Yet more delusional rantings of infantile proportions!

olabowale:

Even when you slaughter an animal there is mercy shown to the animal.
The prophet (AS) saw a man who was sharpening a knife in the full view of an animal that he was going to kill. The prophet had to tell the man to show mercy on the animal by not killing it twice, the sharpening of the knife in full view is one and then killing it is the second time.

Even my grandmother would have said the same, i'm not sure she would have been necessarily propagating another religion by uttering mere common sense!

olabowale:

Islam is not a fade and not a man made organization. It is a revealed religion

Islam is not a man-made religion? Why then is ONE MAN the symbol of over 1 billion delusional individuals?
Revealed to who and from who? When and where?

The sun sets in a muddy spring, man is made from a sperm dot, the earth is flat with mountains as tent pegs; which daft individual "revealed" such nonsense?

olabowale:

I am very sure that if the dialogue had actually taken place, there would have been a proper response from the Muslim scholar. Just like the usual Christian tactics, always lopsided, no fairness. But the muslims will allow you the opportunity to present your viewpoint and then disect/break it down, brick by brick.

Dialogue with a muslim? Salman Rushdie, the Danish cartoonist, the victims of 9-11 and 7-7, the innocent igbos and the pope now know better!
What of the usual muslim tactics? Declaring a world wide day of anger, burning embassies, chanting "death to america", hurling stones at Isreal, burning flags, hand cutting, butt flogging, oppression of women, jihad (an euphemism for wickedness and senseless murder). Indeed these are the epitome of fairness!

Are these the same muslims who gave the pope an opportunity to present his viewpoint (er a 12th century quote) by killing an innocent somali nun and threatening to over-run Europe?

Please stop burying your head in the sand of verbose reasoning!

Was it not the Pope who said that Turkey should not be allowed to join the European Union
He evn went as far as to say that Mohammed's teachings are escewed. Who is he to say such things. IF I was a Muslim this would enrage me!

JosBoy4Lif:

Was it not the Pope who said that Turkey should not be allowed to join the European Union
He evn went as far as to say that Muhammad's teachings are escewed. Who is he to say such things. IF I was a Muslim this would enrage me!

Proof dear before you continue hyperventilating!

And IF he indeed made such comments, are they excuse for Hausa/Fulani muslims to kill the law-abiding christian in Kano?

I dont Speak Blind David, Really I don't

Pope on Turkey
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1387459/posts

Pope on Islam
http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourview/2006/09/pope_deeply_sorry_for_comments.html
I trully believe this pope is the wrong pope. No political knowledge whatsover

Im still waiting for someone to answer my question I asked before,

Where did he claim Muhammad's words where eschewed? i could not find it in your links.

As regards Turkey and the EU, the pope was only voicing the oppinions of politically correct but lilly-livered European leaders who privately do not want a European version of Iran on their hands!

As for your earlier question, you would do well to ask the likes of Olabowale! I do not think it merits a response.

And why does it not merit a response    , its ok if you do not like the answer.

If the Pope says that he does not want turkey in the EU, becuase they are muslims, that is what the Pope is saying.
Do you know the influential power the papacy has that he would be a mothpiece for other EU leaders! Comeone!

If these turkish people are an ottoman people they deserve to be in the European Union just like countries like Macedonia, Greece, Cyprus.
The fact that they are 99.8% muslim country has everything to do with it. Don't worry for all those that hate muslims, the world is turning.

As for the Pope insulting Muhammad, He did! If you claim certain teachings of the Bible as being wrong you are insulting those who in effect created those teachings
Same effect with the Quran my friend.

And Another Question, When Christianity was busy forcefully converting people. i.e. Holy Crusades, Expansion into Africa and South America
This one was not terroism?

Again im going to ask the question that David does not want to answer. Since it has no merit, but is fundemental for this discussion:

Christians or Muslims===============> Who is responsible for more killings/ruining of lives/terror?

@Davidylan: I guess the butt of people like you should have been whipped while you were youngre. To do that to you now will damage you. As regard to Muhammad (AS), every body alive who has any brain at all will tell you the focus is God in the way that Muhammad worshipped God. Afterall, the chrsitian are worshipping Jesus in the way of Saul/Paul, even though both of them walked the street of Palestine! The Muslims woeship God not Muhammad. The Christians worship Jesus in the telltale ways that Paul msade up after Jesus had followed even the rules and laws and the book of Moses, a prophet that came earlier than him among the chikdren of Israel. Davidylan, do not you see the wrong way the christians are pursuing  as I have just explained here.

