Image123:


Are you saying that you are sometimes selfish? Well, not every reward has to be selfish or self driven. I know a good doctor as it were. He's faithful, diligent, kind and helpful. He does the extra and is easily the best doctor every year. He is not doing it for nothing. He does it because it gives him satisfaction and of course respect and money. Is he wrong? What makes him wrong if so?

Now you want to reconcile an occupation with morality

Acekidc4:
A frnd of My Dad who is a Religion Philosopher was arguing with my Dad n some of their frnds that being an Atheist does not mean"anything goes"- infact, quite the opposite. What do you think? Can Morality be Independent of GOD? Can people who don't believe in GOD still be as"Good" as those who do? What govern your own decision about whether and how to act Ethically?

I personally gather that many people believe that Atheism implies Nihilism- that rejecting GOD means rejecting Morality. A person who denies GOD, they reason must be, if not actively Evil, at least indifferent to considerations of Right n Wrong.

Now to my questions Nairalander's.
(1)Where does Morality comes from?
(2)What guides your thinking about how to act?
(3)Do you choose to act Morally mostly because of the promise of Reward or the threat of Punishment- from GOD or from some other Authority. Do you agree contrary to what some believe, living your life ethically is even more important if you are an Atheist, since if you do something Morally Reprehensible there is no God to forgive you, and the only value your life has is the Choices you make?

Macof, Sukkot, Tallesty, Mizmycoli, Ymodulus, Seun, Xcapizt, pastorkun, Kay17, Joseph1013, Virginfinder, Truthman2012, Malvisguy212. Come oh!!! Abeg come contribute!!!

it is because of lack of righteousness that make us not to obey the commandment of God,your good deed cannot save you that why Jesus became sinner so that I can be made righteous,bible say we are dead in sin and made alive in Christ.
A young ruler approach Jesus in mark 10:18;
◄ Mark 10:18 ►
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus
answered. "No one is good except God
alone.
Jesus has two nature,flesh and the spirit of God, he don't want to comperd the nature of flesh and that of God.he want the young ruler to understand his message.

Only God is good, and if you believe in Jesus Christ you becomes adopted sons of God and you will be good.
John10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said YOU are "gods"'?

Acekidc4:


Itz is totally nt wrong my frnd bt itz unacceptable either because if I based my good deeds on Something in return den itz nt a good deed in d first place.

Unacceptable by who, when, why?

McSterling:
That's what the Bible says, right? One of its many attempts at vitiating man in order to glorify god. Fortunately, the Bible is wrong on that note. Man can both be inherently good and inherently bad.

Okay, your word against the Bible's word. Who should we believe and why oh?

johnydon22:

Imagine the biased mind.. He believes man can be inherently bad but no inherently good.. Just to glorify an idea that yet is man's

Funny enough, the Jewish God who is supposed to be the quintessence of goodness isn't even as good as the average man. In fact, how many "bad men" would command the killing of infants? Yet he says we're not good no matter what we do and so he must kill his own son to make us good enough.

Image123:

There is none good, no, not one.

Well i'm the exception

johnydon22:

oh yes we all clearly know that.. Stop pretending you dont know what the guy meant buddy, thats deception.

I read sentences, not minds. His sentence clearly says who. Who do you think is inherently good between the two?

johnydon22:


Now you want to reconcile an occupation with morality

No, at all. His deeds are mentioned ;kind, faithful, helpful. Some other doctors carry on their occupation without these deeds.

cold:

Well i'm the exception

Interesting. The only good man/boy. So, how good are you, how do we know you are good? What is your yardstick for measuring?

Image123:

Unacceptable by who, when, why?

Guy pls don't argue wit a biased mind ok!! Itz crystal clear n u knw it bt u re just tryin to twist d mata!! A good deed is a good deed wen u do it frm ur heart witout strings attached while a good deed is nt a good deed wen it has something attached!!

johnydon22:


You did not do it for nothing, you did for everything and that is helping out a fellow human and you did it because you found it to be good and right.
You did not do it because you want reward after...
It is a real noble thing to do and it is inherent goodness born out of goodwill for goodness sake

Oh yes I did it 4 nothing in return,e.g rewards, favours!! Ow abt dat!!

Clearly, Christians on this forum turn people to atheist. Following this argument from both side you can clearly see difference between the two groups. You guys are making mockery of yourselves and Christianity.

