true2god: Initiate one.

explain point num 2...

 Bible says in Genesis Ch. No. 1 Verses No. 3 and 5,…‘Light was created on the first day.’ Genesis, Ch., 1 Verses, 14 to 19… ‘The cause of light - stars and the sun, etc. was created on the fourth day’.  How can the cause of light be created on the 4th day - later than the light which came into existence on the first day? - is it scientific? is it logical?

true2god: These are what koranic allah said about the earth:

Qur’an 20:53 Who has made earth for you like a bed (spread out); and has opened roads (ways and paths) for you therein, and has sent down water (rain) from the sky. And We have brought forth with it various kinds of vegetation. quran 20.53 Jalalyn here also conveys the meaning of a flat earth as a bed: He is, the One Who made for you, as well as [for] all creatures, the earth a cradle, a bed, and threaded, facilitated, for you therein ways, roads, and sent down from the heaven water, rain. God, exalted be He, says, as a complement to Moses’s description of Him and as an address to the people of Mecca: and therewith We brought forth various kinds, species, of plants (shattā, ‘various’, adjectivally qualifies azwājan, ‘kinds’), in other words, [plants] of different colours, flavours and [different] in other ways (shattā is the plural of shatīt, similar [in pattern] to marīd, [plural] mardā, as [may be used] in [a phrase like] shatta al-amr, ‘the affair has become divided’). Qur’an 50:7 And the earth! We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and have produced therein every kind of lovely growth (plants). quran 50.7 Here is what Jalalyn says about this verse: And the earth (wa’l-arda, is a supplement to the position of the words ilā l-samā’i, ‘at the heaven’), how, We have spread it out, [how] We have rolled it across the face of the water, and cast in it firm mountains, to fix it in place, and caused every delightful kind, [every delightful] specimen, causing delight by its [very] beauty, to grow in it, Qur’an 51:48 And We have spread out the earth: how Excellent spreader (thereof) are We!

and how does this say that the shape of the earth is flat? .. you know you're quoting out of context.

vedaxcool:

How does this explains away the fact that the bible in the new testament stated explicitly that satan carried Jesus to the highest point on earth and showed him all of earth's kingdom in its splendour, something impossible in spherical earth but possible on a flat earth. And don't tell the author of job = author of luke? You make me laugh . Anyway has anyone notice our pseudo scientist duplicity when it comes to the OT and NT, when murder, rape etc happens they say oh well it is OT it happened long ago and the NT abolished the OT, but when NT pops out a scientific anamoly they rush back and use the OT to abolish the NT.

Its good, for the first time, you reason out of the box, but bible didnt say they were stationary while Jesus was being showed the earthly kindly, nor was the moountian they were was mentioned. The simple explanation to that verse was that the devil tempted Jesus with earthly riches for Jesus to worship him. This does not nullify the the fact that the book of Isaiah and Job, written thousands of years before the koran, confirmed that the earth is circullar and hanged in a space.

Mr, can you please show me quranic verse that confirmed that the earth is circular or hanged on nothing (as explained in the book of job). The last time i check, the koran says allah spread out the out and created mountians, streams and rivers etc on it. The koran thought the earth of be flat!

You can proove otherwise.

golpen:

and how does this say that the shape of the earth is flat? .. you know you're quoting out of context.

Allah said he has spead out the earth. Allah compare the earth with a bed. Is a bed flat or circullar?

true2god: Allah said he has spead out the earth. Allah compare the earth with a bed. Is a bed flat or circullar?

you see, my friend...when you intentionally turn your heart away from the truth, your mind also goes somewhere else.

'the earth' as quoted in that verse you are talking of is not talking of the planet earth, but the soily earth...to make you understand better, just incase..you sha know' ground' , that's what ALLAH is talking about. and when HE says HE is a wonderful spreader, yes HE is.

the Quran says the planet earth is egg shaped, in surah 79 verse 30 , which is the most correct' description pf the earth as a planet.

the bible says the planet earth has four corners. stop arguing! check isaiah 11 vs 12 , revelation 7 vs 1 , daniel 4vs11.

golpen:

you see, my friend...when you intentionally turn your heart away from the truth, your mind also goes somewhere else.

'the earth' as quoted in that verse you are talking of is not talking of the planet earth, but the soily earth...to make you understand better, just incase..you sha know' ground' , that's what ALLAH is talking about. and when HE says HE is a wonderful spreader, yes HE is.

the Quran says the planet earth is egg shaped, in surah 79 verse 30 , which is the most correct' description pf the earth as a planet.

the bible says the planet earth has four corners. stop arguing! check isaiah 11 vs 12 , revelation 7 vs 1 , daniel 4vs11.

