yes they need more experienced players to fight for the title now now
but they have Henry,Gilberto,Lauren,Bergkamp*,Ashley cole*,Lehmann,Sol Campbell*

Why add bergkamp and campbell. U mite as well add pires, viera, parlor,suker, kanu

well they were there, players are not bought to wear and tear benches  , they watch and trained with these experienced players and now they get the chance to play! u want them to watch n learn till they grow grey hair?

Footballer are people who are paid to play football week in week out 

_{u saw the (*) didnt ya?}

2) Everybody applaud him when he does Right, he is a good man but i wont be stupid to call him he is god when he is not.

he is not a god but a very good coach at least he does not jump around and blabber a lot like some

[quote ]
4) If for wenger maybe he will be bus conductor in freetown, you are not serious at all. What club does he play for prior to Arsenal?
[quote ]

did i say he wasnt playing for any team before he joined arsenal?
he became well known when mr wenger started playin him,
he was playing for ksk beveren before

pssst i don't hate

Notice how the thread starter mr objective himself shy away from mentioning his own team 

To Nairaland-Gunners, he is a believer and developer of youths but to me he is very good  manager of resources.

isnt he a believer and developer of youths? stop comparing him, u keep point at "nairaland-gunners" this n that

a very good manager will manage resources by actually using the players that have been playing the academy in 1st team competitive matches 

LoverBwoy:


1) Atleast he's bringing them in young and [size=14pt]cheap!![/size]

2) Ask West ham what chelsea's done to their youth team

1) Cheap, no wonder 3 years ago , he was paying my African brother £4000 a week while he paid mediocre french players better.

2) We dont even deal with Hammer's youth team. We are no thief. We bought players from their first team; Lampard (£11m), Joe Cole (£6m) etc

mukina2:


did i say he wasnt playing for any team before he joined arsenal?
he became well known when mr wenger started playin him,
he was playing for ksk beveren before

Well known by Mukina2 i think.

He plays not for a team in cotonou, a Belgian first division team that once paraded Nigeria's Peter Rufai.

One Gunner eve says Alexander Hleb is not known. A belarus international since 2001 and a Bundesliga player.

akola when i meant well known i mean that he is internationally known

i never knew him and so do most people but when he came to arsenal under mr wenger he is
catch my drift

LoverBwoy:


Notice how the thread starter mr objective himself shy away from mentioning his own team

Am i Objective?

I try to be but i am no near perfection.

When its Chelsea, i will comment but this is no Chelsea thread.

mukina2:

i never knew him and so do most people but when he came to arsenal under mr wenger he is
catch my drift

Speak for yourself madam.

Did you know Drogba before Chelsea?

1) Cheap, no wonder 3 years ago , he was paying my African brother £4000 a week while he paid mediocre french players better

well maybe if "my african brother" had a good agent that wasnt converting the money back to his currency he would get paid more- maybe he knew what he would gain playing for a team like arsenal and do u know his current salary.

We don't even deal with Hammer's youth team. We are no thief. We bought players from their first team; Lampard (£11m), Joe Cole (£6m) etc

nobody accused chelsea of stealing, they lazy though, you bought players that were developed by others! Glen Johnson 


Getting a player from a youth team to join your club so they can grow with it is better than buying them when they "graduate" and make them sit on the bench to grow with the club.

@ Akola this is off topic a bit, lets not start thowing accusations of stealing here o

if not why is Bates reporting chelsea to the FA for trying to 'steal' 2 players from their youth academy? one of them is Taiwo, can'te remember the other

and is it not the stealing chelsea that went and contacted a player (ashley cole) behind the club's back?

back to the subject matter- wenger is a believer in youth, and he develops their game from just good to world class afterall, how many teams would believe arsenal would have gotten to the CL finals with senderos, eboue, flamini, fabregas, van persie, reyes and djourou playing most of the games? most managers except a few like fergie would ever be able to get rid of a world class player like vieira or silvinho to allow youngsters like cole and fabregas into the 1st team at such tender ages. that my friend is a belief in youth and a strong youth development policy

FYI youth development doesn't mean the player was 'born in the dressing room of the club and delivered by the coach' like the claims someone made about man utd that their youth players were "always united"

taking on young players (any player below 21 in my opinion) and bringing them to maturity is my definition of development and wenger has done that.

