CAN OBEDIENCE BE COMPLETE, AND TOTAL WITHOUT THE OPTION TO DISOBEY? CAN I BE SAID TO BE A FAITHFUL SON/SERVANT OF GOD, IF I WAS NEVER GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO REBEL OR DISOBEY?
SO, GUYS IS EVIL A NECESSARY TOOL IN THE HANDS OF GOD?
IS THE DEVIL A COMMISSIONED AGENT OF GOD? WHO PARADOXICALLY IS ALSO CONDEMNED FOR DOING THE BIDDING OF GOD?

CAN THE DEVIL, WITHOUT DUE PERMISSION FROM GOD, EXECUTE ANY UNILATERAL PLAN AGAINST HUMANITY?,

I THINK GOD IS GOD, AND ALL CO-EXIST IN HIM, BUT WE LACK THE HUMAN COMPREHENSION TO UNDERSTAND ALL HIS WAYS, AND APPRECIATE HIS UTMOST HOLINESS, INSPITE OF ALL

enough SAID,

KunleOshob:

CAN OBEDIENCE BE COMPLETE, AND TOTAL WITHOUT THE OPTION TO DISOBEY? CAN I BE SAID TO BE A FAITHFUL SON/SERVANT OF GOD, IF I WAS NEVER GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO REBEL OR DISOBEY?
SO, GUYS IS EVIL A NECESSARY TOOL IN THE HANDS OF GOD?
IS THE DEVIL A COMMISSIONED AGENT OF GOD? WHO PARADOXICALLY IS ALSO CONDEMNED FOR DOING THE BIDDING OF GOD?

CAN THE DEVIL, WITHOUT DUE PERMISSION FROM GOD, EXECUTE ANY UNILATERAL PLAN AGAINST HUMANITY?,

I THINK GOD IS GOD, AND ALL CO-EXIST IN HIM, BUT WE LACK THE HUMAN COMPREHENSION TO UNDERSTAND ALL HIS WAYS, AND APPRECIATE HIS UTMOST HOLINESS, INSPITE OF ALL

enough SAID, 

My perception is that the idea that the ways of God are incomprehensible is an excuse to explain away very clear contradictions. God cannot be good and evil, perfect and imperfect, holy and unholy etc . The attributes of God include holiness, omnipotence, perfection, purity, justice, love. Evil, sin, imperfection, injustice etc are not attributes of God. Indeed if God can do evil or commision satan to do evil, why then will the same God punish satan and his followers for doing the bidding of God. I think the contradiction in such a thought or idea is very clear.

Satan is the origin of the evil principle and satan and his followers propagate evil or sin as a result of their free will. Satan and his followers do not have permission from God to sin or do evil. It is not difficult to understand this. Just look around you and your enviroment and pose the question " Do those that murder, gossip, slander against their neighbour obtain permission from God". Certainly not. They never even asked for a permission or consent for if they did, they will not be evil for God will not give consent to evil or evil acts. God do not use evil or evil acts as an end in itself or a means to an end. The will of God is not incomprehensible. The will of God or the ways of God is very comprehensible to the spirit of man. It is only incomrehensible to the human brain. It is very clear and where men live according to the will of God, only joy, beauty, inner peace and supreme happiness are the result. Evil has no place where creatures follow the ways of God. In heaven which is the kingdom of God, where all creatures swing in the will of God, their is no evil, no satan. Even on earth you will always come across some human beings who live according to the laws of God and when you visit the homes of such people or have personal interaction with them, you will feel the joy, the happiness, the peace from such men irrespective of their religious affliations, social satus, etc. We do not need to look so far. One should just look around and he or she will find a confirmation in his life and that of his neighbour that evil is not from God. Stay blessed.

