nitrogen:


1. You know it, you just don't want to admit it. Its there for all to see.

2. Well, you can fvck off my radar.

I've already told you people that

a) I was not born in Nigeria

b) I'm not a Church goer

and yet you (and the other selective readers active in this thread) insist that this story has something to do with my day to day.

What do you people have against dealing with facts?

I've often argued that religion frazzles the mind to the point where logic and reason become anathema - this thread could be used as evidence of such a theory.

mmsen:


I've already told you people that

a) I was not born in Nigeria

b) I'm not a Church goer

and yet you (and the other selective readers active in this thread) insist that this story has something to do with my day to day.

What do you people have against dealing with facts?

I've often argued that religion frazzles the mind to the point where logic and reason become anathema - this thread could be used as evidence of such a theory.

Then, why the initial assertion? You said the shyte happens everywhere, we are saying that it is prevalent in Nigeria, and that it is because religious beliefs has brainwashed and taken morality off the majority. You said thousands lie in order to get their student loans and 'what have we' waived, but overhere, our so-called religious leaders would even dedicate a whole worship day to celebrate poli-thiefians that escape the net of EFCC after carting away billions of naira, meanwhile these leaders lead millions, so you can see the difference.....quite easy to deduce.

Stop dancing like a bush god around an iroko tree, and condemn what should be condemned or betterstill, be on the sidelines! since you claim that these things don't cross your part. Simples!

mmsen:


Religion and ignorance are the same thing.

All that has happened here is one ignorant individual has been compared with another - by way of an unverified story.

The irony in this thread is astounding...

uhmmmmm
You're mismatching context dude. I'm not going to go scientific on you here as it will defeat the different purposes that you and I pursue.
Your choice of the the words "unverified" and "irony" for such a simple and believable narrative tells the direction you seek to pursue.

...have a gracious week

esere826:


uhmmmmm
You're mismatching context dude. I'm not going to go scientific on you here as it will defeat the different purposes that you and I pursue.
Your choice of the the words "unverified" and "irony" for such a simple and believable narrative tells the direction you seek to pursue.

...have a gracious week

What has been mismatched?

What purpose do you proclaim to have? That I have?

You guys have latched onto a story and used it as validation for your silly stereotypes.

That is also the same backwards process by which religion is taught - a myth + an agenda.

What have I missed there...

^^enough already. you said you weren't born in Nigeria, you're not a church goer or probably have never been to, and you're not in Nigeria! so keep quiet then, because this subject clearly eludes you

mmsen:
I like how you people are obsessed with portraying Nigerians as bad and Westerners as inherently good

Please go to family court anywhere in North America and see if your lopsided and backwards prejudice holds up. Watch as people lie so as to .extract money from the ones that they claim to have loved.

There are millions of people who do all that they can to avoid paying all kinds of loans - sometimes because of sheer dishonesty but other times because the terms of the loan were unjust. Giving 10s of thousands of dollars to a child with no financial training is in itself immoral.

It seems Nigeria has three main religions - Islam, Christianity and Self-hatred.

So you are just discovering Nigerians with their rankling ignorance

mkpakanaodogwu:
One lady was giving testmoney yesterday how a man of 93yrs plus who refused to attend her wedding died after the pastor decleard deatht to witches and wizards and the congregation was in rapturous bliz,i just cringed.religion has destroyed the fabric of our society

while this may ofcourse b excessive (the man may have died of old age/natural causes), i know of instances where people died following such prayers. In christianity,even in the bible, the genuine is immediately followed by counterfiets and exaggeration.
Wen truth is being established confusion and disorder follows.
This isnt God-sponsored.

E.g in the book of acts, as the early church was waxing in unity, rancour from widows feeling neglected ensued.

As the gospel of grace was being preached anoda group strted spreadg salvation by works (circumcision).Apostle Paul had to address it.

spotit:
^^enough already. you said you weren't born in Nigeria, you're not a church goer or probably have never been to, and you're not in Nigeria! so keep quiet then, because this subject clearly eludes you

I have been around Nigerians in Nigeria and elsewhere.

I have also been around "Westerners" who call themselves Christians, whose day to day behaviour is as bad as anybody's.

I have just as much right to voice my opinion as you do.

You're request for my silence exposes your insecurity.


P.S.
If you want a really good example of the Western Christian take a look into the history of the KKK.

Or the Orangemen of Ireland.

