TheBigUrban2:


Quality posters?


He is good...no great at sophistry.

You have to give the guy some credit. He is logically better, if not the best, than most theists here. I enjoy reading his posts, even if I disagree with most of them and I detest some of his tactics.

cyrexx:

No, you're wrong. Softwares are NOT materials that can be stored in the hard drives. They are a set of informations, instructions given to the computer processor and algorithms that do define certain activities and outcomes. They are immaterial and intangible.

These sets of instructions are stored on drives as chemicals. In older computers punch cars and diodes were the softwares. Now pits on CD"s and electric charges in minute transistors (made up of specific chemicals) are the physical format in which softwares are stored. Seun can confirm what I have written.

UyiIredia: These sets of instructions are stored on drives as chemicals. In older computers punch cars and diodes were the softwares. Now pits on CD"s and electric charges in minute transistors (made up of specific chemicals) are the physical format in which softwares are stored. Seun can confirm what I have written.

Those punch cards, diodes, CDs and other chemicals you refer to are merely the containers of the informations (software), they are not the (informations) softwares. Just like books are nothing more than containers of the informations therein.

cyrexx:

ANONY, where'd you go?

You know how religious section get so boooooring without quality posters like you.

I didn't go anywhere. I'm just tired of saying the same things over and over again. I'll just watch this one.

Conversely, the physical human brain is the container for the immaterial human mind, so to speak.

MrAnony1:
I didn't go anywhere. I'm just tired of saying the same things over and over again. I'll just watch this one.

Okay dokey.

cyrexx:

No, you're wrong. Softwares are NOT materials that can be stored in the hard drives. They are a set of informations, instructions given to the computer processor and algorithms that do define certain activities and outcomes. They are immaterial and intangible.

I totally agree with you here but this is what surprises me;

Would you say that it is possible for immaterial information such as is software to begin to exist without a creative mind bringing it to be?

Think very carefully about this.

UyiIredia: Nah. People like me are simply smart enough to know the limits of technology within natural law. Scientists dreams of time travel, resurrecting dead humans etc are hogwash. However, some (like turning lead into gold) can be achieved.

What is natural law?

Time travel is possible.

How then is alchemy possible?

UyiIredia: Yes. Apparently, your IQ's dropped a notch. The analogy is clear. Humans are conscious and computers arent and can never be.

Na me be dey drop the one , one like but @ the bolded, I think the future of Cybernetics is still evolving !!

The vastness of Human Knowledge will amount to nothing when our Star burn out its fuel and this galaxy got de-orbited !!!


Welldone Uyi, keep bashing these ignorants !!

timmy2409:


Before we get on with the whole nature vs nurture argument, allow me to point out that this is not the sense of which you spoke in the OP regarding the effects of the environment. You spoke more about interpersonal relationships, education and the affluence of a person's society. You also implied that inequalities are not present at birth. See below.



This is all irrelevant in the end though. Nature or nuture, I suppose we can all be glad we weren't Moabites or Amalekites back when God was on his period.

You are right....I didnt originally mean it like that....that is why I said "most". I didnt want to go into deep scientific analysis

Thanks

MrAnony1:
I totally agree with you here but this is what surprises me;

Would you say that it is possible for immaterial information such as is software to begin to exist without a creative mind bringing it to be?

Think very carefully about this.

And all creative minds we have come across so far have a physical brain powering it.

Please note that before you somehow try to twist this into an argument for an intelligent designer God

MrAnony1:
I totally agree with you here but this is what surprises me;

Would you say that it is possible for immaterial information such as is software to begin to exist without a creative mind bringing it to be?

Think very carefully about this.

In the mind of its maker the software is immaterial (same as its utility, and satisfaction derivable from it) though mediated for by certain neurons. But just as thoughts are mediated by the brain softwares are ALWAYS mediated by the storage drives on which they are stored. The problem is this.: atheists ALWAYS take advantage of the fact that the human mnd is based on a material brain to say the mind is material. I wassurprised a cyrexsx was stating nonsense of softwares being immaterial. It doesnt help his position.

Its simple : most of everything they have actually done with computer is stolen from Human Science .....

I know they are working to steal consciousness too

....... and Humanbeing (The system) and His Algorithm(mind) was never designed by anybody


They will never learn !!

MrAnony1:
I totally agree with you here but this is what surprises me;

Would you say that it is possible for immaterial information such as is software to begin to exist without a creative mind bringing it to be?

