How do you guys now describe the assertion of the President of the Islamic Republic of Iran for a nation to be wiped off the face of the earth!!

The moslems are enjoined never to be friends with a non muslem a kaffir or why do we have large mosques in all Xtian countries even in the Vatican and Moslems allowed to practise their religion without harrasment and even cover their head and dress according to their religion but Churches and Xtians are not allowed in moslem countries.
Who is more tolerant

Quote from Gist:
"As we have seen, the root cause of the Palestine-Israel conflict is clear. During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees. The state of Israel then refused to allow them to return and either destroyed their villages entirely or expropriated their land, orchards, houses, businesses and personal possessions for the use of the Jewish population. This was the birth of the state of Israel. We know it is hard to accept emotionally, but in this case the Jewish people are in the wrong.We took most of Palestine by force from the Arabs and blamed the victims for resisting their dispossession,  "http://www.cactus48.com/conclusionI.html

@Havila,
That was very intelligent of you to have noticed my path of reasoning was political. Actually, I tot of not taking that path, but then I asked myself can you really separate religion from politics? We're also on the same side when you said "I agree that terrorim is terrorism once the act fulfils the standard 'definition' as displayed, regardless of who carries it out"
O.k the "series" of crusades where political and so christianity cannot be held accountable -agreed at least for the sake of this debate. How then can you hold Islam accountable just because Hamas, Hezbollah perform terrorist act against israel (in retaliation, see my response to dav's comments above) on issues of West bank, Gaza, Shaba farm etc. You'll agree with me that all these are also political so the blame should not rest on Islam.
===============================================================================

@Gist,
While I commend your attempt to defend your postion, it is quite obvious that your research of the Israeli/Palestine conflict is one-sided and limited, the source you quoted is quite ludicrous in their submission and conclusion.
If you noticed that following the 'dictionary definition' of terrorim by somebody, almost every dimwitted issue on earth has been labelled as terrorism, that is preventing a detailed focus on the true issue of terrorim because it is now a matter of defend-my-trench-you-defend-yours-anyhow thereby limiting sensible exchanges. In fact I am still waiting for the 'politically-correct' folks to label an abusive husband as a 'terrorist' or a bully in primary school as a 'terrorist' or a neighbour who fearfully coerces his/her neighbour also as a 'terrorist' after all it fulfils the "webster dictionary" definition of 'Terrorism', isn't it? Unfortunately, that will be simplistic and a product precocious reasoning which, I'm afraid, is becoming evident in some dialogues on this thread: yours and a few others not included though.

Now back to your point: first, thanks for trying to explain the rationale for the quranic quotations given by Davidylan, but you gave a rather narrow interpretation by claiming or assuming, from the point of view of the victims, that the WTC, Madrid or London were not battlefields. However, from the point of view of the perpetrators and the the Islamic theocratic and political leadership worldwide, the entire West is a battlefield for propagation of Islam or fight against the enemies of Islam; and the same quotations are used to justify the aggression. What you hear from the Islamic leaders are an attempt to justify the action of the "matrys", not outrightly defending or condeming them; but what's the difference?. However, why don't you and the other muslims, when you finish backslapping each other, rationalise or explain Sura 9:5, as well as Sura 9:29 in the context.

