Please only debaters are allowed to post for now, the thread will be open by 2pm for comments.

Thank you.

semioyin:
How about romance? We've spoken a lot about education, wealth and roles but how about the romantic aspect of marriage ? What do the brothers think, cus marriage isn't all chores and money..

Yea,I agree but this very aspect,Most women shy away from it and we're the one who are mostly at the receiving end..

baba11:

Yea,I agree but this very aspect,Most women shy away from it and we're the one who are mostly at the receiving end..

Can you further elaborate as my impression is that in this department men lack in effort ??

semioyin:


Can you further elaborate as my impression is that in this department men lack in effort ??

When we enquire about these from you, you either feel reluctant in discussing it or rather you meet us with outright rejection and I believe this is one of the major reasons men request for second wife immediately after tying the knot with the first one.

semioyin:



It would seem that we would reach the same conclusion however, we don't. I've met numerous guys some well in their thirties saying oh I must wait and earn enough for the expenses you just listed? How come you guys can't tell your future wife that you will not be paying millions? You don't mind taking control after the nikkah but before the men lost their voices ?
yes it's the women's right but the men aren't obligated to use more than they can afford, (check first post)
so just drop that excuse, and try telling your fiance that you'll be spending what you can afford. If she says no, well you have the right to choose someone else who doesn't think like that (we're many btw)

How many of the sisters want to have low-key wedding, have you forgotten how all of you sisters always dream about a wedding that will be the talk of the town and always want to make sure your wedding is bigger and more nice than your friends who had theirs before you.

Dropping these sisters for their believe for big wedding is still one of the reasons why brothers are finding it difficult to marry because sisters that want low-key wedding are few nowadays

baba11:

When we enquire about these from you, you either feel reluctant in discussing it or rather you meet us with outright rejection and I believe this is one of the major reasons men request for second wife immediately after tying the knot with the first one.

Women rejecting romance ?? Sorry, but that seems so far from reality. I'm talking romance in all and not just intercourse..

Thread is now open for comments and contributions.

semioyin:


Women rejecting romance ?? Sorry, but that seems so far from reality. I'm talking romance in all and not just intercourse..

Yea, I know what I'm talking about in this path of the world!So answer me, I'm going for jumat service very soon....

Wizeboy:



How many of the sisters want to have low-key wedding, have you forgotten how all of you sisters always dream about a wedding that will be the talk of the town and always want to make sure your wedding is bigger and more nice than your friends who had theirs before you.

Dropping these sisters for their believe for big wedding is still one of the reasons why brothers are finding it difficult to marry because sisters that want low-key wedding are few nowadays

I honestly don't understand the shift in men when it comes to that. They can boast about leadership about them having the final say but cannot sit down and go thru the amount they wish to pay for the wedding with the fiance?

And please dont make it sound like women are expecting a presidental wedding.

Of course the wedding isn't for free and it is a celebration but there's a middle way and as a man if your fiance requires more than you can afford talk to her, women aren't made of stone but actually have sense and a mind.

But men should really leave this poor excuse of ohh women want an expensive wedding so I can't get married right now..

You can quote Quran when it's a about the man's rights over the women but can't quote the verses about spending on the wedding..

baba11:

Yea, I know what I'm talking about in this path of the world!So answer me, I'm going for jumat service very soon....

Women want romance of course! They want a man who make them feel desired. When a wife does all these things, slaving for the man she wants to feell appreciated and this is one of your moments to shine. But if there's no romance how can you expect sex from her ? If you aren't attentive, and loving throughout the day what do you expect at night.

Some men have this demand demand mentality but fail to realise that whatever a women gives you is up to you. If you treat her well she will treat you better ! Believe that.

semioyin:



I honestly don't understand the shift in men when it comes to that. They can boast about leadership about them having the final say but cannot sit down and go thru the amount they wish to pay for the wedding with the fiance?

And please dont make it sound like women are expecting a presidental wedding.

