They know this. Which is why they are diversifying like crazy. Heck, Dubai just signeed an agreement to build a fab for AMD. In the semi industry, this is huge news. Same thing with financials. Cash is king, even with the low price per barrel of oil.

There is a major difference between the assembly plants being built in the Middle-East and the cutting-edge technology that Israel is reknowned for. Nigeria had the former in the 70s oil boom - PAN, ANAMCO, Volkswagen, Philips, e.t.c but it is the latter that is necessary to make the leap to industrialised nations.

Where does Middle-East cash come from? Certainly doesn't drop from the sky, it comes from Westerners paying for oil, the surplus is recycled into US treasuries. Think of it, no Western consunmer, no cash.

You might want to lend a closer ear to the nature of the democracy developing in the middle east. They have managed to place several good leaders in power succesively, something we here in Nigeria are still pining about. Their political process will not mature into western style democracy. They have found a mix of secularism and religion that is giving them stability. Like someone said in another thred, if you back is not bent, no one will ride it, even Iran

Democracy developing in the Middle-East? Examples please.

Pathetic the cries may be, but it makes sense to deal while you still have a significant upper hand, no?
Quote

Upper hand? You are the one chronicling all the wealth of the Middle-East and still suggesting Israel has the upper hand. How is the Middle-East going to bridge the military gap when they can't even develop a world-class rifle? The biggest source of weapons for these Gulf states you are proud of is the US.

This can change quickly. Talent follows capital and in today's world, even talent is liquid. The govt that can get its business in order will get the edge. As the wall streeters whose untouchable jobs are now based in Mumbai and Beijing, because that is where the action is. Or the high tech jobs flowing to China,, because that is where the action is.

If Western human talent moves to the Middle-East, that is not the same as the Middle-East developing its own talent. If there is a showdown, they will simply get up and leave exposing the hubris that remains.

birdman:

some of the replies are laughable. You are missing the point. Hamas was/is wrong. Question is Is Israel's approach viable.

Davidylan, you mention Israel's nuclear deterrent. Finally, you have opened your eyes. If Iran goes nuclear, Israel's military superiority becomes meaningless, JUST LIKE YOU INFERRED. You can't just ignore and bully them as you please anymore.

which is essentially why i keep telling you strawman that this issue is about the superiority of islam. Iran wont go nuclear . . . they can bluff all they want.

HAMAS is wrong - at least you grudgingly admit that even though you dont care.

Is Israel's approach viable - what do you wish Israel does? Jump into the mediteranean sea or just fold their arms and allow HAMAS to develop rockets that are finally able to reach tel aviv?

I support Isreal's action. Its called self-defense. If Hamas was not attacking Isreal Isreal will not have attacked back. Who gives a shit about the heavy casualties on Hamas' side like as if Hamas gets a chance they won't kill 1 million Jews. Was Hamas thinking about innocent lives when they dropped their rockets? Why didn't they invade Isreal with ground troops?

4 Play:

There is a major difference between the assembly plants being built in the Middle-East and the cutting-edge technology that Israel is reknowned for. Nigeria had the former in the 70s oil boom - PAN, ANAMCO, Volkswagen, Philips, e.t.c but it is the latter that is necessary to make the leap to industrialised nations.

Where does Middle-East cash come from? Certainly doesn't drop from the sky, it comes from Westerners paying for oil, the surplus is recycled into US treasuries. Think of it, no Western consunmer, no cash.

Democracy developing in the Middle-East? Examples please.
Upper hand? You are the one chronicling all the wealth of the Middle-East and still suggesting Israel has the upper hand. How is the Middle-East going to bridge the military gap when they can't even develop a world-class rifle? The biggest source of weapons for these Gulf states you are proud of is the US.

If Western human talent moves to the Middle-East, that is not the same as the Middle-East developing its own talent. If there is a showdown, they will simply get up and leave exposing the hubris that remains.

If you want a modern day example of how a third world nation can advance within the span of one generation, check out Brazil, China, India. Sure, they dont have the cutting edge tech today. But they will tomorrow. 50 years ago, Japan was struggling to catch up with the US in video technology. They were definitely no match. Fast forward today, there is no viable video technology company in the US that can stand Japan or Korea for that matter.

