Rilwayne001:


You should browse the thread, I would have love to add more to them but its like you are not ready for a reasonable debate just like the other robots on this thread.



Agreed

[quot Uthman had as much right as anyone to compile a holy book.

Yes, but anyone who is not an eye witness does'nt have the right to compile an holy book because definitely their will always be the mixture of truth, fabrication, fables, tales, hearsay and above all it will be inconsistent I have shown you up there about the Quran "…… Anyhow when I finished writing,he would say, 'Read!' and I would read it back to him. If there was an omission or error he used to correct it and then let it be brought before the people." Mu'jam Al-Tabarani Al-Awst, Hadith 1913. Dar al-Haramain, Cairo, 1415 AH I see no reason why you should quote me to display such ignorance again. The writer of mattew, Luke, John, Mark, are either not an eye witness or they are anonymous **refer back to empiree points about them in page (1) *** hence, the reason for its contradictions and inconsistencies or you want to claim otherwise? Aside that, these writer were not the compiler of the bible. In actuality, the Bible was VOTED to be the word of God by a group of men during the 4th century about 400years after Jesus. Costantine who was the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity, needed a single canon to be agreed upon by the Christian leaders to help him unify the remains of the Roman Empire. Until this time the various Christian leaders could not decide which books would be considered "holy" and thus "the word of God" and which ones would be excluded and not considered the word of God.

After all, people reject Ali (according to Lagoshia)as a companion. I did my research after Empiree was playing me "wayo" with islam.

Irrelevant.

Rilwayne001:


He was banned by antispammbot on the religion section i think, anti-spambot can only ban someone from commenting on a particular section and not on NL as a whole. Are you new here?



Stop asking questions like a primary 3 student, read the thread and stop been ignorant.



Are you an atheist? agnostic?

malvisguy212:
where in the quran it say "the bible/scripture is corrupted? "

You say anyone who is not an eye witness does not have the right to compel a "holy book" we the christians say this men were inspired by God himself, but if we are to agree with you, how did muhammed compel the quran? Is muhammed an eyewitness when God created the world? Was he around when God created the world? MUHAMMED WAS NOT AN EYEWITNESS WHEN ALLAH CREATED THE WORLD YET HE WROTE IT IN THE QURAN AND YOU BELIEVE HIM.
You see how when you used logic to explained the nature of God failed you?

Empiree:
Mr. man, you now seem to be suffering from brain dysfunction. You dont make any sense. You love to systematically digress point being raised here. First all, this quote in blue was written by allnaijablogger.(see attached pix) Why did you embed the quote in rilwayne's? Are you trying to be smart?. I dont blame you. You Christians have been doing that lately including naijablogger himself.

This is the quote:

After all, people reject Ali (according to Lagoshia)as a companion. I did my research after empiree was playing me "wayo" with islam.

Second, we dont need your "tafisr". If you and others think there is fake Quran somewhere, kindly bring it forward. We know already there are different bibles by different authors. "holy spirit" nonsense!

malvisguy212:
how is this an answer to my question? Where in the quran it say the bible/scripture is corrupted?

Empiree:
Honestly, i am so bored reading from you lately. Havent we cited verses several times from Quran and hadith that your Bible is very badly corrupted?. If i call you 'robot' now you gonna say it's an insult. You are very lazy. Go back to previous pages where i made the allegation. And it's not only on this thread. Rilwayne and others have said the same thing over and over. But you act like robotic machine.

malvisguy212:
quote it for me let me see it .

author=malvisguy212 post=31278431]the gospel/injil is corrupted and they supported it with quranic verse, but in the days of muhammed ,he accepted the gospel as the word of God

and Allah ask the muslims to MAKE confirmation in the scripture and injil,why will Allah ask them to make confirmation on a corrupted book?he vow to guide his word, meaning the scripture and injil which muslims claimed is corrupted is the WORD of Allah, dosent this mean Allah fail to guide his word as promise in the quran?

The same quran that Allah ask the Muslims to confirmed the truth in the scripture say the same scripture is corrupted. [s]It is either Allah or muhammed is confused.[/s]

Rilwayne001:




Stop asking questions like a primary 3 student, read the thread and stop been ignorant.

Empiree:
I may have to give up on you but i will give you second chance. Before i return here, kindly answer this question pending my return: Do you think that when God says He "sent down" or "revealed" Holy Books, it means God throws the Books from heaven and his prophets catch them?

malvisguy212:
when waraqa died, what's make the revelation pause? Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3 Narrated 'Aisha:
......" But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for while. ...

joseph1832:


I read the thread Mr man and I asked a simple question. If you can't provide answer(s) to the questions asked, please refrain from quoting me.

