I've been wondering what is meant by a good God.




God is good.

Okay.

The problem here is that "good" is meaningless without "evil". In order for good to exist, evil must exist, since a thing can only be good in relation to another thing.

Christians will say that God is good and man introduced evil after the fall. Or perhaps it was the fall of Lucifer that introduced evil. Either way, what it means is that God became good at the point of the introduction of evil. Before then, he was good in relation to what? Nothing. So he could not have been good.

In order for God to be good from the on set, there must have been evil somewhere, from the on set. There are four ways this could have played out:

1. God is neither good nor evil, he just is. In this case, good and evil only have meaning because we say they do. What we mean when we say something is good or evil is that we approve or do not approve of it. Nothing is objectively good or evil.

2. Assuming that one thing can be both at the same time, God is both good and evil. Good and evil exist objectively, and they are both embodied in God.

3. Assuming that nothing can be both at the same time, God is good, while another entity exists which is evil. This entity would be similar to God, (eg if God has a good personality, it would have an evil personality) in order to be the antithesis of God. Thus it should be sentient. Here, God is not responsible for the evil being. Instead something higher than both God and the evil being is responsible for both of them.

4. Still assuming that nothing can be both at the same time, God is evil, while another entity exists which is good. And something else is responsible for both of them.

Which one is obtainable? I have no idea. I could even be entirely wrong.

Any ideas?

Yeah, I have an idea

Quit using logic on God, it never works out well..even for urself

Gombs: Yeah, I have an idea

Quit using logic on God, it never works out well..even for urself

Yeah, sound advice. Don't try to make God make sense. Just work with the 'mystery'.

The brain, a tool supposedly designed by God for the purpose of thinking and self-awareness, isn't adequate in discussing or unravelling this omni-xxx God. Smh.



Btw, hw far? Long time. So u and Sal C na orlu people?

musKeeto:
Yeah, sound advice. Don't try to make God make sense. Just work with the 'mystery'.

The brain, a tool supposedly designed by God for the purpose of thinking and self-awareness, isn't adequate in discussing or unravelling this omni-Bleep God. Smh.



Btw, hw far? Long time. So u and Sal C na orlu people?

Logic and matters relating to God do not go hand in hand.

Thereby... the beleif in God is illogical

I think your number 2 points said it all.
Without evil, there will be no good, for something can only be good in relation to another!
We can say an aeroplane is the fastest means of transportation because we are comparing it in relation to cars, animals and foot...

So God is the creator of both Evil and Good.
God even has an evil spirit (or created them, something like that)
1sam 16:14
Now the Spirit of the LORD had left Saul, and the LORD sent a tormenting spirit that filled him with depression and fear.

Another translation said
Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.

So I also want to believe that when God was creating Devil, he knew that devil will rebel, for without Devil tormenting us, I don't think we as humans would have sought for God the way we are doing today, Devil was created for a purpose.
Again in Jesus situation, note that he knew Judas was going to betray him but he never said a word, why that the purpose of his coming would be fulfilled.
So yeah God created both evil and good.
Is 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Last bullet:
Is 45:11

"This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?

So in other words whether Bad or Evil, never question God!

musKeeto:
Yeah, sound advice. Don't try to make God make sense. Just work with the 'mystery'.

The brain, a tool supposedly designed by God for the purpose of thinking and self-awareness, isn't adequate in discussing or unravelling this omni-xxx God. Smh.



Btw, hw far? Long time. So u and Sal C na orlu people?

Am anambra o! Besides, I am very ok, thanks for asking

Gombs: Yeah, I have an idea
Quit using logic on God, it never works out well..even for urself

If you don't know the answer, just say so. Or try to make an informed guess.

Logic is used on God all the time. How do you convince yourself that there is God? You probably tell yourself that life is too complex to not be designed or that we must have been caused by a superior being. These involve application of logic. Without such rationalizations, you would have no reason to prefer God to a spanner. So it is not correct to say that using logic on God never works out well.

