johnydon22:

Answer the question; Was it the snake or the satan..if it was satan why then was the snake punished?... and from this your passage the woman never knew it was evil to eat the fruit she only thought she would die. she had no knowledge of good and evil not even knowing she was naked... now why bear this grudge from adam and eve down to this ur own generation, holding everybody responsible for a sin committed by two people out of IGNORANCE ??
Ok am done arguing over jewish mythology with you... you are from a tribe in Nigeria and every people have their own creation story. "can you please tell me that of your tribe?"

Not malvisguy212 or any of the moronic Christians around. They rather die for Jewish mythology

plaetton:


Bullshyte.
Satan is now spirit. Yesterday he was a talking snake.
And if satan is now in hell, why is he freely tormenting Christians today?

You, sir, are sooo confused.

Lol Satan giving Christians headache since 300BC

malvisguy212:
I remember, on one thread, you agreed with the pagan that animals has soul,you guys even went further and claimed animal feel guilt in them, so my points is ; if satan deceive man, why do we have to pay for our sin instead of satan?as long as animal feel guilt and have soul,they are no different from human(according to pagan)

it's nt jst paganism. Ur Bible states.animals have soul too..why don't you read and stop listening to ur thieving pastors?

macof:


Lol Satan giving Christians headache since 300BC

But of course, sir.
The imaginary invisible enemy is always the most stubborn and most difficult enemy to get rid of.

Lol.

davien:
joshthefirst I respect the passion you have for your faith but in plain truth....what would you call a society that imprisons a criminals generation' for a finite crime?....
Is the word "tyrannical" coming to mind?

So I take it you think it isn't fair. It's tyrannical(ignoring the fact that if you believe in subjective morality then you have no right to call another society tyrannical or unfair in their judgements).

But lemme explain it to you, so you don't get a wrong picture. Listen and try to understand. I'm innocently trying to explain something. I'm not being antagonistic here. And I trust you will honestly ask me questions based on your comprehension of the statements I make. Do not be condescending or annoying, or you will be ignored. Thank you.

-Adams sin made us all sinners by "nature" not by "deed". In other words, we're in a prison of "sinful nature". Always tending to rebel and do wrong and always tending to love the flair and rush of the wrong we do, the sweetness of evil. (I'm sure you've felt this before)

-Of course we can still do good, but that doesn't change who we are by nature. Our nature of imperfection is the prison. And because of this nature, we sin and do imperfect things, which bring us condemnation. (I believe this tackles rilwayne's issue)

Note well that I am not trying to make a case for this "unfairness". The very fact of it is still there. I'm just trying to make things plain. So you know what I'm talking about.

In case you don't care for all I've written so far, this is the brunt of it all:
The "unfair" issue is that God made it so that Adams nature and its consequence would pass on to all of his offspring: humanity.
Your question would be: why do I inherit Adams fallen nature and his death and seperation from God when I didn't sin like he did?

Do you want to know why?

@OP

The same bible that said wages of sin is death. But lets look around us, animal, fish, birds and plants dies. Are they sinners too?

Did they also eat the forbidden fruit?

Joshthefirst:
So I take it you think it isn't fair. It's tyrannical(ignoring the fact that if you believe in subjective morality then you have no right to call another society tyrannical or unfair in their judgements).

The fact that morality is subjective,doesn't change life being preferable to death as minimizing or ceasing pain maximizes happiness....

But lemme explain it to you, so you don't get a wrong picture. Listen and try to understand. I'm innocently trying to explain something. I'm not being antagonistic here. And I trust you will honestly ask me questions based on your comprehension of the statements I make. Do not be condescending or annoying, or you will be ignored. Thank you.

Well josh,it depends on if you're willing to not just hear yourself talk...

-Adams sin made us all sinners by "nature" not by "deed" In other words, we're in a prison of "sinful nature". Always tending to rebel and do wrong and always tending to love the flair and rush of the wrong we do, the sweetness of evil. (I'm sure you've felt this before)

I've never felt any "sweetness of evil" nor love the "flair of doing wrongs"....

The biblical "adam" has nothing to do with morality because it's not based on reality but jewish mythology...

-Of course we can still do good, but that doesn't change who we are by nature. Our nature of imperfection is the prison. And because of this nature, we sin and do imperfect things, which bring us condemnation. (I believe this tackles rilwayne's issue)

That is the very basis of christianity,to impose the idea that human beings are inherently evil when in reality we have as much potential to do good and evil....
In christianity a homeless korean kid that steals food to eat,has "sinned" and is supposedly going to hell....is that just?

Note well that I am not trying to make a case for this "unfairness". The very fact of it is still there. I'm just trying to make things plain. So you know what I'm talking about.

