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Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 1:55am On Aug 06, 2014 |
JesusisLord85: Jehovah is most popular way to pronounce it in english. Yahweh we could say is Hebrew, and we can take Jehovah as transliteration as it were. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by JesusisLord85: 9:59am On Aug 06, 2014 |
JMAN05: His name is I AM. Anyway I can understand why you would want a transliteration of certain names. However, why would you want to alter the name of the Most High? If you can cal Sadam, Mugabi, Ghandi, I wonder how YHWH became Jehovah. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:32pm On Aug 06, 2014 |
PastorAIO: I have said from the onset of this thread that translations are not inerrant the autographs are. Below is a quote that answers your query. "The prophets" or "Isaiah the prophet" in Mark 1:2? http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by PastorAIO: 4:37pm On Aug 06, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Even then this does not help your case as we do not have the Autographs. So therefore, nothing that we have today can be considered the inerrant text. That quote you posted is nothing but pure speculation with next to no basis. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 9:23pm On Aug 06, 2014 |
JesusisLord85: No one knows exactly how it is pronounced. In English, Jehovah is the first pronunciation derived from JHVH. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by JesusisLord85: 10:59pm On Aug 06, 2014 |
JMAN05: Isn't that interesting. I can understand why the real Israelites (our people) do not know the true pronunciation. It was prophesied he would cause us to forget. But the Edomite christians of Rome, how did they forget? I thought their new religion was started by Paul and spread throughout the earth. Who would want to transliterate the name of the Most High. Hmm. Devils |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:02pm On Aug 12, 2014 |
PastorAIO: Question: "Does the inerrancy of the Bible only apply to the original manuscripts?" Answer: This is truly a difficult issue to grasp. Only the original autographs (original manuscripts written by the apostles, prophets, etc.) are under the divine promise of inspiration and inerrancy. The books of the Bible, as they were originally written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20-21), were 100% inerrant, accurate, authoritative, and true. There is no Biblical promise that copies of the original manuscripts would equally be inerrant or free from copyist errors. As the Bible has been copied thousands of times over thousands of years, some copyist errors have likely occurred. How do we deal with this? First, it is important to remember that the biblical manuscripts we have today are in 99% agreement with one another. Yes, there are some minor differences, but the vast majority of the biblical text is identical from one manuscript to another. Most of the differences are in punctuation, word endings, minor grammatical issues, word order, etc. – issues easily explainable as scribal mistakes. No important theological or biblical issue is thrown into doubt by any supposed error or contradiction. Biblical manuscripts from the 15th century agree completely with manuscripts from the 3rd century. We can have absolute confidence that the Bible we have today is almost exactly identical to what the apostles and prophets wrote 2000+ years ago. Second, we should not be quick to say “Oh, that is just a scribal error.” The vast majority, if not all, of Bible “errors” can be explained in a logical and believable manner. Those that cannot by explained, or are very difficult to explain – could very well have an answer that we simply do not know at this point. Just because we cannot find a solution does not mean that a solution doesn’t exist. Believing there to be a scribal error must be the absolute last resort in any supposed Bible “error.” Ultimately, though, it is possible that errors have crept into our modern manuscripts and translations of the Bible. Copyists and translators are human beings and they make mistakes. The fact that the Bible is incredibly accurate is a testimony to its inspiration and preservation by God. Can we still trust the Bible? Absolutely! The Bible translations we have today are God’s Word. The Bible today is just as authoritative as it was in the 1st century A.D. We can completely trust the Bible as being God’s message to us today. Yes, the biblical promises of inspiration and inerrancy only apply directly to the original manuscripts. That does not impact, though, whether our modern Bibles are accurate and authoritative. God’s Word endures forever, despite the occasional failings and mistakes of copyists and translators. Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-inerrancy.html#ixzz3ABc2AL1z 1 Like |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by lepasharon(f): 5:56pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
^ that website is Lies.Can you believe they actually said Jesus was born on dec 25th ! LOL |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:21pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
lepasharon: You don't have to stretch the truth in order for you to make your point. Below is what the site said about Jesus' birthday. http://www.gotquestions.org/December-25.html |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:42pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
Sarassin:nowhere does scripture hint at this, actually the scriptures seem to portay as looked down upon. No tradition even hints such. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:48pm On Aug 14, 2014 |