I urge you to look into what it takes to start a semiconductor foundry. There is nothing literally more technically intensive. Heck China is losing gobs of money, despite stealing technolgies from other foundries. That Dubai is becoming a player in this field is nothing to sneeze at.

Do you think they are putting this cash into US treasuries because they love the US? As you well know, treasuries are debt, and they are making interest on it. Like credit card companies, they know it is better to have someone in debt to you and only be able to pay you back he interest. There will always be demand for oil. Its not just for driving. Its also plastics and just about every synthetic material you can think of.

I'll repeat because you seem to be skipping the theme over and over again. The issue is TIME. If you are Israel, time is not on your side. Rabin saw this. Even the fiery Ariel Sharon saw this.

@ birdman,

So if you were the Israeli leader, what would you do?

Move into the sea the way Hamas, Syria, Hezballah and Iran want?

No. Deal with it the way other sane nations are doing. Did India have to attack Islamabad? Were we in Nigeria not concerned when it seemed the army was punishing innocent civilians in the delta?
Why equate Hamas to the Palestinian people?

birdman:

No. Deal with it the way other sane nations are doing.

More rhetoric. HOW would other sane nations deal with having 100 rockets A DAY fired at kindergarten schools and hospitals? Pls tell us since you seem to know.

birdman:

Did India have to attack Islamabad?

Straw man alert. WRONG, WOEFULLY WRONG ANALOGY.
The Pakistani government does not have an official policy to destroy India neither does it shell India with rockets and missiles daily.

birdman:

Were we in Nigeria not concerned when it seemed the army was punishing innocent civilians in the delta?

Straw man alert!

1. Because the innocent civilians did nothing wrong.

2. If Cameroun was shelling the Niger Delta daily what would you do?

3. 90% of those killed in Israel's strike were Hamas officials. Hamas on the other hand deliberately targets innocent civilians.

birdman:

Why equate Hamas to the Palestinian people?

Because those same people voted for them and do support them.

1. Because the innocent civilians did nothing wrong.

You said it all. Basic human decency.

Israeli jets kill more than 200

Oh yeah? Says who?
Some people here are real dumb saps.

There are no independent verifiable figures for deaths coming out of Gaza. All figures are produced by Hamas.


Hamas says most of the dead are schoolchildren and you fools swallow it up. Totally avoiding the logic that all of the targets hit were Hamas military or police installations. Not one civilian target was hit. If any missile had misssed you can absolutely 100% guarantee, Hamas would be airing the pictures on TV and in the newspapers. But they aren't are they?

So ask yourself. If all these schoolchildren were killed, what were they doing in police-stations and Hamas HQs?

Hamas makes the figures up and the sheep go running after them. What gimps. If Hamas told you that the moon was made of cheese and the Israelis were going to shoot it down, you would believe them.

HAMAS have always engaged in a campaign of misinformation. Immediately the ceasefire ended they started their rocket attacks on Israel who have shown enough restraint. They should continue to bomb and destroy ALL warehouses since those guys don't know how to separate military from civilian/religious/health facilities.

Most of the dead were Hamas police, but the airstrikes also claimed the lives of civilians, including a 15-year-old boy killed Saturday inside a greenhouse

Which is contrary to reports by birdman that children were being killed .

Palestinians breached the border fence with Egypt and hundreds poured across the frontier, prompting Egyptian guards to open fire, said officials and witnesses on both sides.

Thats how much their Arabs brother love them, Egypt would be quick to scream that Israel is preventing Gazans from entering Israel. But here they are opening fire on their Arab brothers. Double speak or what.

Thousands swept into the streets of cities around the Middle East to denounce Israel's air assault. From Lebanon to Iran, Israel's adversaries used the weekend assault to marshal crowds out onto the streets for noisy demonstrations

Where were these protestants when Hamas was launching rockets last week? I guess they were ok with it as long as its Israelis that were getting killed.

Gaza's Hamas rulers have been stockpiling weapons in recent months, including medium-range missiles. Until Sunday, the deepest targets inside Israel had been the city of Ashkelon and the town of Netivot, which are about 12 miles (20 kilometers) from Gaza

@birdman, These were period of ceasefire and what Hamas was doing was stockpiling arms. and you tell me its about Israel attacking them, what should Israel do? Buy/send more arms to Hamas?