@m_nwanko
while i do not dis agree with anything you have posted, one question comes to mind: why can't or why didn't God simply destroy satan? Or why didn't God restrict him from having contact with humans?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2011:32

32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Felix culpa is a Latin phrase that literally translated means a "blessed fault" or "fortunate fall". As a religious term it refers to Adam and Eve's fall and the loss of the Garden of Eden, known theologically as the source of original sin. The phrase is sung annually in the Exsultet of the Easter Vigil: "O felix culpa quae talem et tantum meruit habere redemptorem," "O happy fault that merited such and so great a Redeemer." The medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas [1] cited this line when he explained how the principle that "God allows evils to happen in order to bring a greater good therefrom" underlies the causal relationship between original sin and the Divine Redeemer's Incarnation.
The phrase "Oh happy fault!" is used in colloquial English, especially among intellectuals.[citation needed]
In a literary context, the term "felix culpa" can be used to describe how a series of miserable events will eventually lead to a happier outcome. The theological concept is one of the underlying themes of Raphael Carter's science fiction novel The Fortunate Fall; the novel's title is explicitly derived from the Latin phrase. John Milton also invokes ideas of felix culpa in his epic poem Paradise Lost.
[edit]

From wikipedia.

KunleOshob:

@m_nwanko
while i do not this agree with anything you have posted, one question comes to mind: why can't or why didn't God simply destroy satan? Or why didn't God restrict him from having contact with humans?

Hi Kunle. Thanks for raising very serious questions. I will answer as follows. It is the perfection of God that makes it impossible for God to destroy satan. Satan was an archangel and like all archangels, satan came into existence in the divine sphere. The divine sphere and the beings in it have been in existence before spiritual creation came into existence. The divine beings are among the first specie of beings  that precipitated or cooled off from the direct radiation of God and as such are eternal. Eternal is used in the sense that even if spiritual creation (the last plane in spiritual creation is paradise or what is often referred to as the kingdom of God) is to cease to exist, divine beings and the divine sphere will continue to exist since the divine region is not within creation but outside of creation. It is important to point out here that everything outside of God is the radiation of God. Thus we have God and his radiation. The radiation of God is so intense in the proximity of God and the closeness to God makes it impossible for these radiations to cool off and precipitate. Thus the proximity of God or the direct radiations of God are so near to the source of these radiations, that is to God that no being can come into existence. This region consists of oceans of divine flames. It is only beyound these oceans of divine flames, at incomprehensible distance from God did these radiations cool off for the first time and from the cooling off came into existence the divine beings of which the archangels are just one of the species. Therefore God created satan, the archangel to be eternal. In the divine region only the will of God reigns because the pressure due to the proximity of God does not permit any other will to arise. Thus there can be no rebellion in the divine region. When God created the spirtual creation, the spirtual creation is subjected to a lesser degree of pressure since it is further away from God but this pressure is still so intense as not to permit any other will except the will of God. Thus it is also impossible to rebel or oppose God in spiritual creation of which heaven or paradise is the last plane. Thus satan did not rebel in heaven either. Unlike spiritual creation, God did not directly create material creations, that is ethereal matter (matter invicible to physical senses and its present or future instruments) and gross matter (matter that is visible to the physical senses and its instruments or that will become visible as higher resolution instruments are invented in future). The world of matter came into existence via the activity of spiritual beings in the highest part of spiritual creation. These primordial spirtual beings brought the world of matter into existence by acting as transformers for the radiation of God that has cooled down several times. The world of matter is the soil where the human spirit seeds that came into existence in the lowest part of spiritual creation (paradise) is to develop and mature into a spirtual tree (a human spirit) with a personality, a self consciousness and a name. In other words, the world of matter is the soil to which the spirit seeds are sown since it has all the elements necessary for the development of this spirit seeds. Lucifer, the archangel was sent by God from outside of creation(divine sphere) to the world of matter. The purpose of his mission is to develop and help the new human spirits who have just germinated  to develop in the sense of the laws of God and be able to return to paradise as a self counscious human spirit. The world of matter is so far  from God and thus are subjected to a very low level of the pressure of Gods power. This very low or slackened pressure makes it possible for creatures inhabiting the material worlds to activate a will that contradicts the will of God.  It is this slackened pressure of Gods power that allowed Lucifer to have a will that contradicts the will of the creator, an event that is impossible in the divine and spiritual worlds. Lucifer contradicted the will of God by introducing the principle of temptation. The principle of temptation contradicts the will of God. God is love and the principle of temptation contradicts the love of God. Thus Lucifer, the archangel underwent cooling off and densification and became an evil spirt which is often called satan. In the proceess of densification and becoming a spirit, lucifer have free will, an attribute which was not originally in him as an archangel. In becoming a spirit, lucifer was authomatically cut of from his origin in the divine sphere, and thus satan can only stay under the world of matter and send his evil influences to the human spirits inhabiting the world of matter.