I have my grouses with mr wenger too anyways, i will mention them later, but on this current issue, i think wenger has excelled.

LoverBwoy:

1) well maybe if "my african brother" had a good agent that wasnt converting the money back to his currency he would get paid more- maybe he knew what he would gain playing for a team like arsenal and do u know his current salary.

2) nobody accused chelsea of stealing, they lazy though, you bought players that were developed by others! Glen Johnson


3) Getting a player from a youth team to join your club so they can grow with it is better than buying them when they "graduate" and make them sit on the bench to grow with the club.

1) What is the essence of playing for Big team ;Arsenal, chelsea etc and end up being penniless. I will always appreciate Uche Okechukwu for this. big team ko! big team ni!!.
Of what benefit is it going to be if i live in Abroad for 5 years and come back home peniless but with stories of how Canary Wharf is?
How much is he earning now?

2) Glen like Joe Cole is a good player in West Ham, they were relegated and we went there with our Cheque only to make them England International within months.

3) Even though i dont want to discuss Chelsea in this thread but i will clarify for you.
(1) How regular is Abu Dhabi in Arsenal?
(2) Why is Theo Walcott have to wait for 7 months to play for you?
(3) Why is he playing only 10 minutes in your matches?

come on man i thout u can actualy be a coach or have been one before

big team ko! big team ni!!.

I hope Mikel obi wont be saying that afterwards
the tag stays with you and your value increase "former arsenal, former chelsea . . it's business mate

how regular is mikel obi in chelsea? how regular is rossi? You cant rush good things mate, with all the media frenzy and jealous players out there ready to give him a "warm or rather cold" welcome tackles

why isnt messi used in all argentinas match or even barca. . . u gotta do your own bits,

[size=8pt]only to make them England International within months. [/size]

chelsea fans have come again o

debosky:



1) if not why is Bates reporting chelsea to the FA for trying to 'steal' 2 players from their youth academy? one of them is Taiwo, can'te remember the other

2) and is it not the stealing chelsea that went and contacted a player (ashley cole) behind the club's back?


3)FYI youth development doesn't mean the player was 'born in the dressing room of the club and delivered by the coach' like the claims someone made about man utd that their youth players were "always united"

taking on young players (any player below 21 in my opinion) and bringing them to maturity is my definition of development and wenger has done that.

4) I have my grouses with mr wenger too anyways, i will mention them later, but on this current issue, i think wenger has excelled.

1) It is complete fabrication. Baba Bates is already in hot water for making racist comment on Mr Roman. Lets wait for FA verdict on it.

2) In accordance with football code of conduct, our approach to Ashley is wrong but what of your Beveren's issue as well.

3) With a very deep sense of humility,I am not accepting your use of FYI for me on something i know so much about. say that to football nonentity.

4) [size=14pt]I WILL BE EXPECTING YOUR THREAD ON THAT but i am sure No Gunner in the house will do that [/size]

LoverBwoy:


I hope Mikel obi wont be saying that afterwards
the tag stays with you and your value increase "former arsenal, former chelsea . . it's business mate

how regular is mikel obi in chelsea? how regular is rossi? You can't rush good things mate

I am not going to say anything on Mikel now but dont forget what you people says of Mikel.

Compare it with what Jackal says even though he is a United fan.

yea you too dont forget what people say about wenger he is a good developer/believer in youth coming through

er compare to what he says, i dont know which 1 in particular?

how regular is mikel obi in chelsea? how regular is rossi? You can't rush good things mate

yes o, all those 10 people he listed had to wait their turn and ply their trade in reserves n bench league YOU CANT RUSH GOOD TEAM MATE!

