asalimpo:

atheism fries ur brain. So that u actively resist d truth even though it's glaring.
Even History recognises tht Jesus lived on earth. The roman style of execution-crucifixion was real.

The Gospels were not written with an intention to serve as a record or history book. The purpose is a religious experience of the Christian community. It is largely allegorical and therefore not too valuable as a historical reference.

So far the theist comments' i've reviewed only confirms the topic...

davien:
So far the theists comments i've reviewed only confirms the topic...

Amazing how online comments jump out and shout in your ear while you are using your telescope or maybe they jump up and down in front of it.

LordReed:


Amazing how online comments jump out and shout in your ear while you are using your telescope or maybe they jump up and down in front of it.

lol....nice pun
but do you know what isn't funny....when you deeply care about unlocking the secrets of the stars by contributing efforts to SETI or NASA and then a creationist comes along and starts lobbying for peer-reviewed accepted thesis and models to be dismissed because it does not relate to bronze age mythology....

davien:
lol....nice pun
but do you know what isn't funny....when you deeply care about unlocking the secrets of the stars by contributing efforts to SETI or NASA and then a creationist comes along and starts lobbying for peer-reviewed accepted thesis and models to be dismissed because it does not relate to bronze age mythology....

If the right to dissent any position is offensive to you then are you not the one living in a bronze age? Besides lobbying against what you don't want is an acceptable tactic that even skeptics use so I still fail to see how your or my appreciation for the universe has been killed by theism.

I have always been curious about the "how". I don't doubt who(s).

LordReed:


If the right to dissent any position is offensive to you then are you not the one living in a bronze age? Besides lobbying against what you don't want is an acceptable tactic that even skeptics use so I still fail to see how your or my appreciation for the universe has been killed by theism.

lobbying against scientific principles hinders learning.....creationists are fond of this....to place the disciplines they dislike as being "unacceptable" whereas in reality any discipline you are against should be proven false using the scientific method....not through political lobbying....that's how "intelligent design" pseudoscience got included in some schools

davien:
lobbying against scientific principles hinders learning.....creationists are fond of this....to place the disciplines they dislike as being "unacceptable" whereas in reality any discipline you are against should be proven false using the scientific method....not through political lobbying....that's how "intelligent design" pseudoscience got included in some schools

Stem cell research, cloning, etc were banned because of ethical concerns and not because of theism so go figure. In all the schools I went to creationism was not taught in class so if in your locality creationism is being taught maybe you should be addressing that matter not making a sweeping statement of no effect.

LordReed:


Stem cell research, cloning, etc were banned because of ethical concerns and not because of theism so go figure. In all the schools I went to creationism was not taught in class so if in your locality creationism is being taught maybe you should be addressing that matter not making a sweeping statement of no effect.

i am not referring to stem cell research nor any field that borders on ethical concerns but rather the growing group of creationists that spew cognitive dissonance to unsuspecting young inquisitive minds....
The concern is on the growing number of youths who listen to and have been indoctrinated into this form of religious extremism and then when they become in position of authority in science begin to use this to instill more pseudoscience to the masses....imagine a young lad once told me light speed can change by quantum tunneling...upon more discussions i found out he endorses answersingenesis and more and more these people are becoming common....being led by multi-millionaire loonies

davien:
lol....nice pun
but do you know what isn't funny....when you deeply care about unlocking the secrets of the stars by contributing efforts to SETI or NASA and then a creationist comes along and starts lobbying for peer-reviewed accepted thesis and models to be dismissed because it does not relate to bronze age mythology....

a "myth" tht billions find relevant today. A "myth" tht is changing lives and circumstances in present time. So much for a "myth".
Foolishness,is wasting resources only to find out the waste was avoidable cuz sombody else word on the was ignored.

Columbus set sail around the world, only to discover tht the bible was righr afterall. The earth is round not flat as popular believed then.

SETI project has been running for years , wasting taxpayers money in the end they'll either get decieved or find out the truth the hard way.

Ufo's are phenomenan the scientifc world has been suched into but it has been observed tht the alien creatures in d ufo are antagonostic to d name of Jesus!