I dont think you are familiar with basic geography. The earth is divided into 4 cardinal corners, the NORTH, the EAST, the WEST, and the SOUTH. These are 4 corners of the earth. The biblical verses you quoted are consistent with modern geography with respect to earthly segmentation.

Surah 88:17-20 says the earth is spread out. Many verses of the quran supported the fact that the earth is spread out.

true2god: I dont think you are familiar with basic geography. The earth is divided into 4 cardinal corners, the NORTH, the EAST, the WEST, and the SOUTH. These are 4 corners of the earth. The biblical verses you quoted are consistent with modern geography with respect to earthly segmentation.

Surah 88:17-20 says the earth is spread out. Many verses of the quran supported the fact that the earth is spread out.

true2god pls now...im laughing seriously here ...when did cardinal points become corners? hehehehehe!
for your info, mr geographer, the four cardinal points are not even points as in concrete points. they are mere directions, oh brpther. pls be sound!

I've explained that verse you're quoting...don't bring it uo again if you can't debunk it

golpen:

true2god pls now...im laughing seriously here ...when did cardinal points become corners? hehehehehe!
for your info, mr geographer, the four cardinal points are not even points as in concrete points. they are mere directions, oh brpther. pls be sound!

I've explained that verse you're quoting...don't bring it uo again if you can't debunk it

Muslims 'egg shape' description is a new infusion into the quran which is subject to scholarly debate among modern-day muslims. Several verses of the quran described the earth as being spread out like bed (or even rug) and I can show you many surah that attest to that. If more than 30 verses of the quran said the earth is spread out, what else do you want me to believe?

The bible, as I said earlier, talked about the 4 corners of the earth. So if I may ask, are the north, east, west and the south no more the 4 corners of the earth? Please define your concept of '4 corners of the earth' so that we can learn. What is the difference bw 4 corners of the world and 4 directions of the world?

Remember, when the bible wrote '4 corners of the world', the modern compass is not yet available for modern navigation.

true2god: Muslims 'egg shape' description is a new infusion into the quran which is subject to scholarly debate among modern-day muslims. Several verses of the quran described the earth as being spread out like bed (or even rug) and I can show you many surah that attest to that. If more than 30 verses of the quran said the earth is spread out, what else do you want me to believe?

The bible, as I said earlier, talked about the 4 corners of the earth. So if I may ask, are the north, east, west and the south no more the 4 corners of the earth? Please define your concept of '4 corners of the earth' so that we can learn. What is the difference bw 4 corners of the world and 4 directions of the world?

Remember, when the bible wrote '4 corners of the world', the modern compass is not yet available for modern navigation.

the arabic word used in those verses means ground (earth) which is different from that used for planet earth..please follow simple explanations.

north, east, west and south have never been refered to as corners at any time. it is just your own manipulative mind that is thinking that way...they have been refered to as points. points of directions, not corners!

I know you now know and I understand how very difficult to accept a fault in what you have held so sacred all this while, but you have to face it brother. I'm not in for arguments again please...I'll just encourage you to make your findings and seek the truth...

golpen:

and how does this say that the shape of the earth is flat? .. you know you're quoting out of context.

Is a bed round or circular?

golpen:

the arabic word used in those verses means ground (earth) which is different from that used for planet earth..please follow simple explanations.

north, east, west and south have never been refered to as corners at any time. it is just your own manipulative mind that is thinking that way...they have been refered to as points. points of directions, not corners!

I know you now know and I understand how very difficult to accept a fault in what you have held so sacred all this while, but you have to face it brother. I'm not in for arguments again please...I'll just encourage you to make your findings and seek the truth...

I read the verse you gave me and what i read is that the earth is spread out. If you want me to believe that the quran was talkin about the ground (which is not true), is the groung actually spread out like bed as described in the quran? We all know that the earth surface is never smoothened like a bed, my little knowledge of geography is that there is an average of 4meter slope for every 1km. So the quranic concept that the world is 'spread out' is completely false.


The quran also said the moon and the sun are joined together in the verses below:

So when vision is dazzled. surah 75:8

And the moon darkens. surah 75:9

And the sun and the moon are joined, surah 75:10

Had there been anytime the moon and the sun are joined together or is this in agreement with modern science?

true2god: Its good, for the first time, you reason out of the box, but bible didnt say they were stationary while Jesus was being showed the earthly kindly, nor was the moountian they were was mentioned. The simple explanation to that verse was that the devil tempted Jesus with earthly riches for Jesus to worship him. This does not nullify the the fact that the book of Isaiah and Job, written thousands of years before the koran, confirmed that the earth is circullar and hanged in a space.