Besides, how do you explain your preference for a particular religion over another? All religions give their Gods various, usually differing properties. Without using logic to discriminate between what properties God should or should not have, you would be left with no option but to believe in every God. Or arbitrarily choose one.

All I'm trying to do is determine the properties of God.

What was God before he created good and evil? Was he good or evil?

And if what you're saying is correct, can I rightly say that "God is Evil", just as I can say that "God is Good"?

Plus, how good is God?

chrisviral: I think your number 2 points said it all.
Without evil, there will be no good, for something can only be good in relation to another!
We can say an aeroplane is the fastest means of transportation because we are comparing it in relation to cars, animals and foot...

So God is the creator of both Evil and Good.
God even has an evil spirit (or created them, something like that)
1sam 16:14
Now the Spirit of the LORD had left Saul, and the LORD sent a tormenting spirit that filled him with depression and fear.

Another translation said
Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD terrorized him.

So I also want to believe that when God was creating Devil, he knew that devil will rebel, for without Devil tormenting us, I don't think we as humans would have sought for God the way we are doing today, Devil was created for a purpose.
Again in Jesus situation, note that he knew Judas was going to betray him but he never said a word, why that the purpose of his coming would be fulfilled.
So yeah God created both evil and good.
Is 45:7
I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.

Last bullet:
Is 45:11

"This is what the LORD says-- the Holy One of Israel, and its Maker: Concerning things to come, do you question me about my children, or give me orders about the work of my hands?

So in other words whether Bad or Evil, never question God!

Gombs: Yeah, I have an idea

Quit using logic on God, it never works out well..even for urself

So what is your test for truth?

If i said you do not exist or that I do not exist, would you agree with any of the statement?

finofaya: What was God before he created good and evil? Was he good or evil?

And if what you're saying is correct, can I rightly say that "God is Evil", just as I can say that "God is Good"?

Plus, how good is God?

God was/is/will be everything before/after/and when everything was created.
In simple english God is everything before anything was created (both evil and Good) he is!
To be all knowing is to know everything right, that is to say he knows even the evil we are yet to think of and still knows even the good that we are yet to see!

Well I how good is God?
God's goodness is in- exhaust (able), you cants measure it, like when you said we measure Good in relation to evil right, thus the further/deeper/badder the evil, is equal to the further/deeper/goodder the goodness of God.
Evil-----------Good
They will always be on opposite end, never exhausted. The more the evil, the more the Good.
If Blind bathemeous was not blind, we wouldn't have know that jesus can heal the blind...
If God did not allow death (which is evil) we wouldn't have know that there is resurrection (which is Good).
Finally if you think Evil is 20 then Good is also 20, cause every word must have an opposite, that is to say that God is 40 (everything is him)

To add more to my point!
To understand God, first Understand yourself, the Level of your Goodness cannot be Measured, the fact that you have done just 2 good things since you were born does not mean you are only 2% good, you will still go on to do more.. that is how God's measure of Goodness is... it's unlimited.

chrisviral: To add more to my point!
To understand God, first Understand yourself, the Level of your Goodness cannot be Measured, the fact that you have done just 2 good things since you were born does not mean you are only 2% good, you will still go on to do more.. that is how God's measure of Goodness is... it's unlimited.

Yet Good is a loaded subjective term. In very simple words, Good is related to benefit, profit to one. So since whats good for May isn't always good for John.

Kay17:

Yet Good is a loaded subjective term. In very simple words, Good is related to benefit, profit to one. So since whats good for May isn't always good for John.

The illustration you have given now is actually what births Religion, saying Good is a loaded subjective term is same as saying God is a loaded subjective God, in others all religion is suited to benefits.
But on another look it stll supports my arguement that his goodness is un-measurable, since what's good for May might be for Mike, there the op asking if he should say God is Evil is also subjective(his opinion)

Btw im Christian, I was actually replying the OP in a christian perspective.

chrisviral:

The illustration you have given now is actually what births Religion, saying Good is a loaded subjective term is same as saying God is a loaded subjective God, in others all religion is suited to benefits.
But on another look it stll supports my arguement that his goodness is un-measurable, since what's good for May might be for Mike, there the op asking if he should say God is Evil is also subjective(his opinion)

Btw im Christian, I was actually replying the OP in a christian perspective.

