hisblud:

of course hence He did away with sin by making His Son to become sin...ONCE FOR ALL TIME...!

hisblud:

please could you list verses that have the words "eternal death" in it after the death of Christ. thanks

atbu1983:

Your concept of salvation is more of perversion of d truth that was promoted by some america envagelica preachers. This erroneous twisting of d gospel remove our attention from God. It promote greed and evil.

Even before christ died for our sin, people were still considered righteous in d old testament. They were considered righteous not because they never do wrong but because thier heart was focus on God and they strife for righteousness.

Now that christ have died for us, and we are born again, does it mean we are safe for ever even when we continously and deliberately do wrong (sin).? The answer is No!

Should we continue in sin so dat grace shall abide, d bible said God forbid. romans 6. From verse 15 shown below

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law
but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to
whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that
one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death,
or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be
thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed
from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were
delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became
slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because
of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented
your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness
leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members
as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard
to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the
things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those
things is death. But now having been set free from sin,
and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to
holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of
sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus
our Lord.

Apostle Paul went further to say Christianity is a race that one can lose d prize if not done delligently to the end. 1corinthians 9. 23 to 27

23 I do it all
for the sake of the gospel, r that I may share with them in
its blessings.
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run,
but only one receives s the prize? So t run that you may
obtain it. 25 Every u athlete exercises self-control in all
things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we
v an imperishable. 26 So I do not run aimlessly; I w do not
box as one x beating the air. 27 But I discipline my body and
y keep it under control, 2 lest after preaching to others z I
myself should be a disqualified.

Now does it mean we are justified by work alone? not at all. do we sustain our salvation by grace alone? not at all! We have a role to play. Though christ has died for all mankind more than 2000 years ago, we are only saved d day we confess and believe in our heart d death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The grace of God is what made God to makes us a new being by mere confession. The grace of God applify our good deed before God and downplay our weaknesses and wrongdoing (sin) b4 God. That is why we need to discipline our body and put it under control as apostle said.

Thus we can be disqualified (lose our salvation) as stated by apostle paul in 1corinthians if we take d grace of God for granted. Because as humans we have weaknesses, we should strife for physical righteousness even as we are spiritually righteous by d Grace of God through christ Jesus. For faith without work is dead.

Though we are saved by Grace d day we are born again, we sustain our salvation by fighting a good fight of faith and subjecting our body to control with d grace of God helping us. Just as we consciously made a decision to be born again and d grace of God made it possible so also we should consciously pursue physical righteousness and d grace of God will help us achieve it b4 God. God sees d inclination of our heart. He knows when we make deliberate effort to do right. So because of his Grace he overlook even when we fall once in a while.
However when we deliberately live in sin because of we find sin pleasurable and sweet, because we feel d grace of God is always available, by dat we have already brought judgement on our self. As we can see in 1corinthians 5 shown below

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you,
and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has
his father's wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have
been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man
who did this? 3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with
you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who
did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the
name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power
of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so
that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the
day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a
little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of
the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you
really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8
Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast
of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread
of sincerity and truth. 9 I have written you in my letter not to
associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the
people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers,
or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone
who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an
idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man
do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those
outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will
judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."



You can see in 1corinthians 5 above paul is referring strictly to believers who find it very comfortable doing wrong without shame. If you medidate on verse 5 you will see that our spirit can become on safe by d action of our flesh. We should grief when we do wrong and not b proud of it as stated in verse 2

Ukutsgp: i am not upholding any catholic doctrines. i have already shown him that u cant do away with d ten commandment. the moral laws stands but the ceremonial law has been done away with by christ death. so will must continue to do d moral laws such as 'thou shall not kill'.

