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Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? - Politics (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Chigold101(m): 2:51pm On Mar 07, 2015
Well Seun i think am kind of dispointed with some of the comments you make and also with this post.

What is human right abuse in a war situation?
Seun if someone sends u a video where one of the mods of nairaland being beheaded by him and you and the person slitly missed killing u after killing another of ur mod, if u sees that person in the dark what will u do?

Let us place ourselves in the shoes of these soldiers who live in peril everyday because of BH.

Conventional war may have rule but gorilar war does not have.
The USA & their wife UK, are just simply being funny.

The USA have troops in Iraq bt ISIL is growing per second.

What have USA done to stop ISIS?
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Seun(m): 2:52pm On Mar 07, 2015
Firefire:
JNigeria is known for lengthen court cases and unending trials: A Case study of 'Reverend Kings'
That's no excuse for murdering suspects some of whom may be innocent or may have been coerced. The president can easily fast-track court cases that he considers to be important, by setting up special courts that are well-funded to prosecute the terrorism cases more efficiently.

the conspiracy that radicalized Boko-Haram through that your mentioned theory, is still a mystery.
The police killed the founder of Boko Haram after capturing him. They brought him out and shot him dead. After that happened, Shekau took over the leadership of the sect and turned it into a full-blown terrorist organization. That unjust execution gave them the moral high ground.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 2:54pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun:

Thanks for this key piece of info. I don't really trust the source though. I'd be more comfortable with a foreign source like BBC or Economist.


Assuming the story is true, you are absolutely right. However, I can't find any other source for the story. Not even Sahara Reporters.


So only the BBC and the CNN say the truth?

Were the BBC and CNN not the media houses that showed us images of iraqis nuclear, chemical and biological weapons?

Then where were the alleged weapons during and after the war the overthrow of Saddam Hussien?

Nigerians and slave-master relationship.

1 Like

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 2:56pm On Mar 07, 2015
vedaxcool:


True, they figured that giving a mad man cut lass is a recipe for disater!
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 2:58pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun:

That's no excuse for murdering suspects some of whom may be innocent or may have been coerced. The president can easily fast-track court cases that he considers to be important, by setting up special courts that are well-funded to prosecute the terrorism cases more efficiently.


The police killed the founder of Boko Haram after capturing him. They brought him out and shot him dead. After that happened, Shekau took over the leadership of the sect and turned it into a full-blown terrorist organization. That unjust execution gave them the moral high ground.


So they would taken the founder to court and later freed him like oguche?

Maybe take him to court the way america and her allies took saddam hussein, chemical Ali, gadaffi, osama ben-laden, etc to court.

1 Like

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:00pm On Mar 07, 2015
American drones are flying across the world killing people as they want and like, rightfully so. Yet these same group, want to hang human right abuse on a Nigerian army captain receiving direct fire from inside a mosque and decides to fire back.Women hiding weapons covered up in their religious attire, been subjected to enhanced modified security searches. angry angry angry angry


The Americans will NEVER hold any of their soldiers to the same conditions they want our men held.

3 Likes

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by BodyKiss(m): 3:01pm On Mar 07, 2015
jusRadical:



So in the time of war, you arrest and try?

So you will take the person caught smuggling guns for boko haram to court?

People like you are worse than the boko men.

The problem with people like you is that you lack value for human lives. Problem with condoning behaviour like this is that it can be abused, which we know our military personnel for, that's why there's legal process for every crime.

You justify the amputations and killing of women because of fire-arms possession right, and you think I am worse than boko haram?

1 Like

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Chigold101(m): 3:02pm On Mar 07, 2015
Few days ago Netanyahu was in the US to speak to joint section of the congress, why? Because USA & Obama administration is planning to support Iraq nuke production. Iran is known for their human right abuse.

The USA said our soldiers are weak & afraid.

Their plans are failing them already, soon they will starte with another form of propaganda.

Since Nigerian soldiers started winning the war over insurgency, how many times have u seen it make news headlines in CNN as it was making when we were losing?

We should forget the USA, we dont need their weapons anylonger.

We have resorted in buying from China, Rusia, Pakistan etc...

2 Likes

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:03pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun:

That's no excuse for murdering suspects some of whom may be innocent or may have been coerced. The president can easily fast-track court cases that he considers to be important, by setting up special courts that are well-funded to prosecute the terrorism cases more efficiently.


