indeed, there are so many of these that one encounters around the world; and they have also been regarded with special attention by their admirers. Let’s look at a few other religious apophenia in the world (I apologise – the grammar no be my fault ).

Well, a few of my muslim “friends” on YIM have “kindly” asked me in very critical terms (apart from the remonstrances) to check the “signs” of Allah all over the place. Okay, granted – I checked and came up with the following:








‘Allah’ in Arabic written on ‘honey cubes’




‘Allah’ in Arabic written on an Egg




Cactus spelling ‘Allah’ in Arabic




Tree in ‘Ruku’ Position (Islamic prayer position)

Who authorised the initial images/paintings as authentic depictions of Mary in the first place?

Of what benefit is it for Mary to appear in a wood pattern? Does she bring Salvation? What is the purpose of all this?

In my view, it is a coincidence, nothing more. An Artist's imagination cannot be taken to be an authentic rendering and be used as a template to compare other 'sightings' with. Some Roman painting cannot be relied upon as a definitive description of Mary.

In addition, no real purpose or reason can be ascribed to these random sightings, except for generating undue hype or paranoia.

debosky:

In addition, no real purpose or reason can be ascribed to these random sightings, except for generating undue hype or paranoia.

Hi @debosky,

Well, that's one view (or reaction) to the phenomena being shared in this thread - as I didn't want to derail the other one. The thing is that it is not limited to Mary sightings or apparitions - as you will see later on.

Warm regards.

pilgrim.1:

Well, a few of my muslim “friends” on YIM have “kindly” asked me in very critical terms (apart from the remonstrances) to check the “signs” of Allah all over the place.

So, there they are. But although some were naïve to assume that it has always been “allah” written on those medium/media, they supposed (nay, ‘alleged’) that one could not find a similar “sign” for the European’s god (by which they meant that no such signs could be found in the English equivalent of “God”).  I remember someone gently “reminded”  me on the forum that Jesus never spoke English (“never heard of it”,  said she) . . by which she had thought of calling my attention to the name ‘Allah’.

That being so, I only smiled and asked those gentlemen to come back here and let me help them see just the very thing they alleged was never in existence. Below, you will find “GOD” written on the side of the alligator:


                     

                     

                     


                      ____________________________________________________________

                    Michael Wilk was tossing back a few beers with friends when he saw
                    God on the side of his 4-foot-long pet alligator. The white markings
                    popped out against a backdrop of black scales to form the letters G-O-D.”
                      ____________________________________________________________

source: http://purgatorio1.com/?p=473  (more here)

Who authorised the initial images/paintings as authentic depictions of Mary in the first place?

Why must the holy virgin be always pictured in that dressing.

idupaul:

Why must the holy virgin be always pictured in that dressing.

That's a very important point I was contemplating on expatiating upon - but you anticipated me.

Besides the religions of the ‘Cross’ and the ‘Crescent’ (no offences intended), there are other crowds that are drawn to similar cognitive biases in nature. One such example is the case of the “Monkey Spirit in a Tree” in Singapore. Viewed from various scales, one may see outlines and projections that may look like monkeys on the tree trunk. See for yourselves:


CLUSTER ILLUSION OR GAMBLER’S FALLACY? (3)

“Monkey Spirit” In Tree – Singapore









______________________________________________________________

“The monkey spirit tree made it to the headlines and became one of the most
talked-about news items in Singapore. A usually peaceful housing estate
bustled with life as people gathered at the tree to pray for good luck. Believe
it or not, a number of people had a windfall after paying their respect to the tree.

The phenomenon occurred in Singapore in September last year. It was caused
by a car accident which split open the bark of the tree to reveal two monkey-like
figures that resembled a smiling mother monkey with her little child.