labot: Dear Ukutsg, do you know who first promulgated that the law contains moral, ceremonial and judicial precepts? That both the ceremonial and judicial precepts are no longer binding but the moral is still binding? Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas(1225-1274). Yes the catholic doctrine you so condemn yet are now upholding. The Bible does not divide the Law of Moses into "moral laws", "ceremonial laws" and "judicial or civil law" as if the moral laws were somehow more eternally and universally binding than the others. Now Gal 3:19 says: What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added [later on, after the promise, to disclose and expose to men their guilt] because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. And it [the Law] was arranged and ordained and appointed through the instrumentality of angels [and was given] by the hand (in the person) of a go-between [Moses, an intermediary person between God and man]. Amplified Bible (AMP).
[b]The verse said the Law, not ceremonial and judicial law but the Law as a whole. [/b]Please quote the bible as it is don't add and don't remove. God bless you.

labot: [/b][b].
The Law Does Not Justify
Perhaps the clearest Scripture regarding the relationship of lawkeeping to our justification is Galatians 2:16: "Yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law, because no flesh will be justified by the works of the law."

Paul explains this again in Romans 9:30-33:What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who didn't follow after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith; but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, didn't arrive at the law of
righteousness. Why? Because they didn't seek it by faith, but as it were by works of the law. They stumbled over the stumbling stone; even as it is written, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and a rock of offense; and no one who believes in him will be disappointed."
In this passage, Paul is saying that Israel did not attain righteousness. They missed it because they tried to attain it by law-keeping, and, because they did not have faith, they found Jesus Christ a stumbling stone. The Gentiles, on the other hand, found righteousness by faith in Christ.

In Romans 3, we read,
As it is written, "There is no one righteous; no, not one...."
Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God. Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight. For through the law
comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance; to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus. Where then is the
boasting? It is excluded. By what manner of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:10, 19-28
From the above bible passages, do you want us to believe that the ten commandments is the same as faith in Christ? I’m sure you’ll agree with me that it is not. As Christians we are free but we are not to use that liberty as an occasion for flesh (Galatians 5:13). As I stated in my earlier post, it is the Holy Spirit who instills into us new habits. We gradually start hating the sinful habits we have and start loving the new habits the Holy Spirit is instilling into us. It’s a gradual process and a pleasant spiritual awareness. Well I guess it’s only those who have undergone it, will understand it. This is what you feel concerning sin: You'll feel sorry but have no fear of condemnation (because you’re in Christ) even when and if you sin yet you gradually abandon your sinful ways. It is not a physical thing, it’s spiritual.
 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden and overburdened, and I will cause you to rest. [I will [a]ease and relieve and [b]refresh [c]your souls.]
 Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am gentle (meek) and humble (lowly) in heart, and you will find rest ([d]relief and ease and refreshment and [e]recreation and blessed quiet) for your souls.
 For My yoke is wholesome (useful, [f]good—not harsh, hard, sharp, or pressing, but comfortable, gracious, and pleasant), and My burden is light and easy to be borne.
Matthew 11:28-30 Amplified Bible (AMP)

paxonel:
because he does not believe in JESUS, he believes in his works. he does not have faith, it is either his faith or his works he should choose one
Romans 11:6 And if by grace (faith ), then it is no more of works...
since he has choosed works over faith then.he is not different from a Muslim or anybody outside christianity
he believes by mouth, but by action. (because he is more of works ) he has denied the faith
remember, action speaks louder than voice
that means, he is condemned already into hell fire John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already...

5solas:
Lol. I get your point.

paxonel:
did. you follow the ,argument at all? it's not by writing. plenty things o,, make your argument logically

Ukutsgp: J
......
so we are saved by faith but that does not mean we should not obey God's word. by keeping his commandment. avoiding sin, giving to the poor and many more. we must live right else our faith is useless.

Ukutsgp: d mods are making me angry. all what i have been typing since disappeared. i'm out for now.

Ukutsgp: are we not suppose to obey the ten commandment? is the moral laws no longer relevant?