Store clerk Elvira Taberbobsky, 36, stepped outside after one rocket struck only to have a second exploded right in front of her.
"I flew backwards. I couldn't hear anything for a few seconds. and then all of a sudden I saw holes in my pants and blood streaming down my pants," she said.

This is an Israeli woman going about her business and Hamas decided to give her a Xmas gift. When they were unprovoked.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081228/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

dayokanu:

Where were these protestants when Hamas was launching rockets last week? I guess they were ok with it as long as its Israelis that were getting killed.

Turkish jets also hit Kurdish strongholds in Iraq today . . . strangely there are no protests from anyone. Not even Birdman.

[size=14pt]Area resident Fida Kishta rushed to the border once the smoke cleared — and she wasn't alone.

Hundreds gathered at the border wall, trying to get across. Egyptian border guards opened fire above the crowds, trying to scatter them. Instead, residents manned a bulldozer and tried to knock down the wall. When that didn't work, they set an explosive device beside it, knocking what Kishta said appeared to be a small hole. Dozens of defiant Gazans clambered over it, but were eventually returned to Gaza.[/size]

Are these the same Egyptians crying about how unfair the Israeli strikes on Gaza are? Wow, one would have thought the Egyptians who so loved Gaza would have been more than willing to let them into its own country.

Guess the funny thing birdbrain? HAMAS top officials are busy hiding in Syria and Lebanon . . . advocating a third intifada.

what a bunch of cowards.

[size=14pt]With the two-day death toll nearing 300 Sunday, crowds of Gazans breached the border wall with Egypt to escape the chaos. Egyptian forces, some firing in the air, tried to push them back into Gaza and an official said one border guard was killed.[/size]

Ah . . . so much love for the Gazans eh?

I guess you win then. Others are doing it, so it must be ok. Birdman isnt talking about the Kurds, so it must be ok . Its alright to punish a whole populace for the actions of a few.

As for Egyptian actions, it is well known Palestinians have no real allies, mostly of their own doing. This is why they are a pushover, not just for Israel, but other Arabs too. But only is Israel is still actively taking land, and punishing Palestinians at the same time. Common decency suggests a less broad approach, but it apparently isnt going to happen.

birdman:

I guess you win then. Others are doing it, so it must be ok. Birdman isnt talking about the Kurds, so it must be ok . Its alright to punish a whole populace for the actions of a few.

That is not the issue. What i intend to drive at is the hypocrisy involved . . . while muslims INCLUDING TURKS are condemning Israel's "disproportionate response", forgetting of course the unprovoked sending of missiles into Ashdod by HAMAS, the Turkish airforce is busy shelling Kurdish areas in Iraq.

I wonder why the Turks are more "outraged" about a problem miles away while ignoring the same "massacre" at their backyard.

birdman:

As for Egyptian actions, it is well known Palestinians have no real allies, mostly of their own doing. This is why they are a pushover, not just for Israel, but other Arabs too. But only is Israel is still actively taking land, and punishing Palestinians at the same time. Common decency suggests a less broad approach, but it apparently isnt going to happen.

We have heard this lie one too often.

1. What land is Israel still "actively taking"? Gaza that they left in 2001?

2. Is it the same land Egypt once controlled for 19yrs and none of you ever so much as whined about "actively taking land"?

3. Common decency suggests you hypocrites prevail on those cowardly HAMAS leaders who hide in Syria and Lebanon to stop taking shots at Israel and instead concentrate on making life worth living in Gaza . . .

but of course we arent going to see that soon.

[size=18pt] Israel strikes key Hamas offices[/size]

Israeli air raids have pounded the Gaza Strip for a third day, hitting key sites linked to militant group Hamas.

Palestinian medics say about 300 people have been killed in the raids. Two Israelis have died in militant rocket fire, the latest in Ashkelon on Monday.

Foreign minister Tzipi Livni said Israel was determined to "change realities" in Gaza, amid expectations it might launch a ground invasion.

The Islamic University and the interior ministry have been the latest targets.