Or the entire history of the Catholic Church.

Or the failure of the Anglican Church to stand up to the many injustices of the British Empire.

mmsen:


I have been around Nigerians in Nigeria and elsewhere.

I have also been around "Westerner's" who call themselves Christians, whose day to day behaviour is as bad as anybody's.

I have just as much right to voice my opinion as you do.

You're request for my silence exposes your insecurity.


P.S.
If you want a really good example of the Western Christian take a look into the history of the KKK.

Or the Orangemen of Ireland.

Or the entire history of the Catholic Church.

Or the failure of the Anglican Church to stand up to the many injustices of the British Empire.

ok, you win.

mmsen:


I have been around Nigerians in Nigeria and elsewhere.

I have also been around "Westerners" who call themselves Christians, whose day to day behaviour is as bad as anybody's.

I have just as much right to voice my opinion as you do.

You're request for my silence exposes your insecurity.


P.S.
If you want a really good example of the Western Christian take a look into the history of the KKK.

Or the Orangemen of Ireland.

Or the entire history of the Catholic Church.

Or the failure of the Anglican Church to stand up to the many injustices of the British Empire.

Bros, your argument is misplaced..

We all know about the acts of wholesale wickedness of westerners... Even with this knowledge Nigerians still fast,pray and give testimonies about miracles in the name of "visa" to these countries.

The write up simply points out what religious Nigerian terms as miracles. It did not in any way absolve the west of their diabolical past and present deeds..

If you want to bring in history, bring in Nigerian history. Let's go back thirty years and relate this write up with the mindset of Nigerian's of the 80s 90s and their take on civic identity.

in a nut shell this write up points out the day to day mindset of a religious Nigerian "greed, selfishness =miracles"

^^thanks...i gave up already.

GooseBaba:


Bros, your argument is misplaced..

We all know about the acts of wholesale wickedness of westerners... Even with this knowledge Nigerians still fast,pray and give testimonies about miracles in the name of "visa" to these countries.

The write up simply points out what religious Nigerian terms as miracles. It did not in any way absolve the west of their diabolical past and present deeds..

If you want to bring in history, bring in Nigerian history. Let's go back thirty years and relate this write up with the mindset of Nigerian's of the 80s 90s and their take on civic identity.

in a nut shell this write up points out the day to day mindset of a religious Nigerian "greed, selfishness =miracles"

If the intention of the author was to draw attention to the obsession with miracles in the Nigerian Christian community then he could have made his point better and clearer without introducing (another) fairy tale.

If the author has knowledge of the diabolical nature of Western Christians why compare them to their Nigerian Christians - they are both equally detestable.

Could he not have made his point without their involvement?

Why is the 'Westerner' so often the first point of reference for the Nigerian sheep is my question to all? Especially those of you who (routinely) display such a poor understanding of Western cultures.

^because it's their modern civilizational prototype we're aping. and the op's story simply means nigerians should give to caesar what's his and not to rob the wider society to give God or vice versa. he wasn't involving anything like you said; make a clear distinction between both and allow planning, accountability and meritocracy to establish a formidable foundation for the developing societies!

Aping the habits of others without an understanding (which is what I've noticed seems to be the norm for Nigerians) is a mistake. That is my primary criticism of most of the people in this thread, the other would be their attachment to Christianity. The two seem to be linked - once a person gets into the habit of doing because they are told to do and repeating a creed because they are instructed to it must be a very difficult habit to break.


P.S.
The Western nations are only just emerging from an economic downturn and yet you still wish to mimmick their way of doing things?

There are other countries out there doing things in a different manner and having more success (China has lifted the more people out of the poverty in the past 30 years than any other civilization ever) and yet there are people like you who wish to copy the old, destructive ways.

mmsen:


If the intention of the author were to draw attention to the obsession with miracles in the Nigerian Christian community then he could have made his point better and clearer without introducing (another) fairy tale.

If the author has knowledge of the diabolical nature of Western Christians why compare them to their Nigerian Christians - they are both equally detestable.

Could he not have made his point without their involvement?

Why is the 'Westerner' so often the first point of reference for the Nigerian sheep is my question to all? Especially those of you who (routinely) display such a poor understanding of Western cultures.

I totally understand where you're coming from. But the write up talked about "memory lane"....

Besides what do you expect from
Nigerians/Africans that believes he /she is a bonified gentile. A gentile must always have a master.