Mr, can you please show me quranic verse that confirmed that the earth is circular or hanged on nothing (as explained in the book of job). The last time i check, the koran says allah spread out the out and created mountians, streams and rivers etc on it. The koran thought the earth of be flat!

You can proove otherwise.

Mathew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

Please where is this very high mountain that I can see all of the kingdoms of the world in their splendor?

Maybe you should think out of the box, since it is entrepreneurship u are practicing . . .

vedaxcool:

Mathew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”

Please where is this very high mountain that I can see all of the kingdoms of the world in their splendor?

Maybe you should think out of the box, since it is entrepreneurship u are practicing . . .

The world, as at 2000yrs ago was not as developed as it is now. You can stand on a highest cliff and have a widest view of the earth. The writer of matthew is painting a picture here, and that is the glory of the world, which was shown to Jesus and to be given him as a gift, if only he bow down and worship the devil.

I know you are being sarcastic here, the bible had already made it clear that the earth is circullar and hanged on nothing (i.e on the space) and I have given you the bible verses that supports that claim.

surah 2:261:
The example of those who spend their wealth in the way of Allah is like a seed [of grain] which grows seven spikes; in each spike is a hundred grains. And Allah multiplies [His reward] for whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Can any muslim confirm if there are 100 grains for each spike of corn as contained in the above?

Question

Qur’an says that Allah has made the earth for you as
a carpet. This gives an indication that the earth is
flat. Does this not contradict established modern
science?


Answer

1. Earth made as a carpet
The question refers to a verse from the Qur’an in
Surah Nuh:

“And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet
(spread out).”
[Al-Qur’an
71:19]

But the sentence in the above verse is not complete.
It continues in the next verse, explaining the
previous verse. It says:
“That ye may go about therein, in spacious roads.”
[Al-Qur’an
71:20]

A similar message is repeated in Surah TaHa:
“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet
spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by
roads (and channels)....”
[Al-Qur’an
20:53]

The surface of the earth i.e. earth’s crust is less than
30 miles in thickness and is very thin as compared to
the radius of the earth which is about 3750 miles.
The deeper layers of the earth are very hot, fluid and
hostile to any form of life. The earth’s crust is a
solidified shell on which we can live. The Qur’an
rightly refers to it like a carpet spread out, so that we
can travel along its roads and paths.

2. Carpet can also be spread on other than an
absolute flat surface
Not a single verse of the Qur’an says that the earth is
flat. The Qur’an only compares the earth’s crust with
a carpet. Some people seem to think that carpet can
only be put on an absolute flat surface. It is possible
to spread a carpet on a large sphere such as the
earth. It can easily be demonstrated by taking a huge
model of the earth’s globe covering it with a carpet.
Carpet is generally put on a surface, which is not very
comfortable to walk on. The Qur’an describes the
earth crust as a carpet, without which human beings
would not be able to survive because of the hot, fluid
and hostile environment beneath it. The Qur’an is
thus not only logical, it is mentioning a scientific fact
that was discovered by geologists centuries later.

3. Earth has been spread out
Similarly, the Qur’an says in several verses that the
earth has been spread out.
“And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: how
excellently We do spread out!”
[Al-Qur’an 51:48]
Similarly the Qur’an also mentions in several other
verses that the earth is an expanse:
“Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse”
“And the mountains as pegs?”
[Al-Qur’an 78:6-7]
None of these verses of the Qur’an contain even the
slightest implication that the earth is flat. It only
indicates that the earth is spacious and the reason
for this spaciousness of the earth is mentioned. The
Glorious Qur’an says:
“O My servants who believe! truly. spacious is My
Earth: therefore serve ye Me – (And Me alone)!”
[Al-Qur’an 29:56]
Therefore none can give the excuse, that he could not
do good and was forced to do evil because of the
surroundings and circumstances.

4. Earth is geospherical in shape
The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in
the following verse:
“And we have made the earth egg shaped”.
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also
means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya
which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich
which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape
of the earth.

Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are
in perfect harmony. www.irf.net/faq/faq2_08.html

true2god: The world, as at 2000yrs ago was not as developed as it is now. You can stand on a highest cliff and have a widest view of the earth. The writer of matthew is painting a picture here, and that is the glory of the world, which was shown to Jesus and to be given him as a gift, if only he bow down and worship the devil.

I know you are being sarcastic here, the bible had already made it clear that the earth is circullar and hanged on nothing (i.e on the space) and I have given you the bible verses that supports that claim.

