macof:



nice input egbon.

obarese is the name of Oramfe's brother. and I think Ijugbe is the place in ife where he is worshiped

lawani:
Isnt everybody irunmale incarnate? We are all irunmale incarnate and all orisas are irunmales who are with special energies. Olodumare is an irunmale who rules from Ogotun as Olu Ogotun chairing a council of 401 irunmales, two hundred on the right and two hundred on the left. Then we cant pin down just one person and say the person is Obatala and Ogun. There were very many of them. The first Obatala spoken of in Ifa was a woman Oba, later down the line, Obatala was referred to as a woman but the energy is 'perfect government administrator'. A fun nini gba fun aini. O so eni kan di igba eni. Anire niwa, Aniwa nire. Iba o!. So you can not pin any orisa down to something that happened in Ile Ife around 15 centuries ago.

9jacrip:


Egbon mi, sleep don come but let me attempt a reply, I hope I am able to make sense with whatever I scribble.

Ifa contains spiritual tales (for spiritual purposes), Myth (for story purposes) & actual history with existing evidences recorded for history purposes. Everything woven together makes Ifa sturdy for divination yet fluid as an encyclopedia for general knowledge.

Although, I do not know who owns a deity's name first - the spiritual figure, the mythical figure or human figure? I am yet to unravel this part and this will go a long way in understanding a lot of things.

First Obatala in Ifa was a man, Oduduwa's brother that was robbed. Who was suppose to create the world; he who created people but messed both up from alcohol intoxication.

Along the line, in order to explain how the word is a calabash, Obatala became the woman - wife and Oduduwa became the man - husband. Oduduwa the first half of the calabash then Obatala the second half. Which makes it the second Obatala in Ifa.

The third Obatala was the man, Oseremagbo. Obamakin's big brother. The owner of Ade Are, the king of Iranje-Ideta Ile & Oko, Yeemo's husband, father of Ilesun & Ilale etc

I don't know who bore the name first but as with other figures like Orunmila, Esu, Osun, Oduduwa to mention a few - there are spiritual, mythical and human parts to their stories.

Baba's oriki that you cited was just a line from a long verse. From the same verse it also said 'Okunrin a sa'ra m'eegun' which goes to show Obatala was a 'he' in the human form.

One interesting thing to note is, prior to the Obatala human - Yeemo's husband, there was no Obatala worship anywhere recorded. It began after the passing of the Obatala of 15 centuries ago (like you said). The same is the case with all other deities.

Eruwadaaji.

ghostofsparta:

Do you mean Oramfe is Ile-Ife or Oramfe is in Ile-Ife ?
Jakuta as I understand from my past research would be classified as a 'TITAN' with divinistic attributes, who hauled boulders hence 'ja kuta' (one who fights by hauling huge boulders) has it ever crossed your mind that there must have existed enormous entities similar to the Greek 'titans' from your Ifa researches but our ancient Ifa folks has no way of translating to us in that way. I have data that points to the existence of giants or titans in ancient Yorubalands lending credence to outer-space earth-visitors theorists and writers such as Eric Von Daniken. I am beginning to agree with my hypothesis that Irunmoles are Titans and Orishas are Gods because I have researching for a long time the difference between the two.

9jacrip:


Egbon mi, sleep don come but let me attempt a reply, I hope I am able to make sense with whatever I scribble.

Ifa contains spiritual tales (for spiritual purposes), Myth (for story purposes) & actual history with existing evidences recorded for history purposes. Everything woven together makes Ifa sturdy for divination yet fluid as an encyclopedia for general knowledge.

Although, I do not know who owns a deity's name first - the spiritual figure, the mythical figure or human figure? I am yet to unravel this part and this will go a long way in understanding a lot of things.

First Obatala in Ifa was a man, Oduduwa's brother that was robbed. Who was suppose to create the world; he who created people but messed both up from alcohol intoxication.