The police killed the founder of Boko Haram after capturing him. They brought him out and shot him dead. After that happened, Shekau took over the leadership of the sect and turned it into a full-blown terrorist organization. That unjust execution gave them the moral high ground.



Oh! I forgot. America should send us the judge that judged all those detained without trial at guatenama bay.

1 Like

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Ikwokrikwo: 3:03pm On Mar 07, 2015
Where did the US try Osama Bin Laden?
Dumb thread
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:08pm On Mar 07, 2015
Ikwokrikwo:
Where did the US try Osama Bin Laden?
Dumb thread

In the deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep sea, where sharks were the judges.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:09pm On Mar 07, 2015
The US slaughtered 1.5 million Iraqis based on a pack of lies about non-existent WMDs. Not one US official has been tried for that massacre and fraud till date. To hear them talk of human rights is like a sick joke. Those who believe them are irredeemably dumb and gullible.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:10pm On Mar 07, 2015
Chigold101:
Few days ago Netanyahu was in the US to speak to joint section of the congress, why? Because USA & Obama administration is planning to support Iraq nuke production. Iran is known for their human right abuse.

The USA said our soldiers are weak & afraid.

Their plans are failing them already, soon they will starte with another form of propaganda.

Since Nigerian soldiers started winning the war over insurgency, how many times have u seen it make news headlines in CNN as it was making when we were losing?

We should forget the USA, we dont need their weapons anylonger.

We have resorted in buying from China, Rusia, Pakistan etc...


My brother do not mind them. Why is the US government keeping the contents of their nuclear deal with Iraq secret? For me, countries must learn to stop running to america as a big brother. They can't even protect Ukraine.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:14pm On Mar 07, 2015
ROSSIKE:
The US slaughtered 1.5 million Iraqis based on a pack of lies about non-existent WMDs. Not one US official has been tried for that fraud till date. To hear them talk of human rights is like a sick joke.


Is it not maddening? They were quick to fight sadam, gadaffi, osama, but are slow in fighting ISIS with no boots on ground theory.

Did it not a kurdish man to make global appeal when those kurdish christians ran to the mountain tops because of isis before the US could send their planes?
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:14pm On Mar 07, 2015
ROSSIKE:
The US slaughtered 1.5 million Iraqis based on a pack of lies about non-existent WMDs. Not one US official has been tried for that fraud till date. To hear them talk of human rights is like a sick joke.

I can deal with the American hypocrisy, what has baffled me, has been their Nigerian megaphones.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:15pm On Mar 07, 2015
ROSSIKE:
The US slaughtered 1.5 million Iraqis based on a pack of lies about non-existent WMDs. Not one US official has been tried for that fraud till date. To hear them talk of human rights is like a sick joke.


Is it not maddening? They were quick to fight sadam, gadaffi, osama, but are slow in fighting ISIS with no boots on ground theory.

Did it not a kurdish man to make global appeal when those kurdish christians ran to the mountain tops because of isis before the US could send their planes?
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Firefire(m): 3:16pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun:

That's no excuse for murdering suspects some of whom may be innocent or may have been coerced. The president can easily fast-track court cases that he considers to be important, by setting up special courts that are well-funded to prosecute the terrorism cases more efficiently.

I agree with you 100% government do not have any justification to kill or take laws into their hands. (We do not have such incidence)
Thinking in the right direction, as you suggested, the government should look in the direction of setting up a special courts that will be well-funded to prosecute cases of terrorism outside our normal, snail speed courts.

You will recall that Dr. Goodluck Jonathan gave the same directive to the Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice Alooma Mukhtar as of 17th July 2012.

What went wrong? We should ask Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice Alooma Mukhtar

President Goodluck Jonathan on Monday advised the new Chief Justice of Nigeria, Justice Alooma Mukhtar to confront the challenges ahead as the foremost judicial officer in the country.

He said, “I am confident that you will quickly settle down to work and commence the urgent task of reforming and repositioning the judiciary for effective and efficient discharge of constitutional mandate.

“Your Lordship will preside over the judiciary at a time of profound challenges that demand united response. We believe that judiciary can play a crucial role as we confront critical challenges.

“We are dealing with security challenges occasioned by sporadic act of terrorism in some parts of the country. The three arms of government must work co-operatively to overcome these terrorists’ threats and acts in the country.