While the bible said the earth was circular, did it interfere with the quest of explorers to investigate this?
How exactly, does free will to explore,investigate a matter get
shackled by religion?
Atheists on d other hand are getting aggressively militant and intolerant pushg their agenda like islamist on those who dont believe as the do.

asalimpo:


a "myth" tht billions find relevant today. A "myth" tht is changing lives and circumstances in present time. So much for a "myth".
Foolishness,is wasting resources only to find out the waste was avoidable cuz sombody else word on the was ignored.

Columbus set sail around the world, only to discover tht the bible was righr afterall. The earth is round not flat as popular believed then.

SETI project has been running for years , wasting taxpayers money in the end they'll either get decieved or find out the truth the hard way.

Ufo's are phenomenan the scientifc world has been suched into but it has been observed tht the alien creatures in d ufo are antagonostic to d name of Jesus!

While the bible said the earth was circular, did it interfere with the quest of explorers to investigate this?
How exactly, does free will to explore,investigate a matter get
shackled by religion?
Atheists on d other hand are getting aggressively militant and intolerant pushg their agenda like islamist on those who dont believe as the do.

pass me the ganja make man eye high

davien:
i am not referring to stem cell research nor any field that borders on ethical concerns but rather the growing group of creationists that spew cognitive dissonance to unsuspecting young inquisitive minds....
The concern is on the growing number of youths who listen to and have been indoctrinated into this form of religious extremism and then when they become in position of authority in science begin to use this to instill more pseudoscience to the masses....imagine a young lad once told me light speed can change by quantum tunneling...upon more discussions i found out he endorses answersingenesis and more and more these people are becoming common....being led by multi-millionaire loonies

Just showing that lobbying can US s to achieve anybody's aim so maybe you should go and lobby to have creationism removed from schools. What someone endorses is only a concern when it threatens life and property, leave others to their beliefs.

While you want to accuse d bible/religion about stiffling creativity - there's no scriptural basis for this empty baseless accusation.

A couple of scripture command the christian to work hard at what he does.
Avoid laziness and slothfulness.
To do what he does with all his might.
Most of the scientists that contributed to the basic foundation and understanding of science were religious/christians.
E.g Lord kelvin
if religion stiffled creativity you wouldnt hav folks like those in science.
Solomon in the bible was also a botanist.

asalimpo:


a "myth" tht billions find relevant today. A "myth" tht is changing lives and circumstances in present time. So much for a "myth".
Foolishness,is wasting resources only to find out the waste was avoidable cuz sombody else word on the was ignored.

myths whether useful or not affect people...i hardly see the point in your argument....the myth of phlogiston affected millions too..

Columbus set sail around the world, only to discover tht the bible was righr afterall. The earth is round not flat as popular believed then.

The bible made no such statement………The bible infact claims the earth has "corners" a spherical body doesn't have corners
"
Isaiah 11:12 "And he shall set up an ensign for the
nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and
gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four
corners of the earth."

SETI project has been running for years , wasting taxpayers money in the end they'll either get decieved or find out the truth the hard way.

This is the fourth time you've proven the topic....so it is logical to you that out of 100's of billions of stars...galaxies...planets.....moons.... you are the only thing there is?

Ufo's are phenomenan the scientifc world has been suched into but it has been observed tht the alien creatures in d ufo are antagonostic to d name of Jesus!

"ufo's" are unidentified flying objects ...it is mostly used synonymously with alien life but they are two different things.... microbial alien life is what seems most feasible to come across

While the bible said the earth was circular, did it interfere with the quest of explorers to investigate this?
How exactly, does free will to explore,investigate a matter get
shackled by religion?

The bible said no such thing as the earth being circular....it infact interfered with capernicus when he discovered that the earth wasn't the "centre of creation" a.k.a geocentrism....when he proposed that the earth just revolved around the sun like any other planet he was executed by the church...

Atheists on d other hand are getting aggressively militant and intolerant pushg their agenda like islamist on those who dont believe as the do.

really? am i the one going about in a bus with speakers disturbing the community?....am i the one telling children they'll burn in hell unless they accept an idea?....am i the one that keeps lying to defend a belief?....am i the one that advocates that smashing the heads of babies on rocks is just because of a mythology?

asaimpo...do you know about the dark ages?....when the belief in "god" restricted inquiry at all ventures?

davien:
asaimpo...do you know about the dark ages?....when the belief in "god" restricted inquiry at all ventures?

