and the men keep saying women want ready made men! They forget that marriage is a contract and divine one at that and that every contract must have an item of exchange between the contracting parties. A lady who is yet to see 'good stuff' is not likely to partake in such contract. The caliber of men we have today basically sit in their homes and cry 'poor economic situations!', they do not have the gusto to go out there and become admirable in all respect. When a lady meets n intelligent Muslim man, a man who has great plans and not just plans of taking a 2nd, 3rd or fourth wife, she would no doubt settle for him even if his present status is not like that of Bill gate!

Teewhyraul:
Funny is when Yeyenati keeps mentioning how brothers should roll up their sleeves and work, how she won't be a Mrs to a broke, lazy dreamer with an attitude of a bully just because it's Deen. And all the other sister debaters before her keeps accuses the brothers of getting too much education, trying to build castles and have the finest cars.

For a brother seeking to take dressings from you sisters, i think you have successfully confused him the more.

Seems like you all dont know what you want

A HOUSE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF

No we women are different and have different perspectives. Don't be confused just keep focus and remind yourself we women aren't 100% alike brother.

Of course a brother should work and make himself better, since he wants to be oga of the house (with all the obligations that follow) but don't delay marrying for your own wish peak financially before the nikkah.

We don't want a broke man without any ambition to come and claim leadership and deny us our right to education.. makes sense?

Just like men don't want an illiterate wife who's only income is the mans income (even tho she can according to the deen )

Slitz:
and the men keep saying women want ready made men! They forget that marriage is a contract and divine one at that and that every contract must have an item of exchange between the contracting parties. A lady who is yet to see 'good stuff' is not likely to partake in such contract. The caliber of men we have today basically sit in their homes and cry 'poor economic situations!', they do not have the gusto to go out there and become admirable in all respect. When a lady meets n intelligent Muslim man, a man who has great plans and not just plans of taking a 2nd, 3rd or fourth wife, she would no doubt settle for him even if his present status is not like that of Bill gate!

How can one even think of 2nd wife when he can't handle all the responsibilities for the first ?? Let's handle task one before we worry abt the next..

Wizeboy made a point of women not wanting to be fully led. I guess by 'fully led' you mean a woman who just nods YES/NO, right? Men are the head of the home No doubt! but the women are partners/helpers as well. A good woman is submissive but not DUMB!!! A woman tries to make some reasonable inputs in the home and the man immediately screams the verse of the Quran reminding her that he is the head. I believe one can fish out a little insecurity on his part.
When a man really lives up to his role of being a MAN, a woman would not only submit but would even enjoy the act of submitting!!!

semioyin:
@wizeboy you mentioned the role of the husband, as the leader of the house. Many men are aware of this however are they aware, that this does not mean that the wife becomes their object, their maid or their slave?

Women want a man, a leader but not a boss! And there's a difference. Men boast about being the leader of the house but forget that with great power comes great responsibility. One cannot claim leadership and neglect the obligations that follow. Just as men have rights over women we have rights as well, and those are your obligations.

And being the leader of the household doesn't mean being the dictator. There's an element of partnership and companionship in marriage, but men seems to forget that, which can cause women to doubt whether the man can actually care for her the way a husband should.

I never said husband should be a boss or dictator in my presentation...

Almighty Allah clearly state the roles of husband towards wife likewise the roles of wife towards husband.... These should not be misquoted at all.

Husband should be able to help wife at home but that doesn't mean the wife should take it as a responsibility for the man to always partake in the house chore.

For husband to fulfil his responsibilities doesn't mean until he is like Dangote or Otedola before he will be able to do that, a brother with source of income should be enough for you sisters and stop looking for ready-made brothers everywhere.

Teewhyraul:
Funny is when Yeyenati keeps mentioning how brothers should roll up their sleeves and work, how she won't be a Mrs to a broke, lazy dreamer with an attitude of a bully just because it's Deen. And all the other sister debaters before her keeps accuses the brothers of getting too much education, trying to build castles and have the finest cars.

For a brother seeking to take dressings from you sisters, i think you have successfully confused him the more.

Seems like you all dont know what you want

A HOUSE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF

what do you eat with? Your mouth rigjt? But how many parts are in there?

A house: bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, e.t.c.

I want tall, slim, bald men who has a job but also not too egotistical to know that I matter. And not just by saying it.

Or does variety confuse you? I like your type then, no 2nd wife in the horizon.