“The war against corruption is another endeavour that calls for concerted action by all arms of government. I am confident that the judiciary under your able leadership will rise up to the challenge and provide the most needed support for government to address these challenges.

“I believe that an independent judiciary remains the final hope of our citizen.” - Dr. Goodluck Jonathan - 2012

see the Chief Justice response:

But speaking with State House correspondents shortly after the ceremony, Mukhtar ruled out the possibility of establishing special courts to try cases of terrorism.

“I talked about that at the Senate that there is no need for a special court. A judge, two or three in the states can be designated to take care of that (trial of terrorism cases),” she said



http://www.punchng.com/news/tackle-terrorism-corruption-jonathan-urges-mukhtar/
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:17pm On Mar 07, 2015
atlwireles:


I can deal with the American hypocrisy, what has baffled me, has been their Nigerian megaphones.


Do not mind them. They think that the US loves them. But they are wrong. America is only for her selfish and self-centred interest.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:18pm On Mar 07, 2015
atlwireles:
American drones are flying across the world killing people as they want and like, rightfully so. Yet these same group, want to hang human right abuse on a Nigerian army captain receiving direct fire from inside a mosque and decides to fire back.Women hiding weapons covered up in their religious attire, been subjected to enhanced modified security searches. angry angry angry angry


The Americans will NEVER hold any of their soldiers to the same conditions they want our men held.
Exactly. Remember when a US general in Iraq was asked how many Iraqi civilians had been killed by US troops? His reply? "We don't do body counts''. These are the same monsters lecturing us on human rights? Their hypocrisy stinks to high heavens.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by CyberTerrorist: 3:21pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun and Gbawe2, where were you when USA was slaughtering millions of Iraqis on assumptions of WMD? Where is the WMD today? You guys are just pathetic angry angry angry angry..Spits on useless thread sad sad angry angry

1 Like

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:21pm On Mar 07, 2015
ROSSIKE:
Exactly. Remember when a US general in Iraq was asked how many Iraqi civilians had been killed by US troops? His reply? "We don't do body counts''. These are the same monsters lecturing us on human rights?


Can you imagine the number of civilians and innocent people killed by the american drones in the last 2 years?
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Chigold101(m): 3:24pm On Mar 07, 2015
jusRadical:



My brother do not mind them. Why is the US government keeping the contents of their nuclear deal with Iraq secret? For me, countries must learn to stop running to america as a big brother. They can't even protect Ukraine.
as it stands right now Nigeria & USA are just pretending to be friends. Nigeria learnt their lessons in a bitter way...
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by CyberTerrorist: 3:26pm On Mar 07, 2015
The OP ran away from his thread grin grin grin
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Firefire(m): 3:27pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun:

The police killed the founder of Boko Haram after capturing him. They brought him out and shot him dead. After that happened, Shekau took over the leadership of the sect and turned it into a full-blown terrorist organization. That unjust execution gave them the moral high ground.

Even if the human being has been escaping the long arm of the law, extra judicial killing of Yusuf is condemnable.

But his followers have no moral right to result to killing, maiming and involving in barbaric acts. That is simply an act of terrorism & must be condemned by all.

http://www.vanguardngr.com/2009/07/boko-haram-leader-yusuf-killed/
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:29pm On Mar 07, 2015
atlwireles:


I can deal with the American hypocrisy, what has baffled me, has been their Nigerian megaphones.
Many Nigerians are hardwired to see the Americans as morally superior etc. They are hypotized by America's economic success. They can't see the deep and massive globalised corruption perpetrated by the US which underlies that success.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Gbawe2: 3:31pm On Mar 07, 2015
CyberTerrorist:
Seun and Gbawe, where were you when USA was slaughtering millions of Iraqis on assumptions of WMD? Where is the WMD today? You guys are just pathetic angry angry angry angry..Spits on useless thread sad sad angry angry

Have you seen me argue here that the USA is a human rights champion or human rights 'Police' of the world? Frankly I don't hold such views. George Bush, for example, is a war criminal in my opinion. I was an active blogger before the period leading to the Iraq war and I wrote passionately about WMD (weapons of mass destruction) being just an excuse for Bush and Blair, post 9/11, to criminally invade Iraq and topple a figurehead proponent (Saddam ) of the "axis of evil".