The website you quoted are definitely delibrately amnesic and probably falsely claiming to be Jews: in their conclusion, they stated that "During the 1948 war, 750,000 Palestinians fled in terror or were actively expelled from their ancestral homeland and turned into refugees" This is so ignorant and deceitful because they refused to state that the "1948 war" was actually 'started' by a coalition of Six Arab countries who 'attacked' the new Israel who were forced to 'defend' themselves then, as they are still doing till today. But why start from 1948?, in fact if you really want to understand the origin of the conflict, historically, you will have to start from 1200 BC when the dispersion of the Jews from their 'land' started, with persecution upon persecution in everyland and everycountry. You will get to 18century when trickles of Jews started returning to the then 'Eretz Yisrael' called Palestine and either worked for or 'bought' arid lands from the Arab landowners before turning it to flourishing agricultural lands (this is called the first "Aliyah" or going up: 1840/70). Then get to 19th century when more came back to 'their' land and 'bought' land (sanctioned by the Turkish governor of the then 'Eretz Yisrael' under the Ottoman Empire and later the British government and the Arabs in the region) to escape the escalating persecution in Europe and rising anti-semitism elsewhere. It is true that the first, second and subsequent waves of attacks on the Jews in Eretz Yisrael were initiated by Arabs under influence of the Haj Amin el Hussein-the Grand Mufti (a muslim Nazi ally), just as Ahmadinajad and Assad are doing today, because the Jews were legally buying back their lands ironically and flourishing in it.

Arab opposition to Jews was not based only on economic and social issues; it was colored by the traditional Muslim vision of the Jews as second class citizens. All these was before the creation of Israel in 1948, so that conclusion above is obtuse. When we see young boys throwing stones on TV at armed Israeli soldiers, the sympathy is emotionally for the children, but what you don't see on TV is that behing the 'boys with stones' are 'adult men and women with AK47 and Katyusha rockets' who are the real aggressors. You asked that how do we separate religion from politics? brillinat question which will need another thread for discussion, but for the sake of this particular thread asking whether 'terrorim is a muslim problem', I will simply answer by saying you can separate politics and religion by looking at the 'faith books of Islam and Christianity' i.e. the Quran and the Bible. In it are the various passages that can answer the question. I perceive, you are man of wisdom, so I have listed some references below for you. These are not spurious websites with religious coloration but books and papers through which you can trace the history of Jews/Israel and the root of the conflict.

Refereces:
1) A.D. Gordon, "Our Tasks Ahead" 1920
2) Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs: From Peace to War, London: Oxford University Press, 1985, p. 140
3) Land, Labor and the Origins of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict, 1882–1914, University of California Press, 1996
4) The BALFOUR Declaration
5) League of Nations Mandate
6) Benny Morris, Righteous Victims, Knopf 1999 Page 99
7) Mandel, Neville, The Arabs and Palestine, UCLA, 1976
The Passfield White Paper
9) The Arab Revot of 1936
10) The British White Paper of 1939
11) British Peel and Woodhead commissions
12) UN Debate on Palestine Partition- November, 26, 1947

gists:

Asallam Alykum Belloti. I must really commend you, mukina2 and Bro Olabowale (and even nilla for standing up for what she believes without getting bullied) for adequately defending Islam. You guys did a great job. May God continue to increase you in wisdom and knowledge (Amin)

We do not know what nilla truly believes. That she says "NO" to the topic question does not say much about her personal believes beyond a predilection for passivity and political correctness. She does not deserve to be bullied either, she's a nice individual albeit naive.

davidylan:

We do not know what nilla truly believes. That she says "NO" to the topic question does not say much about her personal believes beyond a predilection for passivity and political correctness. She does not deserve to be bullied either, she's a nice individual albeit naive.

Nilla trully believes Terrorism is not a Muslim Problem. How many times do i have to say that.
I wonder what other belief your referring too?
Do we have bad Muslims? Yes.
Do we have bad Christians? Yes.

You are too gbasky!!!

gbasky?

Yes oo

haywhy:

You are too gbasky!!!

:p

gbasky means gaskiya ne, meaning you ve spoken the truth

waste of space and (?)intellect! Now that we know the meaning, can we leave the childhood babblings and go back to adult comprehensible talk!!

@ Gbade,
no one is trying to say that there are no terroists in the muslim world,

But let us not lay claim that Islam is whats has ruined Nigeria, and the world.
Let us not spread false lies, that Islam is a Religion that teaches to kill.
When we do not understand the pholosiphies and interpretations. Everyone knows that direct translations ubscure meaning. That is why KKK claim that they are Chrstian.