It is true that your grandmother could have said that very simple and merciful thing that even from your heart is common sense. Fortunately, it has a prophetic wisdom in it and yes, your grandmother did not say it.

JosBoy4Lif:

If the Pope says that he does not want turkey in the EU, becuase they are muslims, that is what the Pope is saying.
If these turkish people are an ottoman people they deserve to be in the European Union just like countries like Macedonia, Greece, Cyprus.[/b]The fact that they are 99.8% muslim country has everything to do with it. Don't worry for all those that hate muslims, the world is turning.

And what right has Turkey to be a member of the EU?
To be a part of the EU is NOT BY FORCE! The present members have every right to choose whom they would like to partner with just as Turkey feels it is its God-given right to be a part of the EU. EU membership does not stop Turkey from being a part of Europe, the EU members are wary of a muslim state that is already associated with terrorism, is known to harbour extremists, and may just be the conduit for terrorists to move around EU member nations freely!

Is Russia a part of the EU? Is she not still regarded as a super power?

JosBoy4Lif:

As for the [b]Pope insulting Muhammad, He did! If you claim certain teachings of the Bible as being wrong you are insulting those who in effect created those teachings
Same effect with the Quran my friend.

Stop hyperventilating in deciet dear friend! The pope did not insult Mohammed, he merely QUOTED a 12th century statement!

But as is usual with most muslims who never bother to understand the crux of the matter, it is all about violence and irrational behaviour! If you claim certain passages in the bible are wrong, you have not insulted me. I will patiently wait for God to deal with you PERSONALLY in HIS own time!

That is all we ask of dear old Allah, not sending his deluded troops ranting all over the place trying to defend the indefensible!

olabowale:

@Davidylan: I guess the butt of people like you should have been whipped while you were youngre. To do that to you now will damage you. As regard to Muhammad (AS), every body alive who has any brain at all will tell you the focus is God in the way that Muhammad worshipped God. Afterall, the chrsitian are worshipping Jesus in the way of Saul/Paul, even though both of them walked the street of Palestine! The Muslims woeship God not Muhammad. The Christians worship Jesus in the telltale ways that Paul msade up after Jesus had followed even the rules and laws and the book of Moses, a prophet that came earlier than him among the chikdren of Israel. Davidylan, do not you see the wrong way the christians are pursuing as I have just explained here.

All i see here is a confused individual rambling on about something he has no clue about! Christians worship Jesus in the way Paul prescribed? Why not? At least we know without a doubt that virtually ALL Paul's teachings are in perfect agreement with the writings of other prophets and the Words of Jesus Christ!

Where and when did Jesus follow the laws of Moses? Was this not the same Jesus accused of healing on the sabath day? Was it not for allegedly breaking the laws of Moses that the pharisees, blinded by their own arrogance and self-righteousness, refused to accept HIM?

Are these "laws of Moses" the ones dear old allah claimed to have "sent down" and "confirmed" or do we look for another?

The muslims claim to worship "god" but in essence are mere slaves to a "god" they do not know, one made up by a maurading bandit to fulfill his fleshly lusts!

olabowale:

It is true that your grandmother could have said that very simple and merciful thing that even from your heart is common sense. Fortunately, it has a prophetic wisdom in it and yes, your grandmother did not say it.

For behold i tell thee, my over 70 yr old grandmother did not say that but she must have said a great many things that had more wisdom in them than that criminal called a prophet!

olabowale:

@Davidylan: I guess the butt of people like you should have been whipped while you were youngre. To do that to you now will damage you.

Are you sure?

I thot muslims like you were still butt flogging their wives old enough to be my grandmother! What a shame!

JosBoy4Lif:

Again im going to ask the question that David does not want to answer. Since it has no merit, but is fundemental for this discussion:
Christians or Muslims===============> Who is responsible for more killings/ruining of lives/terror?

@Josboy4lif,
I honestly think that probably guys are not responding to your exact question because it is best handled rhetorically. Why? Some questions can be "answered" simply "Yes/No or A/B" e.g 2+2; while some other questions cannot be answered but must be "decided" Yes/No or A/B and example of the latter is your question.
In 'deciding' an answer, your decision or choice will depend on whether you have all the facts to back up your choice. Now, regardless of the choice of answer to your question quoted above, do you have all the facts to back up that choice to this your "exact" question above? Believe me, nobody does, because what you will have are 'facts' that are 'interpreted' according to the conviction, political inclination or belief of whosoever is doing the answering
But I know the question that you really want to, or should ask is this:
Christians or Muslims=========> Who is responsible for more killings/ruining of lives/terror, etc 'in the name of their religion or God?'
Now, this is more specific, straightforward and contextual and response can be 'answered' and not 'decided'.