In case you don't care for all I've written so far, this is the brunt of it all:
The "unfair" issue is that God made it so that Adams nature and its consequence would pass on to all of his offspring: humanity.
Your question would be: why do I inherit Adams fallen nature and his death and seperation from God when I didn't sin like he did?

Do you want to know why?

I can see that you have a script to go by,but sadly my question is why a billion generations should pay for one man's mistakes(based on the mythology ofcourse)...

davien:
The fact that morality is subjective,doesn't change life being preferable to death as minimizing or ceasing pain maximizes happiness....
Well josh,it depends on if you're willing to not just hear yourself talk...
I've never felt any "sweetness of evil" nor love the "flair of doing wrongs"....

The biblical "adam" has nothing to do with morality because it's not based on reality but jewish mythology...
That is the very basis of christianity,to impose the idea that human beings are inherently evil when in reality we have as much potential to do good and evil....
In christianity a homeless korean kid that steals food to eat,has "sinned" and is supposedly going to hell....is that just?
I can see that you have a script to go by,but sadly my question is why a billion generations should pay for one man's mistakes(based on the mythology ofcourse)...

Seriously the type of jagon this people yap here is very annoying..
Who told you humanity is a sin?
You see, they are being taught that their very nature is a sin, that their very existence is a sin. no wonder they always feel the need to be saved cus of the guilt and burden they have been ladened with.
How can someone term humanity a sin based on the mythology of some people.
I dont know about them, their humanity might be a sin unto their mythical god because their mythical adam sinned cus a mythical talking snake deceived his mythical rib wife.
Humanity is beautiful, humanity is wonderful, humanity is good and good only... We all have the ability to do great good and great evil, it isbthe choices we make that determines if what we do is good or evil ...In a very vast universe filled with beauty and wonder, you decide to term yourself as a sin because you are human, well that is good for you.
Just speak for yourself!!! ... honestly Davien sometimes i find it difficult to read the type of shiiii these christians spew here

johnydon22:

Seriously the type of jagon this people yap here is very annoying..
Who told you humanity is a sin?
You see, they are being taught that their very nature is a sin, that their very existence is a sin. no wonder they always feel the need to be saved cus of the guilt and burden they have been ladened with.
How can someone term humanity a sin based on the mythology of some people.
I dont know about them, their humanity might be a sin unto their mythical god because their mythical adam sinned cus a mythical talking snake deceived his mythical rib wife.
Humanity is beautiful, humanity is wonderful, humanity is good and good only... We all have the ability to do great good and great evil, it isbthe choices we make that determines if what we do is good or evil ...In a very vast universe filled with beauty and wonder, you decide to term yourself as a sin because you are human, well that is good for you.
Just speak for yourself!!! ... honestly Davien sometimes i find it difficult to read the type of shiiii these christians spew here

My brother... I am simply amazed. Is it that their heads are blocked? Cant they see through reason? Sometime I wonder what controls these people.

You know, I used to wonder why a Muslim could be brainwashed into strapping a bomb to himself and go kill thousands of people. But if these Christians can have this kind of mind and believe in some incoherent Jewish story like its all that matters, why wouldt the Muslim be brainwashed?

Imagine entering a bus and a wretched uneducated man stands up and starts prophesying blessing on everyone, even people better than him. They all just shout amen like zombies. No one asks, if this man can prophecy blessing on me, why not bless himself first and be rich?

I saw a bunch of wretched looking Chosen members wearing dirty off coloured aprons with cheap speakers yesterday morning, when they should be at work. They were singing some funny incoherent songs and sharing trackers. These people were mostly in their late 30s and early 50s. I almost weeped at their stupidity.

Josh is obviously an intelligent young man, but look at what religion has done to him. He strongly believes he has evil sinful nature because of some Jewish man he had never met. His whole reality is based on some books he just believe is the word of God. Yet despite all these no man has ever lived up to the so called standard of the bible. They know they Sin... Unfortunately they condemn themselves.

Its really pathetic.

davien:
The fact that morality is subjective,doesn't change life being preferable to death as minimizing or ceasing pain maximizes happiness....

You realize you have just contradicted yourself twice in this quote? Do you know what subjectivity is? You claimed that subjectivity is a fact then went on to put forward two objective absolutes. Smh.

davien:
I've never felt any "sweetness of evil" nor love the "flair of doing wrongs"....

This is a lie. But there's nothing I can say or argue about if you just live in denial like this. Foolish denial actually. Any mature human being who says he hasn't ever felt the sweetness of doing wrong is maybe psychotic or a perfect man, like Jesus.
Why would we as humans do wrong collectively and individually time after time even when we know the repercussions of wrong doing if we are not drawn by the pleasures of wrong doing thereof?

davien: The biblical "adam" has nothing to do with morality because it's not based on reality but jewish mythology...