Along the line, in order to explain how the word is a calabash, Obatala became the woman - wife and Oduduwa became the man - husband. Oduduwa the first half of the calabash then Obatala the second half. Which makes it the second Obatala in Ifa.

The third Obatala was the man, Oseremagbo. Obamakin's big brother. The owner of Ade Are, the king of Iranje-Ideta Ile & Oko, Yeemo's husband, father of Ilesun & Ilale etc

I don't know who bore the name first but as with other figures like Orunmila, Esu, Osun, Oduduwa to mention a few - there are spiritual, mythical and human parts to their stories.

Baba's oriki that you cited was just a line from a long verse. From the same verse it also said 'Okunrin a sa'ra m'eegun' which goes to show Obatala was a 'he' in the human form.

One interesting thing to note is, prior to the Obatala human - Yeemo's husband, there was no Obatala worship anywhere recorded. It began after the passing of the Obatala of 15 centuries ago (like you said). The same is the case with all other deities.

Eruwadaaji.

lawani:


We must understand that orisas are energies that can mount anybody showing in their character. Ogun for instance is basically Lakaaye, Iba o! Anybody that brought innovation that greatly enhances prosperity is Ogun Lakaaye. There are other aspects but Lakaaye I believe is the main. Osun is fertility. Obatala is good governmental administration and I believe women monarchs were more frequent in the past than today. There is a level of advancement in which women will be preferred to lead. I saw somewhere that in the odu of Obatala, the first mention was a woman, then down the verses, a man.

Orunmila is genuine concern for others. That is the energy. Jakuta is Justice or Vengeance and etc.

Then one thing we must know is that Oduduwa came 50 Kings ago and that the original was a minor imale who was wife of Obatala, to celebrate her, devotees have unhindered sex with other devotees in Awori. The man who came from Mecca, the descendant of Nimrod or Lamurudu was given that name by the oracle as it was the odu that emerged. That is my understanding. What we need to understand is that revisionism is rife and the Oduduwa group did some also. The fact staring us in the face is that Oduduwa is not a major orisa, a week day is not named after him. So he can not be compared to Obatala, Ogun and etc. I believe Sango as a name may be Tapa in origin as there are still people in the North bearing it as Zango andf etc.


We know that Ogun is osinmole, the first orisa to land on Earth as that is his oriki, Obatala set off but Ogun landed first, so where did Oduduwa come in. The Oduduwa is doubtless a late addition by Oduduwa's descendants. Ogun is the osinmole and the stories of Oduduwa vs Obatala were created probably in the 7th century.

9jacrip:



Your first line is brilliant sir (I am in no position to dissect your input but permit me to say that).

- Sir, Obatala isn't good government. He was mainly known for Bleep ups (Baba forgive me o!) despite being placed at the fore front of things. - creation story and Ife political history. His administration was bad that Oduduwa mutinied him with relative ease and consolidated upon it.

- What Odu is Odu of Obatala, please share. I know with 99.9% confidence that Obatala's Odu was Eji-Ogbe (many other Odus mentioned Obatala but Eji Ogbe was much more). In this Odu, apart from emphasizing the role of head/leadership (Obatala) there was no mention of Baba being female. How do I know this? Because the Odu that birthed me in Igbo Odu is Eji Ogbe.

- In a particular Odu explaining earth to be Igba-Iwa, Oduduwa was Husband and Obatala was wife. In another Odu explaining the birth of some other deities, Obatala was Husband and Oduduwa was Wife.

- I do not know how Oduduwa is worshipped anywhere else but in Ife such is not the case.

- You actually believe in the story of Lamurudu & Mecca when Oduduwa's settlement and relics are at Oke-Ora in Ife where coronation is done?

- Thank you for sharing knowledge on the Sango name, I've been pondering the meaning abd were it came from.