Of course the wedding isn't for free and it is a celebration but there's a middle way and as a man if your fiance requires more than you can afford talk to her, women aren't made of stone but actually have sense and a mind.

But men should really leave this poor excuse of ohh women want an expensive wedding so I can't get married right now..

You can quote Quran when it's a about the man's rights over the women but can't quote the verses about spending on the wedding..

There's no Quran verse that asked you to spend extravagantly on a wedding, so don't give me an excuse as if Quran or any Hadith make it so compulsory for you to hold big wedding.

In Islamic wedding, all what is needed is few family members of the brother and few members of the family of the sister... Why pushing brother to an extravagant wedding in which he will has to be paying the debt for the next 2 years.

The most important thing in marriage is for both family to consent to their children as husband and wife, all other party and merriment doesn't carry any Sunnah but rather just showing off

Wizeboy:


There's no Quran verse that asked you to spend extravagantly on a wedding, so don't give me an excuse as if Quran or any Hadith make it so compulsory for you to hold big wedding.

In Islamic wedding, all what is needed is few family members of the brother and few members of the family of the sister... Why pushing brother to an extravagant wedding in which he will has to be paying the debt for the next 2 years.

The most important thing in marriage is for both family to consent to their children as husband and wife, all other party and merriment doesn't carry any Sunnah but rather just showing off

Exactly my point! So if your fiance is demanding more than you can afford, please show her that the Quran states that you're only required to spend what you can afford. Do you think she won't care ? Do you think she will argue with the Quran?

Do that just like you would if your fiance claimed you aren't allowed to take other wives ...


And please note, there are brothers who won't settle for an average wwedding because they also would like to parade around and show their wealth!!

semioyin:



Exactly my point! So if your fiance is demanding more than you can afford, please show her that the Quran states that you're only required to spend what you can afford. Do you think she won't care ? Do you think she will argue with the Quran?

Do that just like you would if your fiance claimed you aren't allowed to take other wives ...

I believe you sisters already know the Quran verse who asked us to do whatever we can afford but you sisters just seem not to care about it.... All you want is how your wedding will be one of the biggest in town and party of the year.

No amount of appeal can solve the problem because they are bent on achieving their aim which is one of the reason most of them are still single.

That is one of the reason you always seek Dangote's son and co

Wizeboy:



I believe you sisters already know the Quran verse who asked us to do whatever we can afford but you sisters just seem not to care about it.... All you want is how your wedding will be one of the biggest in town and party of the year.

No amount of appeal can solve the problem because they are bent on achieving their aim which is one of the reason most of them are still single.

That is one of the reason you always seek Dangote's son and co

Be careful with generalizing like that!

No amount of appeal can solve the issue ??

In that case, if the woman doesn't want to listen to the Qur'an, you should probably look for a religious one that doesn't argue with the holy book but to paint a picture like all women ignore the Quran is just wrong! Just like women men also like to show off their wealth but no one's perfect, and we all have short comings so if your fiance doesnt care than I'm sure she has other short comings and I would advise you to look for a different girl instead and not put collective blame. Some men hit their women even tho they're not allowed to do in Islam.

Am I suppose to run from marriage because of one guy ? ... It's the same logic.. Am I suppose to blame all difficulties on all brothers ?

Our debaters are putting up a wonderful performance.

Apologies to the posters that got their posts hidden before 2pm. We did that to ensure this debate is properly structured and the debaters have the chance to attack their opponents' posts and defend their positions.

Our readers can post or repost their opinions up till 8pm.

semioyin:



Be careful with generalizing like that!

No amount of appeal can solve the issue ??

In that case, if the woman doesn't want to listen to the Qur'an, you should probably look for a religious one that doesn't argue with the holy book but to paint a picture like all women ignore the Quran is just wrong! Just like women men also like to show off their wealth but no one's perfect, and we all have short comings so if your fiance doesnt care than I'm sure she has other short comings and I would advise you to look for a different girl instead and not put collective blame. Some men hit their women even tho they're not allowed to do in Islam.