Probably.

Okay man. What you are saying in essence is that God is infinitely good.

You agree tho that good and evil exist objectively, and are embodied within him. And that he is good to the extent that he is evil. If he is infinitely good, then he is infinitely evil.

One may say that he is infinitely good, and one can equally say that he is infinitely evil. None would be wrong.

You are a christian, so you expect God's influence on your life to be positive. What I want to know is why you think God will show a preference for doing good things, when you say he is equally good and evil.

chrisviral:
God was/is/will be everything before/after/and when everything was created.
In simple english God is everything before anything was created (both evil and Good) he is!
To be all knowing is to know everything right, that is to say he knows even the evil we are yet to think of and still knows even the good that we are yet to see!
Well I how good is God?
God's goodness is in- exhaust (able), you cants measure it, like when you said we measure Good in relation to evil right, thus the further/deeper/badder the evil, is equal to the further/deeper/goodder the goodness of God.
Evil-----------Good
They will always be on opposite end, never exhausted. The more the evil, the more the Good.
If Blind bathemeous was not blind, we wouldn't have know that jesus can heal the blind...
If God did not allow death (which is evil) we wouldn't have know that there is resurrection (which is Good).
Finally if you think Evil is 20 then Good is also 20, cause every word must have an opposite, that is to say that God is 40 (everything is him)

Kay17:

So what is your test for truth?

If i said you do not exist or that I do not exist, would you agree with any of the statement?

The Bible, if God says am a tree, I am, it doesn't matter what anyone sees or say

Not logical huh?

Gombs:

The Bible, if God says am a tree, I am, it doesn't matter what anyone sees or say

Good.

finofaya: I've been wondering what is meant by a good God.




God is good.

Okay.

The problem here is that "good" is meaningless without "evil". In order for good to exist, evil must exist, since a thing can only be good in relation to another thing.

Christians will say that God is good and man introduced evil after the fall. Or perhaps it was the fall of Lucifer that introduced evil. Either way, what it means is that God became good at the point of the introduction of evil. Before then, he was good in relation to what? Nothing. So he could not have been good.

In order for God to be good from the on set, there must have been evil somewhere, from the on set. There are four ways this could have played out:

1. God is neither good nor evil, he just is. In this case, good and evil only have meaning because we say they do. What we mean when we say something is good or evil is that we approve or do not approve of it. Nothing is objectively good or evil.

2. Assuming that one thing can be both at the same time, God is both good and evil. Good and evil exist objectively, and they are both embodied in God.

3. Assuming that nothing can be both at the same time, God is good, while another entity exists which is evil. This entity would be similar to God, (eg if God has a good personality, it would have an evil personality) in other to be the antithesis of God. Thus it should be sentient. Here, God is not responsible for the evil being. Instead something higher than both God and the evil being is responsible for both of them.

4. Still assuming that nothing can be both at the same time, God is evil, while another entity exists which is good. And something else is responsible for both of them.

Which one is obtainable? I have no idea. I could even be entirely wrong.

Any ideas?

We can only define God(in our own little way) based on the attributes provided in the scripture.

God is merciful God. Without sin his mercy can't manifest.
God is a God of wrath. Without sin his wrath cannot manifest.

All these makes the fall of lucifer look like a pre-planned thing- to make these nature of God to manifest.

God did not develop mercy because of sin. He changes not. Mercy has been his nature. Wrath has been his nature too. He never developed wrath because of sin. He changes not.

finofaya: Okay man. What you are saying in essence is that God is infinitely good.

You agree tho that good and evil exist objectively, and are embodied within him. And that he is good to the extent that he is evil. If he is infinitely good, then he is infinitely evil.

One may say that he is infinitely good, and one can equally say that he is infinitely evil. None would be wrong.