Ukutsgp: James 2:14-26 English Standard Version
(ESV)
What good is it, my brothers, if
someone says he has faith but does not
have works? Can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister is poorly clothed
and lacking in daily food, and one of
you says to them, “Go in peace, be
warmed and filled,” without giving them
the things needed for the body, what good
is that? So also faith by itself, if it
does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith
and I have works.” Show me your faith
apart from your works, and I will show
you my faith by my works. You believe
that God is one; you do well. Even the
demons believe—and shudder! Do you
want to be shown, you foolish person,
that faith apart from works is useless?
Was not Abraham our father justified
by works when he offered up his son
Isaac on the altar? You see that faith
was active along with his works, and faith
was completed by his works; and the
Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham
believed God, and it was counted to him
as righteousness”—and he was called a
friend of God. You see that a person is
justified by works and not by faith alone.
And in the same way was not also
Rahab the prostitute justified by works
when she received the messengers and
sent them out by another way? For as
the body apart from the spirit is dead, so
also faith apart from works is dead.
so we are saved by faith but that does not mean we should not obey God's word. by keeping his commandment. avoiding sin, giving to the poor and many more. we must live right else our faith is useless.

atbu1983:

Your concept of salvation is more of perversion of d truth that was promoted by some america envagelica preachers. This erroneous twisting of d gospel remove our attention from God. It promote greed and evil.

2 Cor 5:19-21

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
[/b]KJV

Rom 3:9-19

[b]9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
KJV

Now that christ have died for us, and we are born again, does it mean we are safe for ever even when we continously and deliberately do wrong (sin).? The answer is No! Should we continue in sin so dat grace shall abide, d bible said God forbid.

romans 6. From verse 15 shown below

What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law
but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to
whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that
one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death,
or of obedience leading to righteousness?

But God be
thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed
from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were
delivered.

And having been set free from sin, you became
slaves of righteousness.

I speak in human terms because
of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented
your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness
leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members
as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard
to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the
things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those
things is death. But now having been set free from sin,
and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to
holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of
sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus
our Lord.

Apostle Paul went further to say Christianity is a race that one can lose d prize if not done delligently to the end. 1 Cor 9:24-27

24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
KJV

Gal 5:4-7

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
KJV

Now does it mean we are justified by work alone? not at all. do we sustain our salvation by grace alone? not at all! We have a role to play.

Eph 2:4-10

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
KJV

Col 2:6-7

6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
KJV

Though christ has died for all mankind more than 2000 years ago, we are only saved d day we confess and believe in our heart d death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
KJV

Thus we can be disqualified (lose our salvation) as stated by apostle paul in 1corinthians if we take d grace of God for granted. Because as humans we have weaknesses, we should strife for physical righteousness even as we are spiritually righteous by d Grace of God through christ Jesus. For faith without work is dead.

Gal 5:4-7

4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
KJV

Though we are saved by Grace d day we are born again, we sustain our salvation by fighting a good fight of faith and subjecting our body to control with d grace of God helping us. Just as we consciously made a decision to be born again and d grace of God made it possible so also we should consciously pursue physical righteousness and d grace of God will help us achieve it b4 God.

God sees d inclination of our heart. He knows when we make deliberate effort to do right. So because of his Grace he overlook even when we fall once in a while.
However when we deliberately live in sin because of we find sin pleasurable and sweet, because we feel d grace of God is always available, by dat we have already brought judgement on our self.

As we can see in 1corinthians 5 shown below

It is actually reported that there is intimate immorality among you,
and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has
his father's wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have
been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man
who did this? 3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with
you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who
did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the
name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power
of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so
that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the
day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a
little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of
the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you
really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8
Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast
of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread
of sincerity and truth. 9 I have written you in my letter not to
associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the
people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers,
or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone
who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an
idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man
do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those
outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will
judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

You can see in 1corinthians 5 above paul is referring strictly to believers who find it very comfortable doing wrong without shame. If you medidate on verse 5 you will see that our spirit can become on safe by d action of our flesh. We should grief when we do wrong and not b proud of it as stated in verse 2

Ukutsgp: and people still commits sin. sin is still present. but we have access to his mercy without performing any ritual such as killing goat, turtle dove, lambs etc. we can go directly to God for mercy through Christ.