I am busting my *** of for us!
Educating myself so u don't carry the financial burden alone, guarding myself, learning to cook delicious food for you, learning my deen so I can help us reach jannah and one day will carry your children. I am doing more that you can imagine for you, even though we possibly haven't met yet. All while I'm taking care of my family.

With out my help how will you be able to reach your goals, raise your kids, and cook delicious warm meals.
Marriage is a partnership if you want a successful one. It's a partnership if you wish to be satisfied with this life and the next ? I'm offering all this future husband, to make our lives easier. Now tell me why you focus on me being submissive and you being the boss, and the extra wives and whether I should continue my education or not when you should just thank Allah for a pious, smart, helpful wife who has your best interest at heart and honour you on a daily basis ?

Wizeboy:



I never said husband should be a boss or dictator in my presentation...

Almighty Allah clearly state the roles of husband towards wife likewise the roles of wife towards husband.... These should not be misquoted at all.

Husband should be able to help wife at home but that doesn't mean the wife should take it as a responsibility for the man to always partake in the house chore.

For husband to fulfil his responsibilities doesn't mean until he is like Dangote or Otedola before he will be able to do that, a brother with source of income should be enough for you sisters and stop looking for ready-made brothers everywhere.

Okay, if is eases your financial burden, that your wife works why can't you take some house chores. the wife is still a human, she carries your children, works to ease your burden and has to look after d house, clean and cook and still have energy to be your wife, look good for you etc why can't she expect the man to take some house chores as well. She's not a machine and the day only has 24 hours ...

Slitz:
and the men keep saying women want ready made men! They forget that marriage is a contract and divine one at that and that every contract must have an item of exchange between the contracting parties. A lady who is yet to see 'good stuff' is not likely to partake in such contract. The caliber of men we have today basically sit in their homes and cry 'poor economic situations!', they do not have the gusto to go out there and become admirable in all respect. When a lady meets n intelligent Muslim man, a man who has great plans and not just plans of taking a 2nd, 3rd or fourth wife, she would no doubt settle for him even if his present status is not like that of Bill gate!

I laugh anytime I hear sisters saying they are looking for good stuff from brothers before they can say yes... Looking at the situation of the country for example where a brother graduate at the age of 27 years and maybe he was able to secure a nice job that can only cater for him, his wife and children but necessarily creating extra to buy cars, build house or take you on an expensive vacation around the world, does that mean such brother is lazy?

If sisters rightly know that marriage is a contract, why can't you start with a brother that has a very bright prospect from the beginning and builld the fortune of the family together rather than acting like a gold digger?

Wizeboy said sisters are always after what they can benefit from the man, I believe this goes either way. I mean why would I not consider what could be benefited? A man decides to marry a woman and before arriving at such conclusion keep in mind that he has observed her, asked questions about her, he has basically become a CIA agent overnight! WHY? Because he needs to be sure he is getting a good deal!!! So if a brother would go to such length, why can't a sister who knows what stuff she has got not also investigate on the how 'fruitful' the man would be? I don't think it fair if she is denied the right to also know if she is getting a good deal!

Wizeboy:



I laugh anytime I hear sisters saying they are looking for good stuff from brothers before they can say yes... Looking at the situation of the country for example where a brother graduate at the age of 27 years and maybe he was able to secure a nice job that can only cater for him, his wife and children but necessarily creating extra to buy cars, build house or take you on an expensive vacation around the world, does that mean such brother is lazy?

If sisters rightly know that marriage is a contract, why can't you start with a brother that has a very bright prospect from the beginning and builld the fortune of the family together rather than acting like a gold digger?

Wher did the sister state that she wanted a man who can afford cars, expensive vacations etc. No One expects that!

The issue is we have broke brothers with no ambitious expecting to be the leader and provider? The women can't educate themselves according to some of these or should wait after they've popped a few kids cud the clock is always ticking.. can you see the issue ?

We ask that if you want to be the leader and enjoy the rights of one, fulfill the obligations as well and stop worrying about my education since it will benefit you as well..

@ Semioyin

I am happy that your presentation is in support of brothers rather than following your co-debaters in giving flimsy excuses about brothers. You might not want to accept my assertion of your presentation but can you explain the following from your presentation:

1. Whose right is it to ask for Mahr?

2. Whose family dictates the marriage venue?

3. Whose family present a lineage list of bridal items?


With the above questions based on your presentation, you will have no choice than to agree with me that the fault of not marrying is that of the sisters rather than blaming the brothers

On the issue of a lady looking for the tall dark and handsome man, we must understand that its not really about that, a tall dark and handsome man who does not look neat and presentable would still be a NO NO!. If the short man would take more time to dress well and the fat one would ensure he smells and looks good, then why not?