I am not going to say anything on Mikel now but don't forget what you people says of Mikel.

You dont want to talk of your own mercenaries team?

Chelsea basically spoiled football, now its all about the money , when coaches like Fergie and arsene brought players through the ranks now they been forced to abadon that tradition and buy quick fixes. . .CAN U BELIEVE THEY ARE STILL TAPPING PLAYERS N BUYING THEIR WAY THROUGH JUST BUILD A BLOODY ACADEMY OR maureeno dont like moaning lil kids that cant fake a dive?

@AKola

Why do u call a manager a manager?

The name obviously implies what he's supposed to

irrespective whether he develops them or steals them from other academies as you guys say,

he has been able to produce the desired effect which is winning and building a familiar and entertaining pattern,

Don't get me wrong i'm not saying he's better than fergie, they are different in their trade,

you guys all know that Arsenal play entertaining football with the slick passing of the ball.

I believe Wenger has done a good job in terms of managing with the little resources he has, of course not mentioning the waste on Francis Jeffers, (that was a very bad deal)

The team that went unbeaten in 47 games was not as expensive as chelseas team under ranieri,

If he has built a reputation for himself as stealing young talents well good for him, fergie's good alright interms of developing players through manchester united youth system, but its all good,

I still like him

As for your reservations akola, u better still reserve them

aloka i knew drogba and i know he used to play for maiselle better than he does for chelsea
hsve you forgotten that the french ligue 1 is also popular?
i wont say i knew eboue before cuz that would be lyin
i have never watched te belgian league before

@ pie1ect,
Its people like u that gives the gooners a bad name.
Ferguson second to Wenger in youth development? I am having a laugh.
How many players have graduated from Arsenal's youth academy to become world stars under Arsene Wenger? NIL.
Henry and Vieira already featured for France in the world cup '98 before they joined Arsenal so don't go there.
It only shows u lack football knowledge at the global level when u mentioned Theo Walcott that already featured for Southampton.
I wont be surprised if u think Wenger taught Walcott the skills he currrently displays.
Ferguson took a class of youth academy in 1992 to win titles after titles in England.
David Beckham, Nevilles, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes, Wes Brown, Ryan Giggs, Kieran Richardson and a host of others.
Wenger is a distant 2nd to Alex Ferguson when it comes to player development.

Jackal, you love abusing people about their lack of knowledge yet you display yours in the very same paragraph.

Look at the sentence in bold. Did you just guess this?

I beg before acting all that you better check yourself.

How can I even listen to anymore statements from you after this folly?

If u av young playas who wer dicovered at d age of 12-14 in a team's academy n ar developed. In d process dy bcome gud playas and eventually play 4 d seniors of dat team! Dats wat i call developing playas!!!

Bt if u go to oda peoples academy n buy dia young playas (15-18) wit peanuts, u bring dm to ur academy n continue ur process of developin dm! No b una gt dat playa! No b 4rm una academy!.

4me o!! Man utd has a far far beta academy dan arsenal.
All wat arsenal does is dat dy catch dm young wen dy c dy av potential. Who says if dose playas stay in dia team, dy wunt bcome gud playas dy are now!.
For example, real madrid signed a 10yr old boy because he shows stunts wit d bal. Dy signed him into dia academy. If dat boy eventually bcomes a gud playa! Dat boy wil b known as a playa lik giggs neville or rooney (if he was stil in everton), terry, n so on; who came out 4rm a gud academy owned by a club!!

If u av young playas who wer dicovered at d age of 12-14 in a team's academy n ar developed. In d process dy bcome gud playas and eventually play 4 d seniors of dat team! Dats wat i call developing playas!!!

Bt if u go to oda peoples academy n buy dia young playas (15-18) wit peanuts, u bring dm to ur academy n continue ur process of developin dm! No b una gt dat playa! No b 4rm una academy!.