Read what I wrote again and you will see I make it clear that the issue of the USA failing to help Nigeria goes beyond the consideration of human rights abuse alone. The USA has always being able to 'live with' human rights abuse and 'collateral damage' if such is in her interest. Read below to see that the real issue is that the USA is not keen, any time soon, to help Boko Haram become the ISIS of West Africa. This is the real reason the USA will not be supplying Nigeria with powerful weapons. You guys, instead of just being emotional and angry, should follow events closer and view issues dispassionately. This way it will be obvious what all stakeholders are doing when they take certain decisions.

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/rift-between-us-nigeria-impeding-fight-against-boko-haram/200239/

Rift between US, Nigeria Impeding Fight against Boko Haram

27 Jan 2015


James F. Entwistle, the US Ambassador to Nigeria

Pentagon still considers Nigerian Army an important ally
Zacheaus Somorin with agency report
Relations between American military trainers and specialists advising the Nigerian military in the fight against Boko Haram are so strained that the Pentagon often bypasses the Nigerian military altogether, choosing to work instead with security officials in the neighbouring countries of Chad, Cameroun and Niger, the New York Times, in a report at the weekend, quoted US defence officials and diplomats as stating.

Major rifts like these between the Nigerian and American militaries have been hampering the fight against Boko Haram militants as they charge through North-eastern Nigeria, razing villages, abducting children and forcing tens of thousands of people to flee.

US Secretary of State, John Kerry, was in Nigeria on Sunday to meet with President Goodluck Jonathan and Major-General Muhammadu Buhari, the two leading candidates in the presidential election,[size=14pt] and the Pentagon said that the Nigerian Army is still an important ally in the region — vital to checking Boko Haram before it transforms into a larger, and possibly more transnational threat.

“In some respects, they look like ISIL two years ago,” Michael G. Vickers, the undersecretary of defence for intelligence, told the Atlantic Council last week, using another name for the militant group known as the Islamic State.

“How fast their trajectory can go up is something we’re paying a lot of attention to. But certainly in their area, they’re wreaking a lot of destruction.”
[/size]

But US officials are wary of the Nigerian military as well, citing corruption and sweeping human rights abuses by its soldiers. US officials have also been hesitant to share intelligence with the Nigerian military because they contend it has been infiltrated by Boko Haram, an accusation that has prompted indignation from Nigeria.

“We don’t have a foundation for what I would call a good partnership right now,” said a senior military official with the United States Africa Command, or Africom, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorised to speak publicly on the matter.

“We want a relationship based on trust, but you have to be able to see yourself. And they’re in denial.”

The US was so concerned about Boko Haram infiltration that American officials have not included raw data in intelligence they have provided Nigeria, worried that their sources would be compromised.

In retaliation, Nigeria in December cancelled the last stage of American training of a newly created Nigerian Army battalion.
There has been no resumption of the training since then.
Some Nigerian officials have also expressed dismay that relations between the two militaries have frayed to this point.

“For a small country like Chad or Cameroun to come to assist” the Americans, “that is disappointing,” said Ahmed Zanna, a senator from Borno State, the epicentre of the Boko Haram insurgency.

“You have a very good and reliable ally, and you are running away from them,” he said, faulting the Nigerian government. “It is terrible. I pray for a change of government.”

The tensions have been mounting for years. In their battle against Boko Haram, Nigerian troops were alleged to have rounded up and killed young men in northern cities indiscriminately, rampaged through neighbourhoods and, according to witnesses and local officials, killed scores of civilians in a retaliatory massacre in a village (Baga) in 2013.

Refugees said the soldiers set fire to homes, shot residents and caused panicked people to flee into the waters of Lake Chad, where some drowned.

But the allegations have been denied repeatedly by the military, which said the atrocities were committed by Boko Haram insurgents camouflaged in “stolen” Nigerian Army uniforms.

They have also pointed to the recent attacks on Baga early this month as example of the atrocities committed by the terrorists.
Last summer, the US government blocked the sale of American-made Cobra attack helicopters to Nigeria from Israel,
amid concerns about Nigeria’s protection of civilians when conducting military operations. That further angered the Nigerian government, and Nigeria’s ambassador to the United States responded sharply, accusing Washington of hampering the effort.