To yeyenati, semioyin and slit:Let me tell you,if we continuing talking about education!education!! education or career!!!we'll never achieve anything or much in life

Can anyone here who want to become more Pope than the Catholic tell me he has never dated and this is pure haram.Why not go for something which is clear than this distorted and wrong path?!

Marriage is all about individual involved. If your partner support you,you can both achieve great thing together.Cased study is the Muslim sister I posted up there.Despite her marital status(married ),she was still went on to become the overall best graduating student.How many of you can claim such feat despite your single status.I THINK IT'S HIGH TIME FOR YOU TO WAKE UP FROM YOUR SLUMBER#AN ADVICE....

Wizeboy:
@ Semioyin

I am happy that your presentation is in support of brothers rather than following your co-debaters in giving flimsy excuses about brothers. You might not want to accept my assertion of your presentation but can you explain the following from your presentation:

1. Whose right is it to ask for Mahr?

2. Whose family dictates the marriage venue?

3. Whose family present a lineage list of bridal items?


With the above questions based on your presentation, you will have no choice than to agree with me that the fault of not marrying is that of the sisters rather than blaming the brothers

It would seem that we would reach the same conclusion however, we don't. I've met numerous guys some well in their thirties saying oh I must wait and earn enough for the expenses you just listed? How come you guys can't tell your future wife that you will not be paying millions? You don't mind taking control after the nikkah but before the men lost their voices ?
yes it's the women's right but the men aren't obligated to use more than they can afford, (check first post)
so just drop that excuse, and try telling your fiance that you'll be spending what you can afford. If she says no, well you have the right to choose someone else who doesn't think like that (we're many btw)

semioyin:



No we women are different and have different perspectives. Don't be confused just keep focus and remind yourself we women aren't 100% alike brother.

Of course a brother should work and make himself better, since he wants to be oga of the house (with all the obligations that follow) but don't delay marrying for your own wish peak financially before the nikkah.

We don't want a broke man without any ambition to come and claim leadership and deny us our right to education.. makes sense?

Just like men don't want an illiterate wife who's only income is the mans income (even tho she can according to the deen )

You don't need to remind brothers of their responsibilities of taking care of their wife and family.

Every brothers understand these perfectly and brothers do work hard to be able to provides for all his family needs because Almighty Allah prescribed that to us..

Mind you, hard work doesn't always bring about success most of the time, many brothers work hard and smart but they are still average financially because is only Allaah who grant success to whoever He wishes.

Brothers don't have money or struggling doesn't mean he's lazy or wouldn't have bright future, learn to start from the scratch with a brother to build a wealth and your name will never be forgotten

Wizeboy:




You don't need to remind brothers of their responsibilities of taking care of their wife and family.

Every brothers understand these perfectly and brothers do work hard to be able to provides for all his family needs because Almighty Allah prescribed that to us..

Mind you, hard work doesn't always bring about success most of the time, many brothers work hard and smart but they are still average financially because is only Allaah who grant success to whoever He wishes.

Brothers don't have money or struggling doesn't mean he's lazy or wouldn't have bright future, learn to start from the scratch with a brother to build a wealth and your name will never be forgotten

No one here is saying brothers who are average financially aren't good enough. in fact the opposite! And we all know finance can go well and bad, that's up to Allah. We want brothers who try, who have ambition if he wants to enjoy the rights of the husband's. That's all. You must agree that that's a fair request ?

And yes we can remind our dear brothers till we die if we wish, because you are supposed to take care of us and provide for us. If we put ourselves under your responsibility and all we hear is sumbission and the display of the boss mentality, we need to remind you that we aren't yours to boss around but yours to protect

Slitz:
On the issue of a lady looking for the tall dark and handsome man, we must understand that its not really about that, a tall dark and handsome man who does not look neat and presentable would still be a NO NO!. If the short man would take more time to dress well and the fat one would ensure he smells and looks good, then why not?

Really!I hear you. What should we now say about a sister that after she gave birth to a child,what we really looked for when marrying her has been a shadow of her former self I.e she's dirty, doesn't look tidy,lazy, beauty fading.Should we divorce at this stage?