4me o!! Man utd has a far far beta academy dan arsenal.
All wat arsenal does is dat dy catch dm young wen dy c dy av potential. Who says if dose playas stay in dia team, dy wunt bcome gud playas dy are now!.
For example, real madrid signed a 10yr old boy because he shows stunts wit d bal. Dy signed him into dia academy. If dat boy eventually bcomes a gud playa! Dat boy wil b known as a playa lik giggs neville or rooney (if he was stil in everton), terry, n so on; who came out 4rm a gud academy owned by a club!!

Seems like another war is about to break out, but well who cares?

@Akola

I purposely kept out of this initially just to assess the reactions of others to this thread of yours since you had promised to launch it since although i thought you could do better accordingly i promised to launch on mourin-hole too but due to disablement of new posting i have not been able to do so, well wait for it!

And what is the big deal about criticizing your own coach? I will gladly call any gaffer's bluff no matter whose axe is gored

What is this obsession you have about Nairaland_Gunners, that even when its uncalled for you keep pointing fingers at us, i can remember that thread on ''Terry or Gerrard for captainship of England'', u did the same thing there, haba, softly softly but even then i had said earlier on that every club loves to bear the tag of ''the most loathed club'' so bring it on, no shaking , it only goes to show how important we are in the scheme of events of the EPL despite coming fourth last season

@Topic

Mr Akola, can you please tell us who you can really describe as a good developer?
It seems i will really need to get your definition first before i can really expantiate any further?!

@ Akola I apologise for the FYI, it was not meant as an insult

as to the Beveren issue, we were cleared of all wrong doing, it is ot unlike the relationship Man Utd has with some S/african clubs. we have never been proven to be underhanded in our activities, clubs just want to make a profit off arsenal cuzz they feel if we're interested, the player must be really good.

I will launch my thread soon, watch out for it.

jackal- i think it is a misconception that fergie's fledglings were responsible for the success of man u in the nineties. this is complete and utter bollix. sure they were essential parts of the team but look closely.

1993- giggs comes to the forefront (as does lee sharpe, i believe). apart from that, it was the old team pretty much with bruce, pallister, irwin and paul parker i think, even bryan robson got a look in. the catalyst for winning the league though was cantona as well as orgasm-worthy performances by kanchelskis.

1994- cantona again. andy cole is signed from newcastle. i think neville g, scholes and butt made their debuts here. andy coles goals fire you to the title.

1995- cantona gives a crystal palace fan a hurricane kick a la ryu and ken and gets suspended for god knows how many months. man u win nothing.

1996- eric's back you win the double with him as captain. beckham comes to the fore with his wondergoal. the fledge

1997- eric's last season. you win the league again. the fledgelings along with solskjaer and cole help greatly.

1998- post eric and with roy keane injured. arsenal win the title.

3 of your first four titles had nothing to do with the players you mentioned. even your glory years had nothing to do with them as the principle stars. except maybe beckham's deadly crossing which was essential to your style of play.

secondly, ferguson struck lucky with those youngsters. its not something that he can ever replicate, just like ajax can't win the european cup with a bunch of little boys again. (and oh by the way you want to talk about poaching, fergie poached giggs from man city). the fact that you have to cite players like richardson, who will soon be shipped to bolton or blackburn says a lot.

ok so i know this didnt make sense but im tired and helping someone with algebra homework online. so forgive me. but god i love debates like this

welcome suprted and thanks for the very insightful explanations

**claps for super ted**

Thanks for at least shedding some more light on fergies 'youth development' credentials.

Its obvious that Wenger would rather stick with a youthful team (sometimes infuriatingly), refusing for the most part to buy 'experienced players', but rather continuing to develop and mature players into finished articles. that is what i believe he is best at, and in doing that he is better than fergie

in sheer numbers of players brought through the youth system, fergie may be ahead, but that can be attributed to so many factors

1) he is british (albeit scottish)

2) most if not all of his career hs been in a particular geographical area, leading him to have a preference for 'British' players - with a few exceptions of course

3) the 'sheer luck' factor as explained by superted above.