Extremist are in all different religions and if we sit here and claim that Islam is Terroist religion
We further enrage our brethren and further set divisions between ourselves.
It is fair for me to assume that many of you including myself are christian. Toh, let us start acting like ones!

@Josboy
Do KKK kill for Christ or do they fight for Jesus?
while terrorist act perpetrated by moslems are done in the name of Moh'd fighting for Moh'd so equating KKK activities to Islamic extremists do not jive at all

and probably for knowledge sharing purposes which group has killed people of other religion in recent times for the sake of Jesus?

dayokanu:


and probably for knowledge sharing purposes which group has killed people of other religion in recent times for the sake of Jesus?

Its good you said in recent times. What of in past times

The question is I why is one tolerated and the other is a terroist activity
They are both terroist activities

In India it has been happening like wildfire, go and do your research

@ dayo

The past doesn't count although Chrstians were killing people during the crusades
Hypothetically, Islam is in the same stage of development that chrsitiany was during that period
And trust me, in relation to Extremism, Islam is fairing much better than Chrstiany was back then

belloti:

gbasky means gaskiya ne, meaning you ve spoken the truth

thanx for the explanation

JosBoy4Lif:

Let us not spread false lies, that Islam is a Religion that teaches to kill.
When we do not understand the pholosiphies and interpretations. Everyone knows that direct translations ubscure meaning. That is why KKK claim that they are Christian. Extremist are in all different religions and if we sit here and claim that Islam is Terroist religion. We further enrage our brethren and further set divisions between ourselves.
It is fair for me to assume that many of you including myself are christian. Toh, let us start acting like ones!

Now, this is another version. I thought one the virtues of a christians is to always say the truth no matter whose ox is gored. So, when did it become 'Christ-like' to modify the truth in order not to "further enrage our brethren." Brethren?, How unfortunate that your 'brethren' actually refer to you as mutashirikum in their holy book. Had Jesus been this 'politically correct' with the truth and pharisees, would there have been the gosple today? I don't think so.
Yes, it is not good to spread "false lies", but always good to expose "true lies"; a very good example of true lie is your opinion that Islam is NOT a religion that teaches to kill. This is not a matter of direct or indirect translation, simply read the quran e.g Sura 9:5, 9:29, 8:15, 47:4 etc, read about Ayatollah Khomeini, the French Journalist beheading, Iranian hangings, Salman Rushdie, 9/11, 7/7 etc or simply google 'killings' in Islam' which is an easy research and tell us they are 'false lies.' My friend, a "false lie" is the same as "politically correct" statement: your's is a leading example.

There you go again Havila. If indeed islam teaches us to kill how come we never killed anyone and i believe i am one of the most passionate muslims you can ever find. Insha Allah i will surely die as a muslim and serving the lord Almighty. Islam is peace and Holy quran is guidance to mankind. You can concort all kind of interpretations and permutation but Islam has never ordered the killing of any innocent soul anywhere. The truth shall prevail and one day you shall account for all these reckless allegations and misconceptions.

Nilla, Thanks for your understanding. May the Lord almighty guide and protect you, Amen

belloti:

There you go again Havila. If indeed islam teaches us to kill how come we never killed anyone and i believe i am one of the most passionate muslims you can ever find. Insha Allah i will surely die as a muslim and serving the lord Almighty. Islam is peace and Holy quran is guidance to mankind. You can concort all kind of interpretations and permutation but Islam has never ordered the killing of any innocent soul anywhere. The truth shall prevail and one day you shall account for all these reckless allegations and misconceptions.

Nilla, Thanks for your understanding. May the Lord almighty guide and protect you, Amen

Arabic to English translation of Belloti's post:

There you go again Havila. If indeed islam teaches us not to kill how come we have killed millions and i believe i am one of the many pretentious politically correct muslims you can ever find. Insha Allah i will surely die and kill as a muslim and serving the idol Al-Ilah. Islam is NOT peace and Holy quran is guidance to malevolence. You can concort all kind of interpretations and permutation but Islam has always ordered the killing of any innocent soul everywhere. The truth shall prevail and one day you shall account for all these truthful allegations and correct information.