Sarassin: or it simply means the writter of the fragment was simply ignorant of those books. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 9:33am On Aug 15, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: nowhere does scripture hint at this, actually the scriptures seem to portay as looked down upon. No tradition even hints such. True, scripture does not hint at Jesus having studied under Hillel, but if you take a sampling of sayings by Jesus in comparison to Hillel you will find in many cases they are identical. 1 Like |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 9:35am On Aug 15, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Quite plausible, but on the balance of probability I would say the author would be less likely to include the more obscure Jude as opposed to the writings of Peter the "Rock", just my opinion. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:34pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Larnelle Harris, a soloist, renders this Modern Version of 'Every Valley' from Handel's Messiah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k38KbHqiTdQ A rendition of Scripture songs as composed by Handel but modified and updated to the 21st century: " Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain." -- Isaiah 40:4 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:31pm On Aug 22, 2014 |
Question: "Why is it important to believe in biblical inerrancy?" Answer: We live in a time that tends to shrug its shoulders when confronted with error. Instead of asking, like Pilate, “What is truth?” postmodern man says, “Nothing is truth” or perhaps “There is truth, but we cannot know it.” We’ve grown accustomed to being lied to, and many people seem comfortable with the false notion that the Bible, too, contains errors. The doctrine of biblical inerrancy is an extremely important one because the truth does matter. This issue reflects on the character of God and is foundational to our understanding of everything the Bible teaches. Here are some reasons why we should absolutely believe in biblical inerrancy: 1. The Bible itself claims to be perfect. “And the words of the Lord are flawless, like silver refined in a furnace of clay, purified seven times” (Psalm 12:6). “The law of the Lord is perfect” (Psalm 19:7). “Every word of God is pure” (Proverbs 30:5 KJV). These claims of purity and perfection are absolute statements. Note that it doesn’t say God’s Word is “mostly” pure or scripture is “nearly” perfect. The Bible argues for complete perfection, leaving no room for “partial perfection” theories. 2. The Bible stands or falls as a whole. If a major newspaper were routinely discovered to contain errors, it would be quickly discredited. It would make no difference to say, “All the errors are confined to page three.” For a paper to be reliable in any of its parts, it must be factual throughout. In the same way, if the Bible is inaccurate when it speaks of geology, why should its theology be trusted? It is either a trustworthy document, or it is not. 3. The Bible is a reflection of its Author. All books are. The Bible was written by God Himself as He worked through human authors in a process called “inspiration.” “All scripture is God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16). See also 2 Peter 1:21 and Jeremiah 1:2. We believe that the God who created the universe is capable of writing a book. And the God who is perfect is capable of writing a perfect book. The issue is not simply “Does the Bible have a mistake?” but “Can God make a mistake?” If the Bible contains factual errors, then God is not omniscient and is capable of making errors Himself. If the Bible contains misinformation, then God is not truthful but is instead a liar. If the Bible contains contradictions, then God is the author of confusion. In other words, if biblical inerrancy is not true, then God is not God. 4. The Bible judges us, not vice versa. “For the word of God...judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart” (Hebrews 4:12). Notice the relationship between “the heart” and “the Word.” The Word examines; the heart is being examined. To discount parts of the Word for any reason is to reverse this process. We become the examiners, and the Word must submit to our “superior insight.” Yet God says, “But who are you, O man, to talk back to God?” (Romans 9:20). 5. The Bible’s message must be taken as a whole. It is not a mixture of doctrine that we are free to select from. Many people like the verses that say God loves them, but they dislike the verses that say God will judge sinners. But we simply cannot pick and choose what we like about the Bible and throw the rest away. If the Bible is wrong about hell, for example, then who is to say it is right about heaven—or about anything else? If the Bible cannot get the details right about creation, then maybe the details about salvation cannot be trusted either. If the story of Jonah is a myth, then perhaps so is the story of Jesus. On the contrary, God has said what He has said, and the Bible presents us a full picture of who God is. “Your word, O Lord, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens” (Psalm 119:89). 