Hey people i know it's not news that Bill Gates has no formal university degree, and Gani Fawehinmi had a third class degree in law from university and Tony Elumelu would not be news to people who know about UBA ,standard trust bank and all that merger talks during the the consolidation period of banks in nigeria and one thing about all these guys is that they've achieved some level of success in their fields and are really respected as well.the point is i just got out from one of the UBA branches in abuja here and i overheard someone(a staff) say their oga had a third class from from uniben or sumtin.someone should please tell mi this is a lie or anybody who know if this is true should confirm please,

Wow, although even if he's third class from UNIBEN, he probably won't hire a second class graduate!

What course did he study?

Whether first or third class does not really matter to me. What really matters most is your ability to deliver.

There are so many first class materials that can not defend their certificates. It's only in Nigeria that we worship certificates, that all these count. In developed countries they do not care about what you come with.

Still, I am not suprised if Tony had third class. Still he was able to turn UBA to a merged bank, right?

well, am not surprise.


I guess it shows that success doesnt necessarily depend on your class or whatever.

edmondo:

Whether first or third class does not really matter to me. What really matters most is your ability to deliver.

There are so many first class materials that can not defend their certificates. It's only in Nigeria that we worship certificates, that all these count. In developed countries they do not care about what you come with.
Still, I am not suprised if Tony had third class. Still he was able to turn UBA to a merged bank, right?

1. Everyone finds if very easy to mouth the oft abused phrase; "there are so many first class materials that can not defend their certificates". I wonder how many third class materials can actually defend their own certificates too. Afterall they are products of the same institutions that produced the "non-productive" first class materials!
2. Which "developed countries" are you refering to? Are you aware of the national honor roll program in the US?
Here is an excerpt from a website on the University of Oklahoma:
The University of Oklahoma Honors College has established unique requirements for graduating cum laude, magna cum laude, or summa cum laude. Both the final transcript and the diploma carry the designation. Degree candidates graduating cum laude wear a crimson satin hood with their cap and gown during the commencement ceremony.

The Honors College Office communicates directly with the Registrar's Office to determine which students earn the degree designation. The designation cum laude requires:

successful completion of the 18-23 hours of honors designated course work, including one Honors Colloquia (HON 3993),
filing an honors thesis (the end result of the honors reading and research project) with the Honors Office.
both an OU Retention GPA and a Combined Retention GPA of
3.40-3.59 for cum laude
3.60-3.79 for magna cum laude
3.80-4.00 for summa cum laude
No student subject to disciplinary sanctions for academic misconduct at the University will be graduated cum laude.
(Students entering OU August 2000 or later must take Hon 2973, Perspectives. This is not a requirement for students entering the OU Honors Curriculum before that date.)

Pls bear in mind that the US uses a 4.00 scale as compared to a 5.0 or 6.0 scale in some Nigerian universities.
To say that it is only in Nigeria that "paper qualifications" count is a falsehood, to further perpetuate that ignorance by claiming that developed countries "dont care" what you come out with is just plain unfortunate!
Since you allege that developed countries "dont care" what you come out with, i wonder how they determine recipients of the limited available scholarships!

edmondo:

Whether first or third class does not really matter to me. What really matters most is your ability to deliver.

There are so many first class materials that can not defend their certificates. It's only in Nigeria that we worship certificates, that all these count. In developed countries they do not care about what you come with.

Still, I am not suprised if Tony had third class. Still he was able to turn UBA to a merged bank, right?

Try finishing middle of your class in any law school in the US and see how many law firms line up for you. I'd have thought it'd be the other way round, cos in 'developed countries' the standard of education is much higher and much better. If you end up with a poor grade, it's wholly your fault.
i agree with you, first class or 2.1 isn't always an indication of your true potential. But in so many ways, it's an indication of your seriousness and will to excel. and that's what many employers look for!

Here we go again. LOL!

Silly talk!

[size=14pt]Hey want something to natter about? i have one for you all. Go check out George Bush's credentials , there you have it, here is something to talk about. The President of the united states, the leader of the so called free world, read his credetials and weeep[/size]

texazzpete:

i agree with you, first class or 2.1 isn't always an indication of your true potential. But in so many ways, it's an indication of your seriousness and will to excel. and that's what many employers look for!

Excellent statement, couldnt have put it any better myself. I have met a few first class materials who were not as intelligent as those who had a 2'2, but the difference simply lay in the fact that some were more willing than others to pay the price to reach the top! As usual others are all too busy playing around and hoping to emulate Tony Elumelu and Bill Gates.
We forget that while some like Elumelu may have had well placed parents to guarantee them a sound footing in life, others like Bill Gates were lucky to have been born in countries that place a great emphasis on developing the talents of their citizens!

