pickabeau1:

Seems you guys have some past beef

Not at all, never met him before. In fact I question how often he speaks to others like this on NL. The guy needs some home training from an ifa priest.

kingston277:
Not at all, never met him before. In fact I question how often he speaks to others like this on NL. The guy needs some home training from an ifa priest.

Not speaking for anyone....
Generally the afro centrics on NL tend to be very rude and have a superiority complex

In africa people r all trying to eat.. culture comes second

kingston277:
Africans built ships like that all the time...

but thats east Africa it more sense since you're at the world trade routes. while it west africa it was rivers

pickabeau1:

Typical....

just because you live like this


and they live like this


does not mean you are greater than them

TerryCarr:
but thats east Africa it more sense since you're at the world trade routes. while it west africa it was rivers

Those are sierra leone pictures.

pickabeau1:
Not speaking for anyone....
Generally the afro centrics on NL tend to be very rude and have a superiority complex

Some are, due to the wild achievement claims they believe in, while others just don't like people insulting their forefathers especially if they have built advanced civilizations.

In africa people r all trying to eat.. culture comes second

Culture is an integral way of development. I'm sure the pic of those kids I posted would love to live in those houses and eat the abundance of food they have.

kingston277:
Those are sierra leone pictures.

your not gonna cross the Atlantic in a boat that big & there world be no reason too.


plus it is probably a fishing boat or a river boat

kingston277:
Some are, due to the wild achievement claims they believe in, while others just don't like people insulting their forefathers especially if they have built advanced civilizations.


Culture is an integral way of development. I'm sure the pic of those kids I posted would love to live in those houses and eat the abundance of food they have.

Yes,... africa had great civilisations... i know this and this should be celebrated and taught in schools
If you dont know where you are coming from, how can you know where you are going....

However some of their attitude leaves much to be desired

pickabeau1:

Yes,... africa had great civilisations... i know this and this should be celebrated and taught in schools
If you dont know where you are coming from, how can you know where you are going....

However some of their attitude leaves much to be desired

like what? Rome was no saint, a lot of things they did was pretty cruel but they are still glorified.

TerryCarr:
like what? Rome was no saint, a lot of things they did was pretty cruel but they are still glorified.

Dude who spoke of Rome
Some of the Afrocentrics here like you..with offensive language

pickabeau1:

Seems you guys have some past beef


Culture issues tend to be subjective however

He obviously has a beef with Today's Africans. Let him state his issues clearly rather than quoting people and being argumentative.

Fulaman198:

That's not what Kingston is saying.

He is asking why have Africans gone backwards? They used to build buildings of greatness and today they have regressed instead of progressed. Why he is asking? Our ancestors he says were far greater in their accomplishments. That is the point of his argument.

And has he given any suggestion/recommendation to africa's current problem? Is migration the answer?

Let me re quote what i said earlier...

Survival first

What has surprsed me is that no one has mentioned anything about the intangibles which is even more than clothes and feeding
This is what the extremist afrocentrics dont get

Values is what determines culture

TYoday we know of the doggedness of the Japanese who rose from the ashes of WW2 and rebilt their nation
Was it becuase of the kimono and samurai swords?? .. puhleezeee

This is my last post here as dudes here are rude and caustic

pickabeau1:

OK...seems the issue was the mind set
People looking down on their culture..?


Then you should look beyond the symptoms and deal with the issue

Its a power game
The conquering culture sets the pace

Globalisation, common language, IMF..

The Chinese had to bring their own money to the table to be heard...
Without that they were seen as primitive

Until you understand this...

kingston277:
You dare call Adefunmi a wannabe? Maybe you don't like reading links that directly answer your questions, but others reading this thread need the information to help make their personal, educated decisions. So I will keep posting regardless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adefunmi


I have traveled enough thank you very much. And if you think the situation in the Caribbean is different than in Africa, then you seriously need a wake-up call because shouldn't be talking down on your fellow African descendants. The imf/cia are on our governments backs too and were responsible for the downfall of the Haitian power, so I really don't appreciate your condescending tone. Plus it doesn't help your cause or ours by portraying your continent as a charity-case the way you've been going on, we all have the power to improve.