Other centres of Hamas strength, including security compounds, government offices and tunnels into Egypt, have been hit since Israel started its massive bombing on Saturday morning.

As dawn broke on Monday, witnesses said a powerful explosion struck the interior ministry.

Earlier, a raid hit a laboratory building at the Islamic University - a centre of support for the Islamist militant group that controls Gaza. Many of its top officials graduated from there.

A BBC journalist in Gaza said the university authorities had evacuated the campus as they had been expecting a strike.

'Success'

Ewa Jasiewicz, an international volunteer with the Free Gaza Movement in Bayt Lahiya in northern Gaza, told the BBC she had seen hospitals desperately overstretched as they struggled with serious casualties.

"Because Gaza is so densely populated, there is no such thing as a precision strike - you have glass, brick, shrapnel flying into people's homes," she said.

Earlier on Sunday, Israel bombed smuggling tunnels in southern Gaza used by Palestinians to bring food and other supplies from Egypt - including weapons, Israel says - past the Israeli blockade of the territory.

As jets pounded southern Gaza, hundreds of Palestinians tried to storm a fence on the Egypt border, but Egyptian security forces fired shots to prevent them entering.

An Egyptian security official was shot dead and another wounded in the turmoil which followed.

At the UN, the Security Council joined international calls for restraint by urging an end to all violence between Israel and Gaza.

The US, Israel's strongest ally on the council, said the onus was on Hamas to stop rocket fire.

Israel says Palestinian militants have fired more than 110 rockets from the coast territory since Saturday.

The strikes began on Saturday less than a week after the expiry of a six-month-long ceasefire deal with Hamas.

Israel has hit all Gaza's main towns, including Gaza City in the north and Khan Younis and Rafah in the south.

More than 210 targets were hit in the first 24 hours of what Israel says could be a lengthy military operation.

"We took Hamas by surprise, we targeted Hamas headquarters, so this is the beginning of a successful operation, I hope, but the idea is to change realities on the ground," Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni told the BBC on Sunday.

Analysts said Saturday was the single deadliest day in Gaza since Israel's occupation of the territory in 1967, although no independent confirmation is available of the numbers killed.

Border confusion

Most of those killed were policemen in the Hamas militant movement, including the police chief, but officials said women and children also died.

In Israel, one person was killed on Saturday in the town of Netivot, some 20km (12 miles) east of Gaza.

On Sunday, rockets landed in Ashdod, Israel's largest southern city - which is 38km (23 miles) away - the deepest strikes inside Israel from Gaza so far, Israeli media said. No injuries were reported.

A Palestinian youth was killed by Israeli fire in the north of the West Bank during protests against the raids, medics said.

The air raids came days after the truce expired and as Israel prepares for a general election in February.

The exiled leader of Hamas, Khaled Meshaal, has called for a new intifada, or uprising, against Israel, while the movement's Gaza leader, Ismail Haniya, called the attack an "ugly massacre".

The Israel-Hamas truce was regularly under strain and was allowed to lapse when it expired this month.

From 1967 Israel's military occupied the Gaza Strip and Jewish settlers built communities within the territory. Israel withdrew in 2005 but has maintained control of Gaza's borders.

BBC

The repressive Apartheid Jewish State of Israel has restarted its evil campaign of terror against Palestinian civilians killing about 300 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7802515.stm).


birdman,

Thank you for being one lonely voice of wisdom in the mist of so many Zionist Zombies! You've made an intelligent argument that Israel is running out of time. Time will equalize whatever military/technological advantages the IDF has, and  in the future Israel will shudder to think of the repercussion from the massacre of hundreds of innocent Palestinians, as the Arab states and Iran grow stronger and more able to retaliate decisively against Israeli military actions.

True, Israel has nuclear deterrent, but that will not help the Jewish State. America had a massive nuclear arsenal during the Vietnam War, but could not use it against Uncle Ho's soldiers and the communist Viet Cong. Why? Whatever the reasons maybe they will ensure that Israel's nuclear arsenals rot where they are! Conventional weaponry will get increasingly more available and the Arab states plus Iran will only get stronger. They have no option but to push for this so that they match and surpass the IDF, at least on conventional weapons.