Wether Tony is a third class holder or not, what matters most is how much he has achieved in the field, he has remarkably made a tremendous impact in lifting his institution to its great height today. The academic class one holds does not matter much in the labour world but the stuff u are made of and what u are able to offer when u are thrown into the field u claim to have a certificate in. In the western countries it is all about what u can proffer to make a positive change as  well as the stuff u are made of. In Nigerian settings today i have discovered that those with lower academic grade perform excellently better than the ones with high academic class. The simple analysis is that so many high class degree holders are discovered to have made their way through the institutions of higher learning by financial or sexual inducement, though some could get it by merit , while those with lower class just got theirs by personal effort as they couldn't suburn, though some could be by poor academic performance. So i think we should look at individual potential, capability and stuff not importantly the Certificate so many hold in the Nigerian present system of things.

so was is wrong with that,1st or last class,it's still degrees,where the promble lies is when you don't have CONNECTIONS with the right peoples.

davidylan:

1. Everyone finds if very easy to mouth the oft abused phrase; "there are so many first class materials that can not defend their certificates". I wonder how many third class materials can actually defend their own certificates too. Afterall they are products of the same institutions that produced the "non-productive" first class materials!
2. Which "developed countries" are you refering to? Are you aware of the national honor roll program in the US? Please bear in mind that the US uses a 4.00 scale as compared to a 5.0 or 6.0 scale in some Nigerian universities.
To say that it is only in Nigeria that "paper qualifications" count is a falsehood, to further perpetuate that ignorance by claiming that developed countries "don't care" what you come out with is just plain unfortunate!
Since you allege that developed countries "don't care" what you come out with, i wonder how they determine recipients of the limited available scholarships!

texazzpete:

Try finishing middle of your class in any law school in the US and see how many law firms line up for you. I'd have thought it'd be the other way round, because in 'developed countries' the standard of education is much higher and much better. If you end up with a poor grade, it's wholly your fault.
i agree with you, first class or 2.1 isn't always an indication of your true potential. But in so many ways, it's an indication of your seriousness and will to excel. and that's what many employers look for!

True talk! people always find it easy to defend mediocrity. They don't place value on paper certificates in "developed countries"!  I laugh out real loud!

Quote from edmondo

In developed countries they do not care about what you come with

Who on God's earth told you that ? Edmondo, please don't make statements if you don't know
for certain what it is you are talking about

I can tell you authoritatively that organizations here in the U.S. put top premium on your grades. Some
firms, including some government agencies, would not grant you an interview if you do not have a B average
from university.

Please get your facts straight

some universities will not even take u for a post-graduate programme if u did not finish with a 2:1 or first class.it's just easier for citizens to get jobs with only experience but a good degree is much appreciated!

dennylove:

so was is wrong with that,1st or last class,it's still degrees,where the promble lies is when you don't have CONNECTIONS with the right peoples.

It's so sad to know ur level in this life and your mindset as well. do u have an SSCE certificate atleast?

edmondo:

Whether first or third class does not really matter to me. What really matters most is your ability to deliver.

Such a shame, no wonder there are so many loafers all over our Ivory towers. Whatever grade they come out with "does not matter to them", all that matters to them is "their ability to deliver"! I wonder what they are really planning to deliver!

@davidylan

That dude doesn't know what he is talking about. I wouldn't take him seriously.

The truth of the matter is your grades in school show cases your intellectual ability and
how serious you are in what you want to accomplish. If
someone graduated with a first class degree and is being outshined at the work place
compared to a third class degree recipient, it is probably because the 1st class holder is
probably more suited for academia than the work place.

It doesn't mean the first class graduate bought his degree at all.

edmondo:

There are so many first class materials that can not defend their certificates.

lexzowul:

In the western countries it is all about what u can proffer to make a positive change as well as the stuff u are made of. In Nigerian settings today i have discovered that those with lower academic grade perform excellently better than the ones with high academic class. The simple analysis is that so many high class degree holders are discovered to have made their way through the institutions of higher learning by financial or sexual inducement, though some could get it by merit , while those with lower class just got theirs by personal effort as they couldn't suburn,

Thanks GNature, i am absolutely gutted when i hear absurd comments such as the above. I am one of the Nigerian "first class materials" and i'm presently doing a PhD program in the US. I have 2 friends who also finished with a first class in our graduating class who are presently doing advanced degrees in Mathematics and Economics in the UK. I'm sure we all bought our degrees and slept with our female lecturers!

To Lexzowul, it will be interesting to see where you made your preposterous discoveries!

@davidylan

Good to know you are a doctoral student.

Where are you attending and what's your major ?

Thanks GNature,

University of Rochester, NY
Toxicology cluster/ dept of environmental medicine 2nd yr

Excellent my brother.

I am happy you go to a fine school like Rochester. Now let me ask you this:

People back home believe that American Education is very easy. They say anyone
can graduate from school here. Infact, many people discount the diplomas obtained
from here outright. You have been through the system here and back home.

What message do you have for such people?

Thanks,
i hate to say i used to be a part of those who thot American Education was really easy until i came here. I remember going through my cousin's 10th grade biology textbook trying to help her with a test and suddenly realising she was studying a part of generics i never came across until yr one in grad school!
I remember my first semester here, i had to go borrow a biochem textbook and start reading from chapter 1 despite taking the same grad school class as undergraduates!
The basic difference between American and Nigerian education is that here, active learning as against cramming theory is highly encouraged. Kids as young as 12 are already performing experiments that Chemistry graduates in Nigeria will struggle with. In Nigeria we don't learn, we cram! We don't read textbooks anymore, our "lecturers" don't do research, they simply copy from ancient textbooks and force us to know the contents word for word.
Nigerian Exam = Regurgitation of your textbook. At the end of the day, nothing is learnt!