I doubt it very much... In a country that manages to produce university graduates who never read a single hour of history this is what you get. And then the churches do their own part by spreading any type of lies and pseudoscience that is convenient to them. Nobody will question it because nobody has the knowledge and skills needed to evaluate it critically. This whole situation resembles the "dark ages" in so many aspects. Religiosity and its nasty consequences in naija today are pretty much identical with that in 15th century europe. It won't end well.

Liekiller:


I doubt it very much... In a country that manages to produce university graduates who never read a single hour of history this is what you get. And then the churches do their own part by spreading any type of lies and pseudoscience that is convenient to them. Nobody will question it because nobody has the knowledge and skills needed to evaluate it critically. This whole situation resembles the "dark ages" in so many aspects. Religiosity and its nasty consequences in naija today are pretty much identical with that in 15th century europe. It won't end well.

its even the growing number of creationist lecturers in nigerian universities that worries me.....the spread of willful ignorance and peudoscience has never been higher...

davien:
its even the growing number of creationist lecturers in nigerian universities that worries me.....the spread of willful ignorance and peudoscience has never been higher...

No need to even mention that. It will probably be extremely hard to find a non-creationist "biology teacher". In fact it seems hard to find any in-depth knowledge anywhere. Let's be honest: education in naija is a bad joke. There is no education. So most of us know how to read and write (more or less). Our system does not teach critical thinking and reasoning though. It teaches repeating without understanding, not weighing different facts against each other. It teaches obedience rather than discurse. It teaches all that is needed to become a blind follower of whatever toxic religion. It does not teach even the basics of biology, history, geography etc. Graduates in "microbiology" have not the slightest clue about evolution, for example. Elsewhere, they would be addressed as lab assistants if they get lucky, but certainly not biologists. The world's entire knowledge is one click away nowadays. Is that used at least? NO.

@davien
Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth.

the bible also shows tht the earth hangs in space and the universe is expansive before there was even a body of knowledge called science. Sorry, but ure kickg on d wrong brick.
So much for a "book of myth"

asalimpo:
@davien
Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth.

the bible also shows tht the earth hangs in space and the universe is expansive before there was even a body of knowledge called science. Sorry, but ure kickg on d wrong brick.
So much for a "book of myth"

I rolled off my chair after reading your post.....can you tell me the difference between a circle and a geoid?...anyone with a basic grasp of geometry knows
what a circle is. It's a flat, two dimensional object....is the earth a flat two dimensional object?
And science began with the knowledge of controlled fire basically way older than 2000 years ....so are you insinuating that biblical tales predates the knowledge of fire? you are the one kicking the wrong brick here...
And it is a shame you don't know what a myth is.....because the Pleiades exists doesn't mean the myth of the seven sisters that turned into it is true....is that understood?



HERE IS A NICE PIECE OF ADVICE.....GET OFF OF JESUS' D.ICK AND READ A BOOK...

That verse i quoted from says He hangs the earth on nothing.
Still falling from your chair?

because you expected to find geodesc and 3.14(to 4hundred places) for pi in d a book that is supposed to b comprehensible to all classes of people.
I shake my head at the daftness u guyz potray.
How does the word,"circle of the earth" fail to convey,concretely,the idea that the earth is circular,in as uncomplicated a way as possible?

And how does the fact that it was reported in the bible millenia before science proved it not add to the bibles credibility as a divinely inspired book?

You class the bible with other myths, but which of those mythical tales provided informations pre empting science? Or even scientifcally accurate information at all?

Incase you're still adamant and falling from your chair,
the formula for determing the area of a sphere , uses a concept similar to additively summing the area of stacked circles of diminishg diameters. If you sat with one between your legs,the line traced from the points where your feet touched the sphere to each other would form a circle (or circular object). Infact anyhow you position the sphere btw your feet, you'll get this. The equator is circular.

Two, it would b illogical for the bible to say,the bible says the earth is a circle wen apparently it is not two dimensional.

asalimpo:
Incase you're still adamant and falling from your chair,
the formula for determing the area of a sphere , uses a concept similar to additively summing the area of stacked circles of diminishg diameters. If you sat with one between your legs,the line traced from the points where your feet touched the sphere to each other would form a circle (or circular object). Infact anyhow you position the sphere btw your feet, you'll get this. The equator is circular.