@bold


How would any adult think like this? if I get you right so meanthe world was so poorly developed that a certain mountain was high enough for satan to carry Jesus to and show all of earths kingdom in its splendor? This is shocking, you see why I call pseudo scientist and advice you stick to convincing your flock on the importance of paying their tithes

One last question where is this mountain?

^^ nice put

vedaxcool:

@bold


How would any adult think like this? if I get you right so meanthe world was so poorly developed that a certain mountain was high enough for satan to carry Jesus to and show all of earths kingdom in its splendor? This is shocking, you see why I call pseudo scientist and advice you stick to convincing your flock on the importance of paying their tithes

One last question where is this mountain?

You are yet to give me any proof, even very slightly, that Adam (or any animal) was 90 feet tall. You never give me any proof that early men were 90 feet, 80 feet, 70 feet,......15 feet or even 13 feet tall, aside from the fairy-tale painted in\by the hadith that muslims are even finding difficult to defend.


surah 2:261:
The example of those who spend their wealth in the way of Allah is like a seed [of grain] which grows seven spikes; in each spike is a hundred grains. And Allah multiplies [His reward] for whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
Can you please confirm if there are 100 grains for each spike of corn as contained in the above?

If you cant, does that mean that allah does not understand the number of grain in a spike of corn or confused?

^^ this guy ehn..

Rilwayne001: ^^ this guy ehn..

Answer the question, are there 100 grains on a spike of corn? If you cant answer the question, confirm (with proof), that early men, or immediate generation after adam, are 90 feet tall (or something close) as taught in the hadith.

true2god: Answer the question, are there 100 grains on a spike of corn? If you cant answer the question, confirm (with proof), that early men, or immediate generation after adam, are 90 feet tall (or something close) as taught in the hadith.

Face who you are argueing with and answer those question he asked you (which you are trying to evade)...after then i'll come in

true2god: The world, as at 2000yrs ago was not as developed as it is now. You can stand on a highest cliff and have a widest view of the earth. The writer of matthew is painting a picture here, and that is the glory of the world, which was shown to Jesus and to be given him as a gift, if only he bow down and worship the devil.

I know you are being sarcastic here, the bible had already made it clear that the earth is circullar and hanged on nothing (i.e on the space) and I have given you the bible verses that supports that claim.

Really? Was it the holy spirit that inspired this message or you just gave it out of your own wisdom? How far can the eyes see for Jesus to have seen the whole earth from the top of a mountain?

Even if Jesus A.S had telescopes for eyes, there is no way he could have seen the whole earth from the top of a mountain.

AbdH:

Really? Was it the holy spirit that inspired this message or you just gave it out of your own wisdom? How far can the eyes see for Jesus to have seen the whole earth from the top of a mountain?

Even if Jesus A.S had telescopes for eyes, there is no way he could have seen the whole earth from the top of a mountain.

While I prepare a rubost response, you can assist with this:

Answer the question, are there 100
grains on a spike of corn? If you cant
answer the question, confirm (with proof), that early men, or immediate generation after adam, are 90 feet tall (or something close) as taught in the hadith.

true2god: You are yet to give me any proof, even very slightly, that Adam (or any animal) was 90 feet tall. You never give me any proof that early men were 90 feet, 80 feet, 70 feet,......15 feet or even 13 feet tall, aside from the fairy-tale painted in\by the hadith that muslims are even finding difficult to defend.


surah 2:261:
The example of those who spend their wealth in the way of Allah is like a seed [of grain] which grows seven spikes; in each spike is a hundred grains. And Allah multiplies [His reward] for whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.
Can you please confirm if there are 100 grains for each spike of corn as contained in the above?

If you cant, does that mean that allah does not understand the number of grain in a spike of corn or confused?

Thaba's response on this topic is sufficient for the wise, that is why u have resorted in throwing more questions that also seems not to be going well. I have another question on the bible, can I ask it? Though I hope u are learned enough to provide answer.

Hi guys.

Just passing-by.

According to Tbaba, Adam was a great giant in Paradise but became short when he came to the earth. Right?

Was he created in Paradise first before he was taken or walked to the earth?

Is everybody in Paradise 90 ft tall?

How tall was the prophet when he was there in one-night?

Do people go to Paradise with physical body or is it the spirit that is that tall?

[//quote author=truthman2012]Hi guys.

Was he created in Paradise first before he was taken or walked to the earth?

[size=15pt]Hi, how are you?

@blue, Can you explain how water is found in coconut?. Perhaps, this is a similar case[/size]

truthman2012: Hi guys.

Just passing-by.