And what is reality?

davien: That is the very basis of christianity,to impose the idea that human beings are inherently evil when in reality we have as much potential to do good and evil....
In christianity a homeless korean kid that steals food to eat,has "sinned" and is supposedly going to hell....is that just?

Nonsense again. I don't need to argue this point with you again of course. Look through the ages of human history and the lives to see if humans have an equal tendency of both sides. Please be realistic and stop spouting idealistic thoughts. The very fact that we choose evil(whether its once in a while or a lifestyle) denotes imperfection

davien: I can see that you have a script to go by,but sadly my question is why a billion generations should pay for one man's mistakes(based on the mythology ofcourse)...

Well, its superficially the same question.(if you don't notice that then sadly we've been wasting our time)

God made it so that the imperfection of countless generations and the judgement of countless sins would be ("unfairly"?) placed on one man who had never done anything wrong: Jesus Christ.
God chose to put creation under a curse (instead of wiping it out in Judgement) because he had me and you in mind. He planned a savior who would vanquish this curse when the time was right.

I have reached the purpose of this thread in this explanation. Unfortunately it was only you who showed any real indulgence. Thank you very much for listening. Feel free to ask more questions.


As for those who think that the evil that humans do won't connect with guilt or judgement of any kind and "humanity is good and only good"(Lol). I wish above all things that you open your eyes to what is happening around you and begin to acknowledge the problem of imperfection and sin before its too late.

frank317:

He strongly believes he has evil sinful nature because of some Jewish man he had never met.

For clarity's sake i will address this misunderstanding. It seems you've become blinded by some dogma you read about Christianity thats why you cannot be able to grasp the simple facts i have been typing here by simply reading and understanding. This is what foolish blindness and maybe some bitterness has turned you into.

I had a sinful nature because i realized i was always tending to sinning and running away from God and rejecting his mercy and grace and righteousness. I kept indulging in sinful pleasures and impunities. Even before I met Jesus, this fact was already settled in my mind.

frank317: His whole reality is based on some books he just believe is the word of God. Yet despite all these no man has ever lived up to the so called standard of the bible.

No one has ever lived up to the standard of the bible and no one ever will of course. Only Jesus did that. You do not even know the basic tenets of the organization you mindlessly(and quite foolishly) fight against.

frank317: They know they Sin... Unfortunately they condemn themselves.

Yes we all know sin. The difference between me and you is that I am no longer condemned because of the sacrifice of Jesus. But your sin condemns you, whether you condemn yourself or not, whether you care or not. Sin brings condemnation. Jesus brings salvation.

macof:


it's nt jst paganism. Ur Bible states.animals have soul too..why don't you read and stop listening to ur thieving pastors?

can you quote the verse?

@joshthefirst,
Contradictions galore.

First you say that man is inherently bad (sinful ), and no amount of moral uprightness can make him good.
Now you say that you were once sinful (as in sinful acts), but you are good now.

The funny truth you have revealed here is that your past sins are haunting you, so much so that it is making you project your guilt and shame onto others.
I had always suspected this, but you have confirmed it.

Please learn to deal with your inner demons without projecting your moral schizophrenia onto people who do not share your religious delusions.

My opinion is that you haven't yet conquered your inner demons. The conquest of self is the greatest conquest of all.

Until then, you are far from competent to call anyone else a sinner.
"Take ye out the log that is in thine eyes before thou pointeth at the spec in another person's eye".

Do you know said the above?

malvisguy212:
can you quote the verse?

I did that already in that thread but ok here's a
Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 read and understand

plaetton:
@joshthefirst,
Contradictions galore.

First you say that man is inherently bad (sinful ), and no amount of moral uprightness can make him good.
Now you say that you were once sinful (as in sinful acts), but you are good now.

The funny truth you have revealed here is that your past sins are haunting you, so much so that it is making you project your guilt and shame onto others.
I had always suspected this, but you have confirmed it.

Please learn to deal with your inner demons without projecting your moral schizophrenia onto people who do not share your religious delusions.

My opinion is that you haven't yet conquered your inner demons. The conquest of self is the greatest conquest of all.

Until then, you are far from competent to call anyone else a sinner.
"Take ye out the log that is in thine eyes before thou pointeth at the spec in another person's eye".

Do you know said the above?

If this is what you have plowed from my posts so far, then you are seriously very confused and cannot read and understand. Please post references of your claims. Maybe they'll help you go back and read again and get the real picture.