I won't go further with comparisons i think being a 'manager of resources' as akola puts it involves being prudent, choosing young players u can mold into exactly what u want, and doing it your own way

thats what he does and he's very good at it.

I hereby suspend myself from further comments on Arsenal and Mr Wenger.

Thank you all.

@ suprted,
It is a fact that Ferguson's fledglings were responsible for Man Utd's success throughout the 90's.
The bulk of the United team in the 90's graduated from the youth team and there's a telegraphic understanding amongst them which made the team strike the fear of the Lord in other English clubs.

92/93(The 1st premiership season)---Ryan Giggs came through the youth ranks and formed a good partnership with the likes of Cantona to win the title.

93/94 season------This season saw United winning the double for the 1st time(The Premiership and the FA cup) which was aided by the capture of Roy keane.

94/95 season -------Cantona received an 8-month suspension ban but United were still runners-up in the FA and the Premiership. Not good enough but it wasn't a bad season as well. This was the year Ferguson outraged the fans by selling the old players and replacing them with the likes of the Nevilles, David Beckham and Paul Scholes.

95/96 season--------With Ferguson's fledglings in the team, United won the double again.

96/97 season----------United won the Premiership yet again with the army of his youth academy and Cantona announced his retirement.

97/98 season---------Arsenal claimed the double.

98/99 season-------The most succesful season in English club football history was won by the bulk of Ferguson's fledglings. United became the 1st and the only English team to win the treble. David Beckham was highly instrumental to this feat as his 2 corner-kicks won the UEFA trophy for United. Giggsy's goal against Arsenal in the FA S/finals of the same season was voted as the best goal ever scored in the 120 something years old club competition.
Ferguson was also knighted for his services in football.

99/2000 season----------United continued their dominance and won the Premiership.

2000/2001 season-------------Anutha Premiership title was added. Man United won the title for 3 consecutive seasons and this record hasn't been broken till date in the Premiership and the fledglings were largely responsible for the amazing success of the team.

In contrast to your analysis, the glory years were made possible by the likes of David Beckham, Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs who were the engine room in the midfield and supply quality and sublime passes to Cole/Yorke partnership.
Ferguson's lil' boys (10 pounds net worth) won the title back to back for 3 seasons and contributed largely to the glory days.
No team is yet to match this feat and if at all Jose achieves this, he would have done so with the highest-paid mercenaries in the world with the likes of Didi Drogba, Andriy Shevchenko, Shawn Wright Phillips, Michael Essien (100 million pounds net worth) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


@ debosky,
Never make the mistake of calling a Scottish a British.
U could get punched in the face.

Sheer luck cannot win any team 3 consecutive league titles and a treble.
It was hard-work, uniformity and telegraphic understanding of players that have played together for so long.
If it was sheer luck then Wenger should have at least struck luck once and won a back to back league title as well.
Being Scottish has nuthing to do with this success especially when people like u think English players don't worth a dime compared to other European countries.
Wenger can also go to the French league and catch 'em young.

if you look, i said that of all the fledgelings, beckham was the most essential to the team. and granted scholes must be one of the most underrated players ever, however i still maintain that ferguson struck lucky with that side. and there were other young players in the side that never made it with united like dion dublin and robbie savage (who actually was in the youth team with becks, giggs and scholes). however, the fact remains that if you look closely, while they couldn't have won it without them, fergie still had to buy the essential components. in the team that played bayern in 1999 only 4 players came through the youth team- becks, giggs, butt and nev g. granted scholes was suspended but if he had played, butt wouldn't. on the bench you had nev. p and brown. so in a team of 18 players, you had 6 who you developped. hmmm.

all i am saying is that if ferguson was directly responsible for the magnificent harvest of the 90s, then surely he could replicate it. the fact that you guys are splashing the cash now says a lot. it was a huge slice of luck to have them all come out at the same time. just like van gaal was lucky that kluivert, davids, seedorf, the de boers and so on all came to the forefront at the same time.