Think very carefully about this.

This question of origin is the mystery of the ages. A true scientist is not ashamed to say "I don't know" to what he doesn't know. While a religious person will readily give his answers to what he doesn't really know.

To answer your question. I don't know. Maybe further scientific discoveries will shed more light on the true origins of this. Maybe we'll never know.

It's possible that the information was initially written by a more complex creative mind and it's copied generation to generation to be what it is today. The creative mind just happen to always be or it was designed by a greater creative mind. Or the information has always been, just like we assume the creative mind has always been. Nobody really knows.

donroxy: Its simple : most of everything they have actually done with computer is stolen from Human Science .....

I know they are working to steal consciousness too

....... and Humanbeing (The system) and His Algorithm(mind) was never designed by anybody

And if we were designed by aliens as propounded by the prometheus movie, are aliens the same as Yahweh?

UyiIredia: In the mind of its maker the software is immaterial (same as its utility, and satisfaction derivable from it) though mediated for by certain neurons. But just as thoughts are mediated by the brain softwares are ALWAYS mediated by the storage drives on which they are stored. The problem is this.: atheists ALWAYS take advantage of the fact that the human mnd is based on a material brain to say the mind is material. I wassurprised a cyrexsx was stating nonsense of softwares being immaterial. It doesnt help his position.

I don't think that Cyrexx was saying nonsense when he said that the mind is immaterial

TheBigUrban2:

And if we were designed by aliens as propounded by the prometheus movie, are aliens the same as Yahweh?

Is yahweh not an alien ?

cyrexx:

This question of origin is the mystery of the ages. A true scientist is not ashamed to say "I don't know" to what he doesn't know. While a religious person will readily give his answers to what he doesn't really know.

To answer your question. I don't know. Maybe further scientific discoveries will shed more light on the true origins of this. Maybe we'll never know.

It's possible that the information was initially written by a more complex creative mind and it's copied generation to generation to be what it is today. The creative mind just happen to always be or it was designed by a greater creative mind. Or the information has always been, just like we assume the creative mind has always been. Nobody really knows.

The problem is that a scientists will say I dont know when a good answer has been given by religion. A good one is the universe's beginning. If you follow mainstream science sites, you should be aware scientists are now proposing that the universe must be infinite because the evidence of the universe not being formed by chance is considerable. Now the evidence they are looking for is one that confirms an eternal multiverse of whcich our universe sis a part. Google 'multiverse theory'

MrAnony1:
I don't think that Cyrexx was saying nonsense when he said that the mind is immaterial

I said softwares not mind. I agree that the mind is immaterial. If he believes the human mind is immaterial then there's a gap in his atheism. Because atheism is an inherently materialistic philosophy.

donroxy: Na me be dey drop the one , one like but @ the bolded, I think the future of Cybernetics is still evolving !!

The vastness of Human Knowledge will amount to nothing when our Star burn out its fuel and this galaxy got de-orbited !!!


Welldone Uyi, keep bashing these ignorants !!

SO you think computers can become conscious ?! That means computers will be able to love, hate, invent, forget, die etc these are hallmarks of conscious beings. They cant feel that. AT most they can only behave as humans do but they will never have the human ability to feel or even have dreams.

UyiIredia: The problem is that a scientists will say I dont know when a good answer has been given by religion. A good one is the universe's beginning. If you follow mainstream science sites, you should be aware scientists are now proposing that the universe must be infinite because the evidence of the universe not being formed by chance is considerable. Now the evidence they are looking for is one that confirms an eternal multiverse of whcich our universe sis a part. Google 'multiverse theory'

Which answer given by which religion among myriads of religion?

Isn't it funny that the religion of your parents just happens to be right one. And all others are wrong.

I know about Multiverse Theory . Interesting. But I must ask which of your prophets or holy book authors ever conceived this in his wildest imaginations, before the scientists brought it to fore?

cyrexx:

This question of origin is the mystery of the ages. A true scientist is not ashamed to say "I don't know" to what he doesn't know. While a religious person will readily give his answers to what he doesn't really know.

To answer your question. I don't know. Maybe further scientific discoveries will shed more light on the true origins of this. Maybe we'll never know.

It's possible that the information was initially written by a more complex creative mind and it's copied generation to generation to be what it is today. The creative just happen to always be or it was designed by a greater creative mind. Or the instructions has always been, just like we assume the creative mind has always been. Nobody really knows.

That's a fair answer but all I ask is that we must now be consistent.