Two, it would b illogical for the bible to say,the bible says the earth is a circle wen apparently it is not two dimensional.

How is any of this relevant? Ancient Greek scientists were into far more elaborate astronomical observations centuries BC. More interestingly yet, there is plenty of archaeological evidence that people were studying the skies and related phenomena as early as 35'000 years ago. Google palaeoastronomy.

Liekiller:


How is any of this relevant? Ancient Greek scientists were into far more elaborate astronomical observations centuries BC. More interestingly yet, there is plenty of archaeological evidence that people were studying the skies and related phenomena as early as 35'000 years ago. Google palaeoastronomy.

and by their studies they conjectured a spherical earth?
Then how come earlier scientists risked their lives when they propounded a round earth if human knowledge had already discovered that?

Liekiller:

there is plenty of archaeological evidence that people were ...

Archeological you say? Relics and potsherds and artifacts , used to conjecture about the past. Often the conclusions from these findgs are hotly debated in the scientifc community. Yet you accept them wholeheartedly, but dismiss the bible as outdated while accepting even propositions from conjectures on even older artifcts!

Very objective thinkg-keep it up(i mean,the biase).

asalimpo:


and by their studies they conjectured a spherical earth?
Then how come earlier scientists risked their lives when they propounded a round earth if human knowledge had already discovered that?

They only risked their lives once church was around to burn anyone who was looking for the truth. It was indeed discovered (and debated) much earlier that planet earth is spherical (http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4419-8116-5_4#page-1). The foundations of science were laid centuries BC (see here http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/chapter3-greeks-fin.pdf). As you can see, this idiotic debate has been going on for millennia. It just goes to show that the level of knowledge portrayed in the bible was outdated even at the time of its writing.

asalimpo:


Archeological you say? Relics and potsherds and artifacts , used to conjecture about the past. Often the conclusions from these findgs are hotly debated in the scientifc community. Yet you accept them wholeheartedly, but dismiss the bible as outdated while accepting even propositions from conjectures on even older artifcts!

Very objective thinkg-keep it up(i mean,the biase).

you clearly know nothing about archaeology, and you haven't googled palaeoastronomy either. Do so or shut up.

Liekiller:

you clearly know nothing about archaeology, and you haven't googled palaeoastronomy either. Do so or shut up.

appeal to jargon. The ultimate cop out. By the same vein, you know nothing about theology, nor the basis and principles of Christianity yet you want to judge.

Did early man detect that the earth is round bf colombus,copernicus,and galileo?
Answer the question.
Wat is archeology? Other than conjectures on the past based on excavated tainted artifacts.
Conjectures often proved wrong. With many often misled assuptions that need to b corrected as new evidence is gathered. You accept info on 35k year old conjectured data yet call information in d bible outdated!
The mindset of a lopsided thinker.

Cure your biase bf replyg. As usual, objectvty is not ur guidg principle.

asalimpo:


appeal to jargon. The ultimate cop out. By the same vein, you know nothing about theology, nor the basis and principles of Christianity yet you want to judge.

Did early man detect that the earth is round bf colombus,copernicus,and galileo?
Answer the question.
Wat is archeology? Other than conjectures on the past based on excavated tainted artifacts.
Conjectures often proved wrong. With many often misled assuptions that need to b corrected as new evidence is gathered. You accept info on 35k year old conjectured data yet call information in d bible outdated!
The mindset of a lopsided thinker.

Cure your biase bf replyg. As usual, objectvty is not ur guidg principle.

