paulGrundy:


Jwfacts.com is not biased though its very critical. I have seen the other side , and believe you me, its filled with lies misquotes, exaggerations, misleading information and misrepresentations.

paulGrundy:


But even at that it raises a very important issue, watchtower interpretations are inconsistent.

malakh7:

There are 12 classical world religions and over 34,000 Christian sects. Most of these say that salvation requires following their particular God. The extremist sects say that belonging to their particular sect is a requirement for salvation. If you are a Witness, imagine for a second that the Watchtower Society is not the true religion. Do you think it fair that God is going to destroy you for being part of the wrong religion? As the Watchtower discourages active examination of other beliefs, would it be fair that you will shortly die for not finding the correct one?

Leobreezy:
If you went to a store to buy a TV with the knowledge of what the fake and the real one looks like, would you, having found the original TV, still search for and buy the fake one? The Bible gives clear indication that those who love Jehovah obey his commandments and yet they are not burdensome 1 John 5:3. Some of such commandments include
1. Abstaining from blood Acts 15:20
2. Expelling persons who commit gross sin from the church 1 Corinthians 5:9-13
3. Not worshipping idols or any carved image Exodus 20:4&5
4. Declaring the Goodnews to others Matthew 24:14
Having idenfied those who live up to those commandments highlighted above, should you still mingle with those who disregard them? 2 Corinthians 6:4.
There is a true religion, it's left for you to earnestly and honestly examine the fruits (conduct) of each of the religions, determine if they are in line with the bible, and prayerfully make your choice. Please read Matthew 7:15-23

Ovie56:
im not sure of this series survival

SuperMartins:
Honestly..the Arrow ain't like d way it used to be..

paulGrundy:


Aha beautiful! now we are getting somewhere.

malakh7:


[b]oh pleease! ..there is no original TV as everyone thinks their TV is original.
And don't quote scriptures for me, one would have to agree with the accuracy of an instrument before it can be used.

Is the Witness that grows up in America listening to immoral 'pop' music more righteous than the Baptist missionary in Indonesia? Should the Nepalese monk, isolated from the world and Bible be destroyed for living the life of abstinence that he truly believed and was indoctrinated to understand was the way to achieve oneness with God?

When a religion teaches absolute truth, it makes sense anyone not believing this truth is worshipping falsehood. Anyone not worshipping Jehovah is worshipping Satan, and so deserves destruction. If truth is easy to understand and God attracts his sheep, there is no excuse not to follow it. The flaw in this reasoning is that no Organization teaches absolute truth. Jehovah's Witnesses certainly do not teach it. In its short 130 year history the Watchtower Society has changed its teachings so substantially that they have no right to claim a unique ability to understand truth. It is illogical to state God gave Russell the many wrong teachings that the Watchtower later had to reject.


Jwfacts.com
[/b]

malakh7:


oh pleease! ..there is no original TV as everyone thinks their TV is original.
And don't quote scriptures for me, one would have to agree with the accuracy of an instrument before it can be used.




Jwfacts.com

Leobreezy:
What makes NEPA an inconsistent power supply body? Isn't it the fact that they restore and take electricity supply haphazardly? Suppose electricity supply gradually became steady, would you still call them inconsistent? Gradually over the years, adjustments to certain beliefs have been made and they have formed the basis of our faith down till this day. Would you for the reason of the adjustments published years ago in the Watchtower still call it inconsistent?

Until 1929, the “superior authorities” or “higher powers” were correctly said by the Watchtower to be the earthly rulers to whom Christians paid taxes and whose laws they were obligated to follow.

“They taught the Church to obey the laws, and to respect those in authority because of their office, even if they were not personally worthy of esteem; to pay their appointed taxes, and, except where they conflicted with God’s laws (Acts 4:19; 5:29), to offer no resistance to any established law. (Rom. 13:1-7; Matt. 22:21)” Studies In the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages p.266

“The Bible directs the followers of Jesus to be subject to the powers that be. (Romans 13:1-7; 1 Peter 2:13-17) But while seeking to be thus law-abiding in every respect, Christians are to recognize that there is still a higher law and a still higher Ruler, and are to be subject to the worldly powers only in the absence of a contrary admonition from the Higher Power - from God.” Watch Tower 1916 Jan 15

With one of Rutherford’s revelations this changed in 1929.

“The instruction of the thirteenth chapter of Romans has long been misapplied. The improper application has really been the basis for the false doctrine of the “divine right of kings” or rulers to rule and oppress the people. The apostle is, in substance, telling the members of the church that they should always be obedient to God, and that the motive for such obedience must be love for God and a delight in doing’ his will.” Watchtower 1929 Jun 1 p.163

“Both of these scriptures have reference to the government, order and discipline in the organization of the Lord. Applying these words to earthly governments has been misleading and wrongful so far as Christians are concerned.” Watchtower 1929 Jun 15 p.183

From 1929 to 1962 the “superior authorities” became “the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ”. Rutherford used the 1929 position on higher authorities to justify:

Consuming alcohol during the United States prohibition (“God never authorized a prohibition or any other sumptuary law to control the consciences or actions of others.” w29 p.121)

Prevention of Bible Students doing civilian military service (“For this reason the Bible Students devoted to the Lord refuse to take military service, because they are true followers of Christ and must obey God’s law.” w29 p.117)

Banning flag salutes.
By saying that the higher authorities referred to Jehovah rather than earthly rulers, it made breaking the law easy to introduce.