News broke out when an anonymous person left a notice beside the tree,
stating that a monkey was searching for his father, the Monkey God, that had
been released by the accident. Believing it as a sign of good omen, people from
far and wide gathered at the tree to pray for good luck.”
______________________________________________________________

source and pix credits:
http://www.newsflavor.com/World/Asia/An-Unusual-Phenomenon-The-Monkey-Spirit-Tree-in-Singapore.246163

Now, while people may be fascinated by these apophenia so much so as to attack some “miracle” or religious significance to them, perhaps we may need to take our eyes off those types for now and focus on those other pareidolia that do not have (as yet) a religion made out of them. Yep – there are such simulacrum that do not bear religious insigna on them, but which nonetheless fascinate us with wonder as well. A few examples to the point:


COGNITIVE BIAS, APOPHENIA, or TYPE 1 ERROR?!? (4)


Kitten Born With Love-Heart

[img]http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/heart_kitten_2sfw.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/heart_kitten_3sfw.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/heart_kitten_4sfw.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/heart_kitten_5sfw.jpg[/img]

Picture credits: http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/kitten-with-a-whopping-huge-heart/offbeat-news



Piglet Born With Love-Heart

[img]http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/heart_piglet_1sfw.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/heart_piglet_2sfw.jpg[/img]

Picture credits: http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/kitten-with-a-whopping-huge-heart/offbeat-news



Puppy Born With Love-Heart







Credit: http://lumq.com/07/chihuahua-puppy-born-with-love-heart-pattern/

We next turn our gazes to the happenings in our galazies – those nebulous patterns that may amaze us in their own unique ways. I’m not aware of anyone as yet making a simulacra from them; but most of the images may look like a few familiar cognitive phenomena around us, especially when viewed at different scales. So, what are some of the examples of these nebulous bodies? Enjoy below:


APOPHENIA of the GALAXIES




Recognize anything here?




The “Eagle Nebula”


[img]http://www.daviddarling.info/images/Ant_Nebula.jpg[/img]

The “Ant Nebula” (Menzel 3)

You see what your eyes want to see.
.

Nimshi:

You see what your eyes want to see.

True.

Now while the reactions may be varied (as we have seen), no one can deny that these phenomena are quite striking. I mean, it is not everyday one sees the word "G-O-D" on the side of an alligator spelt so unmistakenly! Yet, that alone is insufficient reason for anyone to rever that alligator to such extent as to worship the creature. Romans 1:25 warns us against the attitude of those who "worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator" (Roman 1:25). Fascinating as they are, they should not distract us from knowing Who really is the One we worship.

Another phenomenon that some people have been investigating for a while now is that of the "Crop Circles"



source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/138718.stm


[img]http://www.dcca.nl/2008/standaardbuiten/1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.dcca.nl/2008/standaardbuiten/2.jpg[/img]

credit: http://www.dcca.nl/2008/standaardbuiten/standaardbuiten-uk.htm


Now, of course many people have their own explanations to these matters - some even calling it a hoax. Theories abound as to how some of these issues occur; some others clearly do not know how specifically to give a satisfactory answer to every single case.

For me, I would say that the reader should not be alarmed or unduely disturbed. I'm not suggesting I have answers; but for those who may not know and want to interpret just about every occurence of a simulacra to a religious "sign" and bend the knee, it's my hope that such friends would broaden their horizon and set their hearts where it should be.

Shalom.

well done pilgrim

are u just one person or a group that shares the same ID?

idupaul:

well done pilgrim

are u just one person or a group that shares the same ID?

@idupaul, lol. . . why do you say so?

pilgrim.1:

@idupaul, lol. . . why do you say so?

there is somting bout your line of tot, its really diverse.

its either u are one really pious and smart person or a good deciever.

i think i want to meet u in person cos u amaze me

idupaul:

there is somting bout your line of tot, its really diverse.

its either u are one really pious and smart person or a good deciever.

i think i want to meet u in person because u amaze me

Hahaha! That's quite a good one.
It's true - my thinking is quite diverse, and that's because I learned quite a lot from the people I encountered along my search for meaning in life and faith. One cannot live in a box, and when you encounter people who challenge your thinking with the "real" questions of the day, you have no alternative than to calm down and search for answers! I mean, really search!
Perhaps someday we shall have the fortune of meeting - never say never. But as far as "amazing" anyone is concerned, I would be shy to admit to that. Rather I always hold that the people I've met in life are the truly amazing people indeed.

Okay, just so that no one misunderstands why this thread, I can only say in few words:

Observe the patterns
they happen -
people see what they want to see
and they are not limited to just religious symbolisms

At the end of the day, let's understand something: there are "orphic" phenomena happening in our world.

Orphic (adj)
‘Having an import not apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence;
beyond ordinary understanding'

This was not to ridicule anyone; but as we observe these issues, we can at least appreciate that such things exist.