If you are saying that you don't know if information is created by a mind or not, you must then apply that skepticism to everywhere you come across information.

i.e. You don't know if books came from the creative minds of authors or not, you don't know if websites such as nairaland.com have mindful creators or not, you don't know if the message you are currently reading came from a mind or not.

Maybe further scientific discoveries will shed more light on the origin of information to tell us whether they come from minds or not.


Again as always, I would urge you to think very carefully about the position you have chosen.

UyiIredia: SO you think computers can become conscious ?! That means computers will be able to love, hate, invent, forget, die etc these are hallmarks of conscious beings. They cant feel that. AT most they can only behave as humans do but they will never have the human ability to feel or even have dreams.

Some people thinking like you 200 years ago said man can never fly. Need I say more?

cyrexx:


It's possible that the information was initially written by a more complex creative mind and it's copied generation to generation to be what it is today. The creative mind just happen to always be or it was designed by a greater creative mind. Or the information has always been, just like we assume the creative mind has always been. Nobody really knows.

God is the creative mind I'm proposing. Start with a deist God. In the meantime I'm off. Bye !

UyiIredia: I said softwares not mind. I agree that the mind is immaterial. If he believes the human mind is immaterial then there's a gap in his atheism. Because atheism is an inherently materialistic philosophy.

He does:

cyrexx: Conversely, the physical human brain is the container for the immaterial human mind, so to speak.

https://www.nairaland.com/1814905/all-men-equal-under-god/1#24732052

I also don't think that he is wrong to say that software is immaterial.

MrAnony1:
That's a fair answer but all I ask is that we must now be consistent.

If you are saying that you don't know if information is created by a mind or not, you must then apply that skepticism to everywhere you come across information.

i.e. You don't know if books came from the creative minds of authors or not, you don't know if websites such as nairaland.com have mindful creators or not, you don't know if the message you are currently reading came from a mind or not.

Maybe further scientific discoveries will shed more light on the origin of information to tell us whether they come from minds or not.


Again as always, I would urge you to think very carefully about the position you have chosen.

Classic Anony, dear.

I was talking of the ultimate origins, which no one knows and NOT the origins of websites or books which we know. Lol

UyiIredia: SO you think computers can become conscious ?! That means computers will be able to love, hate, invent, forget, die etc these are hallmarks of conscious beings. They cant feel that. AT most they can only behave as humans do but they will never have the human ability to feel or even have dreams.

Consciousness simply implies wakefulness to your environment i.e ability to respond to stimuli which is a characteristics of living (as yo've observed) !!

I don't wanna believe you people are reducing the definition of computer to laptops, desktops and PDAs .... ....

That is why I said ''Cybernetics'' .... I believe Advancement in these knowledge can build consciousness into a system (computer) ........

UyiIredia: God is the creative mind I'm proposing. Start with a deist God. In the meantime I'm off. Bye !

Don't go until you define the more complex mind that must have created this your Deist God. Or else the logic you used to arrive at this conclusion is fatally faulty.

cyrexx:

Classic Anony, dear.

I was talking of the ultimate origins, which no one knows and NOT the origins of websites or books which we know. Lol

In that case you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask you about "ultimate origins", this is precisely what I asked you:

"Would you say that it is possible for immaterial information such as is software to begin to exist without a creative mind bringing it to be?"

Please answer.

MrAnony1:
In that case you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask you about "ultimate origins", this is precisely what I asked you:

"Would you say that it is possible for immaterial information such as is software to begin to exist without a creative mind bringing it to be?"

Please answer.

For one, we don't know if it BEGIN to exist or it has ALWAYS BEEN.

Even if it began to to exist, it might have begun as a non-complex information at first and increasing get more complex over the generations.

My answer.
If it began as complex as this.(Please note that I said if it BEGAN ...), then a creative mind (who must have been designed by a more creative and more complex mind) must have brought it to be.

TheBigUrban2:


That's a racist God for you

more like a convenant keeping one

A belief in God is not needed to hold the view that all men are equal. The fact that we vary in terms of strength, size, abilities etc gives credence to the fact that men aren't actually equal.

Matter of factly I do not hold the view that all men are equal though I believe firmly that all men need to be respected and treated fairly irrespective of the glaring inequalities.

It matters not whether we look at it with respect to Faith or Logic because no matter how we look at it, we will always arrive at the same conclusion: All men are definitely not equal. Some are gifted more than others.