“The kind of question that we have to ask is, let’s say we give certain kinds of equipment to the Nigerian military that is then used in a way that affects the human situation,” James F. Entwistle, the US Ambassador to Nigeria, told reporters in October, explaining the decision to block the helicopter sale.
“If I approve that, I’m responsible for that. We take that responsibility very seriously,” he said.

All the while, Boko Haram has continued its ruthless push through Nigeria, bombing schools and markets, torching thousands of buildings and homes, and kidnapping hundreds of people.

Now stretching into its sixth year, the group’s insurgency has left thousands of people dead, the overwhelming majority of them civilians. It killed an estimated 2,000 civilians in the first six months of 2014 alone, Human Rights Watch said, and many of Nigeria’s major cities — Abuja, Kano, Kaduna — have been bombed.

US officials say that while it is unclear exactly how much territory Boko Haram effectively controls in Nigeria, the group is, at the very least, conducting attacks across significant parts of the North-east.

“They reportedly control a majority of the territory of Borno State,” in North-eastern Nigeria, “and a significant portion of the border areas with Cameroun and Chad,” said Lauren Ploch Blanchard, a specialist in African Affairs with the Congressional Research Service.

Even before the Nigerians cancelled the training programme in December, US military officials were concerned when soldiers showed up without proper equipment.

Given the nation’s oil wealth, the US attributed the deficits to chronic corruption on the part of Nigerian commanders, saying that they had pocketed the money meant for their soldiers.

“It’s not like they don’t have the money,” the senior Africom official said. “There are some things that we require to be good partners. The first of which is a commitment on the part of the Nigerian government to support its own army. They have a responsibility to provide adequate pay, to take care of their people, and to equip them.”

“None of those empty allegations have ever been proved,” said Chris Olukolade, a spokesman for the Nigerian military.

“The Nigerian military has always been receptive of honest support or assistance from well-meaning friends or partners. No one should however seek to use this security situation to usurp our sovereignty as a nation,” he added.

After Boko Haram made international headlines last April by kidnapping more than 200 schoolgirls, the US flew several hundred surveillance drone flights over the North-east to search for the girls, but those missions were unsuccessful.
When the Pentagon did come up with leads, American military officials said, and turned that information over to Nigerian commanders to pursue, they did nothing with it.

But this again was refuted by the Nigerian military as “patently false”.

The frustrations between the two sides have broad implications for the fight against Boko Haram, US officials said, including making it harder for other international partners who have joined the effort.

“We are trying to work closely with the French and the Americans in support of the Nigerian military and government against Boko Haram,” a senior British diplomat said.

“A rift between one of our two partners and the Nigerians is not a good thing.”

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:36pm On Mar 07, 2015
The US created Al Qaeda, and the US created ISIL. Without these mysteriously funded/powerful "terrorist" groups, the US could never take over Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen etc, plus others they're still planning to seize. They need an evil bogeyman that serves as their 'reason' for invading these countries and so they create and fund these groups either directly or through their allies like Saudi Arabia.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by atlwireles: 3:46pm On Mar 07, 2015
Gbawe2:


Have you seen me argue here that the USA is a human rights champion or human rights 'Police' of the world? Frankly I don't hold such views. George Bush, for example, is a war criminal in my opinion. I was an active blogger before the period leading to the Iraq war and I wrote passionately about WMD (weapons of mass destruction) being just an excuse for Bush and Blair, post 9/11, to criminally invade Iraq and topple a figurehead proponent (Saddam ) of the "axis of evil".

Read what I wrote again and you will see I make it clear that the issue of the USA failing to help Nigeria goes beyond the consideration of human rights abuse alone. The USA has always being able to 'live with' human rights abuse and 'collateral damage' if such is in her interest. Read below to see that the real issue is that the USA is not keen, any time soon, to help Boko Haram become the ISIS of West Africa. This is the real reason the USA will not be supplying Nigeria with powerful weapons. You guys, instead of just being emotional and angry, should follow events closer and view issues dispassionately. This way it will be obvious what all stakeholders are doing when they take certain decisions.

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/rift-between-us-nigeria-impeding-fight-against-boko-haram/200239/


Long story for nothing. Actions have spoken louder than words. The Nigerian army and the government placed their hopes on a partner that never was. Since the United states advise and counsel have been relegated to the dustbin, both in public and in private. The military action since January have progressed with a level of success not seen since 2012.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:54pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun and Gbawe please read this and tell me if the US took all these people to court.