Cheers all.

Where you get all these pictures, Pilgrim?

Cute cats tho. Love the "love" sign.

LOL

Interesting

Yeah, Cute kittys

theopops:

Where you get all these pictures, Pilgrim?

Lol, them plenty for many websites. Hope you're doing great today?

It will be very stupid of people to still think there is nothing more to this life outside what our physical eyes can see.

The only prayer I can think of right now is: God let their eyes of understanding be opened to see the true and living GOD.

Okay, here's another one someone sent me by email:

Undeniable Proof of Real Aliens:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=azjP1Aw6NBw


NASA shows that signs of civilizations exist on Mars and the moon.

http://www.nme.com/video/id/azjP1Aw6NBw/search/ufos

Now, again I don't know the answers and am not going to even pretend one. This thread was to help us understand that there are phenomena happening in our real world that are "orphic" - [ie., "beyond ordinary understanding"]. As the comment above mine points out, it would be unhealthy for anyone to assume that there is nothing beyond this physical life. The better thing to do is not to be brash in seeking answers; but to understand that these matters humble us where our understanding fail.

As it is sometimes YouTube "policy" to delete some vids, please access those links sharp-sharp before they disappear!



Off-line: thank you to ["b-rent"] for sharing this by email with me. Of course, I could not have known before now.

Another Pareidolia?

There is another type of manifestation that many people have struggled to understand. This is quite different from the apparitions of religious icons, though; but it seems that while some have denounced them as hoaxes, others are asking that we hang on a bit and take a closer look at such phenomena. What does one make of such experiences as the one below?


           [size=14pt]Mysterious 'ghostly' face of child
      appears in mobile phone photo of teen pals[/size]

           By DANIEL BATES
           ___________________________________________________________________

           

            At first glance, it seems to be an ordinary snap of a group of young people. But look
            more carefully and there appears to be an extraordinary, ghostly presence among
            them. Peeping out between the knees of two of the girls is the face of a child.

            The eerie image - clear enough to show a pair of eyes, a nose, a mouth and hair -
            was captured by 17-year-old Matthew Summers on his mobile phone as he and his
            friends were preparing to go out. "I zoomed in to my sister's mate's little sister who
            was crying and I saw a face," Matthew said. "You can see all the facial expressions
            and everything."

            "Usually when you see pictures like that it's a blur but this one is really weird.I was
            really shocked because I don't believe in that stuff." Matthew took the picture in his
            sister's friend's front room in Billingham, Teesside. "I've sent it to my girlfriend and
            she thinks it's a bit weird," he added.

             However, Ciaran O'Keeffe, a parapsychologist on Living TV's Most Haunted show,
             has a more down-to-earth explanation for the "child" in Matthew's photograph.
             Dr O'Keeffe said: "As human beings we're very good at finding a pattern in
             randomness and related to that we're good at finding faces in randomness.
             The term for this is pareidolia. "First it was ink blots, then things like clouds in the sky
             and now mobile phone pictures. "There is no ghost in this picture, just the coincidental
             effect of pixelation and darkness and light which combine together."
           ___________________________________________________________________

           Source: Mail Online

This one's spooky.

@poster

There is nothing like alliens or that TV make belief. What you see is demons trying to come on earth Physically because they know their time is up so that can Prevent the true return of the son of God.

Backslider:

There is nothing like alliens or that TV make belief. What you see is demons trying to come on earth Physically because they know their time is up so that can Prevent the true return of the son of God.

Okay, at least that is one of the reactions to such things that I said will follow. As for me, I have often stated that I don't have the answers and am not going to pretend even one. What I don't know, I can't assert. The one thing is that these things happen - and people react to them.

Cheers.

idupaul:

This one's spooky.

I thought so as well.

pilgrim your really a bad person in the way you address issues and drive home your point. I have gone through most of your posts and i see you like to force your opinions down the throats of people and in the process use very caustic remarks to drive home your point. You really do not entertain diverse views or other people's opinions and it is either your way or the high way. Most of the time when people disagree with you, you never come to a compromise to accept a person's view and you resort to ascerbic modes of painting an issue that doesnt augur well with you.