Go and read about the history and culture of the itshekiri's. Till today, they do not call themselves yorubas even though they bare slighty yoruba names and slightly speak yoruba. Also read about the current culture of the yoruba community in brazil who settled there after the slave trade,read on whether they've advanced so far and see if their culture has not been tinted with the Brazilian culture(s). Then watch what will happen to that small village in U.S from the next 50-100 years. If a culture has to be promoted, its best done from home. Adefunmi should have gone back home but he chose to dilute his culture by establishing it on a foreign soil. You think that village will not be subject to western influence on the long run? Regarding your last statement, I don't know what you are talking about. Your insinuations are based on unreasonable assumptions!

kingston277:
Development simply means adopting of technologies. Thats like saying the Greeks adopted Sumerian culture because the wheel came from Sumer.

I will simply ignore the rest of your baseless comments but would like to seek evidence of this "reasonable" level of western influence the Chinese allegedly possess. I noticed you skipped over Saudi Arabia too because you're well aware everything they do is Arab.

And who told you I skipped Saudi Arabia, did I not say in my earlier post that the arabians have one language and one religion-Islam that makes it easier for them to stick to their dressing and islamic culture regardless of their technological advancements? Can you compare them to africa or nigeria?It seems you have issues communicating effectively and comprehending points simply because you have differing opinions. Call it baseless-I DON'T CARE! Regarding western influence on china, I don't have video links because I'm encouraging you to read more. If you like, call these articles baseless. loooool. www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/A-More-Western-China-4-Areas-Where-the-West-Has-Impacted-China www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world-jan-june12-china_02-13/

kingston277:
Not at all, never met him before. In fact I question how often he speaks to others like this on NL. The guy needs some home training from an ifa priest.

oh, but its okay for you to be arrogant and ignorant about basically everything. Your narrow mindedness is appalling. Sounding more like a bigot now. What else should we know about the canadian wanabe?

kingston277:
Not at all, never met him before. In fact I question how often he speaks to others like this on NL. The guy needs some home training from an ifa priest.

oh, but its okay for you to be arrogant and ignorant about basically everything. Your narrow mindedness is appalling. Sounding more like a bigot now. What else should we know about the canadian wanabe?

TerryCarr:
your not gonna cross the Atlantic in a boat that big & there world be no reason too.


plus it is probably a fishing boat or a river boat

They have made the trip to Spain and the Canaries several times before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXU28K1gTpc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540084/Canary-Islands-illegal-immigrants-heading-here-Home-Office-memo-warns.html
Visitors in the 19th century confirmed they are sea-faring vessels
https://www.nairaland.com/1796503/traditional-african-boat-designs
Heck, the Oba of Benin even used to sail to the Kongo for meetings.

koyyes: And who told you I skipped Saudi Arabia, did I not say in my earlier post that the arabians have one language and one religion-Islam that makes it easier for them to stick to their dressing and islamic culture regardless of their technological advancements? Can you compare them to africa or nigeria?It seems you have issues communicating effectively and comprehending points simply because you have differing opinions. Call it baseless-I DON'T CARE! Regarding western influence on china, I don't have video links because I'm encouraging you to read more. If you like, call these articles baseless. loooool. www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/A-More-Western-China-4-Areas-Where-the-West-Has-Impacted-China www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world-jan-june12-china_02-13/

What difference does that make? It's about Saudi Arabia vs. the West. Who cares if they borrow clothes from neighbours, that wasn't even in your argument.
And those links tell us nothing about western influence in China. Again, borrowing inventions and restaurant chains do not constitute being influenced. China just finished banning western video game consoles and television, So I don't think chowing down on Mcfries is going to transform them in something unrecognizable to traditionalists. Thats if they even change at all.

koyyes: oh, but its okay for you to be arrogant and ignorant about basically everything. Your narrow mindedness is appalling. Sounding more like a bigot now. What else should we know about the canadian wanabe? oh, but its okay for you to be arrogant and ignorant about basically everything. Your narrow mindedness is appalling. Sounding more like a bigot now. What else should we know about the canadian wanabe?