For now, we mourn the dead, both on the Palestinian side (300) and on the Israeli side (2). We pray for their families and friends, that God give them the fortitude to bear their losses.

The massacre continues . . .

[size=14pt]Israel bombs Gaza University
[/size]
Israeli air force jets have bombed the Islamic University in the Gaza Strip, a significant cultural symbol for Hamas.

Earlier, Israel also targeted a Hamas-run government building in Gaza City and the network of tunnels that run between Gaza and Egypt near the Rafah border crossing.

Palestinian medical staff say nearly 300 people have been killed in the air raids over the past two days.

BBC

Isrealis are basically wasting their time.

I thought they would go to church and pray to solve problem alas they are bombing 'unarmed' people.

Nothing can stop HUMAN MIND once it is made-up; ONLY solution for them to have peace; WIPE OUT Pali People.

Otherwise, the D-DAY is coming!

@Richyblack,

Israel withdrew from Gaza two years ago right?  What did it get back? Rockets

Please the rockets from Hamas into Israel are they aimed at "guilty" children and women?
Because it seems only Palestinians have innocent women and children that deserves to be killed.

In the spirit of Arab brotherhood, why is Egypt stopping Gazan from moving into their country.

Moreover where was Richyblack when Hamas was launching rockets into Israel last week.

@landis, The people Hamas is targeting in Israel, are they "armed people"

@landis, The people Hamas is targeting in Israel, are they "armed people"

they are wasting their TIME.

Only solution is WIPE-OUT Pali-People.

Americans did it; they wipe-out RED INDIANS, thats why you can be typing from USA and not dodging BOMBS.

@Topic
Israel has no choice but to be decisive in its current campaign so that it will serve as a lesson to organizations such as Hizbollah.Modern terrorist groups survive because they are leeches and parasites. They hide behind human shield to parpetrate terror. Fortunately for them the world in the last 100yrs has been elevated to a higher level of morality which in turn has fashioned warfare engagement rules and how to deal with your enemies that would have alarmed Crusaders.

The protection these terrorists have is removed automatically when they assume leadership of a state. Hamas has no right to head any state. Ultimately it is the call of the palestinian people. I hope Lebanese are watching because if they make the same blunder, a bigger catastrophe awaits them.

In the meantime, let everyone pray for the state of Israel as it confronts another challenge to its existence.

@Topic
Why are the Jews allowed time and time again to flout UN demands? The UN yesterday asked the two parties at loggerheads to cease fire and in response Israel vows full scale invasion.
I thought you cannot siege a city. Why is the UN sitting idly by why a city is under siege in direct contravention to its principles and rules of war? It's this subhuman treatment of the Palestinians against world opinion that has made even Christians question Hitler's botched attempt at wiping out the Jews. As an African "Christian" I view Jews as the bete noire of my generation, too much resemblance to apartheid South Africa.
Hey lest I forget, they hated Jesus too. 

@Pennywise

The protection these terrorists have is removed automatically when they assume leadership of a state.

In front of you is whats called a keyboard, next to it is what's called a monitor. Combine the two and you'd be surprised at the information available to you. To get you started am volunteering this info. Hamas does not or has not assumed leadership of any state.
As Afam would say>> Enjoy!

@Tornadoz,
Did the UN tell hamas to stop rockets last week?

Hamas and hezballah rockets israel No one talks Israels retaliates the whole world screams

dayokanu:

@Tornadoz,
Did the UN tell hamas to stop rockets last week?

Hamas and hezballah rockets israel No one talks Israels retaliates the whole world screams

Hamas fires rockets for six months - 2 Israelis are killed.

Israel bombs Gaza for six hours - 200 Palestinians are massacred.


@dayokanu,
Does the word disproportionate mean anything in your universe?

dayokanu:

@Richyblack,

Israel withdrew from Gaza two years ago right?  What did it get back? Rockets

Please the rockets from Hamas into Israel are they aimed at "guilty" children and women?
Because it seems only Palestinians have innocent women and children that deserves to be killed.

In the spirit of Arab brotherhood, why is Egypt stopping Gazan from moving into their country.

Moreover where was Richyblack when Hamas was launching rockets into Israel last week.