^sometimes we're saying the same thing, other times, you just make a jumbled mess of the thing. the copying a prototype doesn't mean there are no rooms for innovations, expansion, revisions, rejuvenation and so on!

southeast asia copied...nigeria was copying right up until the petrodollars and mad religion ate into her fabrics

modified: sorry, that was for mmsen ^ before goosebaba

Yes! True talk!

esere826:

Our Nigerian buddy noticed that his Canadian girlfriend had become really uncomfortable so he asked that they step out.

"Baby what's the matter?"

"Your Pastor. What he is saying about student loans ain't right. That is so wrong. When you take the loan, it is your responsibility to pay it back for the education of the next generation. You don't go about praying for miracles to cancel it. It ain't right."

Yeah. True story between a Nigerian buddy and his Canadian girlfriend in Vancouver in 1998. The difference between the psychology of this Canadian lady and the Nigerian psychology that is so tragically often on the display on social media is civics.

That Canadian girl has one head, two hands, and two legs like you. But her society did not destroy civics so she grew up understanding the necessity of civic and secular responsibilities to the said society. 99.9% of the miracle prayers and testimony hour rants in Nigerian churches are about ways to cheat the Nigerian state successfully and deprive the coming generation a future of possibilities.

I still don't get it. Please help me understand the topic.

Isn't there such thing call debt relief or total forgiveness of debt or debt cancellation in the West? If the pastor could pray for people in his congregation to benefit from such a program, what is wrong with that? How could this amount to cheating the system?

In my view, the white girlfriend was talking rubbish out of ignorance. But given that she is white, we all must abide by what she said.

TheCongo:



I still don't get it. Can someone please help me understand the topic.

Isn't there any debt relief program or total forgiveness of debt in the West? If the pastor could pray for people in his congregation to benefit from a debt relief program, what is wrong with that?

it doesn't quite work out that way..
students informedly take out educational loans or for other things and they have the capacity to pay back during active employment, but for personal choices, some might not like to payback the funds for training the next generation just because of the greed to live in larger houses, better cars, electronics and stuff. it's plain robbery to want to live debt-free above your means and be indifferent to the financial plight of the younger generation or the larger society. don't pull out dubious passages from the scriptures to defend your selfishness... that was meant to be a parable and literally for spiritual application

pastors would use that as a mind tool to keep the gullible believer latched on their ministries for the end game of having them pay excessive tithes and gifts for miracles and blessings

spotit:
it doesn't quite work out that way..
students informedly take out educational loans or for other things and they have the capacity to pay back during active employment, but for personal choices, some might not like to payback the funds for training the next generation just because of the greed to live in larger houses, better cars, electronics and stuff. it's plain robbery to want to live debt-free above your means and be indifferent about the financial plight of the younger generation or the larger society. don't pull out dubious passages from the scriptures to defend your selfishness... that was meant to be a parable and literally for spiritual application

I am sure the pastor wasn't preaching about skipping debt which is wrong.
He must have been thinking of debt relief or debt cancellation.

TheCongo:


I am sure the pastor wasn't preaching about skipping debt which is wrong.
He must have been thinking of debt relief or debt cancellation.

debt relief and cancellation is legal and on merit upon careful examination or discretion... That means you wouldn't be needing a miracle or magic to access it.

politicians stealing money and blessing their pastors to pray for them to keep the public away from them is purely not part of it.

pastors would use that as a mind tool to keep the gullible believer latched on their ministries for the end game of having them pay excessive tithes and gifts for miracles and blessings

spotit:

debt relief and cancellation is legal and on merit upon careful examination or discretion... That means you wouldn't be needing a miracle or magic to access it.

Sometime prayers are meant to win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man.

You indicate that debt cancellation is legal and on merit upon discretion. Just like anything else, God's favor can play on behalf of an applicant.
Do you think that the US visa is granted just based on the merit of the applicant? Some people would tell you that it was by the grace of God that they were given the US visa. The same thing hold true with the debt relief application.

TheCongo:


Sometime prayers are meant to win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man.

You indicate that debt cancellation is legal and on merit upon discretion. Just like anything else, God's favor can play on behalf of an applicant.
Do you think that the US visa is granted just based on the merit of the applicant? Some people would tell you that it was by the grace of God that they were given the US visa. The same thing hold true with the debt relief application.

Tbh, I see your point, but the people in question have a knack for overdoing things. God that'll answer your prayers is also against incredible lawlessness and manipulation..