Slitz:
On the issue of a lady looking for the tall dark and handsome man, we must understand that its not really about that, a tall dark and handsome man who does not look neat and presentable would still be a NO NO!. If the short man would take more time to dress well and the fat one would ensure he smells and looks good, then why not?

Really!I hear you. What should we now say about a sister that after she gave birth to a child,what we really looked for when marrying her has been a shadow of her former self I.e she's dirty, doesn't look tidy,lazy, beauty fading.Should we divorce her at this stage?

yeyenati:
what do you eat with? Your mouth rigjt? But how many parts are in there?

A house: bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, e.t.c.

I want tall, slim, bald men who has a job but also not too egotistical to know that I matter. And not just by saying it.

Or does variety confuse you? I like your type then, no 2nd wife in the horizon.

Woman will not cease to amaze me till I die

They can't be separated with money

No money,no love.....

baba11:

Really!I hear you. What should we now say about a sister that after she gave birth to a child,what we really looked for when marrying her has been a shadow of her former self I.e she's dirty, doesn't look tidy,lazy, beauty fading.Should we divorce her at this stage?

Why did u get married? For her beauty, her wealth and status ? Pls check the hadith above. And are men immune to being tired, looking tired and aging ? ...

Marriage should be until jannah and if your spouse is falling short, a simple conversation should be enough. It's fair to let your wife/husband know they are loosing their way during the everyday hassle

Do the brothers have more to bring to the table ??

Slitz:
and the men keep saying women want ready made men! They forget that marriage is a contract and divine one at that and that every contract must have an item of exchange between the contracting parties. A lady who is yet to see 'good stuff' is not likely to partake in such contract. The caliber of men we have today basically sit in their homes and cry 'poor economic situations!', they do not have the gusto to go out there and become admirable in all respect. When a lady meets n intelligent Muslim man, a man who has great plans and not just plans of taking a 2nd, 3rd or fourth wife, she would no doubt settle for him even if his present status is not like that of Bill gate!

Can you marry man with all these qualities but no money...

Can you marry billionaire as a 4th wife.....


Now answer me:






if both case s are presented before you,which one are you going to chose?

Why are the Brothers to blame.

As they are the ones who initiate the steps towards marriage the question is what keeps them.

It cannot be finance since they aren't obligated to spend More than they can afford.

It can't be lack of sisters, as there are more sisters to go around - pious sisters!

It can't be that it's not religiously required because it's the sunnah, something you should hasten towards and fulfills have your deen and in some cases become fard..

What's stopping the brothers ?

baba11:

Can you marry man with all these qualities but no money...

Can you marry billionaire as a 4th wife.....


Now answer me:






if both case s are presented before you,which one are you going to chose?

How can a man with no money look for marriage ( provide for the wife etc)

Love is blind so of course that can happen, however when there's no love included the marriage contract becomes a business contract and we are investing our life.

semioyin:


Why did u get married? For her beauty, her wealth and status ? Pls check the hadith above. And are men immune to being tired, looking tired and aging ? ...

Marriage should be until jannah and if your spouse is falling short, a simple conversation should be enough. It's fair to let your wife/husband know they are loosing their way during the everyday hassle

Why did you too are looking for physical features in a brother instead of deen.....



mind you,what's good for the goose is also good for the gander...

semioyin:


Why did u get married? For her beauty, her wealth and status ? Pls check the hadith above. And are men immune to being tired, looking tired and aging ? ...

Marriage should be until jannah and if your spouse is falling short, a simple conversation should be enough. It's fair to let your wife/husband know they are loosing their way during the everyday hassle

Why did you too are looking for physical features in a brother instead of deen.....



mind you,what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.

baba11:

Why did you too are looking for physical features in a brother instead of deen.....



mind you,what's good for the goose is also good for the gander...

It is not haram for a man or woman to choose a spouse who's "easy on the eyes" and good looks don't mean no deen. But it shouldnt be the main criterum.. but still no shame in looking for a spouse you're also attracted to as long as you don't choose the beautiful less religious one over the more religious less attractive one.

But in the end, intimacy is a big part of a marriage and surely everyone wishes to have a spouse they are attracted to. But it's important to note that the man isn't expected to rock a six pack until yawm ul qiyamah just as the wife isn't expected to rock louboutins day n night. Everything must have balance and not be extreme..

How about romance? We've spoken a lot about education, wealth and roles but how about the romantic aspect of marriage ? What do the brothers think, cus marriage isn't all chores and money..