In 1962, the Society returned to the original position of Russell. A statement in Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God’s Kingdom Rules! page 548 indicated there was a change in understanding;

“In spite of the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, God permitted the political authorities of this world to continue as the ‘higher powers’ or the ‘powers that be,’ which are ‘ordained of God’.”
This was explained in detail through the November 1, November 15 and December 1 editions of the Watchtower in 1962

Be honest with yourself, you're holding a biased opinion.

Leobreezy:

That makes it obvious that you were at some point a witness or you're just bluffing. To have seen the other side, you must have been on the other side. You claimed we disfellowship sisters who were molested regardless of whatever happened, something you obviously derived from jwfacts.com

I showed from the publication you quoted, the bible, as well as another watchtower that resistance to molestation is key in considering such a situation

You also claimed we BELEIVE organ transplants is synonymous with cannibalism

I explained that it was only COMPARED with and that does not in anyway form an authority on our views concerning organ transplant
You further asserted that we've predicted the end of the world 20 times, I disputed that and acknowledged that we only made such claim twice, in 1914 & 1975
Tell me, who's making the exaggerations and misinterpretations?

paulGrundy:
molestation can be fornication

Leobreezy:

1914 and 1975 were the only years thought of to mark the end of this system of things. Further adjustments have been made to our understanding of Matthew 24. We neither deny nor hide the mistakes made, rather we use that to increase our understanding of the scriptures.


I already explained that. Matthew 24:6




We don't decide who makes up the 144,000, Jehovah does Romans 8:16&17. If however the members of the 144,000 are primarily composed of faithful Witnesses whom Jehovah's spirit has borne witness with, you're left to your own conclusions.




You asserted that we BELIEVE organ transplants are synonymous with cannibalism. I showed you that the Watchtower you drew your hasty conclusion from only COMPARED it to cannibalism and does not in anyway show a general belief of our views concerning organ transplant

Leobreezy:
To any who may have read this post and desires to learn more about Jehovah's Witnesses, please visit our website jw.org . We also offer a free home Bible study to any who desires so, you can request for such on our website or from a Jehovah's Witness when they call on you. Have a blissful week

macayub:
You don't need to respond to all arguments. Any honest hearted person no where to find the truth. My question is which Christian or religious organization is better by collective attitudes? Which organization strive to put God first by determined to abide by Bible standard and teaching?

RikoduoSennin:


Please stop quoting, replying, commenting on any thread opened by "Paulgrundy". I just recently discovered he was dis-fellowshiped for running an apostate website "jwfacts.com".

I believe you know the scriptural reasons the watchtower reasons involved in associating with such an individual. Nothing good can come out of such discussions.

paulGrundy: For the record am not a jw was not a jw can never be a jw

paulGrundy: First of all [size=19pt]i am not paul Grundy, the real paul grundy owns a site called jwfacts.com[/size]...

Leobreezy:

2. Expelling persons who commit gross sin from the church 1 Corinthians 5:9-13

Shegricho:


I just find it funny when people try to play God, expel people from the church?
You make me laugh brother, what is your definition of "gross sin".
I remember the Bible says, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", i don't remember that verse pointing to any sin as "gross" or "mild".
In my own view, i just think these witnesses are full of Bible analysts.
Saying someone should be expelled contradicts what the Bible says about correcting each other with love.
Again, that contradicts the parable by our Lord Jesus Christ concerning the lost sheep & coin.
You people are the main reason why people like me thank God that God is not man.

dolphinheart:
@ paulgrundy

Seems you have deliberately closed ur eyes to Seeing anything good about jehovahs witnesses.

From ur point of view, do they do anything good ?
Is there any practise they follow that is worthy of emulation ?
If there is can you mention some.

paulGrundy:


1. They are very zealous about their preaching work.

2. An average JW have a deep knowledge of biblical quotes and study often (though with a closed mind).

3. JW's have this strong brotherhood love for each other/ watch out for each other, just like the catholic church.

dolphinheart:


What about their stand against warfare, not carrying weapons. Is it good or bad?

paulGrundy:


Good. Why do you ask?

dolphinheart:


Cus you did not mention it.

Going further, do you support there stance on not allowing unrepentant sinners in their midst the moment such sinner is revealed. Is it good or bad?

paulGrundy:


Their stance is unscriptural. Scriptures talks about expeling only unrepentant fornicators, greedy, abusive, worshiper of idols, drunkard and fraudulent men. The list never included stuffs like blood transfusion, military service and working for another religion/political party.

dolphinheart:


Let me rephrase it for you, what do you think about their stance in expelling those who do the things that the scripture talks about as expressed by you .eg expelling fornicators, drunkards, abusive, fraudulent men. Is there stand on such people good or bad .

paulGrundy:


Its good. I hope this is not another medium to start your false accusations against me again?

dolphinheart:


Are you a Christian?
If yes , pls how do you or ur church handle this directive from the scripture

1 cor 5:9-13

When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols.
You would have to leave this
world to avoid people like that.
11 I meant that you are not to
associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is
abusive, or is a drunkard, or
cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. 12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge
those inside the church who
are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

Shegricho:



One thing i know about arguing with your type is that you will never and have never tried to view things from the other person's perspective, anyways sha. We shall meet on judgment day.