Nilla, Thanks for your passivity and political correctness. May the idol al-illah guide and protect you, Amen

@ Davidylann,
you never stop, do you?

all i can say to the Christians on this thread is act as Christ will act.

belloti:


Nilla, Thanks for your understanding. May the Lord almighty guide and protect you, Amen

Amen

Sorry for responding late, the year is running to an end and I need to tidy up my work b4 we close.

@gbade. x
"Why do YOU say terrorism is NOT a muslim problem?"[/color]

cos Islam teaches muslims to let peace reign! Here are some verses which usually escape the critics of Islam &terrorists:

== if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people==   5:32

But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace==  8:61

Let there be no compulsion in religion==  2:256

Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves and let (false) hope amuse them. soon will knowledge (undeceive them) i.e knowledge will soon come to them  15:3

Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it)==   18:29

@dayokanu
"[color=#990000]The moslems are enjoined never to be friends with a non muslem a kaffir"
It is in your own interest to keep good company all the time. We have a saying in Yoruba that a sheep that follows a dog will eat feces! Why would you want to be too intimately close to someone that has the capability to influence you (or your actions) into doing things against your faith?

"why do we have large mosques in all Christian countries even in the Vatican and Moslems allowed to practise their religion without harrasment and even cover their head and dress according to their religion but Churches and Xtians are not allowed in moslem countries. Who is more tolerant?"

I wish I could answere this question!! All I can say is that it depends on which side of the divide you are. Are the muslims the only one one who are intolerants? The world didn't really hear of much of the millions of muslims that were murdered by the Serbs (orthodox christians) in the then Yugoslavia. A lot of people thinks the US is a christian country (I think its more of a circular nation), but no  oneis willing to associate the killings of the natives American people to christianity) The native were literally "Wiped Out".

France, another percieved christian nation almost brought Algeria to its knee; France again (a nation many people see as the founder of "Freedom"
"The proposed French law banning Islamic headscarves and other visible religious symbols in state schools would violate the rights to freedom of religion and expression" source: Human Right Watch

Nazis (German roman Catholic) against the Jews


@HAVILA
when you finish backslapping each other, rationalise or explain Sura 9:5, as well as Sura 9:29 in the context.[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000]
To fully understand Q9:5, one has to start from verse one:
1: Freedom from all obligations is declared from GOD and HIS  Messanger to the polytheists, idolator etc with whom you have made a TREATY
2:so travel FREELY as you will idolators, polytheists etc for FOUR months THROUGHOUT THE LAND,
3:And a declaration frm GOD & His Messanger to mankind on d greatest day that GOD is free from all obligations to the idolators, polytheists etc and so is His  Messanger. SO  IF U REPENT (i.e idolators polytheists etc) it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know you cannot escape from the punishment of GOD
4:Except those of the idolators, polytheists with whom you made TREATY, AND WHO HAVE NOT SUBSIQUENTLY FAILED you in aught, nor HAVE SUPPORTED ANYONE AGAINST YOU. So fulfil their treaty to them for the end of their term
5:Then when the sacred months of Islamic calender have passed, then KILL THE IDOLATORS, POLYTHEISTS WHEREEVER YOU FIND THEM, & CAPTURE THEM AND BESIEGE THEM & LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EACH AND EVERY AMBUSH. BUT IF THEY REPENT & perform As-salat, & give zakat, then FREE their way.
6:And if anyone of the idolators seek your protection, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of God and ESCORT him to where he can be secured, that is because they are men who know not

So you see the Qur'an gives a clear-cut profile of those that are to be targetted. 1: (S)He must have signed a No-war TREATY;2:The person must have violated the treaty and given a grace period of FOUR MONTHS (during which he moves FREELY violtating the treaty) to REPENT. 3: The individual must have failed to repent even after a grace of four months. 4:After all these, the individual must have SUPPORTED ANYONE AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. Then the clamp-down of verse 5 can be applied. Even at the heat of the clamp-down the grace is still availble to any of them to seek protection (an unprecedented high level magnanimity)

I don't think we have anything close to these as to justify the claim of Al-Qaida.