Bill and Melinda Gate are spending millions of dollar to fight diseases in Africa yearly especially in Nigeria where we equally have many very rich religious institutions who don't even give a damn. These guys don't even believe in God.

debosky:


So this fella is still alive? I thunk you had been taken away like brother Enoch.

lmao debosky how far now ?

Hiswordxray:

Oh! that is why the world is filled with good people.
But wait the world is not filled with good people...

My friend you can't say human nature is good but the other brother is more correct:

Yes everybody instinctively knows what is good and bad (as a result of Adam eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil).

But the problem is human do not have the instincts to actually do good. We have the knowledge but the ability to do good is lacking so we struggle and push ourselves to always to good. And religion has help by providing rewards and punishment that will motivate us to do good. But this (religion) is also not the solution to the problem.

Our knowledge of good makes us desire to do good but we always fail because we lack the life (the power or ability) to always do good. It is like a Chicken trying to fly like an eagle. It may succeed in flying very high but it can never fly like a eagle

We humans lack what it takes to truly be good. Do not misunderstand me, I am not saying we can not be good but we can't truly be good. Just as a chicken could fly but it can never fly like an eagle.

I have come to realize that every good a person do their is always a selfish motive behind it even when it comes to empathy (trust me I study psychology). Sometimes we do go just to make ourselves feel good about ourselves or to boost our ego and for the sake of self presentation ( make people see us as good people).

We do not do good because it is who we are but their is always a selfish motive behind every good we do. This is because being good is not human nature, we only have the knowledge of good and lack the life to always do it.

The solution is Christ, for he is the life. With Christ in you, you have the ability to always be good. But just like an eagle learn to fly we also need to learn to live by the life of Christ. This learning is different from gathering knowledge of good but it is to help us tap into the life of God in us.

God alone is good. He alone is expert in doing good by living by His life we have the ability to always be good.

The problem is that Christianity have because a religion, it had chosen the wisdom of men, it only knows how to give knowledge and it doesn't know how to give life and teach people to live by that life.

I do good not because of reward or punishment but because it is the only thing I know how to do, it is who I am. This is how it is suppose to be.

i hear all that bros but the question was IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD, and the answer is YES IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD, never mind the motivation. just because a person believes in God does not make them morally superior to someone who doesnt believe in God, in fact you will find out that the ones who believe in God are the most evil. so the ability to be good or bad has nothing to do with your belief in God. if you were a wicked person before you found God-more than likely you will be a wicked christian. if you were a nice person before you found God then more than likely you will be a nice christian. it is not your belief in God that changes your character, it is your absolute dedication to God that changes your character.

sukkot:
lmao debosky how far now ?

Oga mi, I salute u Sir!! Ow ur Night?

sukkot:
i hear all that bros but the question was IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD, and the answer is YES IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD, never mind the motivation. just because a person believes in God does not make them morally superior to someone who doesnt believe in God, in fact you will find out that the ones who believe in God are the most evil. so the ability to be good or bad has nothing to do with your belief in God. if you were a wicked person before you found God-more than likely you will be a wicked christian. if you were a nice person before you found God then more than likely you will be a nice christian. it is not your belief in God that changes your character, it is your absolute dedication to God that changes your character.

Thank u so Much 4 dis Explanation. Can u Kindly pls explain dis to Image123 sir. He seems to be Sentimental n Biased toward dis Issue!!

Acekidc4:


Thank u so Much 4 dis Explanation. Can u Kindly pls explain dis to Image123 sir. He seems to be Sentimental n Biased toward dis Issue!!

see my friend. You cannot be good without God, have you ever love your neighbours as your self? Do you love God with all your mind?if you love your neighbours as your self, you will never do harm to them meaning you are good, for you to have all this you NEED the righteousness of Christ to be implanted in you.in the old testament if a priest come close to the ark of God he will die, bible say our unrighteousness is as filthy as rages.

In His Sermon on the Mount,
Jesus uttered these words: “You
therefore must be perfect, as your
heavenly Father is perfect” ( Matthew
5:48).In Matthew 5:20, Jesus says
that, if His hearers want to enter into the kingdom of heaven, their righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, who were the experts in the Law.