- Oduduwa is a major Orisa that has its day of the week known by the Isooro Oduduwa. His background and followership is extremely limited to family followership so much that non-family cannot be initiated into it. The circle is tight and little is revealed about him to non-members. Some Orisas are at the fore front of the day of the week like you said but other deities are grouped along each Orisa.

- I don't know about Obatala vs Odudwa being 'created' but verifiable facts abound to prove it indeed happened. These can be found in how Ile- Ife (not Ife) itself is divided, it isfound in the relics in Ooni's palace, it is found in the materials left behind by Obatala in his Iranje Oko palace at Igbo Ogbe, it is found in the history of Ilaje/Mahin in Ondo, it is found in the history of Idanre, it is found in the installation of the Ooni, it is found in the enmity between families in Ife. I don't know what you kean by 'created' sir.

lawani:


Incarnation is very important in Yoruba. There was Obatala of Ifon Osun, Obatala of Iranje and etc. So I believe there was an Obatala incarnate in Ife when the Oduduwa arrived. The man was recognised as Obatala just like a certain Esu was Alaketu, an Ajero was Ogun and etc but to say everything started only 51 Kings ago would be very wrong.


Why I believe Oduduwa came from Mecca is because the history says Mecca, Awujale history says Waddai, then Mecca is corroborated by the name Lamurudu which apparently was dropped by the Meccan himself as a form of id. Pre Mohammedan South Arabian monarchs identified as descendants of Nimrod, the way the Yoruba today identify as children of Oduduwa. The Lamurudu story is a concrete bit of evidence. Then there are other stories in Ife of Oranyan facing North with an army of invasion headed to cross the Niger towards Mecca. The Bariba massed against him and he camped there to establish Oyo

9jacrip:


The Mecca story has been thrown in the garbage of history for a long time. Many things are wrong with the theory and the periodization do not even coincide. The Arabs, known to be ardent record keeper have no history as such in their history - it is like the bibilical tale of Egyptian enslavement of the Jews & the peninsula crossing. Awujale's claim holds no water, that has also been thrown in the bin of serious history - Ijebus & Shagamu left Ife, their street is still at Ogboni land in Ife this very moment.

The tale of Oranmiyan facing north was Oyo/Johnson creation, we do not have that story in Ife sir.

Yes, incarnation is very important but nobody incarnates with their names. Orisa can possess someone with qualities of the Orisa like you rightly said.

The person worshipped in Ifon in Osun state is Ifon himself, Obatala's first son born to him by his wife Oje.

lawani:


51 Kings away can coincide with 7th century at just over 30 years per King and there is no other way to explain the Lamurudu account. that name is not even an orisa. it is just a name dropped as a form of id.

macof:

he dropped the name... were you there?
yet no yoruba traditional institution knows that name

it had to take Johnson, a man not grounded in Yoruba traditions and Muslims to speak of Lamurudu.
how come Ile-ife don't have a place for Lamurudu?

going to the Arabs. .. Arabs never saw themselves as descended from Nimrod

Stop believing everything you read

lawani:



Pre Mohammedan Arab monarchs saw themselves as descended from the Nimrod that was mentioned in the Bible, present day Arab monarchs who are Muslims do not. You need to read more and form informed opinions. Research who Nimrod was in South Arabian history before Mohammed came to usurp his position. You dont need to tell me to stop believing everything I read because I dont. I have a brain to analyse things and I dont just take everything hook, line and sinker. In schools, children are taught that Lamurudu is the father of Oduduwa, so Rev Johnson did not manufacture the name out of thin air. It was passed down.

You dont have a place for Lamurudu because the man never came to Ife, he was not a Yoruba man. I have never heard his name mentioned in Ifa. The name was merely dropped by the Meccan monarch who came from South Arabia. Ife is not the final authourity on anything. Their job is to keep the history they were left there to keep. It does not make them all knowing.

Were you there too? Your question is childish sir.

lawani:
Nimrod was not mentioned in the Quran even once. Can you quote where he was mentioned? So no chance of getting the name from Muslims. You can only get it from a South Arabian royalty.