olabowale:

Afterall, the chrsitian are worshipping Jesus in the way of Saul/Paul, even though both of them walked the street of Palestine!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,The Christians worship Jesus in the telltale ways that Paul made up,,,,,,

@Olabowale,
I can see that your love for Paul is unfathomable. But seriously can you kindly educate me, and others who might be interested, in the "way or telltale ways of Saul/Paul" by which Christians worship Lord Jesus? Since you mentioned it twice and convincingly, I am sure that you apparently know what you are talking about with facts. This is an opportunity for us to learn something 'new' from your depth of wisdom.

@ Havilla that is not the question i wanted to ask.
The question I wanted to ask I asked. If you dont want to answer thats fine!

But anyway,
Islam has been around for about 1400 years
Christianity has been around for 2000 years.
Maybe you would like to do some research on the holy crusades.

@ David
Insult, Provoke this is exactly what the pontiff did by using this quote.
Italy has known mobsters, why were they allowed in the EU. The Cosa Nostra is the biggest disributor of drugs, but i guess this one is good mankind.
They are also enjoying the perks that come with being part of the EU

@Josboy,
You need to do your research well. But I can say Islam has been responsible for more of the atrocities you mentioned. Do your research well, and you will know that the early 'Holy Crusaders' were not 'crusading' in the name of Christianity but for the political expansion of the Roman empire and/or other empires. In fact, the second wave of Crusaders killed thousands if not millions of Jews in their 'crusade' and the then Emperor of Rome, who hated the Jews/Israel so much for their monotheism, was the one who changed the name of the then land of Israel to 'Palestine' after the arch-enemies of Israel/Jews i.e. the Philistines. He did this to spite Israel because the Philistines/Palestines were polytheists like the Romans.
Compare this to the murderous atrocities committed in the name of allah for the propagation of Islam by 'triumphantism' spreading from Arabia to North Africa up to Southern Spain before they were defeated and expelled back.

JosBoy4Lif:

@ David
Insult, Provoke this is exactly what the pontiff did by using this quote.
Italy has known mobsters, why were they allowed in the EU. The Cosa Nostra is the biggest disributor of drugs, but i guess this one is good mankind.
They are also enjoying the perks that come with being part of the EU

Like i said earlier, it is not a matter of life and death for Turkey to join the EU. The EU is a voluntary organisation of LIKE-MINDED nations not a collection of rogue states!

If there are "perks that come with being part of the EU", it is because those who are members HAVE WORKED FOR IT! THEY DID NOT JUST ACQUIRE THOSE PERKS ON A PLATTER OF GOLD! Freedom of speech, separation of church and state, democracy NOT THEOCRACY is the reason such states enjoy those perks today!

EU members have a right to decide who joins them such as i have a right whom to choose as a friend.

Italy has mobsters, yes! They do not go around denying others the right to life in the name of God!

Yah they go around denying people the right of life in the name of money~
great. I never knew one sin was better than another

JosBoy4Lif:

Yah they go around denying people the right of life in the name of money~
great. I never knew one sin was better than another

Stop being ridiculously unreasonable.

Drug cartels DO NOT KILL as a matter of policy or doctrine! Their major focus is on making money, killing comes secondary and only when it is necessary.

Besides have you ever seen a member of the Italian mafia coming to bomb Lagos, Jakarta, Madrid, London, NY? When did they burn flags, burn embassies, hurl stones at Isreal, hijack aircraft and chant "death to America"?

No but ive seen them sell drugs and ruin lives in these areas of the world.
And the Doctrine of Islam is to kill, wonderful You win!

Islam is a very peaceful religion, I don't know what you'll talking about.

Zulu wetin na, you following me abi
Please come and help me defend our muslim brethren

Lol I'll stay out of this one bro, why do you all pick on the muslims, the are just peaceful people and very much misunderstood

I am a defender of all, you know that Zulu

I know that Jboy, very funny

@ Josboy
I am amazed at what kind of reasoning of lack of it you are displaying
When you are comparing Mafia who do biz for the sake of money and nothing else and Mohammedans who blow up "GUILTY" civilians all over the globe
Did you not see the carnage wrought in Northern Nigeria where I suppose you live on Xtians all in the name of defending Moh'd
Members of the EU decide which country they want in their midst is it by force Turkey should go and meet their fellow blood sucking, Bomb blowing and hate spewing Arab brothers like Syria, Iraq, Iran and others and leave peace loving E.U members alone as peace and love is strange to the Moslem world. Do you know that the last Pope was shot at by whom a Turk I suppose They want to join E.U so that they can bring suicide killing and assasinations a la Rafik Hariri to E.U God forbid.

