bigass:

You days will be long, Wow

wow.. good prayer for a good Sunday
Thank you
aint a pharmacist btw,

ogawisdom:

Nigeria is nt canada

Thats the way forward I am a doctor but i believe if well trained, a Pharmacist should be more knowledgeable in drug prescription than doctors. common these guys spend 5 yrs studying drugs

bjtinz:

lol! Your babe dey deny you punny/?

funny i know of some doctors married to nurses and pharmacist. I wonder if Na so Dem go fight for house. .

among the health people, Na nurses fine pass with dia big yanshes which they always shake. Followed by pharmacists, but una dokinta babes dey worwor shaa

.Interesting.UCH doctors perform a succesful cardiac surgery in the first ever Nigerian that is 7-months old.Read more here: wyne1..nl/2014/07/good-job-uch-doctors-uch-doctors.html?m=1

adeoladrg:

Okay, I graduate from a pharmacy school, undergo the compulsory internship and NYSC. Then I got a job in a teaching hospital. While at that, I applied to the West African Postgraduate College of Pharmacy for a specialty in say Paediatrics or CVD. I spend 6 years undergoing the process and graduate from the college.

I noticed you medical doctors are emphasizing the nursing home thing, that's misplaced thinking. The advent of consultant pharmacy started in nursing home, yes! But the roles of consultant pharmacists have since expanded.

You said this urself:

Consultant Pharmacists are now practicing in a
wide variety of other settings, including subacute
care and assisted living facilities, psychiatric
hospitals, hospice programs, and in home and
community-based care --

Go to YouTube and see what obtains, and let me clear another misconception you guys have held on tightly to.

Been a consultant pharmacist doesn't destroy the doctor-patient link. The doctor everywhere is the owner of the patient, as u like to say it. It only makes pharmacist more knowledgeable and be a force in his specialty. Never have I seen or heard that a consultant pharmacist changed a prescription, never! It's not allowed. You guys never even bothered to ask what the synergistic effect takes place. The practice is to confer recommendations on the prescription(myt be change in dose or suggest a more effective drug or delete an unnecessary drug, or correct drug interactions, suggest alternative therapy and lot of other things) with good reason and document the intervention. I tell you what? A doctor must therefore be cocksure of his prescription b4 the pharmacist comes to scrutinize. Those documented interventions are even more dangerous for the arrogant doctors cos if anything worse happens to the patient and the consultant pharmacist decides to publish his recommendation that wasn't taken by the doctor, he could lose his job or even his license.

Meanwhile, it's feel different when a doctor seeks an opinion from a consultant pharmacist, other than an ordinary pharmacist who just dispenses.

That's the reality of things. Our doctors want to boss everything, now tell me how this is unnecessary and won't help patient care.

Is the "ordinary pharmacist's" job ONLY to DISPENCE?
The key word in all this is ADVICE, are our CONSULTANT PHARMACISTS ready ADVISE or will they enter wards and start cancelling prescription or even worst open shops and start consulting patients?

bigass:

When did pharmacist become a title?. You are Mr Sesan Kareem.

lolz

ogawisdom:

Nigeria is nt canada

but wen it come to comparing salaries, u choose to forget dat right? Keep living in denial. Change as come, just face it and let it hit u hard.[url]

ogawisdom:

Nigeria is nt canada

but wen it come to comparing salaries, u choose to forget dat right? Keep living in denial. Change as come, just face it and let it hit u hard.[/url]

ogawisdom:

Nigeria is nt canada

but wen it come to comparing salaries, u choose to forget dat right? Keep living in denial. Change as come, just face it and let it hit u hard.

joker5180:
Is the "ordinary pharmacist's" job ONLY to DISPENCE?
The key word in all this is ADVICE, are our CONSULTANT PHARMACISTS ready ADVISE or will they enter wards and start cancelling prescription or even worst open shops and start consulting patients?

your ignorance is appalling. You need mental redemption.

adeoladrg:

You brought a brilliant argument, which I expected from a brilliant doctor.

About them consulting, you need to know that consultant status is not exclusively for therapeutic fields, it's very diverse. From community to industry to the psychiatric homes to the hospitals.

Somehow, I'm disappointed with your 7th paragraph. If you were a MD, you would know what they call therapeutic monitoring. I admit it's strange to you Nigerian medics that why I'm not surprised by your ignorant contributions.

The key part of your argument says:
Remember the pharmacist is not making the diagnosis and even if he is brought to see every patient for himself, he isn't trained as a doctor to know the pathophysiology, progression, complications and even varying presentations of the same condition!

Yes! Pharmacists are trained in pathology, pathophysiology, progression, complications of the conditions. For those that acquired the PharmD degree. Then undergoing residency is even more training in that same aspect. Pls use Google!