It gets funnier every time. Still waiting for your peer-reviewed sources to back up your claims.

koyyes: And has he given any suggestion/recommendation to africa's current problem? Is migration the answer?

Since you are hell bent on your unfounded opinions. How could I make suggestions that I could expect you to pay any attention to?
The links are non-debatable by historians and make you look silly.

pickabeau1: Let me re quote what i said earlier...

Survival first

What has surprsed me is that no one has mentioned anything about the intangibles which is even more than clothes and feeding
This is what the extremist afrocentrics dont get

Values is what determines culture

TYoday we know of the doggedness of the Japanese who rose from the ashes of WW2 and rebilt their nation
Was it becuase of the kimono and samurai swords?? .. puhleezeee

This is my last post here as dudes here are rude and caustic

no it was there cultural mentality & and American money. India is dirt but they still value there culture. and it's not just clothes it's also language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLfPuc6_2OI

kingston277:
What difference does that make? It's about Saudi Arabia vs. the West. Who cares if they borrow clothes from neighbours, that not even in the argument.
And those links tell us nothing about western influence in China. Again, borrowing inventions and restaurant chains do not constitute being influenced. China just finished banning western video game consoles and television, So I don't think chowing down on Mcfries is going to transform them in something unrecognizable to traditionalists. Thats if they even change at all.

I never used the 'word' unrecognizable! Stop exergerating to prove your point!If their clothing today doesn't depict some level of western influence to you, then that's your cup of tea!

kingston277:
It gets funnier every time. Still waiting for your peer-reviewed sources to back up your claims.

just as amusing as the bunch of lies you've spewed to show how silly you are.

kingston277:
It gets funnier every time. Still waiting for your peer-reviewed sources to back up your claims.

just as amusing as the bunch of lies you've spewed to show how silly you are.

kingston277:
Since you are hell bent on your unfounded opinions. How could I make suggestions that I could expect you to pay any attention to?
The links are non-debatable by historians and make you look silly.

Just admit it- you have no recommendation because you lack pure knowledge and can't even comprehend the information in the links you've pasted here. Sad though!

pickabeau1:

Dude who spoke of Rome
Some of the Afrocentrics here like you..with offensive language

you don't value cultures to much do you? excluding the Americas most African nations are probably the most "Westernized" places ever with a third world twist. going to a Asian nation (rich or poor) is like is not a whole other experience. the sad fact is nobody goes to Africa experience cultures, or history (unless it's Egypt) they go to see the lions. most Asia nations on the other head is a culture shock. anyway Africans need to find a African solution to a African problem.
Bhutan is an interesting nation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcoQjoZ6toI

koyyes: I never used the 'word' unrecognizable! Stop exergerating to prove your point!If their clothing today doesn't depict some level of western influence to you, then that's your cup of tea!

I can put on kente cloth if I like. Still doesn't make me anymore African influenced than before I put it on. You have a weird perception of how people think, the Chinese aren't as ignorant of their culture as you.

kingston277:
I can put on kente cloth if I like. Still doesn't make me anymore African influenced than before I put it on. You have a weird perception of how people think, the Chinese aren't as ignorant of their culture as you.

You sound like a stark illiterate right now. Your lack of understanding about what western influence means is so bad that I'm beginning to doubt your sanity!

Insulting others you know nothing of is that cultural?

koyyes: Just admit it- you have no recommendation because you lack pure knowledge and can't even comprehend the information in the links you've pasted here. Sad though!

The links have all the answers for you. But since you insist, I will explain scholarly views and I will post links/quotes to back them up. I hope you're learning.

koyyes: @ op, you are absolutely right about your observation. I think every thing has do to with the inherited ancient african attitude which grew into a culture.