Before I explain verse Q9:29, it is very important to note the key words used by God: IDOLATORS[b], POLYTHEISTS, KILL, AMBUSH, STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS (47:4)[/b] etc.

God is very clear when HE intends to pass death sentence on a group of people. Just like he did when HE KILLED all 1st borns in Eygpt when Pharao refused to let the children of Israel go. He did the same in some verses of the bible (don't be suprised!):


1 Samuel 15:1-4

1. Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD
2. Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
3. Now go and SMITE Amalek, and UTTERLY DESTROY all that they have, and SPARE THEM NOT; BUT SLAY BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, INFANT AND SUCKLING, OX AND SHEEP, CAMEL AND ASS
4. And Saul gathered the people together, and numbered them in Telaim, two hundred thousand footmen, and ten thousand men of Judah

Numbers 31:17,18
17 Now therefore KILL EVERY MALE among the little ones, and KILL EVERY WOMAN that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Having that in mind, let's read Q9:29
Fight (_{not Kill}) against those who (i) beleive not in Allah, (ii)Not in the Last Day, (iii) Nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah & His Messenger,  among the people of the scriptures (i.e Jews and Christians), UNTIL THEY PAY THE JIZYAH (i.e. the tax levied on those living under the protection of Islamic state) with willing submission & feel themselves subdued.

This looks more of economic struggle rather full military confrontation (notice that the clear-cut key words used when death sentences are passed are obviously missen). We're all here Fighting for what we bliv in but not a pinhead of blood has been shed so far. The people of the South-South Nigeria are still fighting for resource control and revenue alocation formula.

As for the paper, I didn't expect anyone to just jump to conclusion based on the preface and conlusion I quoted. I expect everyone to at least visit the site with open minds (which obviously you didn't from your response). The point is not who started the 1948 war (The paper looked even beyond your recommended 1200BC), but continued injustice being done on the people. And I also expect people to visit websites of similar jewish organisations as adviced in the paper.

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

http://www.nimn.org/ (Palestinians forced to scavenge for food on rubbish dumps, IDF commander: We fired more than a million cluster bombs in Lebanon )

http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/

N.B Publish books are good references (cos websites can be closed) only when your reader can get them. In Nigeria where libraries are a ghost halls, it will not suprise me to find out that no one has been able to check your claims

There's a thin line between defending what you think is right and Blaspheming. You'll never know when you cross it. The last thing I want to do is qoute the bible "out-of-context". Thus, can somebody clear the air on the above bible verses?