Therapeutic pharmacy has always been an important part of pharmaceutical practice involving pharmaceutical studies and researches within the hospital and clinical trials of various drugs, I would be quite astonished if that has never been within the Nigerian curriculum. But these are different from what I see our dear pharmacists agitating for.

I believe therapeutic pharmacy is what pharmD is all about. But it has always been a part or subspecialty of pharmacy, Why make a big deal out of it? Cos Americans called theirs pharmd? Why can't we incorporate this aspect of pharmacy as a subspecialty in our pharmacy curriculum if indeed it hasn't been so in the past?

It will always be a welcome development to see our pharmacists advance in their various fields/specialties of pharmacy, but interfering with doctors' management of patients as we have seen in some reports here will only create more problems in the health sector.

joker5180:
Is the "ordinary pharmacist's" job ONLY to DISPENCE?
The key word in all this is ADVICE, are our CONSULTANT PHARMACISTS ready ADVISE or will they enter wards and start cancelling prescription or even worst open shops and start consulting patients?

The ordinary pharmacist can also participate in ward rounds. But just like there is a wide knowledge gap btw and ordinary MD and a consultant, so is it with pharmacist.

I've said it over and over. No pharmacist would go canceling prescriptions. Its not done! Yes, they do more interaction with patients at his bedside and during questioning, they discover some loopholes the patient didn't tell the doctor at diagnosis. You know how complex people are. The consultant pharmacist can also take a very wide view of the patients medication profile and history. There might be an alternative route of administration, alternative therapy, or alternative drug etc. Just write ur recommendations and move on to the next patient.

saxywale:
A doctors prescription is not final. I had a pharmacist recommend/change a different prescription from that of the doctor here in Canada, that was after he asked more questions about my medical history.

This is all I'm saying! I quite agree it's strange to Nigerian doctors, this is why I'm taking my time to explain.

echarlz:

Thanks for your contributions. I don't agree docs are irrational human beings like the world is being made to believe. Most will not refuse quality advice and input to patient care. Even now, I call pharmacist for advice and information but what I get in return is appalling so I've learnt to stop. What obtains in most centres today is health professionals working at cross purposes. There is so much antagonism in the care delivery process with every category in a hurry to assert their superiority. I do not have problems with any one being tagged a consultant in as much as the system requires his/her services but with only ADVISORY roles. This will prevent duplication and/or conflict of roles. The doctors should take responsibility for patient care. Anyone may refuse to get or accept advice to his own peril.
I think the fundamental problem with the JOHESU agitation is in the gang up against doctors and their quest to pull them down to get their demands met. That probably explains NMA's opposition to some of the requests. Doctors won't reasonably stop anyone from progressing, getting to the peak or acquiring more knowledge through the right channels. I will be glad to work with you with your postgraduate fellowship of 6years as a pharmacist once it is for the good of my patient and of course myself. Lol

Thank you! God bless you!

yegbamee: For the 1st time I think someone has said something meaningful and convincing. In view of your explanation above, I think having consultant pharmacist will help improve the quality of healthcare. I just wish the nurses and lab scientists could come up with their own logical reasons too. And honestly, I think the pharmacists (perhaps unknowingly) made a mistake of joining forces with nurses to form JOHESU. I mean, u guys ain't on the same level at all.

We've been marginalized way too much by the doctors over the years sir, I don't want to go into that debate again.

God bless you!

NaMe4:

Therapeutic pharmacy has always been an important part of pharmaceutical practice involving pharmaceutical studies and researches within the hospital and clinical trials of various drugs, I would be quite astonished if that has never been within the Nigerian curriculum. But these are different from what I see our dear pharmacists agitating for.

I believe therapeutic pharmacy is what pharmD is all about. But it has always been a part or subspecialty of pharmacy, Why make a big deal out of it? Cos Americans called theirs pharmd? Why can't we incorporate this aspect of pharmacy as a subspecialty in our pharmacy curriculum if indeed it hasn't been so in the past?

You see, you're correct. PharmD brings therapeutic monitoring along with it. I don't need to start all over explaining how this also benefits the patients.

But sadly, Nigeria is still struggling to incorporate the program.

I'm really amazed at this ongoing war between NMA and JOHESU. I believe that every party in the health sector is relevant (even the patients!), with the doctor at the center, so why the feud? This battle for supremacy is so not called for because every health care professional knows her boundary, what she is trained to do and what she is not licensed to do. Nobody knows all, and obviously nobody can do everything. If consultancy is what JOHESU wants, she should go ahead and grab it provided it is for the good of the patient. We patients know that the doctor is the boss, the head because we obviously do not go to the hospital to see the pharmacists or the med lab scientists or nurses or cleaners . We go to see the doctors! Even the nurses, med lab scientists, pharmacists (and doctors sef!) see the doctors as well when they have health challenges. Please, let us all work together as a team and respect each other. Thank you!

sisiafrika: your ignorance is appalling. You need mental redemption.