According to Tbaba, Adam was a great giant in Paradise but became short when he came to the earth. Right?
Was he created in Paradise first before he was taken or walked to the earth?
Is everybody in Paradise 90 ft tall?
How tall was the prophet when he was there in one-night?
Do people go to Paradise with physical body or is it the spirit that is that tall?

God Almighty already had His plans in place way before He created Adam. Why He created Him (and his progeny) best known to God. We believe from all indications and reference(s) from Quran that Adam was created in Heavens. The fact is Adam(as) was created for earth.
Chapter 2 (al-Baqarah) verses 30-39: The Creation

"When your Lord said to the angels, “I am going to place a vicegerent on the earth,” the angels said, “Will You place on the earth the one who shall act wickedly in it and shed blood; whereas we sing Your praise and glorify You?” Allah said, “Surely I know what you do not know.”

And [after creating Adam] Allah taught Adam all the names. Then He presented those to the angels and said, “Tell me the names of these if you are true [in what your assumption that you are more superior than Adam].” They said, “Glory be to You! We have no knowledge except what You have taught us. You are surely the All-Knowing, the Wise.” [Then] He said, “O Adam! Tell them the names of those [persons].” When Adam told them those names, Allah said [to the angels], “Didn't I say to you that I know the unseen things of the heavens and the earth, and I know what you manifest and what you hide.”

And [remember] when We said to the angels, “Prostrate before Adam.” All of them prostrated except Iblis, who refused and was haughty, and [thus] he became one of the unbelievers.

In Paradise:

[After creating Hawwa}, We said, “O Adam, Dwell you and your wife in the Garden and eat from it [freely] as many [things] as you wish; but do not approach this tree, otherwise you will become one of the ¨alimeen اَلظَّالِمِيْنَ .”

But the Shaytan made them slip (اَزَلَّهُما) from that [Garden by luring them to eat the fruit of the forbidden tree] and thus got them out from the state [of felicity] in which they had been.

So We said [to Adam, Hawwa, and the Shaytan that, “All of you] get down [from the Garden to the earth] some of you being the enemies of the other, and there is on the earth your abode and the necessities [of life] for a [fixed period of] time.” [Adam felt ashamed and intended to ask Allah's forgiveness.] So Adam learnt some words from his Lord, and Allah turned to him mercifully (تَابَ عَلَيْهِ). Surely He is the Most- Forgiving, the Merciful. We said, “All of you get down from the Garden. [Once you are on the earth], a guidance will certainly come to you from Me: whosoever follows My guidance, there will be no fear for them nor shall they grieve. But those who disbelieve and reject Our revelation, they are the inmates of the Fire, in it they shall abide.”
Chapter 7 (al-A'râf) verses 19-25

[Allah said,] “O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Garden and eat from wherever you wish; but do not approach this tree, otherwise you will become one of the ¨alimeen اَلظَّالِمِيْنَ”

Then the Shaytan instilled temptation into them so as to reveal to them their private parts that were hidden from them. He said, “Your Lord has only prohibited you from this tree lest you both become rulers, or lest you become immortals.” [To ensure that his temptation will work, the Shaytan] swore to them both that, “Truly, I am a sincere adviser for you.” Thus he misled them by delusion.

So when they tasted [the fruit of] the tree, their private parts became manifest to them, and both of them started to cover themselves with the leaves of the Garden. Their Lord called out to them, “Did I not prohibit both of you from this tree and say to you that the Shaytan is your open enemy?”
They said, “Our Lord! We have been unjust to ourselves (¨alamna ظلمنا أنفُسَنا); and if You do not forgive us and have mercy on us, we shall surely be among the losers.”

Allah said, “Get down [to the earth], some of you being the enemies of the others; and there is on the earth your abode and necessities [of life] for a time.” He said, “Therein you shall live, therein you shall die, and from it you shall be raised [again].”

The above show that Adam Peace be upon him) was created in Heavens for earth. However, Islam does not ascribe mankind's life on earth as a punishment, rather as part of God's plan. Hope this helps.

true2god: you really got knocked out in this thread by muslims here from tbaba1234 to the last of us. ehehehehe

updated....

Lol. Brothers please take it easy on him.

Abuamam:
Lol. Brothers please take it easy on him.

This was true2god when he used to be nice religious gentleman before he turned bigot lately.

Empiree:
true2god: you really got knocked out on this thread by muslims here from tbaba1234 to the last of us. ehehehehe

updated....

did you just say adam was created in heaven? I need short answer.

malvisguy212:
did you just say adam was created in heaven? I need short answer.

I dont necessarily remember but kindly quote me so i know what you talking about cuz i dont know where you going with your indirect question. Thanks