Am I suppose to run from marriage because of one guy ? ... It's the same logic.. Am I suppose to blame all difficulties on all brothers ?

I have already said it before that it is only few of the sisters (even those with hijab) that normally succumb to doing low-key wedding... 90% of sisters want a big wedding which is one of the reasons brothers keep on searching for the one who can succumb to their wishes.

How many Islamic wedding nowadays are hold in parlour or in a compound where those that will attend will not be more thaan 20 people?

Let's face the fact, most of the sisters now want a wedding whose her friends will always be jealous of

Wizeboy:


I have already said it before that it is only few of the sisters (even those with hijab) that normally succumb to doing low-key wedding... 90% of sisters want a big wedding which is one of the reasons brothers keep on searching for the one who can succumb to their wishes.

How many Islamic wedding nowadays are hold in parlour or in a compound where those that will attend will not be more thaan 20 people?

Let's face the fact, most of the sisters now want a wedding whose her friends will always be jealous of

One thing is wanting a big wedding but to say that 90% wants a big wedding for the purpose of making friends jealous and won't listen to the Qur'an if the man refuses to go into debt to afford it seems..... A bit far fetched!

I'm not saying no woman wants a big wedding I'm saying that men shouldn't use that as an excuse to delay marriage, when I'm sure 9/10 times a normal conversation and the couple Will find a suitable budget they both think is fine.

It's the mentality behind all of this I'm struggling to understand. Men act helpless in this department but can defend their other rights ?.... C'mon now.

Nope!
Money and love, different things. Money is a nice addition to all the TLC. But we don't cry foul for it! Just because you guys get carrie away by it, doesn't mean we should indulge you. If he doesn't see money as a nice thing to have, it's 'sayanora baby!'

**salutes him**

baba11:


Woman will not cease to amaze me till I die

They can't be separated with money

No money,no love.....

Heheheheheheheheehe!!
Buhahhahahahahahaha!!!
Seriously?!! What do you call romance?! You guys are so clueless. And you sir, seem to be on the 'read even if you don't get' category.
While the ladies are there learning all about kamasutra, you guys are there doing 'king of the jungle'.
Physical attractions matters a lot. How would I even marry you if I'm not attracted to you. Call us vain, but if it's within the limits, cute brothers have an edge over those unkempt ones.
You walk around with ill-fitted caps, non-tendered beards, tight fitting shirts, dusty feet.
To many of our brothers, charms and hygiene are not important. The believe is that because they are vast in Islam, that should make them eligible enough. Fa! Fa! Foul!!! No lady wanna take a brother home to daddy looking all funny.
We all want a guy that speaks well, carried himself well, knows what to say as at when necessary. Not some judgmental man with bad manners but wants you to be gentle with him, respect his feelings.
Even if he knows the Deen and all that, if I am not attracted to him. Sorry! That's what I see first, and not how educated or vast he is.

semioyin:


One thing is wanting a big wedding but to say that 90% wants a big wedding for the purpose of making friends jealous and won't listen to the Qur'an if the man refuses to go into debt to afford it seems..... A bit far fetched!

I'm not saying no woman wants a big wedding I'm saying that men shouldn't use that as an excuse to delay marriage, when I'm sure 9/10 times a normal conversation and the couple Will find a suitable budget they both think is fine.

It's the mentality behind all of this I'm struggling to understand. Men act helpless in this department but can defend their other rights ?.... C'mon now.

It is not far fetched at all.... Because what I'm saying is very obvious among nowadays sisters..

I have witnessed these experiences from friends and fellow brothers who had got married in the past...

Did you also know that most of you sisters never want to manager one bedroom apartment for a start with brother? I've seen on many occasions where brothers have to secure money through debt just to secure nice apartment because of a sister, as these sisters always let brothers know boldly that they can't stay in a room but rather flat before they can even go ahead with any Nikkah plan.

yeyenati:
Asalamu alaykum waramotuahi, wa barakatuhu.