When I was in Ilesa Grammar school in the 90s, we were taught that Lamurudu was the father of Oduduwa.

There is nothing special at all in Ife. A man was left there titled Ooni with the sole duty of coordinating the upkeep of the tradition of the first terrestrial civilization on Earth from when land rose above the waters. The story is kept in anthems and stories passed down from the very beginning to explain the origin of humans on Earth. Nothing more. I am a descendant of Ogun Ajero and it was my ancestors that left those people in Ife to be reciting anthems and tales for the purpose of keeping history. Nothing more than that.

macof:


whether quran mentions Nimrod or not. . that name is known in the Islamic world and rendered in Arabic as "Namrud" from where "Lamurudu" was derived....so it goes back to Yoruba Muslims

Pls just provide the evidence that pre muhammad Arab kings were descendants of Nimrod
in fact provide evidence Nimrod ever existed as a real man

do that and let's go back to the topic of the thread - Sango

lawani:
This Nimrod link on wikipedia is something you could have gotten by yourself. It shows clearly that Nimrod was the hero of those who lived before Christianity and Islam in South Arabia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod

According to Ronald Hendel the name Nimrod is probably a polemical distortion of the god Ninurta, a prominent god in Mesopotamian religion who had cult centers in a number of Assyrian cities such as
Kalhu , and also in Babylon , and was a patron god of a number of Assyrian kings. [27] Nimrod's imperial ventures described in Genesis may be based on the conquests of the Assyrian king
Tukulti-Ninurta I (Dalley et al., 1998, p. 67). Julian Jaynes also indicates Tukulti-Ninurta I (a powerful king of the Middle Assyrian Empire) as the origin for Nimrod. [28] Alexander Hislop, in his tract The Two Babylons decided that Nimrod was to be identified with Ninus (also unattested in Mesopotamian king lists), who according to Greek legend was a
Mesopotamian king and husband of
Semiramis , with a whole host of deities throughout the Mediterranean world, and with the Persian Zoroaster . The identification with Ninus follows that of the Clementine Recognitions; the one with Zoroaster, that of the
Clementine Homilies, both works part of
Clementine literature . [29] There was a historical Assyrian queen
Shammuramat in the 9th century, the wife of Shamshi-Adad V , whom some speculations have identified with Semiramis, while others make her a later namesake of a much earlier Semiramis.

In some versions (as in Flavius Josephus), Nimrod is a man who sets his will against that of God. In others, he proclaims himself a god and is worshipped as such by his subjects, sometimes with his consort Semiramis worshipped as a goddess at his side. (See also Ninus .)
A portent in the stars tells Nimrod and his astrologers of the impending birth of Abraham, who would put an end to
idolatry . Nimrod therefore orders the killing of all newborn babies. However, Abraham's mother escapes into the fields and gives birth secretly. At a young age, Abraham recognizes God and starts worshiping Him. He confronts Nimrod and tells him face-to-face to cease his idolatry, whereupon Nimrod orders him burned at the stake. In some versions, Nimrod has his subjects gather wood for four whole years, so as to burn Abraham in the biggest bonfire the world had ever seen. Yet when the fire is lit, Abraham walks out unscathed.
In some versions, Nimrod then challenges Abraham to battle. When Nimrod appears at the head of enormous armies, Abraham produces an army of gnats which destroys Nimrod's army. Some accounts have a gnat or mosquito enter Nimrod's brain and drive him out of his mind (a divine retribution which Jewish tradition also assigned to the Roman Emperor Titus , destroyer of the Temple in Jerusalem).
In some versions, Nimrod repents and accepts God, offering numerous sacrifices that God rejects (as with
Cain ). Other versions have Nimrod give to Abraham, as a conciliatory gift, the giant slave Eliezer , whom some accounts describe as Nimrod's own son. (The Bible also mentions Eliezer as Abraham's majordomo, though not making any connection between him and Nimrod.)
Still other versions have Nimrod persisting in his rebellion against God, or resuming it. Indeed, Abraham's crucial act of leaving Mesopotamia and settling in Canaan is sometimes interpreted as an escape from Nimrod's revenge. Accounts considered canonical place the building of the Tower many generations before Abraham's birth (as in the Bible, also Jubilees); however in others, it is a later rebellion after Nimrod failed in his confrontation with Abraham. In still other versions, Nimrod does not give up after the Tower fails, but goes on to try storming Heaven in person, in a chariot driven by birds.