Obeying the law is more than simply abstaining from killing, committing adultery, and breaking oaths. It’s also not getting angry with your brother, not lusting in your heart, and not making insincere oaths. At the end of all this, we learn that we must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, and that comes from being perfect.ARE YOU PERFECT? Billgate gave billions of dollar to African children even when we don't know what is motive are,he acted good but at the end of the day his righteousness must exceed that of the teachers of the law.

malvisguy212:
see my friend. You cannot be good without God, have you ever love your neighbours as your self? Do you love God with all your mind?if you love your neighbours as your self, you will never do harm to them meaning you are good, for you to have all this you NEED the righteousness of Christ to be implanted in you.in the old testament if a priest come close to the ark of God he will die, bible say our unrighteousness is as filthy as rages.

In His Sermon on the Mount,
Jesus uttered these words: “You
therefore must be perfect, as your
heavenly Father is perfect” ( Matthew
5:48).In Matthew 5:20, Jesus says
that, if His hearers want to enter into the kingdom of heaven, their righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, who were the experts in the Law.

Obeying the law is more than simply abstaining from killing, committing adultery, and breaking oaths. It’s also not getting angry with your brother, not lusting in your heart, and not making insincere oaths. At the end of all this, we learn that we must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, and that comes from being perfect.ARE YOU PERFECT? Billgate gave billions of dollar to African children even when we don't know what is motive are,he acted good but at the end of the day his righteousness must exceed that of the teachers of the law.

If we understand the difficulties and challenges we all face, we will learn to treat each other with more tolerance, love and care.

Oga ur belief in anything be it yahweh or allah doesnt make you good, your behaviour does..

Bill gates clearly have more revere and compassion towards his fellow humans than pastors who are only interested in extorting money.

I dont even see why you guys are arguing about this...

malvisguy212:
see my friend. You cannot be good without God, have you ever love your neighbours as your self? Do you love God with all your mind?if you love your neighbours as your self, you will never do harm to them meaning you are good, for you to have all this you NEED the righteousness of Christ to be implanted in you.in the old testament if a priest come close to the ark of God he will die, bible say our unrighteousness is as filthy as rages.

In His Sermon on the Mount,
Jesus uttered these words: “You
therefore must be perfect, as your
heavenly Father is perfect” ( Matthew
5:48).In Matthew 5:20, Jesus says
that, if His hearers want to enter into the kingdom of heaven, their righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees, who were the experts in the Law.

Obeying the law is more than simply abstaining from killing, committing adultery, and breaking oaths. It’s also not getting angry with your brother, not lusting in your heart, and not making insincere oaths. At the end of all this, we learn that we must exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, and that comes from being perfect.ARE YOU PERFECT? Billgate gave billions of dollar to African children even when we don't know what is motive are,he acted good but at the end of the day his righteousness must exceed that of the teachers of the law.

I beg to disagree Sir!! Why can't I be good without GOD!! Why must it be d Motivation or influence of God b4 I Realized wat is good or Bad!! I kill sum1 nw , must I wait 4 any Bible or God to tell me wat I did is wrong!! Even my conscience n heart will tell me itz wrong!!

johnydon22:


If we understand the difficulties and challenges we all face, we will learn to treat each other with more tolerance, love and care.

Oga ur belief in anything be it yahweh or allah doesnt make you good, your behaviour does..

Bill gates clearly have more revere and compassion towards his fellow humans than pastors who are only interested in extorting money.

I dont even see why you guys are arguing about this...

are you a good person? Do you love your neighbours as your self? Will you lay your life for the people you love?

Image123:

No, at all. His deeds are mentioned ;kind, faithful, helpful. Some other doctors carry on their occupation without these deeds.

sir please leave someone else's work ethic and occupation in this...

Give me an example with general morality that has nothing to do with profession or occupation.

malvisguy212:
are you a good person? Do you love your neighbours as your self? Will you lay your life for the people you love?

I certainly will lay down my life for my family to live (People i love)... I must say the questions you ask here are clearly unnecessary... I consider the feelings of others in everything i do so yes i do love my neighbours. I do love every human on earth thats what it means to be a humanist.

Acekidc4:


I beg to disagree Sir!! Why can't I be good without GOD!! Why must it be d Motivation or influence of God b4 I Realized wat is good or Bad!! I kill sum1 nw , must I wait 4 any Bible or God to tell me wat I did is wrong!! Even my conscience n heart will tell me itz wrong!!