Firstly, there is no evidence that what can be observed today is a product of the pre-colonial era. This is a eurocentric, colonial-educated assumption stemming from the perceived idea that the colonialists can do no wrong as well as the idea that African cultures are not dynamic and didn't change customs and practices through the colonial era. An educated poster diagnoses this percewption people like you hold:

RandomAfricanAm: @kingston277
Thumbs up to you. That said you are going to run into the same problems with the self haters over and over. Typical broad issues are...
1. The attempt of translating African ideas/institutions into incompatible European intellectual containers.
2. A poor(lopsided) grasp of the general history of Humans and their activity through time.
3. A poor ability to process historical knowledge of Human activity through time to make insightful descriptions of todays society.
4. Misguided rationalizations exacerbated by issues #1-3 above.
5. Dogged stubbornness brought on by the idea that "I didn't come to this conclusion by an emotional fit, I came to a rational well thought-out conclusion". This being done under the more fundamental issue noted in #4
6. A poor "spiritual/emotional" relationship with the topic under discussion brought on by personal observation(school/real world) of that topic. While the rationalization serves as justification for the stated position; the spiritual relationship mediates which rationalization was stated in the first place.

In fact this fits you perfectly.

All kinds of negative practises can emerge especially without the over-sight of the Kings and sage philosophers(http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/african-sage/) whos job was to maintain cultural standards to prevent culture/religious corruption (like ritual killings which sprang up in the colonial era) so as not to stoop to barbaric levels which they abhorred.

Pg. 93+
http://books.google.ca/books?id=XsHB69txxdEC&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=The+Man-Eating+Myth+africa&source=bl&ots=DGbLRRuIYX&sig=mkJbaw2nqGh6eQz3A9D6rENRibk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d_jGU9qHKoGTyAToxYLoDg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
Most cultures had sages to preserve reason behind all practices. A good people to ask about indigenous religion are pagan9ja, macof and FOLYKAZE, I learned alot about the true reason behind religious practices like human sacrifice which was actually capital punishment for the kingdoms most devious criminals. An online book I read confirmed this.

African's do not believe in equality- and when I say equality, I'm not primarily talking about gender equality. I'm referring to that between every free born individual.

Would you care to elaborate on this because this article says otherwise
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf

A typical African believes in slavery and sole power/authority. He/ she does not believe that a good leader is actually a 'servant' of the people.

Care to back up your claims? There are numerous domumentations of citizens in the pre-colonial times possessing the power to uproot the monarchy if it degenerated in tyranny. I recall there was an example in what is now rwanda.

African democracies: Although the political system of Buganda was based on kingship, it was apparently a representative monarchy in which parliament and the prime minister not only ensured representation according to the concept of modern democracy but also limited the powers of the king to avoid tyranny. Commentators on African indigenous systems usually ignore these in-built democratic values of representation and checks and balances that forestalled tyranny as well as ensured the participation of the people in government. While the Buganda system might easily be dismissed as undemocratic by Western political theorists, they would have no qualms in applauding the British monarchical structure as an ideal form of democracy. The reasons for this premeditated contradiction and hypocrisy can be placed squarely on the concept of the civilizing mission, the white man’s burden, and the argumentation put forward in the subsequent session.

more here:
http://upress.kent.edu/Nieman/Concepts_of_Democracy.htm
Seems you are wrong again, Koyyes.

That's why our so called leaders don't give a damn about the educational system and speedy economic development. They rather encourage poverty, unemployment, prostitution and brain drain( individuals with potentials finding opportunities abroad than at home which I see as modern day slavery) to prevent people from becoming empowered so they can remain in servitude to them. This attitude isn't just found among political leaders, it is every where, everyone wants to dominate- men, women ,even children(if you've ever attended a boarding school). We really need to change!!!

Because todays Africans do not care for improvements but, instead, like to imitate Europe.

kingston277:
The links have all the answers for you. But since you insist, I will explain scholarly views and I will post links/quotes to back them up. I hope you're learning.


Firstly, there is no evidence that what can be observed today is a product of the pre-colonial era. This is a eurocentric, colonial-educated assumption stemming from the perceived idea that the colonialists can do no wrong as well as the idea that African cultures are not dynamic and didn't change customs and practices through the colonial era. An educated poster diagnoses this percewption people like you hold:

In fact this fits you perfectly.

All kinds of negative practises can emerge especially without the over-sight of the Kings and sage philosophers(http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/african-sage/) whos job was to maintain cultural standards to prevent culture/religious corruption (like ritual killings which sprang up in the colonial era) so as not to stoop to barbaric levels which they abhorred.