KingSango:


I would like to add to this discussion something of importance that would be of use to all of us seeking to understand African tradition.

Regardless of tradition, going all the way back to Kush which was mother of Egypt. The first royal family was our great grandmother, Isis or Aset, and our great father, Osiris or Asar. Incarnations are real. The Irunmole came down from Orun and created the human race. Royalty in Africa, at least the paramount Kings, Chiefs, Queens and Chieftess, descends from the Gods. The royal family of Kush branched out all of Africa. Look at the line of Queen Shebah, she is the first royal house, that is because old Africa was matriarchal ruled. That's correct the women held the monarchy first and that is how come the story of Sango running Oba, the first wife, out of the Palace, exists in Yoruba Mythology. This is the trading places of the patriarchal now occupying the chief ruler seat. You can see this in old African artwork and the way rulers dressed, particularly Kings. The Kings wore dresses as a symbol of rulership because the women rulers Queens who came first wore dresses. Anybody not accepting this fact is anti-woman. There is no place in our universe for a totally male dominated energy. This has gave birth to the perversion now known as Western Civilization which is pushing the elimination of women's rights, duties, honors and gifts down as they give rise to Transgenderism, which are gay males posing as women. Just think the ancient Greeks, enemies of Africa, had Cesar, a man, and his consort, also a man, ruling over the entire empire. The voice of woman was crushed and is still crushed in the Western World including Muslim and Arabic world.

But getting back to our great grand parents. In Yoruba Mythology, Yemaya is Isis and Aset, and Obatala is Osiris and Asar. Therefore Queen Shebah the oldest royal bloodline, from which Oduduwa came from Egypt in about 100 B.C, leaving Kemet/Meroe aka Egypt and taking his kingdom into West Africa. Upon arrival in Ile Ife there is a clash between Oduduwa and an old line of African rulers called Obatala or Ogboni. According to myth Oduduwa joined Obatala or Ogboni and the feud ended. Now what lies in Ile Ife? The staff of Queen Shebah which all royal sons, Kings from Kush, the original royal house, would have in possession to authenticate their Godly right to rule. Therefore the bloodline of Alaafin Adeyemi III, the dynasty of Oyo, goes all the way back to Queen Shebah and the Gods. All royalty are figure heads of the empire or kingdom and are the only ones to occupy the highest authority. But did you know that Queen Shebah, around the 11th century, lived in Nigeria? This is very plausible because being the Queen of all monarchs Queen Shebah would be the ancient ruler of all of Africa. So her living in Nigeria wouldn't be of nothing for her to do. Many rulers have palaces in other places of their empire. Queen Shebah would be the ruler of both East and West Africa, at least if they knew who she was, the ancestors, would have recognized her and honored her in Nigeria. Queen Shebah is Bilikiru Sungbo and her husband was the head of the Ogboni. This is very accurate. Because the head of Ogboni is the living Obatala just like the Alaafin, is the living Sango. The Oboni is much bigger than Yoruba people and includes ancient societies throughout Africa. According to Yoruba myth, Obatala, who is the father of the Orishas or Irunmole, retreated from the world, in other words, became secret, again, Ogboni. Their figure head became the Alaafin, the Elders, and the Obas, chiefs, Ayabas, etc. Now let's wrap this up. Queen Shebah is Yemaya, the great grandmother of all human beings and an African Queen Mother. The head of Ogboni, the Oba of Ogboni, is the great grandfather of all human beings. We can accept this royal lineage or not. But to deny the truth will continue to divide Africa. It will make heads of state who have no royal blood in them think they are the real rulers. No the real rulers are the royal bloodlines of Africa. These are the families the Irunmole choose to incarnate whenever they come into the world. Sometimes they choose others but very rarely. All African royalty are Gods and Goddesses.