@Gist,
PART A: I will start by clearing your air on the biblical passages you quoted.
Numbers 31: This is where the Midianites were conqurered by Divine judgement. Who were the Medianites? they comprised a large part of the confederation of tribes and often associated with smaller groups like the Ishmaelites, Moabites, Amalekites and Ephah. In this chapter, the judgement was in reference to those associated with Moab. According to the Mosaic law "which was in operation then", adultery and idolatory carried the death penalty. This particualr tribes had caused exactly that in their relation to Israel; i.e spiritual and physical adultery from Yahweh. As you know that Israelites were/are chosen people of God, (this same grace was later opened to the entire world by the coming of Jesus Christ, to be Sons or Chosen of God), these act of the Moabites against the nation of Israel carried the death penalty according to the LAW in that dispensation; and God asked Moses to lead the army agaisnt them. While in 1st Samuel, the divine judgement was on the Amalekites who attacked the relatively weak Israelites on their way out of slavery in Egypt. Again, in that dispensation, total annihilation of the enemy was demanded and Saul was mandated to carry out the command.
However, the coming of Jesus Christ and his Covenant of Grace has translated us, Israel and the rest of the world, to the "new dispensation" of covenant of God's Grace through "faith in Christ". Thus Christians are no longer obligated to the Law because of sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross. The purpose of the Mosaic Laws was simply to prove guilt, convict man of sin and ultimately lead man to Christ for salvation. Thus all the judgement carried out then where in fulfilment of the laid down laws of old Judaistic legalism, but God knows that the laws does not lead to righteousness because he said in Habakuk 2:8 that the JUST SHALL LIVE BY "FAITH". The Laws were given of temporary effect until the coming of the SEED i.e Jesus Christ (Ref: Genesis 12 vs 3-7, and Galatians 3 vs 19) who will now impute His righteousness on those who believe, and lay the grace of righteousness in the heart of the believer through His Spirit. That is the reason why Christianity no longer permits stoning or killing of adulterers, killing of the enemy, killing of idolators or pagans, etc as taught by Jesus Christ in Matthew Chapters 5-6. He forgave the woman caught in adultery and told her to "go sin no more", he taught us to pray for the enemy, those who hate us and dispitefully use us, to pray for conversion of idolatrous persons, pagans and sinners, etc. Grace of God through Christ includes Liberty from the curse of the Law which can not lead to righteousness or righteous living. Salvation is ONLY through the power of the Cross, thus any denila of the Cross is nothing other than accursed deception (anathema) which aims to deceive people from salvation. Am I saying the old testament is no longer relevant? NO. But that we have been free from the obligations of the Mosaic law through the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ to those who believe. For example, while the laws do no commit adultery, through Christ we should not even look with lust; while the law says do not commit murder, through christ we should not even hate a fellow man talkless of killing; while the law says do not steal, through christ you should not even envy or lie, etc etc. The grace of righteousness of God through Christ is in/upon the heart to deal with the emotions that 'leads' to sin. You can apply this to all areas and see how Christianity is Liberty through grace to be freed from the curse of the law. The law does not make man righteous. I have gone from the root of passages you quoted, to the doctrine of grace to aid better understanding of what it means to be a Christian or disciple of Christ and living by the spirit which is a lifelong process of gradula maturity.

@HAVILA
To fully understand Q9:5, one has to start from verse one:
1: Freedom from all obligations is declared from GOD and HIS Messanger to the polytheists, idolator etc with whom you have made a TREATY
2:so travel FREELY as you will idolators, polytheists etc for FOUR months THROUGHOUT THE LAND,
3:And a declaration frm GOD & His Messanger to mankind on d greatest day that GOD is free from all obligations to the idolators, polytheists etc and so is His Messanger. SO IF U REPENT (i.e idolators polytheists etc) it is better for you, but if you turn away, then know you cannot escape from the punishment of GOD
4:Except those of the idolators, polytheists with whom you made TREATY, AND WHO HAVE NOT SUBSIQUENTLY FAILED you in aught, nor HAVE SUPPORTED ANYONE AGAINST YOU. So fulfil their treaty to them for the end of their term
5:Then when the sacred months of Islamic calender have passed, then KILL THE IDOLATORS, POLYTHEISTS WHEREEVER YOU FIND THEM, & CAPTURE THEM AND BESIEGE THEM & LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EACH AND EVERY AMBUSH. BUT IF THEY REPENT & perform As-salat, & give zakat, then FREE their way.
6:And if anyone of the idolators seek your protection, grant him protection so that he may hear the word of God and ESCORT him to where he can be secured, that is because they are men who know not
So you see the Qur'an gives a clear-cut profile of those that are to be targetted. 1: (S)He must have signed a No-war TREATY;2:The person must have violated the treaty and given a grace period of FOUR MONTHS (during which he moves FREELY violtating the treaty) to REPENT. 3: The individual must have failed to repent even after a grace of four months. 4:After all these, the individual must have SUPPORTED ANYONE AGAINST THE MUSLIMS. Then the clamp-down of verse 5 can be applied. Even at the heat of the clamp-down the grace is still availble to any of them to seek protection (an unprecedented high level magnanimity) I don't think we have anything close to these as to justify the claim of Al-Qaida.
Before I explain verse Q9:29, it is very important to note the key words used by God: IDOLATORS[b], POLYTHEISTS, KILL, AMBUSH, STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS (47:4)[/b] etc. God is very clear when HE intends to pass death sentence on a group of people. Just like he did when HE KILLED all 1st borns in Eygpt when Pharao refused to let the children of Israel go. He did the same in some verses of the bible (don't be suprised!)
====================================================================================