Debates are all about learning and compromise. You really dont take no for an answer and you always want to be right at all cost no matter the price. I havent seen you criticize protestants the way you devote your time and energy to castigate Muslims. Coming from a former Moslem, you ought to at least take a softer approach to issues instead of waging an all out war on them. Sometimes i wonder what you are trying to prove? Must Moslems convert to christians at all costs? What are you really trying to prove? I read one post where you actually claimed to make the person a sacrificial ewe after your done with that poster? What manner of talk is that especially in a religious forum that should promote harmony?

I also read in one of your posts when you were about to be converted that you thought christianity was catholicism hence your aversion for them and contempt has been there way before you even converted. Thats no way to see things and be objective.

Sometimes i look at you christians and wonder why christians claim to be better than atheists when all i know about some of them is just pure vengeance and hatred towards other groups. I see a person like you and i wonder if i am suppose to be a christian, am i suppose to be like you in your way of thoughts and actions?

I'll rather not be in a group or faith that promotes this amount of hate and lack of objectivity in dealing with issues. I'll rather not be this aggressive and caustic in remarks when dealing with people from other faiths and i will rather not harbour such perennial hate for my neighbours just because i dont believe in their faith and wage an all out religious theoretical war to silence them.

The world will be a better place without people like you in respect of providing pain and sorrow to different faiths that dont conform with yours.

I have seen other people on this site that are less aggresive and drive home their point and somewhat try to create a balance of objectiveness. Even though they are wrong, they admit it without spewing venoms.

Why do you hate people from other denominations that doesnt conform with yours? I dont see you criticizing pastors of pentecostal churches but you take delight in slamming down the catholics and their popes.

What about atheists, you tend to always figure out that being a rationalist or freethinker is nonsense compared to your christianity. A person like huxley never attempts to insult but you choose to resort to sacarsm and point blank insults to prove a point. I was just reading a comment made by you about richard dawkins and what baffled me the most was that the way you bashed that guys book and person so venomously made me want to assume that he had done something to you in the past. Every body is entitled to be criticized but when emotions are put first in it, it no longer becomes a criticism but a personal issue.

You are way too personal in your attacks. I wonder if you have ever seen anything wrong in pastor adeboye, oyakhilome or david oyedepo or even your pastor. If you see nothing wrong in them but see everything wrong in Islam or catholicism then you are nothing but a charlatan and shouldnt be taken seriously but a rabble rouser.

What will tickle my fancy is if you can remember and post some of the articles or ideologies or caustic statements you used to tell christians and jews about jesus and the bible before you converted to christianity. That will be an interesting read and i am sure all the christians here would really appreciate you. But on a second thought, i know you wouldn't because you will like to maintain your new found christian fan base friends. I wonder what your christian fans would say if they see you demolishing jesus and the bible the way you used to do it years back then with so much aplomb and delight.

The thought of you insulting the bible and saying unprintable things and names about jesus is really killing me with laughter. I really wonder if just changing a relligion is enough to wash away all the terrible things you said about jesus and is enough to forgive you if there is really a jesus. All these biblical quotes you use to buttress your opinions i am sure were quotes you used to decapitate christians back then. I wish i was a passive observer during that period and i would have paid good money to watch you crumble the self esteem of christians then. How i wish time could reverse itself and make me witness that side show. I am sure you left them "badly bruised" as you eloquently use to state in the Muslim threads. How i wish davidylan, backslider, gamine, cgift and a host of all your new christian friends were at the recieving end then. It would have been a thing of joy to see their faces after they would have been sacrificial lambs for being christians Well they should count themselves extremely lucky that your in their camp now but they should'nt hold their breath because tomorrow could be different and no one knows when you would switch sides again and return with double vengeance once you no longer find the usefulness of christianity to you, lol

I know if i was a jesus and with all those bad, horrible and dispeakable things you said about him then, absolutely nothing would redeem you. You cannot continue to flip flop at your own time and pace and in between leave religions in tatters and go scot free. No god is that lenient not even the little i have read from the bible about the hebrew god. Paul is supposed to be a one off! Imagine if the whole world was a flip flopper like you, the amount of religious chaos would be insurmountable to withstand.

pussylover:

pilgrim your really a bad person in the way you address issues and drive home your point.

Thank you, I know who is talking. You don't have to be the only person disturbed about pilgrim.1, though. God bless you for seeing me as a bad person. Cheers.