You are a christian, so you expect God's influence on your life to be positive. What I want to know is why you think God will show a preference for doing good things, when you say he is equally good and evil.

I agree with you that one can say he is infinitely evil but let's look at it this way...
My father who gave birth to me knows both evil (Infact has done it atimes) and also knows evil but he wants me to do good, how do I know because he said so.
God will give me a preference for doing good things because he said so!

Seriously? Lol

Why should God show a preference for doing good things?

chrisviral:

I agree with you that one can say he is infinitely evil but let's look at it this way...
My father who gave birth to me knows both evil (Infact has done it atimes) and also knows evil but he wants me to do good, how do I know because he said so.
God will give me a preference for doing good things because he said so!

That's why I'm asking how good he is. He deals out good and evil in equal measure.

alexleo:

We can only define God(in our own little way) based on the attributes provided in the scripture.

God is merciful God. Without sin his mercy can't manifest.
God is a God of wrath. Without sin his wrath cannot manifest.

All these makes the fall of lucifer look like a pre-planned thing- to make these nature of God to manifest.

God did not develop mercy because of sin. He changes not. Mercy has been his nature. Wrath has been his nature too. He never developed wrath because of sin. He changes not.

finofaya: Seriously? Lol

Why should God show a preference for doing good things?

I thought I answered that!
God will show preference for doing good things because He said so.
I want to believe that After God created everything, (remember he created man in his image) therefore Man too like God is infinitely evil, then God set a plan in motion, started from the devil to Jesus, just to achieve the aim of Forgiveness.
Forgiveness is only available because God knows we must do evil things, He knows just saying it alone wouldn't stop it coz it's Man's nature so he set up the redemption package!

To further answer your question...
Our president like me and you is Evil and at the same time Good! But why do we show preference to him doing good? When we ourselves too don't always do good

chrisviral:

I thought I answered that!
God will show preference for doing good things because He said so.
I want to believe that After God created everything, (remember he created man in his image) therefore Man too like God is infinitely evil, then God set a plan in motion, started from the devil to Jesus, just to achieve the aim of Forgiveness.
Forgiveness is only available because God knows we must do evil things, He knows just saying it alone wouldn't stop it coz it's Man's nature so he set up the redemption package!

To further answer your question...
Our president like me and you is Evil and at the same time Good! But why do we show preference to him doing good? When we ourselves too don't always do good

"Because he said so". You're still not getting it.

First of all, that is circular. Saying he will do good things means he already has a preference for good things.

Also, since he is infinitely evil, how do you decide that he is telling the truth?

There is no disputing that we humans prefer good, whatever that means. God is said to be the cause of this preference, and I wonder how. So the only person whose benevolence is in question here is God, not man.

GEJ till 2199

finofaya:

"Because he said so". You're still not getting it.

First of all, that is circular. Saying he will do good things means he already has a preference for good things.

Also, since he is infinitely evil, how do you decide that he is telling the truth?

There is no disputing that we humans prefer good, whatever that means. God is said to be the cause of this preference, and I wonder how. So the only person whose benevolence is in question here is God, not man.

GEJ till 2199

You have a point but we can only test God's benevolence if he was Man...
Why I said the answer to your question is because he said so is because he created you.

As a programmer, you program only carries the instruction of what you gives it, any other acts out of the basic function you have assigned to it is a dis-function. So also are we with God, since we believe that he is our creator, thus whatever he calls Evil is evil and whatever he calls good is good.
If he says you riding a car is evil, then it is evil, why coz he created all things therefore only him has the right to tell what is and what is not!

mnnnn, if God exists, he is neither good nor evil. we dont know what he is. my opinion

finofaya: That's why I'm asking how good he is. He deals out good and evil in equal measure.

According to the scriputure, God's love is great and his wrath is great. I don't think that the bible said that his love is greater than his wrath or vice versa so I think both are equal. I think its his wrath that you are refering to as evil. God is not evil.