The answer to your questionis YES, see here for details: http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2011/09/21/who-discovered-the-earth-is-ro/
Well that's the difference between science and religion. Science seeks for the truth and collects evidence. Every new bit of information makes the picture more complete. Knowledge increases over time and is modified and corrected based on new evidence. The same is true for archaeology. It's the only source of information we have for human history before written records became available (which are often flawed, biased, incomplete and subjective - and of course strongly influenced by the society at the time they were written in. Those influences should obviously be taken into consideration when analysing written records). Archaeology has it's own specialised methods just like every other science. It's not about fixing old pots and putting them in a museum. It's about reconstructing the material culture, chronology and way of life of ancient human populations. It doesn't claim to be in possession of any absolute truth but works on adding pieces to the puzzle. Religion on the other hand claims to be in possession of the absolute truth about everything based on no evidence. Instead, all evidence that does not fit into the preconceived idea is suppressed, rejected or manipulated so it fits. How many people have been killed by the church over the centuries because they made discoveries the church didn't like? How many discoveries did the church suppress over the centuries until they finally had to grudgingly admit they had been wrong? Is this a truthful approach in your opinion? The bible reflects the knowledge and culture of the PEOPLE at that time and place. It's a product of PEOPLE. However, people's knowledge has increased and changed since then. Furthermore every religion is "in possession" of a different "absolute truth. Doesn't that make you think? What makes yours more valid than the thousands of other beliefs that have existed in human history, and still exist?

Liekiller:


They only risked their lives once church was around to burn anyone who was looking for the truth. It was indeed discovered (and debated) much earlier that planet earth is spherical (http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4419-8116-5_4#page-1). The foundations of science were laid centuries BC (see here http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/chapter3-greeks-fin.pdf). As you can see, this idiotic debate has been going on for millennia. It just goes to show that the level of knowledge portrayed in the bible was outdated even at the time of its writing.

it was already known, yet it came as a suprise to the brightests minds of the time?
You wudnt think the people who conjectured tht wudve hav performed their own emperical experiments to prove it?
Without emperical experimentation there is no way ancient man cud conjecture this.
- such knowledge cudnt hav come from his physcal senses given the time period in question.


Did men bf corpernicus also state tht the earh hung on nothing?

Liekiller:


They only risked their lives once church was around to burn anyone who was looking for the truth. It was indeed discovered (and debated) much earlier that planet earth is spherical (http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-1-4419-8116-5_4#page-1). The foundations of science were laid centuries BC (see here http://www.fredonia.edu/department/geosciences/chapter3-greeks-fin.pdf). As you can see, this idiotic debate has been going on for millennia. It just goes to show that the level of knowledge portrayed in the bible was outdated even at the time of its writing.

it was already known, yet it came as a suprise to the brightests minds of the time?
You wudnt think the people who conjectured tht wudve hav performed their own emperical experiments to prove it?
Without emperical experimentation there is no way ancient man cud conjecture this.
- such knowledge cudnt hav come from his physcal senses given the time period in question.


Did men bf corpernicus also state tht the earh hung on nothing?

The foundations of science were laid after the dark ages.
The revolt of martin luther and other reformers led to the empowerment of the common man and his liberation from the religious cult of the roman catholic church, which imprisoned men in a system of lies and vain tradition. E.g. Laymen were not allowed to read the bible- still discouraged in catholicsm.
The widespread availability of bibles spurred by the invention of d printg press, brought an end to d dark ages. And began an age where science would flourish - the so called age of enlightenment.
As an exercise, beginning from the invention of printg, list the dates of every major scientifc invention, you'll see tht they cluster around a relatively short time period.

The bible verse about the shape of d earth points to no other explanation than extra-human inspiration. God-inspired.

asalimpo:


it was already known, yet it came as a suprise to the brightests minds of the time?
You wudnt think the people who conjectured tht wudve hav performed their own emperical experiments to prove it?
Without emperical experimentation there is no way ancient man cud conjecture this.
- such knowledge cudnt hav come from his physcal senses given the time period in question.


Did men bf corpernicus also state tht the earh hung on nothing?

The foundations of science were laid after the dark ages.
The revolt of martin luther and other reformers led to the empowerment of the common man and his liberation from the religious cult of the roman catholic church, which imprisoned men in a system of lies and vain tradition. E.g. Laymen were not allowed to read the bible- still discouraged in catholicsm.
The widespread availability of bibles spurred by the invention of d printg press, brought an end to d dark ages. And began an age where science would flourish - the so called age of enlightenment.
As an exercise, beginning from the invention of printg, list the dates of every major scientifc invention, you'll see tht they cluster around a relatively short time period.

The bible verse about the shape of d earth points to no other explanation than extra-human inspiration. God-inspired.

you are making up your own version of history here. I'm not even going to start pointing out all the mistakes. That's what I'm talking about when I say that religious zealots manipulate facts to make them "fit" into their preconceived ideas.