6. The Bible is our only rule for faith and practice. If it is not reliable, then on what do we base our beliefs? Jesus asks for our trust, and that includes trust in what He says in His Word. John 6:67-69 is a beautiful passage. Jesus had just witnessed the departure of many who had claimed to follow Him. Then He turns to the twelve apostles and asks, “You do not want to leave too, do you?” At this, Peter speaks for the rest when he says, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.” May we have the same trust in the Lord and in His words of life. None of what we have presented here should be taken as a rejection of true scholarship. Biblical inerrancy does not mean that we are to stop using our minds or accept what the Bible says blindly. We are commanded to study the Word (2 Timothy 2:15), and those who search it out are commended (Acts 17:11). Also, we recognize that there are difficult passages in the Bible, as well as sincere disagreements over interpretation. Our goal is to approach Scripture reverently and prayerfully, and when we find something we do not understand, we pray harder, study more, and—if the answer still eludes us—humbly acknowledge our own limitations in the face of the perfect Word of God. Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Biblical-inerrancy.html#ixzz3B8RrcU96 1 Like |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Ubenedictus(m): 4:59pm On Aug 22, 2014 |
Sarassin: this isn't a matter of who wrote what book... The issue is clear from the writting of the early church fathers that some books circulated slower than others 2pt and even revelations just to name a few. Till this date the Russian orthodox church doesn't read the book of revelation in liturgy, not because it wasn't writting by the apostle john but because it didn't circulate to the russian church. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 8:55pm On Aug 22, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: It would be more apt to state that some texts were more readilly accepted than others. 1 and 2 Peter for instance are more "Pauline" in tone and nature, they fit nothing that we know about Peter from better sources. The Apocalypse of John has its own fair share of controversy, as you well know, Eusebius had his own reservations about its apostolic authorship and Jerome outrightly relegated it. It is these controversies that likely led to these works being ciculated slower.... |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 8:19pm On Aug 23, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: "And The Glory of the Lord." - Sandi Patty from 'the New Young Messiah' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9g-IB0mbGI A rendition of Scripture songs as composed by Handel but modified and updated to the 21st century: "And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it." -- Isaiah 40:5 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:53pm On Sep 12, 2014 |
Sarassin:would you like to present the relevant traditions? |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:16am On Sep 13, 2014 |
O Thou that Tellest Good Tidings to Zion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UL31xlG9Qhk "O thou that tellest good tidings to Zion, get thee up on a high mountain; O thou that tellest good tidings to Jerusalem, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold, your God!" -- Isaiah 40:9 (American Standard Version) "Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee!" -- Isaiah 60:1 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 1:09pm On Sep 15, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: I would be happy to oblige if you clarify what you are asking of me. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:58pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
"He Shall Feed His Flock." - Steven Curtis Chapman and Sandi Patty from the New Young Messiah Tour, 1994. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRagPpYTkIA "He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young." -- Isaiah 40:11 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." -- Matthew 11::28-30 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Ubenedictus(m): 5:26pm On Sep 16, 2014 |
Sarassin: sorry, i mean i'll like you to provide quotes from the church fathers you mentioned to prove your point. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by solotutu(m): 3:34am On Sep 17, 2014 |
Il like to say that God did inspire all these men thru time and space. Now if all of them were educated men, today we would even doubt further that it was a crafted book. But God chose men with low/ without education and the way it was written/ accuracy and also fufillments shows that they werent writing with their own fingers, something was definitely moving them-God's Spirit. Paul and Luke were the only two educated in d new testament. So inspiration is so so sure. And as for differenr versions. We all know monetary gain is the priority by those doing it. One of the top publishers of one of the versions we have today died a drug addict. So acceptability.... KJV |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 2:38pm On Sep 17, 2014 |