And the talk about nikkah, this is a ceremony. Its not marriage itself, if you can't 'shake body'? Then go and sit own till you do. You aint doing us a favor! We are the one doing you guys a favor, many favors actually.

My brothers, we love you but we love ourselves more. And if this is an issue for you? Well...

**shrugs and smiles**

Go handle your business. We ain't your mum, we ain't your slaves. Our careers are for us and not for you to use as your points for the book titled 'effects of men's shortcomings.!'

we? We gat this!!!! Better believe that!!! When it's done, both in your head and out of, then we can discuss this further. Until then, we have got money to make!!! Ciao!!!!

Ma salaam!!!

Your Presentation can best be summarized with the phrase "we have got money to make"
I Cringe when i hear words like this from sisters and even brothers. except we have accepted that the purpose of our existence is simply to make money then there will be nothing to argue about as regards money, money and money demands from brothers before marriage.
even though i do not subscribe to the idea of using poverty as a virtue, however i don't believe this should be at the center stage when it comes to finding a future partner.
You sound more like the carrier ladies that brags with foreign accent and achievement around town. but i need to let you know here that if you must include financial freedom in your recipe of marriage you must also not be mindful of divine favour which can come and go at anytime.

Ma Salam

Wizeboy:



It is not far fetched at all.... Because what I'm saying is very obvious among nowadays sisters..

I have witnessed these experiences from friends and fellow brothers who had got married in the past...

Did you also know that most of you sisters never want to manager one bedroom apartment for a start with brother? I've seen on many occasions where brothers have to secure money through debt just to secure nice apartment because of a sister, as these sisters always let brothers know boldly that they can't stay in a room but rather flat before they can even go ahead with any Nikkah plan.

If this is what you experience please broaden your horizon instead of painting a picture like that.

I've also seen many who are engaged while the man still lives at home ? And they're fine with that, patiently waiting for him... It's not horrible that a sister demands certain things but to say that they put impossible standards is not correct. Just like a man expects certain things the women do as well, but if all you meet are women demanding dangote life style I would advise you to look elsewhere as many many many sisters if I dare say most require acceptable things before they invest their life into a marriage .

yeyenati:
Heheheheheheheheehe!!
Buhahhahahahahahaha!!!
Seriously?!! What do you call romance?! You guys are so clueless. And you sir, seem to be on the 'read even if you don't get' category.
While the ladies are there learning all about kamasutra, you guys are there doing 'king of the jungle'.
Physical attractions matters a lot. How would I even marry you if I'm not attracted to you. Call us vain, but if it's within the limits, cute brothers have an edge over those unkempt ones.
You walk around with ill-fitted caps, non-tendered beards, tight fitting shirts, dusty feet.
To many of our brothers, charms and hygiene are not important. The believe is that because they are vast in Islam, that should make them eligible enough. Fa! Fa! Foul!!! No lady wanna take a brother home to daddy looking all funny.
We all want a guy that speaks well, carried himself well, knows what to say as at when necessary. Not some judgmental man with bad manners but wants you to be gentle with him, respect his feelings.
Even if he knows the Deen and all that, if I am not attracted to him. Sorry! That's what I see first, and not how educated or vast he is.

A guy with all the qualities u just mentioned with an average income and a one room apartment can u still take him home

omoakin111:


Your Presentation can best be summarized with the phrase "we have got money to make"
I Cringed when i hear words like this from sisters and even guys. except we have accepted that the purpose of our existence is simply to make money then there will be nothing to argue about as regards money, money and money demands from brothers before marriage.
even though i do not subscribe to the idea of using poverty as a virtue, however i don't believe this should be at the center stage when it comes to finding a future partner.
You sound more like the carrier ladies that brags with foreign accent and achievement around town. but i need to let you know here that if you must include financial freedom in your recipe of marriage you must also not be mindful of divine favour which can come and go at anytime.