I want to know who am arguing with, are you an atheists? Do you believe in God?

malvisguy212:
I want to know who am arguing with, are you an atheists? Do you believe in God?

What does it matter if he is a believer or not?

johnydon22:


I certainly will lay down my life for my family to live (People i love)... I must say the questions you ask here are clearly unnecessary... I consider the feelings of others in everything i do so yes i do love my neighbours. I do love every human on earth thats what it means to be a humanist.

What do you mean "people I love"? meaning your love has limit

johnydon22:


What does it matter if he is a believer or not?

oh yes, it matter most.

malvisguy212:
What do you mean "people I love"? meaning your love has limit

The people i love, my family, my country, africa and humanity... if loosing my life will keep my family, my country, africa or humanity safe then my life is just a little price to pay bro...

malvisguy212:
oh yes, it matter most.

Such diversity is the problem with mankind...

johnydon22:


The people i love, my family, my country, africa and humanity... if loosing my life will keep my family, my country, africa or humanity safe then my life is just a little price to pay bro...

does this mean you love everybody you have ever come in contact with? Even your atheists friends knows you are not telling the truth.

johnydon22:

Such diversity is the problem with mankind...

what the need of accusing someone that does not exist? That how satan trick eve;


Another reason for rejecting God (choosing atheism), is a willing acceptance of satanic deception.
The angel Lucifer (“luminous one”) fell
and became Satan (“adversary”) due to
his desire to supplant God. This was
Lucifer’s single-minded obsession.
He not only rejected God by attempting
to supplant Him, but he urged humans
to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God for her own self-fulfilment:
He said to the woman, “Did God actually
say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the
garden’?” And the woman said to the
serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the
trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the
serpent said to the woman, “You will not
surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:1-5 ESV).

The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s
statements, then, contradict God’s
statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.

This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to
make statements in the first place, so
God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to
have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self.

This satanic deception appeals strongly
to atheists as it bolsters two of their
desired delusions: 1) absolute autonomy —being free to do as they please, and 2) the lack of ultimate accountability—there are no eternal consequences for doing as they please.

malvisguy212:
does this mean you love everybody you have ever come in contact with? Even your atheists friends knows you are not telling the truth.

lolzzz... i suggest you find out what being a humanist is all about..
Radiate boundless love towards the entire earth, undiminished by diversion, race, religion or orientation... we all deserve love
@The bolded is a plain assumption, its an obvious fallacy..
anyway please enough dabbling into my private life style, can we discuss the issue at hand without personal questions cus i wont answer such questions anymore my brother.
And please dont get emotional cus we atheist/agnostics or humanists only do not share ur beliefs, we are not ur enemy.

malvisguy212:
what the need of accusing someone that does not exist? That how satan trick eve;


Another reason for rejecting God (choosing atheism), is a willing acceptance of satanic deception.
The angel Lucifer (“luminous one”) fell
and became Satan (“adversary”) due to
his desire to supplant God. This was
Lucifer’s single-minded obsession.
He not only rejected God by attempting
to supplant Him, but he urged humans
to do likewise. Satan urged Eve to choose against God for her own self-fulfilment:
He said to the woman, “Did God actually
say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the
garden’?” And the woman said to the
serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the
trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You
shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the
serpent said to the woman, “You will not
surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Genesis 3:1-5 ESV).

The tactic is clear: firstly, question God’s
statements, then, contradict God’s
statements and, finally, urge rebellion in seeking equality with God.

This manifests in atheists as
1. Questioning whether there is a God to
make statements in the first place, so
God did not say anything.
2. Contradicting the statements said to
have been spoken by God.
3. Seeking equality with God by replacing God with the self.

This satanic deception appeals strongly
to atheists as it bolsters two of their
desired delusions: 1) absolute autonomy —being free to do as they please, and 2) the lack of ultimate accountability—there are no eternal consequences for doing as they please.

Now where did all this come out from?
Please you are starting to take this thread out of contest.
Kindly open a thread for the above and we will be more than happy to come and address it.
Lolzzz now the guy is getting emotional... we are not even arguing the existence of any deity here so can you stick to the thread?
We never made any claim that any deity said anything, the bible and the koran made that claim and we are here to refute it.
Now lets continued with the thread at hand my brother...Hope you went to church tho..