@landis, The people Hamas is targeting in Israel, are they "armed people"

Stop being a hypocrite like the rest of the Zionists spewing nonsense on this thread! Won't you support any effort to remove any nation illegally occupying your fatherland?

Hamas is in order in resisting the occupation of Palestinian lands by the ruthless IDF! If Israel invades and occupies my country, I will surely support any effort to dislodge them.

Stop being blinded by Zionist thinking, and see the oppressive nature of the Jewish State. Even the ANC had to resort to some violence in fighting a similar kind of oppression in South Africa, and the West labeled the ANC a terrorist organization!

There is no difference between what Hamas is fighting for today and what the ANC fought for yesterday!

Tornadoz:

In front of you is whats called a keyboard, next to it is what's called a monitor. Combine the two and you'd be surprised at the information available to you. To get you started am volunteering this info. Hamas does not or has not assumed leadership of any state.
As Afam would say>> Enjoy!

quote author=Tornadoz link=topic=212228.msg3280306#msg3280306 date=1230546723]

If you are a teacher I am afraid my friend you have chosen the wrong student for several reasons.

Anyway, to whom do the palestinians pay taxes? Who is responsible for their police and civil service? Is it Mahmud Abass who dares not venture into Gaza for fear of his life. Who runs their prisons and judiciary.Who did they vote for?

When people irresponsibly promote anarchy by supporting terrorism and islamic radicalism they fail to realize that if the world degenerate into complete anarchy, they and their cause will be the first to be consumed.
Enjoy.

Hamas fires rockets for six months - 2 Israelis are killed.

Israel bombs Gaza for six hours - 200 Palestinians are massacred.


@dayokanu,
Does the word disproportionate mean anything in your universe?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-211630.64.html#msg3275256

You rape my sister/daughter so you expect me to rape your sister/daughter too?

I can as well anhiliate your family. When Hamas was launching was Hamas expecting Israel too to reply with Qassam rocket? They have witnessed israeli response in the past. If hamas really cared about the people of gaza, They wont be lauching rockets from civilian populated areas.

Hamas is in order in resisting the occupation of Palestinian lands by the ruthless IDF! If Israel invades and occupies my country, I will surely support any effort to dislodge them.

Stop being blinded by Zionist thinking, and see the oppressive nature of the Jewish State. Even the ANC had to resort to some violence in fighting a similar kind of oppression in South Africa, and the West labeled the ANC a terrorist organization!
There is no difference between what Hamas is fighting for today and what the ANC fought for yesterday!

Let Hamas use their strenght to fight. Israel and not go screaming like babies when Israel retaliate.

Stop that rubbish about land of 60 years ago. The UN gave Israel the land.
That means Europeans should be evicted from the land of the Native Americans and the Aborigines in US and Australia,
Yorubas should go and chase Nupes out of Katunga in Niger State.

Isrealis are wasting their TIME.

Only solution for PEACE for them is WIPE-OUT Pali-People.

USA did it; they wipe-out RED INDIANS, thats why you can be typing from USA and not dodging BOMBS.

The world is watching!!

RichyBlacK:


[/b] There is no difference between what Hamas is fighting for today and what the ANC fought for yesterday!

I am shocked even horrified reading sth like this on a Nigerian website. The analogy is flawed in premise and in context. It is also an insult to the revered hero of that struggle-Nelson Mandela.Infact if the ANC had used the same primitive murderous tactic the world opinion would have been heavily against them and the freedom they enjoy now would have eluded them for another 100 years.

Israel holds itself to a far higher level of morality in dealing with terrorists than most western nations not to talk of apertheid SA.Death penalty remains outlawed.Israel is prepared to have a 2-state solution, but Hamas wants them to pack up and leave. Israel has made painful concession of lands worn with sweat and blood over coffee table when it has the means to annexe all Arab states and enforce peace under its own terms.

Islamic radicalism and terrorism is in its final throes of death.I hope their brothers here will have a thing or two to learn

Arab nations went to war with Israel and israel prevailed and claimed their land.
Israel released most of the land they lost in battle, Gave them a 2 state solution which they rejected.
They want Israel in the Mediterreanean sea