Free will means that a being has a choice to decide but has no power to compel others to follow his or her will. Thus according to the laws of God, satan can only tempt but it is impossible for satan to compel any man to do his bidding. Men can be tempted by satan or his agents but the decision to succumb or reject the temptation lies with man. The laws of God or the perfection of God allows satan to use his free will, the same perfection allows men to succumb or reject the the snares or temptations from lucifer or his agents. The laws of God makes it impossible for satan to force his will on men.

Although satan is no more an archagel but a spirit, he still remains eternal as he was originally created by God. Gods perfection is synonymous with all knowing and having given the attribute of eternity to Lucifer that later became satan, God cannot nullify or destroy this attribute in satan. However satan shall be chained and his influence in the world of matter abrogated by the power of God. The process of chaining of lucifer involve a battle betwwen satan and the son of man. The chaining of satan and prevention/destruction of his evil influences is one of the signs that will ursher in the 1000 year reign of God on earth, the millenium. Thus in the millenium, satan and his influence will not have contact with men. One last point is probably necessary. The world of matter is subject to birth, growth, development, decay and transformation resulting in a new birth. A human spirit that did not develop as God wills will not be able to escape matter (gross matter or ethereal matter) and will thus undergo decay or disnitegration with matter. This painful process of disintegration destroys the form of the spirit and thus the spirit with its personality and self consciousness cease to exist. In otherwords it reverts back to a spirit seed which has no name, no counsciousnes and no personality as it was originally created. That is the most terrible thing that can befall a human spirit who have previously acquired a personality and a self consciousness. Satan however is under the world of matter and is thus not subject to disnintegration or destruction. The son of man has to decend to under the world of matter for the personal battle that ends with the chaining of satan. Stay blessed.

KunleOshob:

CAN OBEDIENCE BE COMPLETE, AND TOTAL WITHOUT THE OPTION TO DISOBEY? CAN I BE SAID TO BE A FAITHFUL SON/SERVANT OF GOD, IF I WAS NEVER GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO REBEL OR DISOBEY?
SO, GUYS IS EVIL A NECESSARY TOOL IN THE HANDS OF GOD?
IS THE DEVIL A COMMISSIONED AGENT OF GOD? WHO PARADOXICALLY IS ALSO CONDEMNED FOR DOING THE BIDDING OF GOD?

CAN THE DEVIL, WITHOUT DUE PERMISSION FROM GOD, EXECUTE ANY UNILATERAL PLAN AGAINST HUMANITY?,

[b]I THINK GOD IS GOD, AND ALL CO-EXIST IN HIM, BUT WE LACK THE HUMAN COMPREHENSION TO UNDERSTAND ALL HIS WAYS, AND APPRECIATE HIS UTMOST HOLINESS, INSPITE OF ALL[/b]

enough SAID, 

I think u answered ur question with that submission. . .

@M_nwanko
Interesting post, but what is the source of your submissions and how do you know it is genuine.

It is important to point out here that everything outside of God is the radiation of God. Thus we have God and his radiation. The radiation of God is so intense in the proximity of God and the closeness to God makes it impossible for these radiations to cool off and precipitate. Thus the proximity of God or the direct radiations of God are so near to the source of these radiations,

this is purely intellectual mumbo jumbo. if God destroys humans with ease, why can't he destroy another one of this creations. isn't God the omniPOTENT one??