41 men targeted but 1,147
people killed: US drone
strikes – the facts on the
ground
New analysis of data conducted by human
rights group Reprieve shared with the
Guardian, raises questions about accuracy
of intelligence guiding ‘precise’ strikes.

‘Drone strikes have been sold to the
American public on the claim that they’re
‘precise.’ But they are only as precise as the
intelligence that feeds them.’ Photograph:
Khaled Abdullah/Reuters
Spencer Ackerman in New York
@attackerman
Monday 24 November 2014 11.55 EST
The drones came for Ayman Zawahiri on 13
January 2006, hovering over a village in
Pakistan called Damadola. Ten months later,
they came again for the man who would
become al-Qaida’s leader, this time in Bajaur.
Eight years later, Zawahiri is still alive.
Seventy-six children and 29 adults,
according to reports after the two strikes,
are not.
However many Americans know who
Zawahiri is, far fewer are familiar with Qari
Hussain. Hussain was a deputy commander
of the Pakistani Taliban, a militant group
aligned with al-Qaida that trained the
would-be Times Square bomber, Faisal
Shahzad, before his unsuccessful 2010
attack. The drones first came for Hussain
years before, on 29 January 2008. Then they
came on 23 June 2009, 15 January 2010, 2
October 2010 and 7 October 2010.

Finally, on 15 October 2010, Hellfire missiles
fired from a Predator or Reaper drone killed
Hussain, the Pakistani Taliban later
confirmed. For the death of a man whom
practically no American can name, the US
killed 128 people, 13 of them children, none
of whom it meant to harm.
A new analysis of the data available to the
public about drone strikes, conducted by the
human-rights group Reprieve, indicates that
even when operators target specific
individuals – the most focused effort of
what Barack Obama calls “targeted killing” –
they kill vastly more people than their
targets, often needing to strike multiple
times. Attempts to kill 41 men resulted in the
deaths of an estimated 1,147 people, as of
24 November.
Reprieve, sifting through reports compiled
by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism,
examined cases in which specific people
were targeted by drones multiple times.
Their data, shared with the Guardian, raises
questions about the accuracy of US
intelligence guiding strikes that US officials
describe using words like “clinical” and
“precise.”
The analysis is a partial estimate of the
damage wrought by Obama’s favored
weapon of war, a tool he and his
administration describe as far more precise
than more familiar instruments of land or air
power.
“Drone strikes have been sold to the
American public on the claim that they’re
‘precise’. But they are only as precise as the
intelligence that feeds them. There is
nothing precise about intelligence that
results in the deaths of 28 unknown people,
including women and children, for every
‘bad guy’ the US goes after,” said Reprieve’s
Jennifer Gibson, who spearheaded the
group’s study.
Some 24 men specifically targeted in
Pakistan resulted in the death of 874 people.
All were reported in the press as “killed” on
multiple occasions, meaning that numerous
strikes were aimed at each of them. The vast
majority of those strikes were unsuccessful.
An estimated 142 children were killed in the
course of pursuing those 24 men, only six of
whom died in the course of drone strikes
that killed their intended targets.
In Yemen, 17 named men were targeted
multiple times. Strikes on them killed 273
people, at least seven of them children. At
least four of the targets are still alive.
Available data for the 41 men targeted for
drone strikes across both countries indicate
that each of them was reported killed
multiple times. Seven of them are believed to
still be alive. The status of another, Haji
Omar, is unknown. Abu Ubaidah al-Masri,
whom drones targeted three times, later
died from natural causes, believed to be
hepatitis.
The data cohort is only a fraction of those
killed by US drones overall. Reprieve did not
focus on named targets struck only once.
Neither Reprieve nor the Guardian examined
the subset of drone strikes that do not
target specific people: the so-called
“signature strikes” that attack people based
on a pattern of behavior considered
suspicious, rather than intelligence tying
their targets to terrorist activity. An
analytically conservative Council on Foreign
Relations tally assesses that 500 drone
strikes outside of Iraq and Afghanistan have
killed 3,674 people.
As well, the data is agnostic on the validity of
the named targets struck on multiple
occasions being marked for death in the
first place.
Like all weapons, drones will inevitably miss
their targets given enough chances. But the
secrecy surrounding them obscures how
often misses occur and the reasons for
them. Even for the 33 named targets whom
the drones eventually killed – successes, by
the logic of the drone strikes – another 947
people died in the process.
There are myriad problems with analyzing
data from US drone strikes. Those strikes
occur under a blanket of official secrecy,
which means analysts must rely on local
media reporting about their aftermath, with
all the attendant problems besetting
journalism in dangerous or denied places.
Anonymous leaks to media organizations,
typically citing an unnamed American,
Yemeni or Pakistani official, are the only
acknowledgements that the strikes actually
occur, or target a particular individual.
Without the CIA and the Joint Special
Operations Command declassifying more
information on the strikes, unofficial and
imprecise information is all that is available,
complicating efforts to independently verify
or refute administration assurances about
the impact of the drones.
What little US officials say about the strikes
typically boils down to assurances that they
apply “ targeted, surgical pressure to the
groups that threaten us,” as John Brennan,
now the CIA director, said in a 2011 speech.