PART B:
@Gist,
If you go through my post in part A you will see that we are NOT serving the same God because there is no inconsistency in God, so please do not use the Biblical quotations to justify or support KILLING in ANY situation or condition. While you attempted to justify the "various conditions" or the "different situations" in which you are commanded or mandated to KILL, AMBUSH or BEHEAD sinners like idolators, polytheist etc, the fact is your God still told you to kill! So why are you saying there is no mandate to kill in Islam? The quotations as well as your co-called "treaty" are subject to their interpretation by different mummin, so why can't terrorist justify their actions by the teachings in the quran? It is clear you are to kill the kafir, whom you cannot create, thereby taking the position of god. "If they repent",,,,,,is it in your power to make them repent or rather force them to repent? And You said that there is no compulsion in religion. The fact is the entire quran is full of deceptive oxymoron.
Now you said "Fight against them that believe not in,,,,,,,,,,,,until they feel themselves subdued" how can you still say the same quran posits that there is no compulsion in religion? This is not about economic struggle but a command of "doctrinal triumphantism"; and the examples of the political/economic struggles in south-south is not relevant here because what delienates the muslims from the so-called kafirs is their "faith/belief" not their land, possessions.

As for your various wbesites, methink you are the one not showing any open-mindedness here. Because rather than refer you to pro-jewish websites or so called western media, I gave you sources of books and government papers available online where you could be informed of the facts but you choose to short-circuit the fact with other spurios websites. Dont worry about those in Nigeria, you can conduct your own research; and whenever you start from, the truth will face you head on. Dont look for injustice on the televesion in from the local masjid, truthfully find out the truth and you will know who is the aggressor and the unjust.,,,,,

As a percentage of Islam, how many of them are terroist or extremist
less than 1%?

@Dayokanu: KKK use the Bible to do their deeds> If that is not christianity, then I do not need the Bible or Christianity. Of course, you know thatI donot need it. In my university days in West virginia, the Senior Senator, Robert Byrd was pelted with food when he came to our school. Please know that the Bible was used to fortress te trade of man known as Slave trade. Whites still use the Bible to discriminate, even today in America. In the Bible, you have Conniness of Jacob over his brother Esau, the support came from their mother against their blind father! In the Bible, Ichmael who was a child was discriminated against and sent away with his young mother into a desert and was even called wild! This was the first son of a prophet who God Himself called friend! What a book and what a religion! I am trying to imitate Davidylan in his slapstick tirades. Boy, he is good> No wa o.

@Havila: Mutamushiki is not in the Qur'an. It is a term coined using the original word Mushrik, which is in the Qur'an in all its form to describe a later group like John Esposito and others who hold scholarships in Islamic theory but never practice and always wanting to bring Islam down from the honored place that God the Almighty Allah has placed it. You know that they will never suceed. You Havila, do not have any qualification to be called a Mutamushrik. Plainly you are a Kufar and Mushrik, for now. You book of life is not complete until death overtakes you, so there is hope for everyone alive.

@ Olabowale,
you have come here to spit your jargons again??

olabowale:

@Dayokanu:
(1) KKK use the Bible to do their deeds> If that is not christianity, then I do not need the Bible or Christianity.
(2) Please know that the Bible was used to fortress te trade of man known as Slave trade. Whites still use the Bible to discriminate, even today in America.
(3) In the Bible, Ichmael who was a child was discriminated against and sent away with his young mother into a desert and was even called wild! This was the first son of a prophet who God Himself called friend!