Pharmacy is a place for discarded medical wanna bes. So we cannot blame them

Iwegbadu:

Pharmacy is a place for discarded medical wanna bes. So we cannot blame them

Pharmacy boasts as much requirements to study as medicine and even more as it is in IFE. Your thinking is misplaced!

I used to think pharmacists were a bunch of well trained professionals but I ve had reasons to change that opinion since this crisis. They just keep spewing ignorance to poorly informed Nigerians. I tweeted a question to your president on channels TV and he couldn't say a word. Sincerely every doctor is tired of this struggle. Once this is all over, Nigerians will be the losers eventually. You want yo put your lives in the hands of these people who have little or no clinical training whatsoever and can't even tell you what the body does to drug and vice versa. Rubbish.

I used to think pharmacists were a bunch of well trained professionals but I ve had reasons to change that opinion since this crisis. They just keep spewing ignorance to poorly informed Nigerians. I tweeted a question to your president on channels TV and he couldn't say a word. Sincerely every doctor is tired of this struggle. Once this is all over, Nigerians will be the losers eventually. You want yo put your lives in the hands of these people who have little or no clinical training whatsoever and can't even tell you what the body does to drug and vice versa. Rubbish. People get the kind of health care they deserve.

It is difficult to distinguish a pharmacist from a technician in government hospitals because they do the same job: dispense drugs. I'm disappointed that our pharmacists have failed in drug production & research which is their main role. Probably they are getting less roles as salemen/representatives in pharmaceutical companies that is why they want to be consultants in hospitals.

bigass: The really reason they all want to become consultant is because they want to become Chief MEDICAL Director of Teaching of Hospitals. That can never happen

olodo it is. "the real reason".

bigass: The really reason they all want to become consultant is because they want to become Chief MEDICAL Director of Teaching of Hospitals. That can never happen

olodo it is. "the real reason".

adeoladrg: If you say that consultant pharmacists don't work in hospitals, what will you say about the consultant nurses, med lab scientists and physiotherapists? They don't work in hospitals too? Stop the propaganda pls! I mean, this doctors already rate one of the highest in the world when it comes to wrong diagnosis, wrong prescriptions and iatrogenic disorders which is better called doctor-induced disorders. Others health professionals are done with that and want to improve their practice and what do we have? A nationwide strike. Uninformed set of people! Check out the statistics given on this thread, you'll be shocked. www.nairaland.com/1809323/when-doctors-go-strike-death

Just like how we wrongly diagnosed Prof Akunyili of cancer.

drmat02: I used to think pharmacists were a bunch of well trained professionals but I ve had reasons to change that opinion since this crisis. They just keep spewing ignorance to poorly informed Nigerians. I tweeted a question to your president on channels TV and he couldn't say a word. Sincerely every doctor is tired of this struggle. Once this is all over, Nigerians will be the losers eventually. You want yo put your lives in the hands of these people who have little or no clinical training whatsoever and can't even tell you what the body does to drug and vice versa. Rubbish. People get the kind of health care they deserve.

What dirty tweet are you talking about? Is it our fault the channels presenters didn't read your tweet?

Your whole post is void of logical reasoning. You accuse a profession of having no clinical training, when that same profession decides to improve the practice through residency which is enough clinical training, you go on strike. Who does that?

sisiafrika: your ignorance is appalling. You need mental redemption.

am glad the person i qouted took time to explain the way 'lay people' would understand. No need explaining anything to you; CONSULTANT PHARMACIST.

sisiafrika: your ignorance is appalling. You need mental redemption.

am glad the person i qouted took time to explain to a level 'lay man ' can understand. No need to explain anything to you, CONSULTANT PHARMACIST.

I honestly find the role of CONSULTANT PHARMACIST in a hospital setting weird. A consultant pharmacist will go in to the ward to do 'round', reviewing patients by taking history and at the end may or may not RECOMMEND changes in patient's medication.
At the end of the day, physicians will their own round, nurses will do thier own round, pharmacists will do their own round, medical lab scientists will do their own round, physiotherapists will do their own round, radiographers will do their own round, with ALL of them offering ADVICE to physicians on how best to manage the patient.
If this is the scenario we are going to have in our hospitals then am affraid we are in for chaos.

adeoladrg:

Pharmacy boasts as much requirements to study as medicine and even more as it is in IFE. Your thinking is misplaced!