Ukutsgp: .
Eternal death. 2Thessalonials 1:9. This is the
most dangerous type of death. It is separation
from God and His blessings for ever. In
connection with both the above mentioned types
of death, God has made some solutions and we
can still avail the benefit of it, but eternal death
means there is no way out, away from God
everlastingly. This death is also called second
death. Cf. Revelation 2:11; 20:6; 21:8.

i am not trying to justify myself. all i am saying is dat, [b]sin leads to eternal death [/b]therefore we must avoid sin like ebola. sin can seperate us from God forever if we live carelessly in this world.

Ukutsgp: faith and work goes together. u cant say u have faith and ur deeds does nt show it. our deeds must glorify God.

let men see ur good works and glorify your father who is in heaven.
matt 5:16.

Ukutsgp: the only exception to eternal security is sin.

to become righteous in christ entails repenting of ur sin, confessing them to God, then the blood of Jesus will wipe ur sins away. from then, u must forsake sin. obey d word if God and continue to do his will.

dying daily have everything to do with sin.

hisblud:

This is what i find interesting... now relate the above with your post


in the context of 2 thess 1:1-9, was it referring to those in Christ or those outside Christ....? What did those people "do" that caused them to have eternal death? thanks

Goshen360:

I agree that sin should not be tolerated in Christian life but ask yourself. Can sin be completely avoided in this earthly vessel? We have been asking for forgiveness of sin since we became born again and tomorrow, we will still ask for forgiveness of sin.....insulting the finished works of Christ. Ask yourself, what is the solution to sin so we don't ask for forgiveness no more.

Goshen360:

I agree that sin should not be tolerated in Christian life but ask yourself. Can sin be completely avoided in this earthly vessel? We have been asking for forgiveness of sin since we became born again and tomorrow, we will still ask for forgiveness of sin.....insulting the finished works of Christ. Ask yourself, what is the solution to sin so we don't ask for forgiveness no more.

paxonel:
eheh! you have commited another fallacy again, any Scripture you quote is fallacy ,all of them
Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
did Matthew 5:16 mentioned any verdict for any Christian who do not shine his light there?
did it mentioned any christian there? (people in.. the religion called Christianity )
do you realised that when Jesus Christ made that statement he has never died for the sins of mankind, he was about to go to Jerusalem to die, therefore there was no christianity at that time, nobody was a Christian (no salvation then )
and that christianity started after the death and resurrection of christ (with 120 people on the day of pentecost) act 1:15
how then is he telling christians to shine their light, that if they don't shine their light they will go to hell fire?
i understand you are a Catholic?
i thought catholics are more knowledgeable people?
i don't think you are a Catholic
if you are, you are a big disgrace to Catholic
protestants are far better than you

Ukutsgp: those who fail to obey his word. whether in or outside.

Ukutsgp: u cant rule out the place of confession of sin and forgiveness.

Ukutsgp: @Goshen360. i dnt know that u are one of the perpetrators of false gospel on this forum.
saying that our past sins, present and future sins are already taken care of is heresy. stop this falsehood and confess ur sin to God to obtain his forgiveness.
if u confess ur sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive u.

Ukutsgp: @Goshen360. i dnt know that u are one of the perpetrators of false gospel on this forum.

saying that our past sins, present and future sins are already taken care of is heresy. stop this falsehood and confess ur sin to God to obtain his forgiveness.

if u confess ur sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive u.

Scyllapatron: christianity and confusion

Goshen360:

When you get there, hopefully if you do, it will be clear to you and you will understand but I can help you out. Ask yourself, the sins YOU WILL COMMIT TOMORROW. ...are they past or present sins or are they future sins AND WILL THOSE SIN BE FORVIGEN TOMORROW OR NOT?

christemmbassey: Oga Goshen i dey hail o! How far? I don dey try ya line but man no fit connect u, hope all is well. Cheers!