In a team of 18 players Fergie developed 6?
Can u compare that to Wenger's developmental schemes?

Ferguson can still replicate this feat but football has gone past that stage.
It takes time to have young players coming through like that to achieve domestic and European success and fans are too impatient these days.
Fans demand instant success these days and no one is really interested in who comes through the youth system as long as u can bring immediate success to the club.
For instance, Chelsea must have bought about 200 million pounds worth of players since the Roman revolution simply because Chelsea simply wants the UEFA trophy and domestic dominance. That says a lot about modern football.
Look around u and check the number of managers that have been sacked in the last few years all over Europe- this shows how impatient how club executives/ fans get in the modern era.
What do u think brought about this crazy metamorphisis?
Ferguson will achieve this feat once more if the club can give him 5-6 years to develop the brilliant players in his youth academy BUT that'll be unacceptable to the army of fans out there.

well, lets see. in our CL final team we had

lehmann- nothing

eboue- signed from our feeder club Beveren which counts as an aspect of our youth development. its easier to send players like eboue there because belgium is more lenient re. work permits.

toure- not sure

campbell- nothing

cole- from youth

ljungberg- nothing

pires- nothing

fabregas- signed from barcelona juniors where everybody was too busy drooling over messi to pay attention to cesc. played 2 seasons in our youth side. if he was in spain, he most likely would not have played in the world cup this year, so i take it we had an impact on his development.

gilberto- nothing

hleb- nothing

henry- was second fiddle to ikpeba at monaco, was rubbish at juve. wenger made him the player he is today.

ill be the first to admit that this is tenuous at best. but i have a question, how many players at manchester united are better than when they first came? compare that to arsenal.

In your Champions League final which u never won.
United won theirs and thats a major difference.
Nevertheless, Arsene still has just 1 player in the CL final as far as ma own analysis goes.

Arsene Wenger has nuthing to do with Eboue's development.
Eboue was a graduate of Jean-Marc Guillou's academy in Abidjan which was attached to ASEC Mimosas.
It was from there he went to K.S.K. Beveren and played for 3 seasons before signing for Arsenal in January 2005.
So are u telling me Wenger developed Eboue in less than 2 years to play in the Champions League final?
Puh-leaaase, lets be realistic. U cannot put Eboue in your developed players.

Kolo Toure's move to Arsenal is ditto to Eboue's
U cannot count him as one of Wenger's creations as well.

Cesc Fabregas started his career at FC Barcelona B(reserve team) before Arsenal signed him in mid 2003.
Prior to Cesc signing for the gunners, he took part in the 2003 FIFA U-17 Championship winning the golden shoe as the tournament's top scorer and the golden ball as the tournament's MVP.
In this manner, one can say Fabregas would still have been what he is even if he had signed for Enyimba of Aba.
Wenger's influence is minimal as far as Fabregas is concerned so count him out as well.
Fabregas/World cup invitation shows the way other countries see the Premiership as the top league in Europe.
Weren't u surprised the PREMIERSHIP provided the highest number of players in the world cup?
There were load of shitty players who made the world cup just because they play in the Premiership.

In conclusion, Wenger's only bred player is surprisingly Ashley Cole in 11 years.
Its an achievement anyways but its a far cry compared to Ferguson's success with his youth academy.
Talking about youth academy players, i think u should concentrate on players that spent 3-5 yrs in the youth academy before breaking into the 1st team like Scholes, Ashley Cole, Beckham and Giggs etc and NOT players that were already cooked/half-cooked in other youth academies before joining Arsenal.


******* We have tons of players that played better with United than when they first came.
Louis Saha, Cristiano Ronaldo, Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Rio Ferdinand, Gabby Heinze, Wayne Rooney, J S Park and i can just go on and on.