Return to your traditions. The traditions didn't fail Africans the Africans failed to follow them. We turned our back on the Irunmole and started practicing other things they were taboo and as such we fell from a mighty place.

This Queen Mother explains it well. How the African royal family started out in the East then moved West to form their own kingdoms. But I'm telling you that the royal family were the Irunmole incarnated long ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96p_-QIMWvY

lawani:
You are the joker because you have brought links to show that Nimrod was a great man known to South Arabians in the past, proving clearly that someone coming from Mecca in the 7th century, a well read Royalty will revere him and would mention his name to people which Oduduwa did. My own link had references, so you can check those references. Many cities were named after Nimrod. The Jews were anti Nimrod but Nimrod was not fighting against the real God but against the bad God who flooded the Earth. You may call him pagan, idolator and etc but he knew God too, the objective God and not the sadist God. Jewish sources report him as bad but the Epic of Sumer speaks glowingly of him. He is also known as Gilgamesh.


So to my own understanding, that was the man mentioned to our ancestors by Oduduwa whom they made Olofin Aye at Ife.

The original character lived 5000 years ago, while his descendant who was renamed Oduduwa lived around 1500 years ago or 7th century AD.

macof:


ok

when you realize Nimrod is nothing but a myth give me a mention please.

lawani:


Even if a myth, it was a myth well known to the man who came from Mecca and was renamed Oduduwa and crowned Olofin Aye in Ife. Josephus knew Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar must have too and etc. So the Meccan who was made Olofin Aye in Ile Ife was also aware of the myth. So he instructed the Yoruba to pass down the name to their descendants.

If someone had come from Europe and mentioned Charlemagne rendering it as Shalemani or so, you would still say it is a myth?

KingSango:


There's no evidence that Oduduwa was from Mecca but plenty suggesting the Yorubas had an East African origin. Which all the royal houses of Africa loved to claim their lineage from Kush, which is the house of Queen Shebah. This is per Dr. Diop. Oyo Royal family which is the bloodline of Oduduwa became Muslim to stop the onslaught of Islam. They only wear Islam as a mask but they really practice ATR. This is well known. Some consider it a contradiction but it isn't. The Africans in West Africa are revolutionary Muslims not Orthodox.

lawani:


Which oral account passed down by our ancestors mentioned Kush or East Africa? Ethiopia and etc?. The Yoruba came from Ile Ife and Ile Ife is the source of all of humanity! Anybody can be made Oba in Ife or any Yoruba city, if Olodumare so directs, that was how a Wadai man and a Meccan became Obas in Yoruba land. It was by the guidance of Olodumare. If today Ifa says a German should be made Oba at Ilesa, that man will be made Oba but it does not mean the Ijesas came from Germany. The Ijesas originated from Ile Ife.

lawani:


Even if a myth, it was a myth well known to the man who came from Mecca and was renamed Oduduwa and crowned Olofin Aye in Ife. Josephus knew Nimrod, Nebuchadnezzar must have too and etc. So the Meccan who was made Olofin Aye in Ile Ife was also aware of the myth. So he instructed the Yoruba to pass down the name to their descendants.

If someone had come from Europe and mentioned Charlemagne rendering it as Shalemani or so, you would still say it is a myth?

KingSango:
I would like to add to this discussion something of importance that would be of use to all of us seeking to understand African tradition.