Empiree:
@ bold, since you agreed that prophet muhammad(s.a.w) accepted Gospel, then why dont you believe in him and Quran?. Why do you hate him and rainy curses on him if he accepted Gospel?. Read below.....

The Hadith (sayings and actions of Prophet Muhammad in Islam) as well point out to Biblical Corruption. Consider these hadith:

Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture (Jews) used to recite the Torah in Hebrew and they used to explain it in Arabic to the Muslims. On that Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture or disbelieve them, but say:-- "We believe in Allah and what is revealed to us." (2.136) (Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 12)


Narrated Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!" (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)

Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah: 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas said, "O the group of Muslims! How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about anything while your Book which Allah has revealed to your Prophet contains the most recent news from Allah and is pure and not distorted? Allah has told you that the people of the Scriptures have changed some of Allah's Books and distorted it and wrote something with their own hands and said, 'This is from Allah, so as to have a minor gain for it. Won't the knowledge that has come to you stop you from asking them? No, by Allah, we have never seen a man from them asking you about that (the Book Al-Qur'an ) which has been revealed to you. (Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 614)


The first hadith is saying that as long as the Torah agrees with the Quran, it is to be believed however if the Torah doesn't agree with the Quran then it is not to be believed. Some Christian apologetics only quotes the third Bukhari Hadith #614 to point out that Islam doesn't have anything to say about Biblical corruption. But this hadith too is saying that the Bible is corrupt. When it says changed some of Allah’s books, it means the Torah, Psalms and the Gospels and that the Bible is not reliable and Muslims shouldn't go to the people of the scripture since their books are now distorted. Also pay attention to the hadith #461 I quoted. The hadith states that the Jews AND the Christians had distorted and wrote the scripture with their own hands that was given to them. In other words their books were not the same ones given to Moses and Jesus and that’s what the Quran 3:3 is speaking about… the original books of Prophets Moses and Jesus which we clearly don’t have today.


You don't understand what Qur'an is saying because your brain is suspended between heaven and earth.

As for why did previous Holy books like torah and Gospel not protected, now pay attention to this because i know you've been throwing this question around saying no muslims can answer it. If after this answer you keep asking again, then am done with you on it. Let me rephrase your question. It's something like this, correct?

Why did Allah preserve the Quran and allow His earlier books of divine revelation to be changed or lost?

The answer to that question lies in the following three facts:

The earlier prophets and their books were sent to a particular people in particular periods of history. Once the period ended, a new prophet was sent with a new book to replace the previous book. So, it was not necessary that these books be preserved by Allah. The preservation of the earlier books was left up to the people as a test for them. Thus, when the people went astray, they changed what was written in the books which their prophets brought in order to make allowable the things which were forbidden to them. In that way, all of the earlier books of revelation became either changed or lost.

Now, take a look at the essay I posted earlier about different authors of the Bible, sound familiar?. Even you can not deny that Bible scholars have faulted your Bibles. Read further below....

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last prophet whom Allah sent, and he was not sent to a particular people or a particular time. He was sent to all of mankind until the end of the world. Allah said in the Quran,

"I have only sent you (Muhammad) as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most men do not understand." [Noble Quran 34:28]

Thus, his book of revelation, the Quran, had to be specially preserved from any form of change or loss so that it would be available to all the generations of man until the last day of the world.


Scholars of the Bible say the Bible has been badly edited and corrupted over time

Critical scholars today are generally in agreement that the sources of the Pentateuch were 4 separate documents written in different times by different authors. These source documents were called the J (Jehowah/Yahweh), E (Elohim) D (Deuteronomic), and the P (priestly), documents. Internal evidence shows that “J” originated from the southern kingdom of Judah and was the earliest to be documented around 900BC; “E” was written in the northern kingdom of Israel probably about a century or so later. The “D” document is dated to about 700BC. The documents were then combined into one by the priesthood, who added their own “Priestly” tradition to it, during the Babylonian exile (after 560 BC). We are not concerned here with the basis of this theory as our purpose is simply to show that it could not have been written by Moses-a fundamentalist bedrock belief. For more on this read Anderson, A Critical Introduction to the Old Testament.

The gospels are not eyewitness accounts

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

Some scholars say so many revisions occurred in the 100 years following Jesus' death that no one can be absolutely sure of the accuracy or authenticity of the Gospels, especially of the words the authors attributed to Jesus himself.
-Jeffery L. Sheler

Even the Biblical book of Jeremiah clearly states that the scribes of the ancient Israelites altered the revealed scriptures given to the Israelites by Allah, and thus changed them “into a lie”.