KunleOshob:

@M_nwanko
Interesting post, but what is the source of your submissions and how do you know it is genuine.

Hi again Kunle. Thanks for your honest questions. The source of my submissions is the work "In The Light of Truth-The Grail Message". Every human being has a spiritual faculty to recognise what is genuine and true. Besides what is genuine will always be in synchronism with justice and love of God. It is not in doubt that man has free will. It is also not in doubt that satan has free will. It is also not in doubt that satan temptes men. It is also not in doubt that some men succumb to it while others reject the temptations. There is also no single evidence both in former, present and future epochs or events to show that satan can be destroyed. When you put all this together, they are good pointers to the genuiness of the explanations I posted above. Ultimately I know that it is genuine because I know. Knowledge however involves the exercise of the spiritual faculty of intuition. Stay blessed.

bawomolo:

this is purely intellectual mumbo jumbo. if God destroys humans with ease, why can't he destroy another one of this creations. isn't God the omniPOTENT one??

Why do you ask questions when you have already passed judjement on what I stated as "intellectual mumbo jumbo".

m_nwankwo:

Why do you ask questions when you have already passed judjement on what I stated as "intellectual mumbo jumbo".

pardon me, so why can't the devil be destroyed by an omnipotent god

bawomolo:

pardon me, so why can't the devil be destroyed by an omnipotent god

God cannot destroy the archangel that became the devil because God originally created the archangel to be eternal. Thus it is not a lack of omnipotence, rather it is that that the divine radiation of God that took on form as lucifer is indestructible. Omnipotence should be considered in the context of the will of God. If the will of God is that archangels are eternal, then God cannot will anew for the archangels to loose their eternality. Just an earthly example, God created a corn seed to be corn. God cannot change the corn seed to be mango seed. Will you call the "inability" of God to change corn to mango as absence of omnipotence? Again, another example, God cannot sin. Will you then consider it lack of omnipotence because God cannot sin? Omnipotence means that God is all powerful within the context of his will. Thus the omnipotence of God follows the road decreed into existence by the will of God. Thus things like converting corn to mango, God commiting sin, destruction of lucifer lie outside the will of God and are hence impossibilties. Stay blessed.

God cannot destroy the archangel that became the devil because God originally created the archangel to be eternal. Thus it is not a lack of omnipotence

but if God is omnipotent why cant he reverse his eternal creation. omnipotency should also mean reversing the irreversible. what's your source for the claim that the archangel is eternal

bawomolo:

but if God is omnipotent why can he reverse his eternal creation. omnipotency should also mean reversing the irreversible. what's your source for the claim that the archangel is eternal

God is omniscience and perfect too and what is created out of omniscience cannot be reversed on changed. That is the reason why God cannot change or reverse his eternal creation.When a thing is reversed, modified or changed, that shows that it originally did not arise out of all knowing, out of perfection. What arose out of perfect knowledge cannot be reversed, revised, anulled or modified. Thus put the attributes of perfection, omnipotence and omniscience together and that may help you understand how God works. I wonder how you will feel if you are a farmer and sowed grapes and at harvest time you reap thorns. The perfection of God does not allow such an abberation. As in the small process of grapes and thorns, so it is in complex processes as creation and the mechanisms by which creations are maintained. The source of my statement that archangels are eternal is the "Grail Message". Stay blessed.

so in order words, there are limits to the power of GOD

bawomolo:

so in order words, there are limits to the power of GOD

The word limitation conveys a wrong picture. Gods power is not limited. Rather it is that the power of God creates, maintains and develop worlds in accordance with the will of God. I will rather say that Gods perfection makes God to obey his own laws. Thus a stone cannot become bread, neither will mango become apple etc

guys enlighten us.

In addition to what m_nwankwo has already said; I like to share my own perception on the issue.