@Havila: Mutamushiki is not in the Qur'an. It is a term coined using the original word Mushrik, which is in the Qur'an in all its form to describe a later group like John Esposito and others who hold scholarships in Islamic theory but never practice and always wanting to bring Islam down from the honored place that God the Almighty Allah has placed it. You know that they will never suceed. You Havila, do not have any qualification to be called a Mutamushrik. Plainly you are a Kufar and Mushrik, for now. You book of life is not complete until death overtakes you, so there is hope for everyone alive.

@ haji Olabowale,
Thanks for calling me Mushrik or Kufar. Whatever!! What you, Olabowale, and your fellows call me islamically is aboslutely of no consequence or effect like you guys. I am What and Who the Lords God Jesus Christ says I am. I am His child, called by His name and sealed by His Spirit "For ye are all the Children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." (Gal 3vs26). Therefore, I tell you that "From henceforth, Let no man trouble me, because I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." Galatians 6 vs 17. You see, there is always an appropriate word in the book of life for accusers of the brethren and his tools.
Now to your 'opinion' above. In another thread, I saw you responding to mrpataki that the dirty behaviour of the northerners is because of the cultural behaviour or beliefs and has nothing to do with their being muslims. But, here you are now trying to do the same, in supporting the culture of racism or the ignoble slave trades carried out by some white people as being because of Christianity. It is simply because you lack understanding of christianity and/or you are delibrately being mischievious. Such inconsistencies reveal shallow intuition.
KKK, Slavery, Rasicm etc have nothing to do with Christianity; those who used the Bible to support their actions are not Christians but simply low-life racists and politicians who were using christianity as an "elitist tool" in those days. To support this assertion, listen to what the Lord told us in Gal 3:
"For as many as have been baptized into (Jesus) Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus."
Jesus again said in Matthew 8:11 that: "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven."
So, having seen and read this, in your own understanding, do you still think any racists or slave trader have any justification to use the bible or Christianity to support their belief? No! That was simply elitist and political rather than scriptural. Such peoples were not and are not Christians. Period!!

Now to Ishmael: Ishmael was the child of the flesh or "arrangee" between Abraham, Sarah and the 'slavewoman' Hagar at a period when Abraham and Sarah doubted the coming of the Child of Promise called Isaac. The bondwoman Hagar delivered Ishmael into bondage and his seeds or descendants are also gendered into bondage unless they reverse the curse of Ishmael's bondage by "putting on (Jesus) Christ" as explained above. Just as Ishmael was 'troubling' Isaac in Genesis 21 vs 9-21 because he saw his hope of inheritance shattered before he and his mother were sent into the desert; Muhammed, being a descendant of Ishmael, is fulfilling his destiny of bondage through Islam, as a rebellion agaisnt the descendants of the child of promise and the God of Abraham. So, what Ahmadinajad of Iran, Assad of Syria, Assan Nasralla of Hizbollah, Sultan of Sokoto, Imam Bah of Senegal, Uthman dan Fodio, Sheik Gumi, Ayatollah Khomeini, Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, etc either did or are all doing is to fulfil or fulfilling their destiny of bondage through Islam and to seek to destroy the descendants of the child of promise but their falilure as been foretold in the scriptures. Read Jeremaih 31, 33, Ezekiel 37-38, etc for confirmation. For the rest of God's proclamation on Ishmael, read Genesis 17-23 and you will SEE and understand what is happening in the Middle East.

This is the truth as foretold in the scriptures with no political-correctness; this is why we will continue to talk about Jesus Christ so that the "curse of bondage of Ishmael" being passed down as "Islam" can be removed by those who choose to accept Him as their Lord and Saviour. The Arab Christians have seen this and are rapidly shaking off the curse by accepting Jesus Christ in increasing numbers, what about you guys who are not even direct descendants of Ishmael but choose to take upon yourself the affliction of Ishmael called Islam?
Peace!!

yes

samy-young:

yes

agree