So tell me why you want to be even with other peoples profession knowing that it (pharmacy) is completely different and unique in its own way

joker5180: I honestly find the role of CONSULTANT PHARMACIST in a hospital setting weird. A consultant pharmacist will go in to the ward to do 'round', reviewing patients by taking history and at the end may or may not RECOMMEND changes in patient's medication.
At the end of the day, physicians will their own round, nurses will do thier own round, pharmacists will do their own round, medical lab scientists will do their own round, physiotherapists will do their own round, radiographers will do their own round, with ALL of them offering ADVICE to physicians on how best to manage the patient.
If this is the scenario we are going to have in our hospitals then am affraid we are in for chaos.

This pharmacist are not aware of the detrimental effect on patient pyshychology. Dont forget that the physician is not only one unit, in a case like diabetes it will include the renal team, the cardiovascular team , the neurology team for complications, opthamologist for blurring of vision, the endocrinologist and several team. They have won this battle with no insight into the future its only when they become patients they will know what they have done most times a patient need rests and not ward round like a lab rat. Next they will want to fight a war to be called doctors, stupidity is a disease

Leleh: I'm really amazed at this ongoing war between NMA and JOHESU. I believe that every party in the health sector is relevant (even the patients!), with the doctor at the center, so why the feud? This battle for supremacy is so not called for because every health care professional knows her boundary, what she is trained to do and what she is not licensed to do. Nobody knows all, and obviously nobody can do everything. If consultancy is what JOHESU wants, she should go ahead and grab it provided it is for the good of the patient. We patients know that the doctor is the boss, the head because we obviously do not go to the hospital to see the pharmacists or the med lab scientists or nurses or cleaners . We go to see the doctors! Even the nurses, med lab scientists, pharmacists (and doctors sef!) see the doctors as well when they have health challenges. Please, let us all work together as a team and respect each other. Thank you!

So far we, the general public and patients know the truth their mere title dont mean a thing they would even be suprised when patients start insisting to see identification cards proving that only doctors should touch or treat them, do this pharmacists know how to check for vital organs and translate what it means? The only point since morning has been iatrogenic, continue in this fooloshness pharmacists, i pray doctors should resume bac and fold their arms while enjoying the stupidity unfold it will be very funny cqnt wait

Iwegbadu:

So tell me why you want to be even with other peoples profession knowing that it (pharmacy) is completely different and unique in its own way

Does the push for residency training for pharmacists make them even with the 'other people' in ur post?

Iwegbadu:

So far we, the general public and patients know the truth their mere title dont mean a thing they would even be suprised when patients start insisting to see identification cards proving that only doctors should touch or treat them, do this pharmacists know how to check for vital organs and translate what it means? The only point since morning has been iatrogenic, continue in this fooloshness pharmacists, i pray doctors should resume bac and fold their arms while enjoying the stupidity unfold it will be very funny cqnt wait

You probably didn't read op's post. Rather, you rushed here to air ur unneeded opinion!

Who is talking about vital signs? Did anyone tell you pharmacists are overtaking doctor's roles by becoming a consultant?

bigass:

When did pharmacist become a title?. You are Mr Sesan Kareem.

I tire sef o. Ask them for me abeg. Its only in this country that people bear such untraditional titles for cheap recognition. Laughing in ijaw language

These arguments are really very infantile. No profession dictates to any other profession in the developed world. There is the national association of boards of pharmacy in the US that regulates the practice of the profession in 50 states and Guam and US Virgin Island. There is the American Board of Physicians, board of nursing etc. None takes orders from the other. It might interest folks to know that CMD or Medical director is not the overall boss in most hospitals in the USA. The president or CEO of most hospitals here may not even be in any of the health care professions, he or she is usually an MBA or PhD in healthcare administration. The arguments are uncalled for. Here the size of the pie is grown by running these facilities profitably though most hospitals are non profit. The big pie allows healthcare in America to be the sector with highest no of professions making 6 figures.
A nurse Anaesthetist here can make as high as$180000, more than a family physician or pediatrician or some psychiatrists.

I worked in a hospital where a psychiatrist friend was written-up (what we call query) by the boss who happened to be a healthcare administration graduate and was the director. Please let's enlighten each other and improve each other's intrinsic value with factual conversations. Pharmacists here don't even flaunt pharm D . Physical therapists don't flaunt their Dpt while optometrists don't flaunt their O.D. Everyone just works. You will all be so busy that you will not remember titles and ego. Professions evolve. Architecture in Nigeria used to be a diploma but it's now a masters in architecture with a D.Arch in its heels. Lawyers now get a J.D

Let us not drag our country back with all these petty talk. Any nigerian pharmacist who wants to emigrate to the us must meet certain criteria. Let's keep improving so that those degrees will be useful for them. As for the title craze, no one should be called Engr or Pharm etc it's a sign of how low our society is that people even buy doctorate degrees from some dubious paper mills here and nigerians address them as "dr"