They are begging to join E.U when other Arab countries are refusing to recognise Israel's right to exist on their own

i want to welcome the newcomers to the debate. i think i like your angles josboy and zulu.

I dont know why you try so hard to associate carnages with islam. does our joining you on nairaland to shed some lights on islam translate to terrorism or you dont want to appreciate our kind of islam which totally does not belong to your definition?

@dayo
So selling drugs is a sign of peace
Do not undermine one evil just so you can ridicule another!
And by the way I am a Christian, Not Xtian

belloti:

i want to welcome the newcomers to the debate. i think i like your angles josboy and zulu.

I don't know why you try so hard to associate carnages with islam. does our joining you on nairaland to shed some lights on islam translate to terrorism or you don't want to appreciate our kind of islam which totally does not belong to your definition?

I wonder why you like to wallow in deciet and half truths! Are we the ones associating violence with Islam? How else do you describe the violence on 9-11, 7-, Java, Madrid, Bombay, Nairobi, Darfur, Mogadishu, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine just to mention a few?

What of "home-grown" terrorist muslims? What of the myriads of passages in the quran that glorify violence? What of those who hurl stones at Isreal and chant "death to America"? What of the muslims who killed an innocent nun for the quotes of a 12th century pope?
What of the unimaginable virulent hatred exhibited by 8yr old muslim kids wishing death on Bush and Sharon, men they do not even know?

And you ask why we "associate" violence with Islam?

Need i remind you of the violent religious riots in northern Nigeria? What of the innocent ones killed in the Maitatsine riots? Ever heard of the Taleban from Borno state? Are you aware of those killed for the cartoons of a Danish journalist?
What of the declaration of the world wide day of anger over the comments of the pope?
Who are those who threatened to kill the poor man for a mere quote?
What of those who vowed to conquer Europe, slit our throats and take our wives as war booty?

And you accuse us of "associating" violence with Islam?

Who are those who hijack aircraft, burn flags and embassies? Who are the suicide bombers?

And you still insist we falsely "associate" violence with Islam?

A wake up call to Olabowole and bellotti and their moderate friends by another arab woman
We need zillions like her.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S55o2hNIXzk&mode=related&search=

well done babyosisi

I wonder why you people accuse others of associating carnage with Islam when Moslems does that to themselves or who are the ones responsible 9-11,July 7 Madrid,Bali to mention a few of the killing in the northern part of Nigeria to protest anything even Miss world, Popes comment, Danish Cartoons, even the slightest of excuses even if a moslem should hit his leg against a stone or rain does not fall a christian is always held responsible and must be killed. Who is now associating violence to Islam other than Moslems themselves by their action.
WHo shot the last Pope John Paul, majority of suicide bombers are of what religion?
@ Josboy Can you tell me a country in the world where there are no organised crime (mafia like)

@Everybody

Hmmmmmmm. At the begining of his thread, on page 1 (it took me about a weekt o read it all, 'cos of work) their was a very pragmatic fellow by the name LOGICAL. He asked some very fundermental questions about terrorism and nobdy seemed to follow his line of thinking and unfortunately, he left the thread. I guess he quickly figured out that we all have our mindset fixed and are not open minded (no offence ment). I'll implore all of us to keep an open mind to my viewpoint.

Is Terrorism A Muslim Problem? NO, Why?

"Terrorism is a term used to describe violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians by groups or persons for political, nationalist, or religious goals. As a type of unconventional warfare, terrorism means to weaken or supplant existing political landscapes through capitulation, acquiescence, or radicalization, as opposed to subversion or direct military action."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism

First of all, can we proof that there are no terrorism acts before Islam came into being? If you remember, the Isrealites were Terrorised by Pharaoh in Eygpt for about 40 (or is it 400)yrs! Now don't tell me that he got the instruction from the Qur'an like you're suggesting all terrorists use as their justification. It was also reported that Moses killed an Egyptian. Again, this couldn't have been inspired by Islam.

Now more recently, there have been many terror attacks all over the world. But somehow its seems the one done by some group of people (I don't want to call them muslims just like christians will not call everybody who profess the name of Jesus as christians) catch the attention most. But why should that be?

JosBoy4Lif raised a point & it gives one the impression that one terror action is permitted and the other is not?