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Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 3:58pm On Mar 07, 2015
Continued below.


“The only people that we fire a drone at [sic]
are confirmed terrorist targets at the
highest level after a great deal of vetting that
takes a long period of time. We don’t just
fire a drone at somebody and think they’re a
terrorist,” the secretary of state, John Kerry,
said at a BBC forum in 2013.
A Reprieve team investigating on the
ground in Pakistan turned up what it
believes to be a confirmed case of mistaken
identity. Someone with the same name as a
terror suspect on the Obama
administration’s “kill list” was killed on the
third attempt by US drones. His brother was
captured, interrogated and encouraged to
“tell the Americans what they want to hear”:
that they had in fact killed the right person.
Reprieve has withheld identifying details of
the family in question, making the story
impossible to independently verify.
“President Obama needs to be straight with
the American people about the human cost
of this programme. If even his government
doesn’t know who is filling the body bags
every time a strike goes wrong, his claims
that this is a precise programme look like
nonsense, and the risk that it is in fact
making us less safe looks all too real,”
Gibson said.



www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/24/-sp-us-drone-strikes-kill-1147

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Gbawe2: 4:11pm On Mar 07, 2015
@Topic.

My view is that , ultimately, Nigeria has to help herself and our Government has simply not done that enough in relation to Boko Haram. Of course the USA is self-serving and hypocritical but which nation of the world is not? The problem, as shown even by our discussion here, is that Africans are too sentimental and place all emphasis on feeling sorry for themselves and talking as if others owe them solutions while whining like victims instead of learning to play the game and taking responsibility for their own progress.

For example, The first outbreak of Ebola was in Sudan in 1976. The second major outbreak began in the Democratic republic of Congo (formerly Zaire) in 1995. Did Africans, the primary victims, learn from those outbreaks? Did we understand that we must try to produce a vaccine against this deadly disease capable of decimating large swathes of Africa if unchecked? Big NO !!! While we shirked our responsibilities like little kids and deferred our duties of developing a vaccine, Ebola has now returned devastatingly and all that irresponsible Africans can do is to blame the USA for not providing us with an experimental drug that does not even have FDA approval and takes ages to produce a small dose meaning the USA had to control 'stock' for when her own citizens may need such. That is how we Africans do things. We never take responsibility for our own problem and do not believe that charity begins at home enough to begin sincerely seeking African solutions for African problems. We must always blame others for our woes.

Similarly with our current terror predicament, we saw the Nigerian government make a complete mess of the Boko Haram issue because of politics of self-preservation and self-interest. Should we not be ashamed, when we are the victims, to now put everything at the door of the USA? How some have turned this conversation into a discussion focusing on the 'hypocrisy' of the USA , without looking at the deficiencies of our own leaders, is the perfect display of the irresponsible egotism of Africans that leaves us fiddling while the house burns down. Sometimes when I see the way Nigerians vehemently curse the USA, UK et al, in relation to our own self-created woes, I am reminded of how we have a long way to go in understanding that there is no free lunch in lif and that we must, above others, take responsibility for finding solutions to our own problems. Nigeria can defeat Boko Haram alone, without US or foreign help, if we are led by sincere men and women who truly value the lives and well-being of their people. As simple as that.
Re: Why Couldn't We Stop Human Rights Abuses To Get Better Weapons? by Nobody: 4:34pm On Mar 07, 2015
Seun, please have heard about president Obama's 'Kill List'?


Google is able to help you out.

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