If you say it isn't so, then observe and tell us what are the enviable fruits of this dubious religiosity in Nigeria..

spotit:
Tbh, I see your point, but the people in question have a knack for overdoing things. God that'll answer your prayers is also against incredible lawlessness and manipulation..

If you say it isn't so, then observe and tell us what are the enviable fruits of this dubious religiosity in Nigeria..

I know there is a lot of manipulation in churches nowadays and I agree with you about that.
However, the purpose of my post was to show that the white girlfriend was talking rubbish out of ignorance.

TheCongo:


I know there is a lot of manipulation in churches nowadays and I agree with you about that.
However, the purpose of my post was to show that the white girlfriend was talking rubbish out of ignorance.

no, she wasn't talking any ignorance because it's a social principle the less fortunate in her society have been blessed from. and a foreigner who respects no laws would come turn it on its heads using "God said..."

spotit:
no, she wasn't talking any ignorance because it's a social principle the less fortunate in her society has been blessed from. and a foreigner who respects no laws would come turn it on its heads using "God said..."

And who is not obeying the law here? Is it the pastor who is wishing that people from his congregation benefit from debt relief programs? The pastor never told the congregation to skip any student loan payment. I notice that the person who didn't agree with the pastor is white. And white folks are always used as a point of reference even when they are talking rubbish. Thus, the existence of this subject.
Have a nice day.

TheCongo:


And who is not obeying the law here? Is it the pastor who is wishing that people from his congregation benefit from debt relief programs? The pastor never told the congregation to skip any student loan payment. I notice that the person who didn't agree with the pastor is white. And white folks are always used as a point of reference even when they are talking rubbish. Thus, the existence of this subject.
Have a nice day.

This is it...Standing ovation...as the thread curtain closes

Busybody2:


This is it...Standing ovation...as the thread curtain closes

Merci Busybody. Mais, tu as disparu ma belle

TheCongo:


Merci Busybody. Mais, tu as disparu ma belle

I understood the "thanks" but that's it...Google translation here I come

TheCongo:


And who is not obeying the law here? Is it the pastor who is [size=40pt]wishing[/size] that people from his congregation benefit from debt relief programs? The pastor never told the congregation to skip any student loan payment. I notice that the person who didn't agree with the pastor is white. And white folks are always used as a point of reference even when they are talking rubbish. Thus, the existence of this subject.
Have a nice day.

Pastor is selling gullible and dishonest people placebos. A working civilisation(society) is not built on wishing and cheating a mathematical system. A shepherd tells his sheep what they want to hear(or drives them to the nearest available meadows), in the end it's his motives that are served, which are his needs for fur, hides, meat, milk and bone! Not the sheep's lasting liberty.

Remove colour from it, the "ignorant" person is being patriotic, accountable and outspoken enough to challenge brazen deceits. it's her country and her native pastors wouldn't openly preach that..

wow

the narrative that was intended to be passed across has been muddled
what I think Pius tried to show was that whereas it is the bold norm for the Nigerian Xtian structure to kill the Nigerian goose for its golden eggs, the western xtian structure is not configured that way.


I'll do a little bit of muddling myself
for those looking for favour not to pay their debts to society and individuals
td jakes suggestion might be helpful
its something like this:


instead of praying that the furniture price falls so you can afford it
why not pray that you have more than enough money to afford it

..cheers

TheCongo:


And who is not obeying the law here? Is it the pastor who is wishing that people from his congregation benefit from debt relief programs? The pastor never told the congregation to skip any student loan payment. I notice that the person who didn't agree with the pastor is white. And white folks are always used as a point of reference even when they are talking rubbish. Thus, the existence of this subject.
Have a nice day.

Rubbish..!! Stop making excuses for bad things.... Clearly, we know that is not what the pastor was talking about. Those filing for students debt relief do not need miracles. They simply need to be qualified for the program. Those that won visa lottery. Did they not file and pay fees for the program..? Did American embassy just picked them up from the street.. Abeg stop trying to validate deceit...

Put your emotions and white man hatred aside and ask yourself... If it were an African that made the comment would it make any difference from the truth..?

When a pastor says to his congregation that they would buy a house, or a luxury vehicle before the year ends.

A: does he have any means to increase their income

B: is he privy to his congregations employers decision on promotion..

C: does he have the winning lottery number for them

D: or is he just full of shiiit...