I would say that Lucifer(who later became Satan) was not created. Lucifer, like all beings that originated in the Divine plane (the immediate radiation of God) was not created; rather, they are the consequence of the existence of the light.

God Himself is comparable to light. Being Light, He radiates; the Divine plane with all the beings that took on form in it, are the radiation of God.

I repeat: God is Light. Light has to radiate. The radiation of God is the Divine substantiality plane. God Himself is Divine unsubstantiality. Or better said; God is God; He is above all.

Consider even the light we see everyday. We see the radiation of the light, and this is what we call light. The actual Light itself cannot be seen. The light cannot be without its radiation!

The relationship between light and its radiation is comparable to the relationship between God and the Divine plane. Both are eternal and had existed before creation and before any creature was created.

God is such a powerful Light that His rays or His radiations take on living forms and express his will. Just as the rays or radiation of light express the nature of light and offer us visibility. Thus the visible form of light is the rays, or radiation. But a ray of light can stray so far away from the light or pass through another medium that will make it no longer express the nature of the light. Consider a ray from a white light passing through a green medium or glass; once the ray passes through this medium, its color becomes green. Thus no longer expressing the true color of the Light.

None can see the form of God or the actual nature of God, but His rays or radiations are the visible forms of his will that takes on form. The Divine substantiate beings are such forms. The Divine substantiate plane is the radiation of the Primordial Light called God.

This is why Lucifer cannot be eliminated. Lucifer originated in the immediate radiation of God. The substance that he is made of is or was part of is the radiation of God. It is comperable to the substance a ray of light is made of. As long as the light remains, the ray has to remain.

Even the light bulb in your room or in your office. Once you turn on the light, radiations or rays issue from it and offer you visibility. As long as the light remains on, the rays or radiations has to remain. You cannot have light without rays or radiations; neither can the light stop it's rays or its radiation because it is a consequence of its existence.

All that took on form in the immediate radiation of God are good and express the will of God. But Lucifer was sent far away from the immediate radiation of God. Lucifer was sent into subsequent creation to aid the human spirits in their development.  Due to this distance from God, Lucifer developed a will of his own and in his impatience with the weak human spirits, the wrong principle arouse in him. He introduced the principle of temptation instead of the principle of love. Love, which stands in the will of God, demands he wait hand and foot for the human spirits to mature. In place of supporting love, he introduced the principle of temptation. Therefore the principle of temptation contradicts the will of God. By tempting the weak human spirits, so many of them fell, and by yielding to temptation, they may become altogether lost. This way the Shepperd became a wolf devouring his subjects. By acting against the will of God, he lost his connection with the Divine plane, and consequently became like a spirit. This is how he became Satan.

What happened to Lucifer can be compare to the ray that strayed from expressing the color of the light, by passing through a foreign medium. No matter how much the ray changes, the light cannot eliminate it. As long as the light remains, the ray will remain. This is a course analogy though.

Creatures or created beings are different. Creatures, including spirits, are derivatives from the radiation of God, not the radiation itself or part of the radiation or a condensation of the radiation.

Lucifer is not a creature. Neither is the Primordial Queen, nor the four winged animals at the steps of the throne of God, the arch angels and the angels in the Divine subsatantiate plane, and the 24 elders in the Divine subsatantiate plane. None of these are creatures.

The analogy of light, rays and radiations is a course analogy that faintly reflects the Truth. The Truth of the matter is that the relationship between God and Lucifer is far above our origin and ability to comprehend. As Human spirits we will never be able to completely know or understand what is Divine. We can only envisage it with analogies with things familiar with us. Therefore the truth about this issue is beyond the human spirit; the best explanation given by a human spirit concerning this issue will remain wanting.

This is my perception of the issue from my experiencing of the Grail message. I advice every reader of my post to read the Grail message himself, and make up his mind based on his own personal expereincing.

you already know who is SATAN my master

Ogaga4Luv you be Satanist? wetin man no go see for nairaland?

O yeah,amzaje,i bi [i][b]SATANIST[/b][/i***