Pg. 93+
http://books.google.ca/books?id=XsHB69txxdEC&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=The+Man-Eating+Myth+africa&source=bl&ots=DGbLRRuIYX&sig=mkJbaw2nqGh6eQz3A9D6rENRibk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=d_jGU9qHKoGTyAToxYLoDg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q&f=false
Mozt cultures had sages to preserve reason behind all practices. A good people to ask about indigenous religion are pagan9ja, macof and FOLYKAZE, I learned alot about the true reason behind religious practices like human sacrifice which was actually capital punishment for the kingdoms most devious criminals. An online book I read confirmed this.

African's do not believe in equality- and when I say equality, I'm not primarily talking about gender equality. I'm referring to that between every free born individual.
Would you care to elaborate on this because this article says otherwise
http://www.kentlaw.edu/faculty/bbrown/classes/HumanRightsSP10/CourseDocs/9BanjulCharterandtheAfricanCulturalFingerprint.pdf

A typical African believes in slavery and sole power/authority. He/ she does not believe that a good leader is actually a 'servant' of the people.
Care to back up your claims? There are numerous domumentations of citizens in the pre-colonial times possessing the power to uproot the monarchy if it degenerated in tyranny. I recall there was an example in what is now rwanda.
Although the political system of Buganda was based on kingship, it was apparently a representative monarchy in which parliament and the prime minister not only ensured representation according to the concept of modern democracy but also limited the powers of the king to avoid tyranny. Commentators on African indigenous systems usually ignore these in-built democratic values of representation and checks and balances that forestalled tyranny as well as ensured the participation of the people in government. While the Buganda system might easily be dismissed as undemocratic by Western political theorists, they would have no qualms in applauding the British monarchical structure as an ideal form of democracy. The reasons for this premeditated contradiction and hypocrisy can be placed squarely on the concept of the civilizing mission, the white man’s burden, and the argumentation put forward in the subsequent session.
more here:
http://upress.kent.edu/Nieman/Concepts_of_Democracy.htm
Seems you are wrong again, Koyyes.

That's why our so called leaders don't give a damn about the educational system and speedy economic development. They rather encourage poverty, unemployment, prostitution and brain drain( individuals with potentials finding opportunities abroad than at home which I see as modern day slavery) to prevent people from becoming empowered so they can remain in servitude to them. This attitude isn't just found among political leaders, it is every where, everyone wants to dominate- men, women ,even children(if you've ever attended a boarding school). We really need to change!!!
Because todays Africans do not care for improvements but, instead, to imitate Europe.

LIES! LIES! LIES! You shouldn't have wasted your time on this empty epistle. You were almost right about your last statement but as usual, you had to ruin it by saying that most africans' imitate Europe' because if we really do that, we would be far ahead today. Besides, you perfectly fit the description given by Randomafricanam. You just don't know it yet! Infact, I don't even think you deserve to be heard on this thread after posting this shit below on NL- ''........Sorry, but fabricating history and throwing blame for today's issues caused by both colonialism and you and your lazy, like-minded countrymen on your(and my) hardworking forefathers who fought tooth and nail to preserve the kingdoms they governed and commenced high-productivity projects to generate wealth for the economy is not love, that is called being irresponsible. the fact that Nigerians can't take responsibility for their mistakes and would rather blame it on someones Grandpa in the 19th century says alot about your level of development. Our forefathers worked wonders, establishing human rights, organizing agricultural and metallurgy projects, openness to adopting any kind of knowledge that would in-turn help them advance further than they already spent the millennia doing. Please learn to stop turning up your nose to foreword thinking people, then maybe you will see improvements.'' I GUESS TO YOU, NIGERIANS ARE LAZY!

kingston277:
I can put on kente cloth if I like. Still doesn't make me anymore African influenced than before I put it on. You have a weird perception of how people think, the Chinese aren't as ignorant of their culture as you.

the Chinese gov is killing there culture

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VITZ-Oyy9Os

but it still lives on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK4raZ2XU7M&list=UU-75WOSwKtvzlY3USMYYFBg