Ma Salam

There's nothing wrong with women wanting to earn their own money. Why be dependent and risk the mn kicking u out without a penny to your name.. It's called being smart. However that doesn't necessarily mean that the man is only viewed as a bank.

A man is supposed to provide for the women! That's your responsibility and not our fault. If you have a problem with that then too bad. It's the women's right so if a man doesn't have a dollar to his name how can he ensure the wife and kids ? Provide for them. I'm talking the necessary part not trips to paris.

If he can fulfill his duties, ma sha Allah if not then marriage is to early for him..

Wizeboy:



It is not far fetched at all.... Because what I'm saying is very obvious among nowadays sisters..

I have witnessed these experiences from friends and fellow brothers who had got married in the past...

Did you also know that most of you sisters never want to manager one bedroom apartment for a start with brother? I've seen on many occasions where brothers have to secure money through debt just to secure nice apartment because of a sister, as these sisters always let brothers know boldly that they can't stay in a room but rather flat before they can even go ahead with any Nikkah plan.

okay let's paint a scenario here. A man who has no steady source of income, has no concrete plans for the future, is probably not educated yet hopes to find a sister who would share a one room apartment with him! com'on she doesn't need a suitsayer to tell her that's a danger zone. He probably would remain in that state for a while. Let's paint another scenario, a man who has tied his camel nicely, a lady would not mind starting off with one room apartment because she is hopeful that its a condition that would soon change

balash:




A guy with all the qualities u just mentioned with an average income and a one room apartment can u still take him home

A guy with the deen correct, an average income and a one bedroom flat. As long as he treats me well and we connect, what's the issue ?? We can always move into a bigger later InshaAllah, as Allah will surely provide for those who rely on Him

semioyin:



If this is what you experience please broaden your horizon instead of painting a picture like that.

I've also seen many who are engaged while the man still lives at home ? And they're fine with that, patiently waiting for him... It's not horrible that a sister demands certain things but to say that they put impossible standards is not correct. Just like a man expects certain things the women do as well, but if all you meet are women demanding dangote life style I would advise you to look elsewhere as many many many sisters if I dare say most require acceptable things before they invest their life into a marriage .

For how long brothers should keep on searching for saint among sisters?

Brothers are now wise not to waste their time looking for saint among you sisters again but rather try to be working harder so that when we meet your basic requirement, then we are ready to go... Looking for a sister that will be contented with little things nowadays is like expecting the fruit which only comes out once a year throughout the year when its gone.

Sisters should just stop crying foul of not seeing brothers, you pushed brothers away to work for money before thinking about you... So you are the cause/reason why brothers don't think about marriage again at the right time

Wizeboy:



For how long brothers should keep on searching for saint among sisters?

Brothers are now wise not to waste their time looking for saint among you sisters again but rather try to be working harder so that when we meet your basic requirement, then we are ready to go... Looking for a sister that will be contented with little things nowadays is like expecting the fruit which only comes out once a year throughout the year when its gone.

Sisters should just stop crying foul of not seeing brothers, you pushed brothers away to work for money before thinking about you... So you are the cause/reason why brothers don't think about marriage again at the right time

That's why men are to blame... Because u meet a few bad apples and put a stop to it...

I've met bad apples as well, am I suppose to
blame every bother an delay marrying one because I lost hope ? When a brother says no I can't marry yet, I'm busy working and saving up what's the woman suppose to say ?

I have had quite an interesting time reading through the debaters' posts. Both sides have done a good job so far, ma shaa Allah.







However, I am also opinion that the bulk of the blame should be on the brothers.