[size=15pt]" 'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8 New International Version)[/size]

Anymore questions.........?

Rilwayne001:


Did the revelation stop after his death?

malvisguy212:
1.believing in the bible don't make you child of God even the devil believe in Jesus.

2.rilwayn say someone who is not an eyewitness has no right to compel a holy book, you quote the hadith to prove to me the bible is corrupted,the writer of the hadith is not a eyewitness,according to rilwyn we will not trust it.

3.the quran made it clear that the injil and the torah are WRITTEN document,if it not written then how will the people be able to observed the law ?how will it possible that all copies be vanished without anyone holding the original?

4.you said it was not necessary the earlier scripture been preserved but the quran say other wise;The Quran makes this claim:" Verily, we have sent down the Reminder, and, verily, we will guard it. Q15:9"the remander is the scripture
And Allah promise to guide it.

5.jerimaih was not talking about the scripture ,it was talking about the law.

malvisguy212:
read my post again.I say "why did it pause?

Rilwayne001:


Which means you are not a child of God? come to think of it, you believe in Jesus, satan also believe in jesus, so whats the difference between the 2 of you?



Compile not compel

Yes, some hadiths cannot be trusted just like the bible, they both consist the mixture of truth, lies, inconsistencies, and fables. But the hadith is more substantiated than the bible been the fact that it can be scrutinized with the Quran, some writers of the hadiths were eyewitness while that the bible were not, **you can prove to me they are** The compiler of the hadiths though was compiled some 300years after the prophet (pbhu), the chain of distribution can still help in determining how real they are. While in the case of the bible, the writers are unknown and the compilers compiled it some 400years after jesus and they did just compile it, they had to cast VOTE to determined what the gospel of jesus looks like.



Robotic comment.



Surah Al-Hijr, Verse 9:
Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Quran) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption).
(English - Mohsin Khan)




What is the difference between the. scripture and the law?

Rilwayne001:


I asked a rehtoric quwstion. Did the revelation stoped after the death of Waraqa?

malvisguy212:
African man, answering a question with a question.
Were in my post I say the revelation stop? What make it pause? Give the reason. Simple as that.

Rilwayne001:


Am I God to determine the reason?

Waraqa died 3 years after he met the prophet.

The prophet received revelation for the next 20years after the death of Waraqa.

So what point are you trying to drive out here

malvisguy212:
and you created a thread asking silly question,"if Jesus read the bible"

If muhammed was an eyewitness,Doe this mean he was an eyewitness when God created the world?

Dos not this tell you that,that is how this men in the bible were inspired?

But muhammed contradicts the teaching. Why will God Wait for soo long before he send muhammed to correct there teaching?

malvisguy212:
Waraqa died and the revelation pause. Maby waraqa is the angel Gabriel.

Rilwayne001:


Robot. are you pained?






List this men please and tell us the book they wrote. kindly start from the old testament.



Maybe the answer will surface when you tell us the reason why Jesus hasnt intervened in the confusion in christianity.

Rilwayne001:


Waraqa died 3years after he met the Prophet.

Yet, the prophet received revelation for the next 20 years after the death of Waraqa. stop being robotic

Rilwayne001:






Maybe the answer will surface when you tell us the reason why Jesus hasnt intervened in the confusion in christianity.

malvisguy212:
the simple question is this; why the revelation pause? Or waraqa is the angel that why the revelation pause?

malvisguy212:


If you want to know this men,you are not ban to search the internet

PastorKun:


The same reason why allah hasn't intervened in all the confusion, hate, terrorism and evil in islam which as made his religion to be the biggest problem in the world today.

malvisguy212:
[size=4pt]1.believing in the bible don't make you child of God even the devil believe in Jesus.
2.rilwayn say someone who is not an eyewitness has no right to compel a holy book, you quote the hadith to prove to me the bible is corrupted,the writer of the hadith is not a eyewitness,according to rilwyn we will not trust it.
3.the quran made it clear that the injil and the torah are WRITTEN document,if it not written then how will the people be able to observed the law ?how will it possible that all copies be vanished without anyone holding the original?
4.you said it was not necessary the earlier scripture been preserved but the quran say other wise;The Quran makes this claim:" Verily, we have sent down the Reminder, and, verily, we will guard it. Q15:9"the remander is the scripture
And Allah promise to guide it.
5.jerimaih was not talking about the scripture ,it was talking about the law.[/size]