N.B you are making some reasonable points so its not as if I'm attacking your points. I'm just trying to reason with you. Thanks.

Lol. As far as God's benevolence is not chaotic, that is, if it operates by fixed rules, I think we can hope to understand it. We can test it.

God created us good. Fine. But remember that he is as good as he is bad. His motives and actions will be either good or bad, but not both, since good and evil objectively exist. So doing something good does not mean that he likes to do good things. It simply means that he can't avoid doing a good thing or a bad thing, whenever he acts.

I believe he has continued to act, since the creation of man, and has committed his fair share of atrocities. There are things we consider evil going on in the world right now. Some of these things, like natural disasters, are simply beyond the power of man, who is normally the fall guy for evil. Fortunately, we have another fall guy, in the person of an infinitely evil God. He has the motive, and the ability. Why doesn't Christianity assign him the blame and label him evil?

The question of why he should prefer to do good things remains unanswered then. Me I don't see why he should, but Christians think otherwise.

God may have created things, but remember he did not create good and evil. Otherwise, you cannot say that God is good, since there was no evil make him good (before he created evil that is). So he cannot have the right to say what good and evil are. Besides, good and evil exist objectively, right? We should be able to see them ourselves. Also, it is not nice, while knowing that there are things that are objectively good, to say that good is whatever God says it is.

chrisviral:

You have a point but we can only test God's benevolence if he was Man...
Why I said the answer to your question is because he said so is because he created you.

As a programmer, you program only carries the instruction of what you gives it, any other acts out of the basic function you have assigned to it is a dis-function. So also are we with God, since we believe that he is our creator, thus whatever he calls Evil is evil and whatever he calls good is good.
If he says you riding a car is evil, then it is evil, why coz he created all things therefore only him has the right to tell what is and what is not!

finofaya: Lol. As far as God's benevolence is not chaotic, that is, if it operates by fixed rules, I think we can hope to understand it. We can test it.

God created us good. Fine. But remember that he is as good as he is bad. His motives and actions will be either good or bad, but not both, since good and evil objectively exist. So doing something good does not mean that he likes to do good things. It simply means that he can't avoid doing a good thing or a bad thing, whenever he acts.

I believe he has continued to act, since the creation of man, and has committed his fair share of atrocities. There are things we consider evil going on in the world right now. Some of these things, like natural disasters, are simply beyond the power of man, who is normally the fall guy for evil. Fortunately, we have another fall guy, in the person of an infinitely evil God. He has the motive, and the ability. Why doesn't Christianity assign him the blame and label him evil?

The question of why he should prefer to do good things remains unanswered then. Me I don't see why he should, but Christians think otherwise.

God may have created things, but remember he did not create good and evil. Otherwise, you cannot say that God is good, since there was no evil make him good (before he created evil that is). So he cannot have the right to say what good and evil are. Besides, good and evil exist objectively, right? We should be able to see them ourselves. Also, it is not nice, while knowing that there are knowing that there are things that are objectively good, to say that good is whatever God says it is.

Re-read what you just wrote, you have made no point this time.

frank317: mnnnn, if God exists, he is neither good nor evil. we dont know what he is. my opinion

But you know that he is neither good nor evil?

alexleo:

According to the scriputure, God's love is great and his wrath is great. I don't think that the bible said that his love is greater than his wrath or vice versa so I think both are equal. I think its his wrath that you are refering to as evil. God is not evil.

N.B you are making some reasonable points so its not as if I'm attacking your points. I'm just trying to reason with you. Thanks.

Thanks. I know you're not.

God may not be evil. But if you say he is good, and has always been, then you should show where evil has always been.

Oh. It looks clear to me.

I'm merely saying that God making us with a desire for "good" doesn't mean he prefers good over evil.

And that if God created good and evil, what was he before he created them? Was he good?

chrisviral:

Re-read what you just wrote, you have made no point this time.

Bravo Op!

You have begun to think outside the Bible even if it's just for a while...keep ur brain thinking and ask questions you would surely find the truth