Regardless of tradition, going all the way back to Kush which was mother of Egypt. The first royal family was our great grandmother, Isis or Aset, and our great father, Osiris or Asar. Incarnations are real. The Irunmole came down from Orun and created the human race. Royalty in Africa, at least the paramount Kings, Chiefs, Queens and Chieftess, descends from the Gods. The royal family of Kush branched out all of Africa. Look at the line of Queen Shebah, she is the first royal house, that is because old Africa was matriarchal ruled. That's correct the women held the monarchy first and that is how come the story of Sango running Oba, the first wife, out of the Palace, exists in Yoruba Mythology. This is the trading places of the patriarchal now occupying the chief ruler seat. You can see this in old African artwork and the way rulers dressed, particularly Kings. The Kings wore dresses as a symbol of rulership because the women rulers Queens who came first wore dresses. Anybody not accepting this fact is anti-woman. There is no place in our universe for a totally male dominated energy. This has gave birth to the perversion now known as Western Civilization which is pushing the elimination of women's rights, duties, honors and gifts down as they give rise to Transgenderism, which are gay males posing as women. Just think the ancient Greeks, enemies of Africa, had Cesar, a man, and his consort, also a man, ruling over the entire empire. The voice of woman was crushed and is still crushed in the Western World including Muslim and Arabic world.

But getting back to our great grand parents. In Yoruba Mythology, Yemaya is Isis and Aset, and Obatala is Osiris and Asar. Therefore Queen Shebah the oldest royal bloodline, from which Oduduwa came from Egypt in about 100 B.C, leaving Kemet/Meroe aka Egypt and taking his kingdom into West Africa. Upon arrival in Ile Ife there is a clash between Oduduwa and an old line of African rulers called Obatala or Ogboni. According to myth Oduduwa joined Obatala or Ogboni and the feud ended. Now what lies in Ile Ife? The staff of Queen Shebah which all royal sons, Kings from Kush, the original royal house, would have in possession to authenticate their Godly right to rule. Therefore the bloodline of Alaafin Adeyemi III, the dynasty of Oyo, goes all the way back to Queen Shebah and the Gods. All royalty are figure heads of the empire or kingdom and are the only ones to occupy the highest authority. But did you know that Queen Shebah, around the 11th century, lived in Nigeria? This is very plausible because being the Queen of all monarchs Queen Shebah would be the ancient ruler of all of Africa. So her living in Nigeria wouldn't be of nothing for her to do. Many rulers have palaces in other places of their empire. Queen Shebah would be the ruler of both East and West Africa, at least if they knew who she was, the ancestors, would have recognized her and honored her in Nigeria. Queen Shebah is Bilikiru Sungbo and her husband was the head of the Ogboni. This is very accurate. Because the head of Ogboni is the living Obatala just like the Alaafin, is the living Sango. The Oboni is much bigger than Yoruba people and includes ancient societies throughout Africa. According to Yoruba myth, Obatala, who is the father of the Orishas or Irunmole, retreated from the world, in other words, became secret, again, Ogboni. Their figure head became the Alaafin, the Elders, and the Obas, chiefs, Ayabas, etc. Now let's wrap this up. Queen Shebah is Yemaya, the great grandmother of all human beings and an African Queen Mother. The head of Ogboni, the Oba of Ogboni, is the great grandfather of all human beings. We can accept this royal lineage or not. But to deny the truth will continue to divide Africa. It will make heads of state who have no royal blood in them think they are the real rulers. No the real rulers are the royal bloodlines of Africa. These are the families the Irunmole choose to incarnate whenever they come into the world. Sometimes they choose others but very rarely. All African royalty are Gods and Goddesses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRkwJS67NBw

Return to your traditions. The traditions didn't fail Africans the Africans failed to follow them. We turned our back on the Irunmole and started practicing other things they were taboo and as such we fell from a mighty place.

This Queen Mother explains it well. How the African royal family started out in the East then moved West to form their own kingdoms. But I'm telling you that the royal family were the Irunmole incarnated long ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96p_-QIMWvY

9jacrip:
KingSango claimed Oduduwa came from Meroe in Sundan.