One of the issues I have noticed among the brothers is fear. They are afraid of taking the plunge! Discuss with some of the single brothers and you will see some giving you flimsy excuses like, they so not want to loose their freedom, their privacy, their lives of spontaneity which most times amounts to being irresponsible. I have had the opportunity of discussing with a particular single brother who said marriage is a life time of compromise and he is afraid of that. Yes, marriage involves a lot of compromise but if you do not see the value in compromise, how will you take ANY important step in life? If you do not take the risk, how will you achieve your goals? If you do not take the plunge, how will you attack the sharks? How does one even marry a man who doesn't see the value in giving and sacrificing? How and when will that man get married?






Also, The men of today seem to be tied to their 'parents'' (not just mothers') apron strings. Allah has commanded us to obey our parents in every way excluding disobeying him, but I think you should not forget to live in the process of making your parents happy. What do you say to a man who calls of marriage to a prospective near perfect spouse because the father just doesn't like her? And why doesn't he like her?, well, he just doesn't. Ask some brothers, where are you planning to settle down, you hear nonsense talks such as 'my mother wants my wife and i to live with her'. Sorry to say this, but whoever marries such a man is in for a lifetime of problems. Sadly, these are the types of men that our society and our parents are breeding these days as a result of their selfishness. Parents know better, yes, but I am sure that we all will agree with me that our parents are wrong sometimes.





I rest my case.

[quote author=semioyin post=29218248]

A guy with the deen correct, an average income and a one bedroom flat. As long as he treats me well and we connect, what's the issue ?? We can always move into a bigger later InshaAllah, as Allah will surely provide for those who rely on Him [/quote


Why can u always move into a bigger place! Allah doesn't permit everyone been wealthy in this world! Staying 20yrs with him and he still has every qualities,treats u well but he is still in his one room apartment with an average income would u still love him the way u loved him when u first started

[quote author=balash post=29218431][/quote]

First of all, the reason to move is because it would be a bit crouded when kids get involved right?

Love doesn't have to do with how many bedrooms we have so of course it doesn't affect my love for my husband. The wish to upgrade the living situation is solely so we can live comfortably and has nothing to do with the relationship, so yes if I must answer I would of course still love him in a 1 room apartment and in a mansion still the same love.
**please note, I'm not the only one who thinks like this

Most times there's logic behind a woman's requirement. We don't ask for things just to have them, you see.

It's about time our brothers trust us instead of believing the worst about us, and make us feel that we have to defend everything while whatever he says we should just assume he knows best...

yeyenati:
Heheheheheheheheehe!!
Buhahhahahahahahaha!!!
Seriously?!! What do you call romance?! You guys are so clueless. And you sir, seem to be on the 'read even if you don't get' category.
While the ladies are there learning all about kamasutra, you guys are there doing 'king of the jungle'.
Physical attractions matters a lot. How would I even marry you if I'm not attracted to you. Call us vain, but if it's within the limits, cute brothers have an edge over those unkempt ones.
You walk around with ill-fitted caps, non-tendered beards, tight fitting shirts, dusty feet.
To many of our brothers, charms and hygiene are not important. The believe is that because they are vast in Islam, that should make them eligible enough. Fa! Fa! Foul!!! No lady wanna take a brother home to daddy looking all funny.
We all want a guy that speaks well, carried himself well, knows what to say as at when necessary. Not some judgmental man with bad manners but wants you to be gentle with him, respect his feelings.
Even if he knows the Deen and all that, if I am not attracted to him. Sorry! That's what I see first, and not how educated or vast he is.

I will never believe your assertions that brothers are always unconcern with their look or their manner of dressing...

Brothers dress nicely except for few, or maybe what you wanted to say is that brothers don't wear D&G shirt, Versace shoe and Polo belt... Because it is now common with sisters to get attracted with brothers who has money and wear designers. No wonder most of our sisters now fell in love with yahoo yahoo boys or garage tout because they are the ones who always see awof money to buy designers while a reasonable brothers use his little earn money to secure future of himself.

Change your perspective about designer and money and look at most of the brothers around you with a Godly view, then you will discover you have been missing a prospective husband with future prospect