It may sound crazy that American kids don't start school until they are 6, and at that are only coloring books as compared to their Nigerian counterparts who are already learning to spell and count. But in the long run the average American kid does not read as much as the Nigerian but He is more knowledgeable because he spends time practicing what he learns in the lab, nature walks, field trips.

Our exam questions and the American version are a world apart. For example:

", NSAIDS such as aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, and indomethacin are extensively used as antiinflammatory agents and produce their therapeutic effects throught the inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis."

Typical Nigerian Exam Question: Mention two examples of NSAIDS and their function.

Typical American Exam Question: What kind of trade-offs would you likely expect with extended NSAID therapy for rheumatoid athritis?

The typical Nigerian exam question requires you to simply regurgitate everything in your note books, the American question on the other hand requires a great deal of not only reading class notes, but also encourages critical reasoning and the ability to draw upon knowledge gained from other classes.

I will always remember how a friend here once described grad school, she says its learning how to learn. Whereas the Nigerian educational system seems more difficult, it actually does little to stimulate independent thought. American exams may look simple, but they actually are more demanding, education is not only about writing exams, it includes the ability to ask critical questions, critique scientific findings and be able to use a wide array of knowledge to answer important questions.

Nigerian education looks difficult but it still remains rooted in the 1970s, Nigerian undergraduates would most likely never read a textbook or a scientific journal. Nigerian exucation may look difficult, but a more than cursory look at the content and not necessarily the quantity of American education would reveal a wide gulf that makes the American high school graduate 10x more knowledgeable than the average Nigerian graduate!

@davidylan

Thanks for the excellent response.

You have said it all - over here, a lot of emphasis is placed on applying what you have learnt
from the text as opposed to just "regurgitating" as it is mostly practiced in Nigeria.

The academic rigour is more profound at the undergraduate realm. Unlike in graduate school,
where there are lots of emphasis placed on doing research, the undergraduate standard here
is very rigid.

When I was pursuing my undergraduate degree at University of Maryland, College Park, there were
a couple of Nigerians who transferred from Nigerian universities and were really struggling. One guy
was taken calculus 1 over (he said he had done it back home) and had to drop out !

I am very happy to see you do so well though. I wish you success in your program.

what is this supposed to do to your life? The person that is asking this question. Is this of any importance to ya? There are more important things in life than this question of yours. Not very smart i must say.

.

Well, I think the point is this: Whateva U com out of school with, endeavor to make a first class in life.

I don't know what Elumelu, Fahwenhimi etc graduated with. The so called 3rd Class stories are all products of rumors.

But at least they all havent made a 3rd class in Life, and thats what matters most. The certificates are all means to an end.

That expected end is success in life.

@rotbog

Cool philosophy !

rotbog:

Well, I think the point is this: Whateva U com out of school with, endeavor to make a first class in life.

I don't know what Elumelu, Fahwenhimi etc graduated with. The so called 3rd Class stories are all products of rumors.

But at least they all havent made a 3rd class in Life, and thats what matters most. The certificates are all means to an end.

That expected end is success in life.

This is what I'll call ''robust thinking''. Great thoughts.

NIGERIANS, We get a full page of "intellectual discourse" while no one answered the bloody question at all, "Did Tony Elumelu graduate (for fact) with a 3rd Class degree or not?

@Amiphat?

I was so surprised that people can be discussing a matter that has not been confirmed.

Amiphat:

NIGERIANS, We get a full page of "intellectual discourse" while no one answered the bloody question at all, "Did Tony Elumelu graduate (for fact) with a 3rd Class degree or not?

how much valuie does it add to your life if he graduated with a 3rd class or not? Just when we've skewed this conversation to a meaningful discourse, you try nd bring us back into triviality. if you don't feel at home with intellectual pursuits, please read thru the nairaland forum, there are million sof posts that will easily satisfy your craving for such tabloid-esque rubbish.
begone

what is this supposed to do to your life? The person that is asking this question. Is this of any importance to ya? There are more important things in life than this question of yours. Not very smart i must say.

Give him a break. There is nothing like a stupid question. People do read the comments posted by others and it might change their opinion. Based on intelligent comments posted so far on this topic, you might be saving another wayward child from blowing his academic chances just to be like Elumelu, Gani or even Bill Gates. We are not all equal. Not everyone will make 1^st class and not everyone will succeed in life with 1^st class or not. Thats just the cold hard truth.

To the person that ask the question:

Failure, sometimes, define/shape our destiny in life. The great Einstein allegedly failed Maths in school, was once rejected as a student at Zurich Polytechnic. But he moved on and stunned the world with his relativity theory. What happened next is history.

Does this mean we should all endeavour to fail first so we can achieve success later? Hell, no!!! Try as much as you can to make good grades in school (1^st class in this case) in a moral and legal way (whatever that means in Nigerian setting). And if you fail then, don't fail to utilize the success that comes with failure. Thats what made Elumelu, Gani, etc what they are.