Lawani (My egbon from Ilesa) claimed Oduduwa came from Mecca.

The way both proponents of these schools of thought argued and continue to argue in defensive of their angles is amazing. I suppose they must have exclusive information on Oduduwa that the Isooro Oduduwa in Ife do not have. And to think the family possesses a lot of Oduduwa's relics and the Oba Isooro Oduduwa walks around with Oduduwa's disk as opposed to Opa Ase that others use - it is a shame they're not privy to these information both these men have.

The same way a friend of mine said to be she knows much more about Obatala than Obalesun the Oloja Iranje Ideta.

Wetin we no go see/hear?

KingSango:


There's virtually no proof that Oduduwa came from Mecca. None. The empire of Oyo itself is over 2000 years old. Its 2015, subtract 2000 years and you arrive at around 0 B.C. At this time Egypt was conquered and Nubia was being pushed further South. There was no African power in the MiddleEast or Mecca at this time. The Asiatics, Persians, Greeks, Romans, etc were in firm control of anything north of Egypt. Unless Oduduwa was Asiatic its hardly unlikely he came from Mecca. Islam was founded in 640 A.D. Some people think that Ile Ife began around 500 B.C but recently a high priest said that the city and civilization goes back 10,000 years before the birth of Christ. This gives proof that Ile Ife was in existence while Egypt thrived and was still African or Nubian ruled. Which the scrolls of Rameses III that lists the different races shows two ethnicity of Africans, one East Africa and the other West. This supports the idea that when Oduduwa left from whereever he left from, arrived at Ile Ife to meet a very sophisticated group of Africans in Ile Ife. Only that Oduduwa was more powerful militarily and politically. I think it has more to do with the fact he was the son of Queen Shebah and born to rule. Oduduwa was an Irunmole incarnate.

As you can see, the closer get to 0 B.C the worst it looks for Africa.

30 BC: Cleopatra commits suicide and Egypt becomes a province of the Roman empire

343 BC: the Persians conquer Egypt again (31st dynasty)
332 BC: Alexander the Great conquers Egypt


100 BCE - "Yemeni tribes of Jurham rule Mecca."[1]
570 CE - Year of the Elephant.
613 CE - "Muhammad begins public preaching in Mecca."[2]et to see any mention of Africans in Mecca anywhere.





Ogboni is old and ancient. There religion is much different than the Ifa that most Yorubas prescribe, who follow the old ways. The Ogboni actually commun with spirits that rule in other dimensions. The Ogboni commune with Earth spirits which is why they specialize in plants or herbs. But there are other elemental spirits, like fire, air and water spirits. The Ogboni are the Obatala the oldest order in Africa. But there are other societies, much more secret, they only pass their title and knowledge via lineage so its impossible to engage them. But Ogboni, they run the police, military and initiate the Kings in Oyo and Dahomey Empires. The Alaafin is Sango who is Omo Obatala just like Heru is the son of Asar. The Alaafin/Heru is the figure head while Ogboni is the actual ruler. Power rests behind the throne. This is the same in the Western World. The President is the figure head while the Freemason/Illuminati are the rulers. The Freemasons rule the police, military and they select the Presidents.

I have a firm grasp on the way the world works. I don't parlay with nonsense and fairy tales.

lawani:
I did not invent anything. The Mecca story, Lamurudu story and Waddai story were passed down and I am not the first Yoruba person to say that Lamurudu is the Nimrod mentioned by Josephus and etc. People have been saying it since the 19th century. It is a known fact that Oduduwa started a new dynast 51 Kings ago in Ile Ife when he was appointed Olofin aye. A new dynasty started in Benin like 40 Kings ago by crowning a descendant of Oduduwa. I believe they did this cos the earlier Ogisos also came from Ife. Owu and Ijebu married Ife princesses.