@Havila
Do your research well, and you will know that the early 'Holy Crusaders' were not 'crusading' in the name of Christianity but for the political expansion of the Roman empire and/or other empires"

On the contrary Havila, the early crusade were actually conducted in the name of chritiandom!! Checkout the quote and link below

"The Crusades were a series of military campaigns conducted in the name of Christendom and usually sanctioned by the Pope. They were military campaigns of a religious character typically characterized as being waged against pagans, heretics, Muslims or those under the ban of excommunication. When originally conceived, the aim was to recapture Jerusalem and the Holy Land from the Muslims while supporting the Byzantine Empire against the "ghazwat" of the Seljuq expansion into Anatolia, "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade


So, if this is true, then why is it that we don't here about them. Well one of the reasons is as stated by Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting. In their article "Down the Memory Hole: Israeli contribution to conflict is forgotten by leading papers"

Here are some qoutes from that site just in case your're too busy to visit the link

[b]"In the wake of the most serious outbreak of Israeli/Arab violence in years, three leading U.S. papers—the Washington Post, New York Times and Los Angeles Times—have each strongly editorialized that Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon were solely responsible for sparking violence, and that the Israeli military response was predictable and unavoidable. These editorials ignored recent events that indicate a much more complicated situation.

    In the wake of the most serious outbreak of Israeli/Arab violence in years, three leading U.S. papers—the Washington Post, New York Times and Los Angeles Times—have each strongly editorialized that Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in Lebanon were solely responsible for sparking violence, and that the Israeli military response was predictable and unavoidable. These editorials ignored recent events that indicate a much more complicated situation.

    Let's go on a brief excursion into pre-history. I’m talking about June 20, 2006, when Israeli aircraft fired at least one missile at a car in an attempted extrajudicial assassination attempt on a road between Jabalya and Gaza City. The missile missed the car. Instead it killed three Palestinian children and wounded 15.

    Back we go again to June 13, 2006. Israeli aircraft fired missiles at a van in another attempted extrajudicial assassination. The successive barrages killed nine innocent Palestinians.

Now we're really in the dark ages, reaching far, far back to June 9, 2006, when Israel shelled a beach in Beit Lahiya killing eight civilians and injuring 32.

That's just a brief trip down Memory Lane, and we trip over the bodies of twenty dead and forty-seven wounded, all of them Palestinians, most of them women and children, "[/b]
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2928

Ladies and Gents, these things and many more you don't get to read or hear often 'cos they've all gone like the title of the article gone Down the Memory Hole!! Here are a few dig ups exhumed from the intenet.

UN post
Israel violates Lebanese air space despite existing regional tension - UN envoy:
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=8535&Cr=lebanon

Common Dreams organisation
Attack Iran the Day Iraq War Ends, Demands Israel (Quote of ISRAEL’S Prime Minister Ariel Sharon even though Iran hasn't done anything except that it plans to generate electricty from neucler and IAEA has up till today yet to find any diversion to making nuclear bombs)
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1105-02.htm

King David Hotel bombing:
"The King David Hotel bombing (July 22, 1946) was a bombing attack against the British government of Palestine by members of Irgun — a militant Zionist organization.
The Irgun, dressed as Arabs, exploded a bomb at the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which had been the base for the British Secretariat, the military command and a branch of the Criminal Investigation Division (police). 91 people were killed, most of them staff of the secretariat and the hotel[1]: 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 other. Around 45 people were injured."

Timeonline
British anger at terror celebration (It is bad enough to blow up a hotel, you'll agree with me that it is even worse to celebrate it 60years after! Please read) AS ISRAEL wages war against Hezbollah “terrorists” in Lebanon, Britain has protested about the celebration by right-wing Israelis of a Jewish “act of terrorism” against British rule 60 years ago this week.

,
,
,

The list goes on. (disclaimer, none of the site references above are anonymous like my sister babyosisi have been giving, they're all credible and live western-not arab weblinks)


BACK TO THE TOPIC: Is Terrorism A Muslim Problem?

Be sincere with yourself. I think it is a global problem and should be treated as such. Attacks on small countries should not be waived and swept under the carpet, that will be unjust. And where ever you don't have justice, their can't be peace. The best you can have is GRAVEYARD peace.

As for the attacks in the north, unfortunately most of the early contributors seems to have closed their eyes to the fact that even muslims who are not northerners also suffer the same fate. So, of all the Quranic verses you have qouted earlier in the thread which one can justify this barbaric act? And Yet again you failed to mension that their were repraisal attacks by christians in the south!