Ubenedictus: Certainly, if you excuse the length of my post. With regards to the apocalypse of John; Eusebius wrote that in his day (early 4th century) in the Eastern church the status of the Book of Revelation was in dispute; H.E 3.24.17,18 17. But of the writings of John, not only his Gospel, but also the former of his epistles, has been accepted without dispute both now and in ancient times. But the other two are disputed. 18. In regard to the Apocalypse, the opinions of most men are still divided. But at the proper time this question likewise shall be decided from the testimony of the ancients. Eusebius also informs there were two tombs in Ephesus both identified as John's. In Eusebius' view, this pointed to the conclusion that there were two men in Ephesus by the name of John, the apostle and John the elder. H.E.3.39.6 6. This shows that the statement of those is true, who say that there were two persons in Asia that bore the same name, and that there were two tombs in Ephesus, each of which, even to the present day, is called John’s It is important to notice this. For it is probable that it was the second, if one is not willing to admit that it was the first that saw the Revelation, which is ascribed by name to John Eusebius also records Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria’s observations that there were significant differences between the Gospel of John and the letters on the one hand, and the Book of Revelation, on the other, too many, in his opinion, to allow for the attribution of authorship to John. The reasons for the objections to the acceptance of the book of revelations were not merely doubts about apostolic authorship, there were other considerations too, for instance; The Synod of Laodicea rejected the book and did not list it among their canon. St.Cyril of Jerusalem, (Bishop of Jerusalem) produced a canon list similar to that of the Laodicean council and advised in his catechetical Lectures, iv. 33-37, that “the omission of Revelation from his list is due to a general reaction against this book in the east after excessive use was made of it by the Montanist cults”. (As a digression) Montanism, also known as the Cataphrygian Heresy and the New Prophecy, was a heretical movement that arose in the Christian Church in Asia Minor, in the 2nd century. Led by Montanus, it relied heavily on the symbolism and allegory of the Book of revelations, one could say it was the fore-runner of modern day spiritual churches, millennial end-time teachings and material well-being. Their practices included “falling into trances to begin to prophesy under the influence of the spirit”, Montanus also claimed to be the voice of the Holy Spirit. It flourished in the West, principally under the leadership of Tertullian in the 3rd century. Finally the Bishops of Asia Minor gathered in synods and finally excommunicated the Montanists around 177CE The reformist Martin Luther in his “Preface to the Revelation of St. John” was adamant in rejecting the book, stating “I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.” The Catholic Encyclopaedia tells us about St. Jerome. "in the West the Church persevered in its tradition of apostolic authorship. St. Jerome alone seemed to have been influenced by the doubts of the East". Authorship disputes were quite clear, in addition to theological disputes, cheers. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:22am On Sep 18, 2014 |
Sarassin:this simply say opinions are divided, this particular quote doesn't say anything about authorship H.E.3.39.6this deals with authorship but seem hardly definitive Eusebius also records Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria’s observations that there were significant differences between the Gospel of John and the letters on the one hand, and the Book of Revelation, on the other, too many, in his opinion, to allow for the attribution of authorship to John.you didnt provide the quote The reasons for the objections to the acceptance of the book of revelations were not merely doubts about apostolic authorship, there were other considerations too, for instance;ok and i know of montanism, the digression made ur post pretty long The reformist Martin Luther in his “Preface to the Revelation of St. John” was adamant in rejecting the book, stating “I can in no way detect that the Holy Spirit produced it.” luther has an interesting number of grey books. Authorship disputes were quite clear, in addition to theological disputes, cheers. so i have finished picking hairs... I have to agree that authorship played a part in the non acceptance of some books, though i'm a bit suprised that the quotes you presented hardly seem definitive. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by Nobody: 1:16pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
Ubenedictus All well and good. The premise was to highlight doubts about authorship of some books of the NT, the book of revelations being one. Proving the book is forged or pseudonymous is another issue entirely. You can see the disposition of Dionysius at[i] H.E. 7.25[/i] for more definitive reasoning behind his doubts. I left that out for brevity. |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 1:43pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Isaiah's prophecy is as fresh as tomorrow's newspaper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mESAEMTQ6J0 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:09pm On Sep 18, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLU_yuMI24 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:12pm On Sep 30, 2014 |
Is the Bible still inerrant after translation?
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Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:36pm On Oct 18, 2014 |
"Surely he hath Borne our griefs." - Steve Green, Larnelle Harris and Michael English. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc0EL7JyvQc "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." -- Isaiah 53:4-5 |
Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by OLAADEGBU(m): 12:18pm On Oct 28, 2014 |
OLAADEGBU: Isaiah 53:4-5 relived and remixed in this classical song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3FifIOnovg |
Jesus Christ lives forevermore, hallelujah! / Forgiveness And Grace, A Video Everybody Must Watch / The Fail-safe Way For You To Receive The Holy Spirit.
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